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#2470051 07/17/14 11:06 PM
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So this old dog has had to start part two of the story.

First of all I would like to thanks JCread for his Zen Golf story. Gotta go and read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence' again I guess.

Next, I am going to post some resources for feeling better which my counsellor gave me a while ago. I think I'll do this in another new thread as I hope it will be useful to noobs.

Old Dog xx


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Doh! I forgot to post the link to Old dog seeks new trick 1.


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I've requested a name change to Old Dog as odsnt doesn't make much sense.


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Ok Old Dog.

I like that... Old Dog......
Yea... That works...


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Originally Posted By: JCred
Ok Old Dog.

I like that... Old Dog......
Yea... That works...


Cheers JCred

Noow I need to practice that new trick


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog


Noow I need to practice that new trick


Good boy!

wink

My dog has a really, really good trick which is kind of applicable to those of us here...I can put a cookie on his paw and tell him to "wait." He will look at the cookie, and look at me. When I decide that he can have it, I say, "Ok."

That's kind of the situation that we're in. We have the "cookie." It's ours. But we have to wait.

It's not a nice trick, but it takes a lot of patience and control. My dog is really awesome at it. (Good dog!)

So - there's your metaphor for the day!

Last edited by MLP; 07/23/14 10:34 AM.
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:-) nice one MLP. The literal interpretation will be easy for me as I'm turning down all sorts of sweet stuff and losing quite a bit of weight.

Metaphorically? Oh yeah! I can see my cookie in the distance. Got my eyes on the prize.


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Another one..

My dog likes to play "catch me if you can."

She will come up to me with one of her toys in her mouth, look at me, wait for me to get up to try and catch her, then run through her doggie door outside. (Yes, I have a doggie door, sorry) Once outside, she will turn and wait to see if I am following. If I am, she will run around the yard while I chase her. She wants me to chase her but won't let me catch her..... With the toy in her mouth the entire time....

NOW... Guess what happens when I stop chasing and go back in the house? (I call it GAL) laugh

Yep... she waits a bit trying to see what my next move is and then comes back in to look for me if I don't come back in a bit of time..


Now, in her eyes I am chasing her in either case.....
But the reality is that when I stop chasing her she comes to me......

The key is I actually have to convince HER that I may not becoming back before she comes to me. If she even sees a glimpse of me through the door or even a hint that I'm coming back, then she waits me out...

Hmmmmmm.... Interesting...
Maybe I ought to see if there is a "Dog Busting" book...
around somewhere.. grin


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Great jumping snakes! I think you're onto something there JCred.

My flatmates have a dog - and we used to have two when I was growing up - and of course, that's exactly what they do.

Mind you, one of them used to bite the yard brush while I swung it around at head height as well.


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OK update time. My wave cycle has been in a bit of a trough for a couple of weeks, but I'm on the up again now ... which is nice.

I also had a friend stay round for a couple of days and we went out to the pub a couple of times (GAL alert) - I haven't been to a local pub all the time I've been here as my flatmates are AA.

I got my bass guitar fixed and brought the bass amp home so lad #1 can play it and (GAL alert) I've decided to find a guitar teacher so I can learn to play better when I'm away during the week.

Going for a weeks holiday with the family on Saturday and then taking the boys to visit an old friend the week after leaving the wife at home: we have to split our time off to look after the boys.


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I've been pondering whether to post this since Sunday when I came across something my wife wrote down in her book of lists. Her list book is usually just lists of what we need to do or go shopping for: mundane things.

I suppose it's classed as snooping which is generally not a good idea and I feel bad for reading it, but I think most people would anyway: and in the spirit of openess and self examination, I have posted it.

The first must be over a month old as one of them is dated.

Page 1:
  • it's not up to me to address it, that rests with him
  • if he can't, so be it, there's no point in hankering after it
  • he has to be brave enough to face it, direct and open enough to address it, and sane enough to be able to withstand it
  • maybe he needs to rebuild from the ground up first, he's lost a hell of a lot of late
  • his system has stopped working
  • he doesn't have to prove how much he loves me, how much he wants this R, he's done that
  • if he takes the easy exit and reverts to a life of jerking people around, that will be a sorry conclusion
  • I'd really like to hope that by going in for round 2 I've shown him that that's not a viable alternative

[Page 2 dated a month ago]
  • I worked tirelessly for 2 1/2 years to stabilse us, he worked to destabilise us: that part of him did
  • then a bit abit about her lonliness (which made me sad)

It made me sad, guilty and confused about some parts e.g. the destabilising and jerking people around parts: not negating just that I don't understand her point of view ... yet.

This written before I'd been feeling low of late and I was already on the way up again, regaining a healthier PMA, before I found it.

I've been trying stay positive even through the trough - it was just harder - and lately I have been able to do it more easily.

I have been avoiding talking about our relationship or anything in the future, other than logistical stuff like holiday arrangements. I think I should wait for her lead in this as I think it's way too soon for that.

Anyone got any objective insight for me?


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My iPad just reminded me it's the anniversary of our first getting together and also our wedding tomorrow. Thanks iPad I did remember though.

The subject hasn't been mentioned so far. I made a homemade card with a picture of the boys on it when we went to London the other week (she was at her friends for the weekend). No present and no love declared in the card just xx.

We're on holiday, as a family. Getting on OK: PMA in force: just no intimacy.


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I gave her the anniversary card just now and it went well. She hadn't seen the pics of the boys before, so that was a nice surprise.

I didn't have to say anything in the way if an explanation - e.g. It's not just another day or I wanted to mark the occasion. That was a massive relief: as I was ... let's say 'a little nervous' about it beforehand.

Oh, and she touched me last night. Well I say touched. Elbowed me on the arm whilst asleep. Hey I'll take that at the moment :-)

Internet connection not so good here, so short & sweet and not much interaction on other threads I'm afraid.

Good luck everyone.

Old Dog xx


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A day out survived. Mostly fine, but she knows how to push my buttons sometimes.

It will generally be over a small thing. I might get frustrated that something isn't going to plan and she will take the counter argument, then accuse me of hollering. I then say I'm not and the kids have backed me up on this and have even said she's louder at times. (My voice does get slightly louder and higher pitched when frustrated as I'm sure everyone's does.) Then she's says 'I'm not arguing with you'. And this is one of the things that she threw at me on Bomb day: inappropriate anger. I admit I can fly off the handle (very rarely), but this sort of thing isn't inappropriate, it's just expressing frustration and it will pass. Unless of course someone steps in and starts stirring.

I have to say it doesn't happen often and I don't fall for it as much now, but I still got caught today.


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So, halfway through the family holiday and feeling rather alone. I'm not even getting any replies on here. The kids aren't up yet and W is sunbathing. It's hard trying to keep a PMA going for the whole time. Just had to shut myself in the bathroom with a thick towel. It's at times like these you wonder how you can do this, but there is no option. I just have to keep on.

