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#2470048 07/17/14 10:54 PM
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Hi All,

My prior thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2468975&page=1

I have not seen the subject of an MLC W who sees not just one OM, but multiple other men. She is going out with other men most nights, and during this time she has gone through a "slutty period" (her words).

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it is easier to come out of a MLC with a single man or when seeing multiple men? She has seen other men since this past January so going on 7 months.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
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Hi Wet, welcome to our little neck of hell...not really. It gets better. Really.

I'm sorry you are here, but you will find a lot of support.

I'm sure Cadet will be along soon with your homework. If you want to get started, take a look at the top threads...namely the one "Resources in One Thread."

I think the Going Dark thread is the first homework assignment.

As far as hedging bets on how or when your W will "snap" outta it...I'm sorry but there's really no rhyme or reason. You will learn that they follow similar scripts when they drag us along this journey, but there just aren't any indicators that help give a prognosis.

Just know that she would have behaved this way no matter had you been married to her or not. You coulda been the world's most amazing husband and she would still feel she "needs" to explore other options.

She is a teenager right now. Don't spend too much time reading into what she does or doesn't do. Focus on yourself and use this time to become a man only a fool would leave. Whether your marriage survives or not...you WILL BE OK. :-)


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
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Hi Wet. What made you come up with that name?

My W and I are about the same ages as you and your W. We've been married 31 years, dealing with crisis for 2.5 years. We have no kids. (we're waiting for the right time, hehee)

Your W will not "come out of MLC" until she decides to look within for answers, instead of to outside sources. So, I agree with Heather... the multi OM thing could go either way... speed the process or slow it down. Best to stand far away and not focus on the train wreck.

I see you guys have been separated for a year. After reading your first thread I agree that your W is in crisis, so you've entered the correct forum. If you've been doing your homework you understand this will likely be a long ride. When do you suspect her crisis started?


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thanks Lois (or is it Heather?) and FY,

FY, you asked when my W started her MLC. It may have been 3 1/2 years ago when she got gastric bypass surgery. It was for sure by January 2013 when house is going thru foreclosure and she travels to NY with D18, and I asked to go with them, and she wouldn't let me. When she came back she bought a red 2000 Jaguar.

While separated, in March 2014, she sold our wedding ring and had tummy tuck surgery.

She has recently been reaching out to me, including telling me she "loves" me a week ago last Tuesday. Until I snooped her phone the following day and discovered the extent of her infidelity. Lois you are dead on, she is dating like a teenager.

I raise the topic of whether it is easier to get out of MLC if MLCer is dating many others compared to one OM, because I'm a guy, and I want to try and get my head around the topic of how a committed, good, moral woman suddenly turns into a tramp. It makes more sense to me if there was just one OM. But the 48 year old W having casual sex with others doesn't make sense to me, or seem to hold that much appeal.

And yes, I am using LRT.

Last edited by Wet; 07/18/14 12:11 PM.

Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Hi Wet and welcome,
It sounds to me the reason she is doing what she is is because the MLC is going back and "replaying" a time in their lives that they feel they somehow missed out on or didn't go the way they wanted. You talked about gastric bypass...did she have a weight problem in the past? Maybe she felt that she missed out on being young and "thin" and felt she didn't get enough attention from men. The weight loss, surgery, etc. is very common in MLC as well. My W now weighs less than when we got married 20+ years ago! She, like your W is "replaying" a time in her life that she felt cheated out of.

It sounds to me that she doesn't like who she is right now very much either. How long it takes her to get through this depends on how long it takes her to go through the stages of MLC (if you haven't already, you need to read up on here about the different stages). Either way, you are in for a long period of her acting out.

You need to detach from her. Learn to have no expectations and GAL separate from her. You do this for you. Your W is on a journey to relive some part of her life. Until she is able to reintegrate and become whole again, there isn't much you can do. Hang in there. Become the best wet you can. Use this time wisely. Your old W and M are gone forever but if your W can get through the tunnel you may be able to have an even better R than you did before this all started.

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Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1539436#Post1539436

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

Odds and Ends of MLC(new from Delboy)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=656357#Post656357

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template
which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively.
It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena).
So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process.
(Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.

I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.


Your H has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Last edited by Cadet; 07/18/14 01:56 PM.

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Thanks Matt and Cadet,

I have been on this site for 6 weeks. This is my second thread, and so yes, I have read and continue to review DR and most of the previous threads Cadet provided (the AmyC thread was a new one for me, I appreciate it.)

My W and I have always been friends, even thru the separation. Which is why I am hoping that my telling her that I am no longer her friend over a week ago, and not communicating with her except for a few texts about the children, has an impact. I am detached, I am not snooping, I have dropped the rope, and am moving on with my own life.

