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Originally Posted By: Wonka
Tarheel,

Can you please give us a bit info on what's going on with W and the OM from your intel? Try to detail as much as you can here. This way we all can support you on the best path forward.


Sure thing- I'll start from the beginning, sorry for the length but I want to be thorough....

W gave me BD 9/25/13. I checked cell phone records a day or two after and saw that first conversation had started in late Aug. During Sept, there were 1200 texts back and forth and a few phone calls. When I confronted her, she said they were friends and most of the texts were just jokes, etc. I also saw a text W had forwarded to her email from him around that same time where he said he enjoyed her company, felt like he didn't know what to say to her etc- confronted her and she claimed it was inappropriate and was planning on forwarding it to her work girlfriend so that she could tell him to back off. She had met him during last summer when she started hanging out with some work friends a lot more often. (She has since left that job, but still in contact with work friend)

The texts seemed to dwindle the next several mos, but the calls continued probably once every 5-7 days, some an hour or two long. She always told me that he had feeling for her, but she didn't know how she felt about him. She did tell me that he had asked her out, but she had declined, but at one point accepted, then declined at the last minute. She continued to say they were just good friends and I had no other evidence to the contrary.

In Jan/Feb, I noticed only 2-3 calls on the cell records, so assumed it was ending. We also seemed to be getting along pretty well around that time, doing family things, etc. In Jan I found 3 cards from OM- 1 for W's bday in Sept signed 'love you' with a $50 spa gift card (proved to me that he had made his feeling known prior to BD), 1 for Sweetest Day talking about 2nd chance for love and then 1 for Christmas signed ILY. Although inappropriate, I had no evidence of W's feeling towards him, so didn't say anything.

In March, W left her computer open and I found the following- email about a soulmate article from W to OM (he replied saying he felt the same), a 'love' playlist to him and then several topless pics. Confronted W with the evidence and she claimed the pics were never sent and that the playlist she had started to create for her and I and that she only sent it to him to make sure it wouldn't show publicly. We had a pretty good talk about their relationship and she relayed that they had gone on a few dates, had 'fooled around', but no type of sexual contact (which she still insists on). Also said she talked to him through skype every few days- she knew calls on the cell records would only hurt me. Shortly after this discussion, I told her I didn't want her staying at the house while she was in a relationship with him and that we weren't friends as long as she was friends with him.

Calls on the cell records have stopped, other than 3 calls to his home number earlier this month. Instead, I know they text each other through fb and probably still skype. When I see cell calls to work friend, then bank statement shows she went out that same night, I *assume* OM went too?

In April, W sent me an email saying that she had made it VERY clear to him that they could only be friends. That weekend, a buddy of mine saw her at a bar with him and others. Said they looked pretty cozy and at one point OM had his hand on her butt. W denied this. W's best friend (I've known for 15 years and is in a different circle than OM)claimed she didn't know how serious things were between them until shortly before that, so I know they were something more than friends.

Fast forward to a few weeks back when I found out that W went with OM (and other friends she claims) to his hometown for a party. She was gone the whole weekend, but said she didn't think it was a big deal. Best friend actually told me who she was with and that she thought I knew about it. Really?? W hasn't been straight with me when I ask her about their R, but I did ask her if they were more than friends when she got back from the weekend and she said 'no, not right now.'

So long story short- I know at one point something was there (Jan-March timeframe), how serious, I don't know (or maybe don't want to admit). As of now, she tells me they are just friends, but I have no way to prove/disprove it. She tells me she's hurting and depressed and trying to find the right decision, but in my eyes, her actions don't seem to match her words. One of W's friends (live out of town) did stop over last week and told me that best friend had told her that W was dating, but I don't know if that meant currently, had been?? I text best friend after that and flat out asked her- she said that was something I needed to ask W.

I think I posted this in Dev's thread, but if W does decide to come back, it's either going to be 'what do I need to do to make it work?', which I don't see her ever doing because I don't get the feeling she thinks she's done anything wrong OR she'll want to try to date me to see if there is there is a future. In that case, I could see how she would have no desire to end OM 'friendship' until she knew if we were going to work out. But how would I feel about dating her while she's *possibly* dating OM (I have no way of knowing the truth).