I say 'you wonder', but it's only your programmed brain feeding you stupid lies, half truths, doubts and invalid preconceptions. I wish they'd go away. If only I could talk to someone I trust, like my W. Oh yeah, can't do that.

I know we could work it out. I know I can be a better husband. I just need a little help on the journey.

Right enough of that. I'm off to the shop. Can't speak a word of the lingo, it's point and grunt time :-)

Old Dog xx


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Maybe smile point and grunt! grin
Hand signals are good, we get alot of non English people here at times, we manage.

Being sad is ok, feelings are ok. They do pass, and things get bettera.


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Yes it's been quiet on the old boards... A lot of the people have their own stuff to deal with, while the vets are overwhelmed with requests. But it still feels lonely.

I was reading your wife's list; it seems obscure but it does sound like she wants to try to make this work and is thinking hard about the relationship. Sorry I don't have time to review your whole situation, but did you get marriage counselling (I know there's an abbreviation for that, but I hate them and don't see the point!!)

I mean, if you're going to spend any time thinking about the relationship, those are clues that I'd try to decipher...

Hang in there. Also; with the heat, have you been sleeping well? We're not well equipped to deal with heatwaves over here, and lack of sleep, over a 2-week period will affect your mood. Sometimes, being conscious of the physiological factors contributing to low PMA can make you feel better; it's just your body, not your situation you know?


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Hi Old Dog.
Sorry to hear about your latest battle. Come on, keep plugging along.. " I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" laugh


Quote:
A day out survived. Mostly fine, but she knows how to push my buttons sometimes.


What specifically are your buttons?

Quote:
It will generally be over a small thing. I might get frustrated that something isn't going to plan and she will take the counter argument, then accuse me of hollering. I then say I'm not and the kids have backed me up on this and have even said she's louder at times. (My voice does get slightly louder and higher pitched when frustrated as I'm sure everyone's does.) Then she's says 'I'm not arguing with you'. And this is one of the things that she threw at me on Bomb day: inappropriate anger. I admit I can fly off the handle (very rarely), but this sort of thing isn't inappropriate, it's just expressing frustration and it will pass. Unless of course someone steps in and starts stirring.



Sometimes the simple answer is the best answer.. Looks like what you have been doing isn't working too well. How about let's try something different...


Michelle says in DR to ask yourself this... "What can I do differently in this situation to surprise my spouse?"

My idea would be something like...

W: You're hollering (obviously to her you ARE hollering even though you only call it your voice getting slightly louder and higher pitched)

M: I'm sorry honey, there I go again with that inappropriate anger that you keep telling me about. Thanks for pointing that out to me. (then lower your voice and lower the pitch and change the subject.)(especially if it is over something you call a small thing. Michelle says to "Pick your battles wisely"

That is what I think would surprise her.

If you say she takes the counter argument, then it seems to me that it would be more productive for YOU to take the same side of the argument she is on, then if she wants to counter she would have to say that your aren't hollering, wouldn't she?

Food for thought... Do you want to be right or do you want to move forward?


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Originally Posted By: Ggrass
Maybe smile point and grunt! grin
Hand signals are good, we get alot of non English people here at times, we manage.

Being sad is ok, feelings are ok. They do pass, and things get bettera.


:-) yes I always smile. A Spanish lady in the supermarket queue turned to me and fired off a long string of words which I took to mean 'I forgot something, I'll be back in a minute'. I smiled and nodded and said no worries when she came back.

Feelings eh? So that's what they are. They're the things I'm supposed to be more in touch with. I do hope they get bettera ;-)

Thanks for visiting GG


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Got to go to the super again for washing liquid as son #2 has spilt his ice pop thingamajig all over his bed clothes. I'll be back.


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It's ok for us to support one another, even just comment on each other thread.

I started a new thread, my first was as screwed as I was. In my case i feel ads made me stuck worse, and it took me a while to work out I could actually give them up.

My first thread is filled with me, waffling and latching on to things. I let a couple of friends insist I should date. I should be out there.

I realy was needy and desperate and soooooo hurt and ugly. It was a train wreck.


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Originally Posted By: Mat
Yes it's been quiet on the old boards... A lot of the people have their own stuff to deal with, while the vets are overwhelmed with requests. But it still feels lonely.

We need more vets. It's up to us to sort ourselves out and lend an ear or 4x2 :-) In my case, when I'm away during the week at work I can talk to my flatmates and there's also work, but I don't have that support here.

Originally Posted By: Mat
I was reading your wife's list; it seems obscure but it does sound like she wants to try to make this work and is thinking hard about the relationship. Sorry I don't have time to review your whole situation, but did you get marriage counselling (I know there's an abbreviation for that, but I hate them and don't see the point!!)

I really hope so. The first page I'm sure is to do with this holiday. I am here now, so I have managed to kick the passive aggressive tendency and want to work on this. The rest I'm not sure about and so must have no expectations. The marriage counselling was a few years ago and it didn't really do any good as I didn't know what to did with the things I learnt. It wasn't SBT. I am of a similar mind concerning abbreviations - I also write and punctuate text messages in full :-)

Originally Posted By: Mat
I mean, if you're going to spend any time thinking about the relationship, those are clues that I'd try to decipher...

Hang in there. Also; with the heat, have you been sleeping well? We're not well equipped to deal with heatwaves over here, and lack of sleep, over a 2-week period will affect your mood. Sometimes, being conscious of the physiological factors contributing to low PMA can make you feel better; it's just your body, not your situation you know?

Sleep is not too bad considering. Certainly better than in the first few weeks. Plenty to think about though and mull over again and again which probably isn't a good thing. More detaching needed I think. 25yearsmlc posted a great post on claire7's thread which I copied. I need to retread that along with sandi2's rules again.

Thanks for turning up. It is good to talk.

Old Dog xx


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OD -

I'm definitely not a vet, but understand the need for support. Hang in there. I'll try to catch up with your thread later today.

I find I spend too much time stuck in my own head. Sometimes it's really helpful to see what other people are doing or have done to say, "Ah! That sounds like it would work for me!"

I've got to get to Yoga now....I've let too many negative thoughts creep into my head this morning. My therapist yesterday told me that I need to stop throwing stuff into the kitchen sink and worrying about everything. "I know you want things to change," she said "But nothing YOU do will really change things with him. Just keep working on yourself. This just takes time to evolve." And when you think of how long evolution takes....Ay yi yi....Discouraging.

Anyway - hang in there...

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Ah - now I've read that you're in Spain (or perhaps one of the lovely islands?). Anyway, enjoy. Have some tortilla and empanadas for the rest of us. My family went on holiday together a few weeks ago, and it was odd. Not bad, just odd.

So....you're GAL, which is good. The negative thoughts I think are pretty normal, although it's good to chase those away with some thoughts of gratitude. How are the 180s?

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Thanks for the support MLP. We are in Spain: a couple of days left now.