Another reason why I bring up this topic and am trying to better understand what my W is going thru, is that I am also deciding whether or not fighting for my marriage is worth it. I am willing to do whatever it takes (here using the LRT)to help her get thru her MLC, because I know the pain she must be going thru, and I still love her. But I not sure I can continue with this pain that I am going thru much longer. As everyone here knows, the pain is unbearable.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
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Originally Posted By: Wet
My W and I have always been friends, even thru the separation.


My W and I have remained friends too. I see this as a positive thing for the M. Many are not as fortunate.

Quote:
Another reason why I bring up this topic and am trying to better understand what my W is going thru, is that I am also deciding whether or not fighting for my marriage is worth it. I am willing to do whatever it takes (here using the LRT)to help her get thru her MLC, because I know the pain she must be going thru, and I still love her. But I not sure I can continue with this pain that I am going thru much longer. As everyone here knows, the pain is unbearable.


Understanding what she is going through is good. It will help you to have compassion for her. I'm convinced that as hard as this is on us, it's way worse for them. I never thought I'd make it a year, now lookie me! It really does get easier if you follow the DB plan.

Don't get ahead of yourself. You don't have to decide now if "fighting for your marriage is worth it". Live each day as it comes and you'll know without a doubt if the time ever comes to stop fighting.

Oh, and seeing Cadet's latest links reminds me I need to go back and check some of those out. Thanks, Cadet!


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thanks FY, I was in a down mood when I wrote my post. Your understanding and encouragement is helpful. It is the first weekend that W has her new condo that she moved into, without any of the children being there. I have S12, D18 traveled out east for school, and D17 is in Argentina for student exchange. And yes, the hamster wheel of my mind was going to places it shouldn't.

I know that I will have a better weekend with my S than anything that my W does. He makes me smile, my Mom gave him a complete set of baseball cards, and I was a bb card collector growing up so watching him gives me some good memories.

And oh yes, I just got a call setting up a job interview for next week. Hope is a good thing.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
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Keeping busy is good but so is working on you. I am reminded go Liam Neeson. When is wife died, he kept himself very busy. However he wasn't allowing himself to grieve and thus heal. It was a tradgedy to be sure, but something we can all learn from.

kat


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Hi Kat, I am glad you found my new therad. Thank you for the reminder to keep working on me. I've now lost 73 pounds, and I'm getting a new suit tomorrow. Nothing like a new suit to make me feel like new man.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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"They come runnin' just as fast as they can
'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man." cool


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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They made me think of what always got me. I love the smell of leather. My favorite scent for a guy...yep you guessed it English leather. Lol

Dress nice, walk confidently and you will get that job. That will be another step to getting back to you. Oh don't forget a firm hand shake. Nothing turns me off faster about a guy than a soggy hand shake. Makes me wonder if they shake everyone's hand that way or just mine since I am a girl. Just food for thought.

kat


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FY, a little ZZ Top this morning. I'm digging it. And Kat "English Leather", hmmm, I'm a Dove soap and antiperspirant guy, and my W has always said she loves my clean scent...

More on Sharp Dressed Man - I left my shirt and suit coat on the back of a chair yesterday. And last night S12 puts them on, I tie a tie for him, and he is dancing around singing "I'm So Fancy". Hilarious. The suit was so big it reminded my of David Byrne of the 'Talking Heads' in his Big Suit. I love that kid!


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Originally, I was going to ask what she liked. Then I thought ok what does Tom like because that is what you are working towards.

It sounds like you are creating great memories with your son. We all could use some good memories during times like this.

kat


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Thank you Kat. You are a good encourager.

I was browsing through Cadet's resource link (one dealing with MLC and Depression) and came across two helpful posts. First, something called Masked Depression. Just about every symptom listed here is what my W is going through. Here is the description:

Then we have 'Masked Depression'. The symptoms and behavioral problems listed have sometimes been referred to as masked depression. They are: chronic aches and pains, compulsive social activities: party-going, dating, avoidance of being alone, workaholism, and thrill seeking. These are all behaviors designed to keep someone from feeling depressed. We have impulse-control problems: rage attacks, sexual compulsions, shoplifting and gambling. Repeated accidents and multiple surgeries for vague complaints.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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The second post I found very helpful, again from Cadets' resource links (MLC and Depression) deals with the my original question - why would my W not just have one OM, but many other men? Here is what I think is a helpful response:

"….If you can get your hands on a book called "The Half-Empty Heart" by Alan Downs, Ph.D, it will help explain some of what your wife is feeling and expressing to you. You see, as a child, your wife's feelings were not validated by the people who were suppose to have loved her. She was stunted at an age whereby she must go back to in order to grow up. She has probably suffered from a chronic depression most of her life called dysthmia or as the writer coined it "chronic discontent". According to the author, the person may have chronic discontent for years and then something will trigger the major blow up and that when I feel the mlc hits. According to him, with chronic discontent, they feel anger, guilt and shame. These are the exact same emotions that the mlcer is feeling. They tend to be excited and happy for a short period of time w/something new and then toss it aside after just a few weeks. They find excuses to switch jobs, lovers, etc. He also states that they live in a gray fog that lulls the pleasure of their every experience. No matter what they try, whether relationships, trips, or hobbies--given enough time--everything eventually leaves them feeling unsatisfied and unfulfilled. This explains why she may have more than one OM. She is searching for something to ease her pain and provide her w/pleasure in her life. I really do think that this book would help you to better understand what she's trying to tell you about her feelings towards you right now. It's not about you at all, but very much about her and her unresolved childhood issues. Until she has gone back completely to the time she was "stunted", she will remain in mlc. She must be allowed to make the complete passage in order to come out a whole, mature woman. BTW, depression stays w/them throughout the crisis until acceptance. What you are seeing is the "mild" depression right now. When she completes replay and enters the stage of depression/withdrawal, it will be one of the worse depressions you will ever witness. ... The only stage that actually gets lost in the process is the denial stage (stage 1). She will bounce back and forth through anger, replay, depression and withdrawal. Once her issues have been resolved and she can accept things the way they are, she will then move on to acceptance. The most important thing for you now is to focus on yourself. If you have conversations w/her, stay upbeat, kind and courteous to her, be her friend, no expectations. She is at a stage whereby she can't take much pressure from you right now. Give her all of the space that she can handle. Drop the crumbs of friendship and I promise you, she'll continue to come to you."

This shows me that there are others out there facing the same thing I am going through. As the old saying goes, "there is nothing new under the sun."


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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If it helps Wet, my MLCr left the first time on Mother's day, leaving me and (at the time) my 10 and 13 year old at the house. There are many more strange things she doesn't even seem to remember now. They do strange things.

I'm curious about this though:
Quote:
She has recently been reaching out to me, including telling me she "loves" me a week ago last Tuesday. Until I snooped her phone the following day and discovered the extent of her infidelity.
You don't snoop, but do snoop the phone?? Hmm.. that's a recipe for disaster if you ask me.

And its been my experience that the MLCr does love you, but needs to do the things they are doing. Even at the expense of the relationship. It is that important.

What they do? Drink to excess, sleep around, skydive, run marathons, etc? Whatever is opposite of what they did before seems fair game.

What's not really fair is that they try to leave you on a hook. I don't think they do that maliciously. Rather, they don't want to hurt you/they want to hurt you. It's mixed up for them.

Fairness won't be a word you should use very often. Just so you know smile

Boundaries on the other hand, are something you should understand about yourself. I strongly suggest you figure out those boundaries. Which ones are critical and worth dying for and which ones are just ego talking. Take the quiet time to figure those out. They'll be more and more important as time progresses.

As the others mention, unless and until she figures herself out, there's nothing to do but NOT watch. I stress that not watch because it can be like watching a train wreck in slow-motion. It won't change the outcome for her, but it may destroy you.

Some things to think about. We've all walked a mile in your shoes. Personally, I wish you had larger shoes... wink

AJ


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Ouch, AJM, Mother's Day really?! Yes, I snooped when my actions of being her doormat/bestest nice guy friend for her, put me in a horrible situation, and almost into a fist fight on one of her boyfriend's driveways (it's not a great story, but if interested check my previous thread and my post on July 9-10)). Which led me to snoop her phone that night on July 9th, see what I was facing, and then with the horrors I saw, going LRT on July 10th. Since then I am not snooping.

Thanks for the comments that I am not in this alone, and that we are all facing our own individual battles. And that there is nothing fair in what we are facing, that I need to establish boundaries, and that I should NOT watch what she is going through. Message received.

OK, a little mess-up today. My W was late in picking up S12 where she was taking him to a graduation party. Because she was running late, she called to ask me to have "Tom" waiting for her outside. My name is "Tom", and it is not my S's name. So when she asked to have the child ready and waiting, I couldn't help but be charming. I told her one of the children would be ready when she came, and this made her burst out laughing. That is one of the things I am good at, making her laugh. Freudian slip on her part, asking to have me waiting for her when she came? Hmmmm...


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Like I said, you're not alone. I almost killed a couple of the guys and darn near blew apart a family that she was messing with the guy. Fortunately, I have better control then that and I was talked down off the ledge by my pastor. Otherwise, several local men would not be walking today.

Since she left, she's been worse. She remarried a few months after the divorce was final and her "monkey" has been less than stable. He does support her efforts to blame me though, so maybe that's something? smile

Seriously, look to the long-term. Remaining her friend is a helpful thing. Snooping is not. Getting into an altercation with some of the less than stellar people she's hanging around with right now, won't help in the long run. By won't help, I mean it won't help you.