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Tarheel Offline OP
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And for what it's worth, I've been checking the FB pages of OM and that circle of friends (including former work friend) for quite some time to see if I'd ever find a picture of the two of them or anything to indicate their status, but I've never seen anything. After my blow up and fb message to OM when I knew they were out of town, he has since locked down his fb page. Guess he finally got smart about it.



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Tarheel,

Thanks for the information and sequence of events.

It is patently that W is in an A with the OM. Discussing whether it is EA/PA is just semantics. You heard that from the good friend that W is "dating" someone. Who dates while they're married??!!

You have some decisions to make here. Do you want us to support you in taking the Dev approach or continue waffling?

Dig deep and look within.

Do you:

-like seeing what's happening?
-like the fact that W is "dating" the OM?
-accept this arrangement?

What do you want to do here, Tarheel?


Last edited by Wonka; 07/19/14 07:53 PM.
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TarHeel,

Thanks for the synopsis. It helps spell out your time frame a bit better. Your tag line always left me wondering. As Wonka states, you need to figure out which way to go. It's not easy. In my sitch, it's easier because she is not denying the PA or the A, just the significance of it. It's really tough to do, but it seems to me it's fairly obvious what your W is doing.

She's not making any decisions because she doesn't have to. The fear of losing her keeps you in the sitch right now, I know, because I'm the same way. My W wants to be friends, states that is a prerequisite for R, but won't end her A with OM. She wants it all, and doesn't want to make a decision.

I look at it like this, your W is already making decisions about what she wants to do. You have to figure out what YOU WANT. Make your plan, stick to it, and assess what happens. What's your worst case scenario? If your W leaves, she's already gone. That's how I'm looking at it

I know your in a tough spot. Good luck with your thinking, it's not easy at all.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Tarheel Offline OP
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Wonka/Dev, I do think I need to take a harder stance similar to Dev. Not only for any chance of MR, but also because I'm not going to continue to live in an open marriage.

So W dropped off the kids earlier. We were friendly for a bit, then she went to leave. I told her that we both knew she was dating ('I wouldn't call it that') and that I could no longer live in an open marriage. We talked for a bit and I probably came across as pleading at times but tried to ask for her thoughts. Long story short, she reiterated that ideally we would D, she would get her own place, then we would try dating. I told her that I wouldn't date while she was in contact with OM. She said she had no problem giving up contact with him and had over a few month time frame during the winter. Because we can't afford 2 places, we talked about trying to date now. Again, I told her I wouldn't do that with OM in the picture.

At the end I told her that we should both think about it and she could call me this week to talk about it. She said she'd call me tomorrow.

I agree with others that she's not ready for R just yet, but feels forced. She wants to get a real feel of being on her own, but she simply sees no way of affording that anytime soon. I don't know where to go from here other than to hear her out tomorrow. This won't work if she's not ready, so I worry, but the alternative sounds like waiting another year(?) before she's in a place financially to do what she'd like to.



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Tarheel,

Okay, we would be happy to offer you support and guidance through the no OM boundary. We would love for you to try to stick with this...it'll be the HARDEST thing you've ever done in your life. It can be done.

I told her that we both knew she was dating ('I wouldn't call it that') and that I could no longer live in an open marriage. We talked for a bit and I probably came across as pleading at times but tried to ask for her thoughts.

Why plead? She should be the one that's PLEADING for your mercy. Why ask for her thoughts when W has given you clear signs that she's not giving up the OM?

Long story short, she reiterated that ideally we would D, she would get her own place, then we would try dating.

Damn that shell game again! Don't you see this pattern at all, Tarheel?? I see it coming a mile away! Sheeesh...she's good at this shell game.

I told her that I wouldn't date while she was in contact with OM. She said she had no problem giving up contact with him and had over a few month time frame during the winter.

She's being flippant by making that sort of comment. She's trying to placate you so she can have more time with the OM. Don't you see this at all?!

Wake up...wakey, wakey....Tarheel!!! slapping your head on the upside

At the end I told her that we should both think about it and she could call me this week to talk about it. She said she'd call me tomorrow.


Whaaa? What? What's there to "think about" here? It is freaking obvious, and in fact clearly stated by W, that she has elected to continue her A with the OM. What's there to discuss??

but the alternative sounds like waiting another year(?) before she's in a place financially to do what she'd like to.