We went to Barcelona yesterday and visited La Sagrada Familia. What an in incredible building! Translated, it means 'the sacred family' of course and there were about a dozen posters hanging around the edges with one liners declaring how important the family is, how children need a family, family love, family support etc. Only two were religion/prayer based. I wonder if she noticed them: I just wanted to point at them all the time.

A lovely day out. Almost like a real family. No buttons were pushed despite it being a very long and tiring day in the end.


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My biggest 180 is not succumbing to passive aggressive traits. I have to watch carefully to make sure. I decided in week 2 that this behaviour is now obsolete. I'm doing quite well I think/hope.

Next stop, ordinary passivity/dependency gets the same treatment. Not wanted any more. Pro-activity, here I come ... in a little while (joke alert - I've already started).


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Sorry to burst your bubble old dog, but it takes a min of 3 weeks to start a habit and longer to cement it.

If you don't believe it when you head back home, move your landline telephone to somewhere different. See how many times you auto head to the wrong place, this is habit that you have no attachment to. Try one like smoking or eating?

Where there is an emotional pay out and that's why it takes years with back slides.


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GG. I hear you re breaking habits. It's been 9 weeks now sine the bomb and 7 since I decided to try not to succumb to passive aggressiveness. I'm under no illusion that I have broken it completely though. But I am aware of how I have acted I the past and am trying my best not to repeat it.

Incidently, I have stopped eating as much and cut out all snacks. Only one small ice cream whilst on holiday last week. And I thought I didn't have any will power.

Old Dog xx


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Since bd, I needed to learn to eat again.

This last weekend just remembering to eat more than once per day was a break thru.
It will be harder to break habits in your r. The op is invested in how things played out, and you trying to change stuff will mess with their script.

While m h thought I was buyin his script and fibs, he was ok to blow sand in your face. Once I stood up and sort of said no more grow up, he's $hiting his pants.

He can see $ disappearing along with his script. His script was I was awful and was going to make his single life terrible by creating mischief and drama.

So far compared to his w1 far far less., drama free area me!
Even less with him nc, life is quiet and relaxed. H was a complete stress head control freak.


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Were back from holiday. Not too bad a time, I wish I'd gone with my wife rather than a 'room mate' though - and with that elephant in the room, there wasn't as much space as there should have been.

Just before we left to go on holiday, I noticed an envelope addressed to both of us on the kitchen table. I'm sure it's an anniversary card from the wife's parents, but she hasn't opened it and neither have I.

My wife texted a lot during the holiday. I didn't ask, but the youngest noticed. She said she was texting her mum as her parents have contributed financially towards the holiday which is fair enough, but surely not that amount of texts. To and fro, keeping her phone close by.

I'm sure there isn't anyone else in the frame which makes me think that maybe she has now told her mum about her decision to split by text.

Mind reading I know, but it's playing on my mind. It's so hard to detach when you're living in the same space. I copied out 25yearsmlc's post about detachment and have edited it for my situation and I'll do the same with sandi2's rules too.


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Welcome back. Have watched the crazy texting, too. Don't let it make you crazy, but do put boundaries around it.

You're doing great. Hang in there.

One thing I have to keep reminding myself is that this process seems to move in geologic time. When people experience trauma, their brain actually slows time down so they can record more information. This is a curse to the LBS, in many ways. Time goes by even more slowly. And while it feels to me like I'm stuck, in many ways things have been changing for both of us.

Anyway-welcome back.

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Thanks MLP. I feel I'm doing rubbish though. I feel as though I'm a rank amateur ans I just can't get the hang of this detachment lark.

I've always got that pain in the solar plexus and it isn't long before my mind starts wandering again.

I did listen to my mindfullness podcast* again today as I was on my own visiting my mother and that helps. It actually says similar things to DB in that only you are in control of your own happiness etc.

* Oli Doyle - A little peace and quiet


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I've taken the boys away for a few days visiting a friend so my wife can have the week all to herself - well apart from going to work.

When we get back home on Friday, she'll be out at a work function and then be off again early Saturday so I won't see her except very briefly as I'll then have to leave for work before she's back.

Then next weekend, she's taking the boys to see more friends. I can't go that weekend which she knew, but she had no qualms booking it for them all and then 'confessing' what she's done.

She's detaching as well it seems. Sometimes I feel like its a test.


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She said on bomb day that she'd would be up for 'an unconventional arrangement': one where we stay together as a 'family' but not as a couple.

I don't know how she thinks this is working out, I can't ask but I can tell you that I am not happy with this as I want a proper relationship. I miss my wife. I miss all the little things that we no longer do. I don't want to be a room mate but for the moment I guess I have to live with it, work on myself, try to be the best I can be, get a life for each place I live in (home and work) and detach.

When I'm away from home it's easier, but at home I'm never quite sure I'm doing the right thing. I try to keep busy, maintain a positive attitude (180), be polite, kind and thoughtful but not engaging and be supportive with regard to the boys.


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Old dog.

She wants to eat cake, plain and simple.


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It does seem like she's getting everything she wants.

She phoned up today at lunchtime whilst I was out at the pub with a couple of old friends. I told her nothing, just 'yeah, everything's fine', would you like to speak to the kids? I don't know what they said, I just went back to my friends and then we all had some food.

I just read the following by 25yearsmlc (I think) on another thread.

These "rules" state they are NOT rules but merely guidelines. These are things she (sandi) threw together one day, when she found herself repeating the same mantras and advice to people. They are more like bullet points based on MWD's books, not "rules" by any stretch.

They do NOT apply to all situations (which she states in there, up front) and they evolve too. If you are a person who neglected your spouse and chidden so YOU could work at the job you love, then yet more neglect and more "Not pursuing" is NOT the best course for you, right? In that scenario, pursuing is probably THE PATH to her heart...


I have been neglectful, but I'm not sure of my best course. Your own situation always seems more convoluted as you're right in the middle of it. A case of can't see the wood for the trees perhaps.


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Old Dog -

Keep in mind that 180s are really important. And they make a lot of sense, right? If the way that you had done things before wasn't working, then do it differently. And the change doesn't have to be big...just different. Keep track of the changes. Some will work. Some will not. Keep doing the ones that work. Ditch the ones that don't. 180s are really relationship tools that can be used in ANY relationship that you have. Spouse, kids, work....Change your perspective!

Getting a life is for you. Counseling is for you. Making YOU better in this process is important and good.

Detaching is for you, too...but it's really for the spouse in crisis. They need to do this all by themselves.

Hang in there....I know your situation is hard.

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Thank you MLP. Thank you.

I have such a bad script in fear of failure, coupled with inertia and procrastination that it really feels like a huge undertaking.

What I need to do is the small things: baby steps.

I understand GAL and counselling is for me and I am doing much better in this respect.

Even detaching isn't so bad, but doing 180s on emotional, relational stuff when she specifically says she doesn't want this is a problem for me.

I have copied John Gray's list of '101 ways to score points with a woman' from Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. I'll see what I can do with that.

Man it's time I was able to function properly. I'm 54 for crying out loud.


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Your not that old, people can and do change.


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Oh, fear of failure. Boy, oh boy, do I get THAT. I come from a family of overachievers, and it's terrifying to think that I've failed at marriage. Feels like a failure of life to me.

Stop. Deep breath. Because - at least in my situation - the only thing that I didn't do for my husband to make him happy was let him have more partners before he met me. So....that's got nothing to do with me. Of course, it has EVERYTHING to do with me, since we promised each other honesty and fidelity and all of those lovely things that we promise the person that we love. But - I didn't break the promise, and he knows right and well that he did, and he's trying to figure out how to sleep in the bed that he's made. Holy cats, it's not working. (Shock of shocks.)

Some days are good. (Today I'm feeling jolly good, actually. Or, I should say RIGHT NOW I'm feeling good.) Some days are bad. (I spend a very good chunk of yesterday crying. In public. Without remorse.)

Doing emotional things that she doesn't want...Well....Okay. I would argue that she doesn't really know what she wants. She THINKS she knows what she wants, but the fixes that she's coming up with aren't working (and aren't likely to work). You doing relational 180s are kind of for her, but they're also kind of for you. Have your children ever told you that they don't like something before they've even tried it? This is sort of like that. Looking at things from a new perspective is scary and weird, and we don't like things that are scary or weird, but it can also be exhilarating and refreshing and BETTER. Don't do the 180s for her. Do them for you. You may find you're learning something about yourself, and that could be terrific.

I hope you're enjoying a lovely day so far!

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Hey "Old" Dog, stop feeling so old! 54 is not that old, (hey I'm 52, and I'm feeling like I with my dropping some weight, that life is just starting for me.) What's going to make you feel younger and more alive today?

Keep working on you. Best wishes.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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I love you all.


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Thank you for the age related pick me ups. I am a youthful looking 54 and the wife has always told me that. I can't quite believe I am that age. My Mum, who is 84, always tells me she doesn't feel her age and is frustrated she can't get into the garden and do some weeding anymore.

One of my 180s was to ditch my glass half empty attitude that my wife complained about and look at it as half full. I'm not doing too badly with that (British reserve alert - North Americans please tranlate as doing quite well), but I have noticed that a lot of us post on here with problems or issues that haven't gone so well and are seeking support - and that's perfectly OK, it why this forum is here.

So I would like to report that this week, despite a few instances, I have enjoyed myself taking the kids away, giving her time out (which she also complained about having none of) and catching up with an old friend. I even bumped into another old friend midweek which was completely unexpected - he was holidaying in the same area and I saw him on Facebook and arranged a quick meet up.

The next week I will hardly see my wife at all. She'll be out most of this evening on a work drinks outing, then rises early to go on another outing with work people and won't be back until I've left for my week away at work. Next weekend she's taking the kids away for the weekend. You have an extra large slice of that cake my dear.

After that I'll be back for two weeks doing jury service. This will be the most prolonged period at home for two and a half years. I really do have to get a job near home.


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Well then if you want a job nearer homed, it's just a numbers game, enough numbers and you will get some thing.


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Just got home. W has already gone out for the evening and there's a new shoe box in the kitchen - empty of course. And a new iPhone. She can't stop herself.

But to make up for that, I ordered some of that Mont Blanc Legend aftershave that some have recommended on here and that was sitting here waiting for me as well. I've never worn any aftershave ever before let alone bought some, so this is a new experience for me.

Oh man alive it smells. Do women really like this sort if stuff?


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Oh ******* **** I think I need to swear - or at least take a deep breath.

W has been looking at the Daily Telegraph dating site. The iPad just told me. She was looking at football initially, then it shows 6 pages of results.

Don't snoop. Don't snoop. Don't snoop. x100

It's probably nothing, but the mere fact that she looked ... :-(

Last edited by Old Dog; 08/08/14 05:31 PM.

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I'm sorry, I know a lot of people are in a much worse situation but ... well you all know.

Have to hold it together for the kids tonight then.

Old Dog xx


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Originally Posted By: Ggrass
Well then if you want a job nearer homed, it's just a numbers game, enough numbers and you will get some thing.


Yup, gotta whip that CV (resume) into line. I did have an interview a couple of months ago. I reckon I do interviews quite well, it's my skills that let me down. And all these young whipper-snappers straight out of university with degrees coming out of their ears and pay demands half of my needs don't help.

Oops. The glass emptied too far there. I have so much experience, I am so loyal and conscientious, who wouldn't want a model worker such as I?


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Bah! Can't sleep. I'm lying there, my mind racing and tears running down my face trying to be quiet.

My wife seems to be withdrawing further from me. She didn't mind being seen getting undressed before but now she turns the light off first and then gets into bed. She turns away from me keeping to the far side of the bed in case we touch (gasp, horror) by accident. If I offer a 'goodnight' it's returned but begrudgingly it seems. Making sure no encouragement is offered even by mistake.

When she came home from the works drinks outing this evening, I tried a 180 saying 'you look nice'. But just at that precise moment, it was partly drowned out by S12 who was keen to give her the present we bought for her whilst we were away last week. That was sweet of him, but hold on for two seconds please. So now I don't know if she heard me and I remembered you're not supposed to repeat yourself.

All trvial stuff. She's still texting more than usual: I don't know who with but all this is what's keeping me awake. This and the terrifying thought that she might be open for an EA or even a PA.


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Some other differnces: she's growing her hair longer than 'normal', buying clothes and shoes at a faster rate and seems to be GALing. Oh, and she also bought a new iPhone which I'm a little jealous of as it looks like I'll spending my iPhone savings money on DB coaching.

Someone stop me rambling on please.

Last edited by Old Dog; 08/08/14 11:33 PM.

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Numbers, how many jobs have you Applied for?

Focus on what you want! Move in that direction.

Tick off that list of things you think you can efficiently change the dynamic.


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Just the one so far GG. Before all this happened. I didn't feel safe enough to look for more afterwards I felt I needed a bit more stability first.

What do I want? I want to overcome my fear of failure. I will ask my counsellor to help with this next week as I won't be able to focus on my own in case I fail at it.

I will try some of the '101 ways to score points with a woman' from Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Going dark and minimal interaction even though I'm being super busy, cheerful and more engaging with the kids just seems to be playing into her let's stay friends scenario.


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What a terrible day. I feel so alone, frightened, exhausted, useless, worthless and everything else that goes with the territory.

W is doing better at detaching than I am it seems. She's off again this weekend and next weekend (with the kids) and the one after that as well I think though she hasn't sprung that on me yet. I really am a LBS.

People will no doubt say hang on in there. Well there is no other option if you're alive - I'm not considering the dead option. After 10 weeks it feels like week one again. Where's my PMA? Why am I reverting to this?

I hope I can sleep tonight. Tomorrow is a new day. Professional help needed. Oh and a backbone.