ARE you willing to wait another year to watch W keep running to the OM and carry on an active affair with him? What about your self-respect? What about your family?

Is this okay with you?!

Trust me, W is probably cooking up another shell game to pull on you when you guys talk tomorrow. Just keep your EYES WIDE open for that sleight of the hand trick.

What you need to do is clearly state that you will not be in an open marriage with W and that you will not be friends with her as long as she chooses to contact him. Close it strong with this comment, "it is downright disrespectful to me and to our family."

Then GO DARK on W.

Last edited by Wonka; 07/21/14 02:07 AM.
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^^^^Great post


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Tarheel Offline OP
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Wonka, I knew you were going to give me that advice grin It's still a tough pill to swallow though.

When we spoke the other day, I did make it very clear to W that if we decide to 'date', she needed to give up all contact with OM, (which she said she would be- we'll see). I also told her that it was disrespectful to me and to the kids to be contacting him, especially if the kids were with her. Maybe I shouldn't have revealed my cards, but I told her that I was ready to date (whether it was her or someone else) but that my morals don't allow me to date someone else while I'm still legally married to her. Probably wrong of me, but also threw in a dig at the OM not being a real man- getting involved with a married woman with kids. Disrespectful in my eyes.

She questioned what people would think should we get back together. I think that's a big fear of hers- she was always very close with my family since her family is not around here. Told her if we did R, we needed to take one step at a time and not look 10 steps ahead. Maybe I'm doing all the heavy lifting (ok, I am), but one of us has to, right? And as I mentioned before, she will not come back asking 'what can I do to make things right?' because in her mind she has not done anything wrong.

Deep down in my gut I really do think (hope?) that W and I will agree to dating here soon and then I'll have a new set of questions and issues. Maybe that's why I've been hesitant to implement a tougher stance?

As for yesterday, she did not call me. **Mindreading alert**- I did see her on and off FB quite a bit at one point, which made me wonder if she was breaking things off with OM through messenger. Probably not.** She did text me earlier in the day about picking up the kids and seemed to prolong the conversation- asking what we were doing, telling me where she was, etc. She had the kids last night, so didn't have any place to call me in private.
I'd like to give her til tomorrow to call me. That will also give me time to really think about your recommendation Wonka. I know it's what I need to do- stand firm for myself and for the kids, but it's alot easier said than done. I've been fairly dim for the past 6 mos, initiating very few conversations, but I need to make sure I'm 100% prepared to go dark.



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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Well, it seems I am the one to sound negative, but in reading your post, I could not see her encouraging you at all. Even when you pressed her, she would not give a straight answer. To me, that says she doesn't want to return to the M. At the very least, she's not ready. And she's not going to be ready as long as she's involved with OM.

What she said about not wanting to return home due to financial struggle is right. If that's the grounds for going back home, it's doomed before it even has a chance. The only way it will be successful is b/c she "wants" to be with "you" and no other reason (having the family together, or being able to live in her house, etc.) Although those things play a part of what she misses, it has to be "you" she returns to. Nothing else.

I hate to see you start dating her, knowing she's still involved with OM. But you have to do what you think is right.



So Sandi, could it be that it is for him, she just does not want to admit it or actually realize it?

My MC said that even though my WW returned home and said it was for S16 and Finances, that she tells the MC she likes to spend time with me, she enjoys being with me etc.

The MC said I should not ever point out to the WW that its also for me, but I should know that it is, that the ww returned to the home not only for the kids.

I am just asking how can you tell the real reason, as they say believe nothing that you hear.



W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...965#Post2477965
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Originally Posted By: Wonka
Tarheel,

Sandi has some good insights. I would add that you are not W's plan B or her gay boyfriend. Reading Ox's thread just depresses me as he's really acting like his wife's gay best friend. Not good. I hope you have read up a bit on Dev's thread to get some pointers on how to handle the OM in the picture.

You need to be the strong man here. Waffling back and forth isn't going to cut it for W since it isn't an attractive quality in a man.




Wonka,

Why do you believe this? Can you please elaborate on my thread? I am just following what I think will work. My WW claims the OM is just a good friend at this point. there is no physical Affair anymore.

Once he leaves the USA she has committed to focus on us.


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...965#Post2477965
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