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(Not so) Old Dog, I'm sorry that you are having a rough day. Yes, "hang in there". Remember, every separated spouse believes the other is having the time of their lives without us. It's never true, there must be some depression going on with the choices they are making. But the mask will always be up around us. Keep the faith!


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
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Except for those that stay alone we come to the point where it's not fake anymore as we have not made those choices that cause shame and guilty feeling.

We tend to work on our selves and we waken up a bit.


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It's tomorrow and I feel more able to cope: this stuff must be cyclical.

I posted a while ago something I found that my wife had journaled "you can fill you life with folk, Hollywood movies and meals out - but at the end if the day you're left with loneliness". It was 6 weeks ago though and I don't think she's quite in the same place but maybe it is a mask. There are two new DVD boxes lying around at the moment as evidence.

If you're reading this W, it's never too late. Talk to me. I love you with all my heart and will do my utmost to be a better husband to you if you let me.

Also, if you are reading this I would like to apologise to you for not 'listening' to you when you said how hard it is and how tired you are looking after the kids alone during the week when I'm at work. You documented your day, explaining how full it was, but I didn't 'listen'. In fact every time I came home I used to wonder what you did all week as the house is always in a mess. I never complained about it but instead used to get busy trying to fix things. I'm sorry I didn't 'listen'.


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Hi Old Dog, just want to echo what others were saying about your W seeming like she is doing great going about her life. As you know I am struggling with that too, wondering if the S is out having a great time while I am sad and suffering.

But there is a good chance that the WAS is keeping busy running from feeling sad, lonely, depressed, guilty, confused. I know my H thinks I look busy and happy. About 50% of the time I am, but I do my best to hide that other side! I know they do too. I know he feels horrible, and all his dating, partying and other activities are just attempts to drown those bad feelings. Maybe it will work...?

Glad you are feeling more able to cope today. Me too. Good luck!
Hugs, Lisa B


Me: 34 H: 30
M: 4 years
BD: 6/15/14
He moved out 6/30/14
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Thanks for that Lisa, it really helps. I'm glad you are having a better day today too. Sometimes reading about so much misery is a bit of a downer. I'd like to help more but I feel such an amateur. At least I can do positive reinforcement from time to time.

I wish my wife would just change her mind. We have followed the classic WAW syndrome to the letter without realising, if only she would read up on it, she might recognise our situation is not so bad. On bomb day she said it was really hard for her to see me so upset as she had the power to change it, but couldn't as it wouldn't be right. Something like that anyway.

I am absolutely hopeless at remembering what people said. She can reel off what I'd said 10 years ago about something, but I struggle after 10 minutes. It's not that I'm not interested or don't care. It would certainly help me in this situation where If I could remember everything she said about why she is doing this. Obviously I'm not clueless, but the exact words would be nice.

No matter, I will continue my own journey of enlightenment. I have started reading 'feel the fear and do it anyway' I hope* know this will help me in my quest to be a better person all round.

* FTFADIA says use 'know' instead of 'hope' :-)

(Not so) Old Dog xx

Last edited by Old Dog; 08/10/14 09:24 PM. Reason: Forgot my sig

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You seem like a smart dog to me! smile We just have to keep on moving ahead one day at a time. One hour at a time... It will get better I think. I hope. I know!

Maybe you are lucky you can't recall every word she said, I wish I couldn't remember the hateful and horrible things my H said as we were splitting. What an A@@HOLE he was. Hence my realization in the past day about how it would be really hard to forgive and reconcile.

Have a good, strong day!
Hugs, Lisa


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Heh old dog. I'm the same as u. I can barely remember 10 minutes ago yet my WAW forgets nothing. Hang in there bud. I'm thinking of you!


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After a dreadful night/day on Friday/Saturday I'm beginning to feel more with it again. This may have something to do with physical separation from my wife as I'm back at work and living away. It's obviously easier to detach if you are physically apart.

I've got my PMA hat on today. I called in on a Yoga/meditation practice on the way to work just now on the way to work. At first glance I don't think I can make the classes, but I know there's another one near the flat starting in September I can sign up for.

I will also call a guitar teacher I found so I can get back into playing again.

I've got my counselling session on Thursday.

I finished Men are from Mars, women are from Venus and write a 'love letter' to my wife - you don't send it, it's just for you.

I've started reading Feel the fear and do it anyway but I've paused that got a while until I've re-read Divorce Remedy - it's so full of hope it make you joyous.
And I'm going to book three phone sessions with the DB coaches.

Old Dog xx


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
And I'm going to book three phone sessions with the DB coaches.


Booked

Also enquired about some Yoga classes starting soon nearby.

Old Dog xx


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What do you do if your wife is also detaching and going dark on you? Communication between us at the moment is pretty minimal, and what there is seems to be short and to the point.

Years ago she did the first year of a part time counselling course and she's also going to see a counsellor at the moment, so she knows a bit about this stuff.

She doesn't seem to want to tell me anything. She's taking the kids away this weekend to visit friends (I can't go) but I had to ask: when are you going? When are you coming back? It's abroad, so I left her my prepaid debit card, checked the balance, emailed her the number, wished them a good time, said say hello to our friends and all I gon in return is 'thank you'.

Now I've not been very forthcoming in the last couple of months months, but that was me attempting to DB. Instead of piquing her curiosity, she's doing the same to me.


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Hi (Not So) Old Dog,

Relax. Yes my W "mirrored" my behavior also. As soon as I went dark, she stopped texting me and calling me also. It is weird isn't it? But trust that something is happening, just not as fast as we would like. Keep at it, and keep working on you.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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I'm glad you've booked the DB sessions. Those should be helpful. And I think yoga is a miracle. It truly kept me going through some of the darkest days.

No advice re: the mirroring. Hopefully the DB coaches will help!

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Quote:
After a dreadful night/day on Friday/Saturday I'm beginning to feel more with it again. This may have something to do with physical separation from my wife as I'm back at work and living away. It's obviously easier to detach if you are physically apart.


I feel the same way. When I don't see my H, I have an initial "sad" period but then get on with living and do all right, for the most part.

When we communicate or see each other in person, I get discombobulated and depressed for a couple of days after. Sometimes takes a week to get back on track.

And 54 isn't old!


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01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
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09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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I wish DB coach would get in touch now, come on I've paid up. Call me. Oops! Impatience showing through. But seriously, it would be really good if I can speak to one this weekend as W & kids are away and I've got the next 2 weeks at home with them.

And the yoga teacher can call as well ... please.

Originally Posted By: Nitty
I feel the same way. When I don't see my H, I have an initial "sad" period but then get on with living and do all right, for the most part.

When we communicate or see each other in person, I get discombobulated and depressed for a couple of days after. Sometimes takes a week to get back on track.

And 54 isn't old!


Maybe you've hit on something for me there Nitty. I work away during the week so every time I leave for work I get the separation thing all over again.

Whenever I get an email/text/call from her now - rare these days - my heart jumps. What is she going to say now. And how will my mind interpret that and run with it.

And no, you're right everybody 54 is definately NOT old. But it is a long time to stay emotionally immature.


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Hey Old Dog! As you know I was questioning a similar thing. When I would be distant and "neighborly" my H would become short and cold with me.

On the one hand it may be that something is going on below the surface that we can't see.

On the other hand I don't know if it was working for me so now I am trying something a bit different. Not pursuing but being my normal friendly self when he contacts me. Sounds like you are doing that already but she is not responding in kind.

I'm sure your coach will have good advice for you. Please share when you get it! smile

Hugs, Lisa B


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Hi Lisa.

I guess we should stop doing things that don't work, try something else and see what happens.

I will definately be bring it up with my coach when I speak to them. I'm going to be at home for two weeks and need reassurance about how to handle it.

I will of course report back.

Sprightly Old Dog xx (just been to see my counsellor)

Last edited by Old Dog; 08/14/14 08:14 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
What do you do if your wife is also detaching and going dark on you? Communication between us at the moment is pretty minimal, and what there is seems to be short and to the point.

Years ago she did the first year of a part time counselling course and she's also going to see a counsellor at the moment, so she knows a bit about this stuff.

She doesn't seem to want to tell me anything. She's taking the kids away this weekend to visit friends (I can't go) but I had to ask: when are you going? When are you coming back? It's abroad, so I left her my prepaid debit card, checked the balance, emailed her the number, wished them a good time, said say hello to our friends and all I gon in return is 'thank you'.

Now I've not been very forthcoming in the last couple of months months, but that was me attempting to DB. Instead of piquing her curiosity, she's doing the same to me.

I am running into the mirroring thing too. At first she gets chatty, then she works her way to mirroring.....my story here. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2469202#Post2469202


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Hi NewB3. I'll check out your story. Thanks for posting.


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Originally Posted By: NewB3
Originally Posted By: Old Dog
What do you do if your wife is also detaching and going dark on you? Communication between us at the moment is pretty minimal, and what there is seems to be short and to the point.

Years ago she did the first year of a part time counselling course and she's also going to see a counsellor at the moment, so she knows a bit about this stuff.

She doesn't seem to want to tell me anything. She's taking the kids away this weekend to visit friends (I can't go) but I had to ask: when are you going? When are you coming back? It's abroad, so I left her my prepaid debit card, checked the balance, emailed her the number, wished them a good time, said say hello to our friends and all I gon in return is 'thank you'.

Now I've not been very forthcoming in the last couple of months months, but that was me attempting to DB. Instead of piquing her curiosity, she's doing the same to me.

I am running into the mirroring thing too. At first she gets chatty, then she works her way to mirroring.....my story here. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2469202#Post2469202


Yeah, I get the whole mirror thing. If I'm nice he's ok, but tried to take control.
Then if I'm uptight he's uptight. H doesn't seem to have independent emotions.


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So, my wife and kids have gone away for a long weekend (I couldn't go). I saw them on the platform of the station while they were waiting for the trian to the airport. My train came in one minute before theirs left. I waved but they didnt see. I wanted to give them a hug :-(

In the past my wife wouldn't have considered going without me, but not only are they going, she booked it knowing I couldn't go. I feel angry and sad about this, but when she told me I simply said 'oh well can't be helped'. But it hurts. My mindfulness podcast came to the rescue on the drive back from the station.


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Hi Old Dog,

I've just been getting caught up on your thread. I really empathize with the sadness of watching your family leave on their holiday. Its odd, before this all started, I would have given anything for a little break away from the kids and right now my heart aches every moment I'm away from them (trying to block the ache for H).

Chin Up. From my dire perspective, your situation seems to have some positives (although I'm sure it doesn't feel that way). Best wishes that you have a nice weekend as well.

Last edited by raliced; 08/15/14 07:57 PM.

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Have you talked to your DB coach yet? Still curious about this mirroring think that several of us have noticed.


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raliced - I know doesn't seem half as bad as many others on here. The effort everyone on puts really does deserve a happy ending. Having said that, we're all locked up in our own worlds and it hurts just as bad.

NewB3 -I haven't talked to a BD coach yet. I just email Virginia to see how to make an appointment.

Warning: Cod psychologist at work.

When you think about it, mirroring perhaps shouldn't be surprising. In real life, your own approach to life is reflected back at you to some extent by people you meet. If you are positive and happy, they usually respond in the same manner - and likewise if you're feeling down.

As we're talking about close relationships and difficult situations it could be more extreme.


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I see this mirroring thing popping up everywhere this week, and of course in my situation as well.

Funny, if it really worked then if we acted all loving and fantastic then they would act the same right? smile

Sorry for your sad day as they left on their vacation, Old Dog. Big hugs, Lisa B


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I posted a while ago that I found a note that my wife had written about her thoughts in late June. I'm not supposed to have seen this, it was in a book she usually uses for lists of stuff to do and was just lying there - not open at this page but the one before.

I worked tirelessly for 2 1/2 years to stabilse us, he worked to destabilise us. That part of him did.

This afternoon I realy got intouch with loneliness. You can fill your life with Hollywood films, with meals out - but at the end of the day you're left with loneliness. La soledad del alma (the solitude of the soul - translated by me/internet).

Almas gemelas (twin souls - translated by me/internet again) torn asunder? I don't know about that anymore. But it does feel like it this evening.


I really do not understand the first sentence. But how can I ask her about any of this if I'm not supposed to have seen it?

I feel so sorrowful and protective of her and want to make it all right. I believe we can do it if we try.

Last edited by Old Dog; 08/15/14 08:21 PM.

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I woke up feeling a bit angry and more than a little sad about her first sentence above.

What does she mean by that? Yes, I recognise all she has done being alone with the boys during the week. It is has been a huge task and it has left her drained. But he worked to destabilise us. That part of him did. How? What did I do or did do?

I left our family home to work 180 miles away, to a place I'd never been to before, on my own, to work with people I did not know, to earn money to provide for us all. Initially I hadn't even considered working away from home but then thought I'd consult her about whether she'd be OK with it and she said yes.

Granted I did not do a good job at staying in touch whilst away during the week, but then she didn't do that much better either.

If ony I could learn to detach properly. I think I chose my forum name correctly as I am finding it really hard to learn this new trick.


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Old Dog, I'm just dropping in so I'll try to catch up on your sitch as I'm able, but your question about your wife's note seems to be really getting to you so I thought I'd throw out a few thoughts.

-- a lot of her meaning depends on the time frame of when she thinks the destabilizing happened. Do you have any sense for how long she's been dissatisfied? Her agreeing to your working away may have been partly because she already was feeling distanced from you.

-- so often men defend their career choices and workaholic tendencies by saying "I was providing for us" without realizing that, while women appreciate the hard work, that work is meaningless if we don't feel connected. We will stop appreciating the work and start resenting it if we feel like it's replacing our importance in your life.

-- I know in my household, when my H is traveling for work there are a lot of after hours events he attends. I didn't reach out to him a ton because I couldn't tell if he was in the middle of something. And if your W was already feeling distant from you she probably wasn't thinking you wanted to be chased down.

These are guesses based on my own situation so take them for what they're worth, but you sound so unhappy that I didn't want to leave you hanging. Best to you...


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Old Dog,
I get this. When you find out that there was real trouble long ago, and there is nothing you can do for that now, you just wish you had known. Maybe had your eyes open a little wider so you could actually see what was going on. If she would have said anything instead of internalizing it.

It is how I feel too. and unfortunately, in my case, those are the things she reaches back to when asked what the problems are. She'll say "well, 12 years ago you worked too much and didn't give the family enough time". Even if positive changes were made since then, right now she looks at or for the negatives of the past only.

I feel like there is nothing that can be done to make up for the past. Focus on the present. (I have a hard time following that though).


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Originally Posted By: Maybell
Old Dog, I'm just dropping in so I'll try to catch up on your sitch as I'm able, but your question about your wife's note seems to be really getting to you so I thought I'd throw out a few thoughts.

-- a lot of her meaning depends on the time frame of when she thinks the destabilizing happened. Do you have any sense for how long she's been dissatisfied? Her agreeing to your working away may have been partly because she already was feeling distanced from you.

And there lies a sorry tale Maybell. She revealed on bomb day that she had been thinking about this before I trotted off to work away from home. It has taken two and half years of gradual deterioration to get to this stage. The last 6 months before bomb day being the worst.

She had said even before this "one day this won't be enough" and now "one day" has arrived. Yet it is only now that I know it is possible to effect change.

My going to counselling before just 'didn't work' I came out the other end and didn't feel any different and couldn't understand why: it was all just talk. Yes, I learned some interesting stuff about myself, but nothing that gave me a clue about what I could do about it. I thought, you went to counselling to sort this sort of stuff out and it didn't.

MrBond has already hauled me over the coals in my first thread for not doing anything about it when I had the chance. He said I'm lazy and selfish.


-- so often men defend their career choices and workaholic tendencies by saying "I was providing for us" without realizing that, while women appreciate the hard work, that work is meaningless if we don't feel connected. We will stop appreciating the work and start resenting it if we feel like it's replacing our importance in your life.

Yes, I read about that recently in Man are from Mars, women are from Venus. Men will think they've scored plenty of points going to work and earning money - surely 30 points there. Nope, just one point on women's scorecard. And I have never been very good at scoring points on the emotional level.

-- I know in my household, when my H is traveling for work there are a lot of after hours events he attends. I didn't reach out to him a ton because I couldn't tell if he was in the middle of something. And if your W was already feeling distant from you she probably wasn't thinking you wanted to be chased down.

I think it was a case of her not wanting to chase any more. She seem to think I was completely happy living away from home 'without a care in the world'. If she was already thinking about 'transitioning' as she calls it, why bother.

These are guesses based on my own situation so take them for what they're worth, but you sound so unhappy that I didn't want to leave you hanging. Best to you...

Pretty good guesses Maybell, you should be a vet. Thank you for posting. It's encouraging when you know someone is reading. I am feeling sad that I could have done something about it if I had known and if new how to do it.


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U-turn I do recognise some of your story.

You are right though. Focus on the present. My mindfulness podcasts does help me at times es like this.


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Sorry Old Dog.
Just a little rambling from this morning - I was talking more about myself.


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No worries u-turn. I have been reading your thread.


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Old dog. I read everything you have written so far....just caught up. I had some rough hours this morning, but coming here to read keeps me focused and gives me hope.

Thanks


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Have you guys seen Shawn Achor's TED talk 'The happy secret to better work' yet?

You need to check it out. It'll help you.


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Yes, I saw it on 25's recommendation. It's awesome! Such a great talk! Oh wait... I think the one she recommends "Fake it until you become it". Another great one!!!


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Originally Posted By: Ss06
Yes, I saw it on 25's recommendation. It's awesome! Such a great talk! Oh wait... I think the one she recommends "Fake it until you become it". Another great one!!!


Absolutely. You see, it's all in the mind.


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Just felt one of those awful heart surging twinges. One of the friends my wife and kids are visiting this weekend posted on facebook "A magical night with lovely people and great music!".

I felt I had to respond somehow, so went with "Wish I could have been with you guys. Glad it was a good night."

Just me and the cat then. Time to get busy.

Old Dog xx


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Cats teach detachment, they live it!

Just me and the dawgs! The cat did grace me with his presence, he installed himself front and centre of the fire.


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Just heard a fab joke. It made me laugh out loud even though I am on my own (even the cat was out).

What is one big advantage of living in Switzerland?

Well the flag is a big plus.

Last edited by Old Dog; 08/17/14 09:51 AM. Reason: typo

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Hey Old Dog and cat,
I loved that Shawn Achor talk. Really nice, and funny! Thanks for sharing.
Hope you are having a good day today.

Your facebook story was interesting. I was out yesterday at a party with some mutual friends of H. Today I saw one of the mutual friends posted on facebook that he had a nice time at the party with "great people". When I saw that the friend said "great people" I wondered if H had seen it and thought of me. Ha! I chuckled when I saw your post later. Sorry it made you feel left out and sad. But don't worry, I'm sure you were missed by all in attendance.

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Old dog,
I'm sorry that posting upset you. I know how hard it is to realize you are missing out-- not just on your spouse, but on friends and family that you have come to feel were your own. I totally get that.

But, I would recommend not commenting on FB posts like the one you saw last night. I think it comes across as... well, the opposite of detaching and GAL.


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Originally Posted By: LisaB
Sorry it made you feel left out and sad. But don't worry, I'm sure you were missed by all in attendance.

Hugs, LisaB


LisaB. Thank you so much. Yes, I think know you're right. They will have missed me.

What a super positive way of looking at it. This is the way we have to look at things. My day turned definitely got a little better.


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Originally Posted By: claire7
Old dog,
I'm sorry that posting upset you. I know how hard it is to realize you are missing out-- not just on your spouse, but on friends and family that you have come to feel were your own. I totally get that.

But, I would recommend not commenting on FB posts like the one you saw last night. I think it comes across as... well, the opposite of detaching and GAL.


It did upset me a bit Claire. I had momentary burst of irritation when I realised that they had been to a place I've long been saying I would like to go to. But I also want to demonstrate a positive attitude, accept that they did it and be happy that they had a good time.

I'm not telling them that I'm at home on my own with the detached cat doing the washing and ironing (mmmm gotta love that GAL action eh?).

I thought a good, or half decent at any rate, move as I'm shifting my try something different goalposts to be more communicative. What do other people think?


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More communicative is definitely good but don't use Facebook as your forum. It tends to come off passive-aggressive.


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Originally Posted By: Maybell
More communicative is definitely good but don't use Facebook as your forum. It tends to come off passive-aggressive.


Uh oh. I'm supposed to be through with that passive aggressive nonsense.


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Not saying it IS, but that it's hard not to look it in troubled relationships.


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What a busy day me and the cat have had.

First of all I had a decent night's sleep at last.

Washed and hung out to dry all the awkward clothes. The ones that always get left behind because they need special care. All but two shirts of these were my wife's.

Ironed and put away all the sheets in the basket. Again these always get left until we absolutely need them.

Took some broken stuff to the dump and picked up a couple of things to eat from the shop.

Raked and mowed the lawn. Attacked a huge bush with shears and loppers and fed half of the branches into my mum's shredders which I'd borrowed. That was great fun and it looks so much better.

Found the papers I need to take with me tomorrow for jury service.

Made a half decent meal for myself.

Relaxed in a nice bath and tipped some of my wife's radox in. Started to read The Five Love Languages whilst soaking.

And now it's time for a tequila sunrise and the cat to go out on the prowl though she never catches anything which I'm glad about really.

It's not been a GAL day, but I'm happy with it.


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First day of jury service. I volunteered to be foreman. My fellow jurors are now calling me George :-) I'm taking my low fat grill in tomorrow.

And I've got a my first DB coaching session tonight. Woohoo!


M: 57 / EW: 52
T: 21, M: 8
S: 18, S: 15
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Old Dog your day yesterday sounded really productive and relaxing as well!

Communicative is great, but yes as the others said it can come across weirdly on FB. But being more "in touch" with people by participating, commenting and liking can be good if you do it all in a nice positive way. It is a good way to keep in touch with people you don't see often but like.

Keep us posted on your DB coaching session! smile

Hugs, LisaB


Me: 34 H: 30
M: 4 years
BD: 6/15/14
He moved out 6/30/14
OW1: EA then PA after BD
Now he's dating multiple OWs
I'm over it and moving on.
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Thanks Lisa. I forgot to say I'm enjoying reading 5LL. Again, I have learned so short a time, in just the first couple of chapters.

I had to skip to the end and do the questionnaire though ;-) First indications are I'm a quality time / physical touch cross breed. I would have guessed physical touch when I saw the chapter headings.


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Dog, I liked that book too. My WAH is quality time/physical touch too. Maybe you can give me some good tips! smile

I am more words of affirmation/physical. I think that book is so interesting as I constantly tell everyone in my life:
- how nice they look today
- what pretty eyes, hair, skin, etc they have
- how funny they are
- how clever they are
- how much I like their hair, shirt, bag, jewelry, etc etc
And I touch everyone a lot!

It makes me feel so good to compliment people, probably because I think they must love it as much as I do. But I even have some friends who tell me to stop telling them they are so beautiful because it is "just too much". I don't get it. haha.

Providing quality time I have a problem with. I think I'm a bad listener sometimes... frown

Got any clue what your W is?

Hugs, Lisa


Me: 34 H: 30
M: 4 years
BD: 6/15/14
He moved out 6/30/14
OW1: EA then PA after BD
Now he's dating multiple OWs
I'm over it and moving on.
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Old Dog - I'm sorry seeing the Facebook post upset you, but like Lisa said, I'm sure you were missed too. I've actually been staying away from Facebook because it feels like it just exposes me to things I'd rather not know about and the temptation to check in is really strong.

That said, I think Facebook can be good for general communication to keep in touch. I think it's good to be brief and cautious, though, because things are so easily misread and misinterpreted, particularly when they're so emotionally loaded. Plus, we lose somewhere upwards of 70 percent of the meaning of what we say when we communicate through text only, so it's really easy for other people to misread and misinterpret.

Lisa - it's interesting that you've made a point that you give the love you'd want to get, but that it can be difficult for some people to accept.

One thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is the tendency to give love in the language we'd most like to receive it in. I think H. and I ran into this trap. I value acts of service a lot, so that's what I did for him, when what he really wanted was physical touch. He never really seemed to appreciate when I'd do things for him, and I don't think he valued the service very much at all.

Conversely. he gave me a lot of physical touch but he wasn't so great about acts of service. Trouble is, I do still quite like physical touch, so he felt he was meeting my needs extensively, didn't realise I needed more, and felt like he wasn't getting anything in return. So we both wound up resentful. I think understanding the ways that we give and receive love is hugely important, and knowing the basics can really help to improve our relationships.


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Just got off the phone with super DB coach Chuck. He asked the same question.

I think I'd have to say my wife is primarily affirmation with physical streaks.

She's always teling the kids she loves them, how handsome they are, how clever they are etc. In fact we had a running joke where I would say 'it's never me anymore' after she had focused on the kids about something or other or given them the last delicious morsel of food. It was just a joke, I was never offended or jealous. But I now say 'had' because it isn't a joke anymore :-(

But hey enough of that empty glass nonsense. Let's fill it with the fun of knowledge and the realisation of the five love languages. I love learning new things.

So, she loved it when I gave her a massage, especially her feet. She loves snogging/kissing. I'm ashamed to say I wasn't very good at it and never understood why it was such a big deal. I did manage some but not consistently because I didn't make enough of an effort. Give me a chance love and I'll 180 that sucker.

My quality time score was quite a surrise for me. It was equal with physical. Words and Acts of service also came out quite strongly because receiving gifts got a lowly one point for me.

I loved spending time with my wife because she was my best friend and because I could talk to her about anything at all.

And I also do loads of acts of service. Well what I think are acts of service - I haven't got to that part of the book yet.

I wish I could get her to read the book.

Lisa. How can you earn to be a better listener? Practice? It's not all about listening though. Sometimes it's just being there. Comfortable in ourselves. Just watching TV or a film or going to the pub together. Doing things together.


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Hi (Not so ) Old Dog, thanks for sharing parts of how you were helped by your coach.

On the topic of learning to be a better listener, I was forced to do this at church where I was a small group leader. Self discovery is everything in small groups, and that is why the table leader has to be skilled at "active" listening - listen to what the other members are saying and either shut up or ask something that helps them to explain more of what they are saying. But the key is you can't be the "teacher" to try and help them learn what you want them to learn. But it works everywhere, it helps at work, with kids, etc. Good luck.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
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Just picked up my bedtime book: 5LL and read 'by quality time I don't mean sitting on the couch watching TV together'.

Shows you how much I know then. NOOB!

I'll see if I can share dome more tomorrow. One thing I'll impart now is. 'Imagine your wife is your sister (in my case)'. You love your sister in a lovingly and detached way.

The 'I like this' button is duely pressed.

Not so Old Dog xx

Last edited by Old Dog; 08/18/14 10:49 PM. Reason: Forgot sig

M: 57 / EW: 52
T: 21, M: 8
S: 18, S: 15
Bomb: 1 Jun 14
EA Aug 2014 I think
PA Feb 2015 possibly sooner
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