My ex's response to controlling my behavior? She figured me for pathetic. But looking at the bigger picture, this is the same woman who said she never loved me, told me I deserved better than her, walked out on her kids, accused me of cheating, and eventually said she never said or did some of those things. Called me crazy for suggesting it. See the picture? smile

If you're able to find a way to be friends, it really is helpful. If you can't, and have to remain dark, then do so. There is nothing wrong with either approach, no matter what you hear. This time is YOURS. It's not what you asked for, but it is what is. She has to walk her walk and figure herself out. She'll say things that sting. Or do things that sting. A lot like a small child would do. But if you look to the longer term picture, it'll help your emotional well-being while you live YOUR life.

She may or may not figure things out. Even if she does, she may not come back to a relationship beyond friendship. But you do love her right? You want what's best for her, right? Even if you don't agree, right?

As long as it doesn't cross a boundary (and you'll find out what you will and won't accept in short order) or hurt your kids (beyond the obvious), then stand down and let her take her journey. She either figures it out or not, but you can't really help beyond being there for her according to your ability. And that's what your action is vs. snooping.

Ya see what I'm saying?

AJ


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Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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I went back and read those July threads and then some, Wet.

I stand by the idea that you need to do things for YOU. If you decide LRT is for YOU, then stick by it. Not to show her anything. Not out of anger. But because it works best for you. If being friends works for you better, then by all means do so.

Your friend liked the picture, because he knew it was what you wanted and he knows your W is off the deep end.

One of the biggest struggles I've had since ex left, is the reintegration of her with the kids. My daughter doesn't want to talk to me in three years, but spouts the same things her mom and H spout off about. Recently the ex brought up some medical stuff with my son to which I responded. I originally said I'd handle it, but figured she wanted to be a "mom". Turned out to be a circular conversation ending with her H cc'ing my daughter into the conversation and telling me I should tell my kids I don't love them and accusing me of cheating on my ex. I figured he was feeling some low self esteem or something. My ex followed it up by asking me (nicely) for some old family pictures.

If I wanted to read into things, I'd say she was trying to manipulate me. Mean to nasty, and ask something nicely kind of thing.

Know what? I haven't a clue as to what the motivation was. It's been like that for years now. She tries to do the same cycles over and over again. I don't read into them any longer, but I recall in the beginning that it was very confusing to me. I look back now and figure I just was too close to crazy and it's infectious.

Try not to mind read, but note that it will seem crazy to you. It'll seem odd if she says she wants stability so she moves out to be on her own and date a bunch of people. That's contradictory, Wet.

That's the world the MLCr lives in, trying to survive day to day.

AJ


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Thanks AJ for looking at my sitch. "Friends" with W? I've tried that during the 13 months that we have been separated, and she still continues seeing other men. I am doing LRT for me to help me be away from her situation, stop thinking about her so much, and to see if the loss of my friendship helps her see that her actions have consequences.

I am following the instructions of Sandi on this, to be "indifferent" towards her, as a W has no respect for a H who is a friend while she is seeing someone else. I am nobody's Plan B, and I hope this is coming through by my actions.

AJ, how are you getting through the day with the loss of contact of your daughter? The manipulation used by your ex seems pretty typical, but having no contact with your D seems like it must be the worst. What is your plan? What are you doing to GAL?


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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It's been years now, Wet. What am I doing about my Daughter? Nothing. Daughter follows her mother's track and abuses etc. and doesn't want to talk, except to accuse and be rude. The last exchange wore me out. After the ex and her H the last time, my daughter chimed in following suit.

Me? Stick a fork in me with regards to my daughter. I'm done for now. Was it painful at first? Absolutely the worst. My daughter and I were thick as thieves until just before her 16th birthday. At the same time, she missed a lot of time with her mom for years. I made a conscious choice to not make my daughter choose. Her mom seems to feel she should, and for now she is.

Is what it is and will either resolve itself in a way I like, or it will be in a way I don't like. Either way, I have no say in the matter to be honest.


GAL? Heck, I've had to scale back on some of that so I could get some sleep. Son, school, work, gf, house, family, vacations, hobbies, church, volunteer work etc are keeping me plenty busy for GAL activities. I once thought about getting a puppy, after my cat died and figured that would be a silly thing to do.

I was only relaying the information about my situation because on these boards we don't often talk about those things. We usually deride the person who does as not having moved on or say they are focusing on the other too much. I think we lose some of the ability to learn and socialize our experience if we do that, so I'm posting it. I do hope it helps, but I long ago dealt with the feelings part of this. These are just actions while I work to get ex to stay out of my life. Seems them leaving doesn't mean the same to them as it does to us wink

AJ


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How have the last couple of days been? I hope you are finding good things to grab in to in your day to day life. Have you heard from the job?

Hoping you have a blessed evening and are somehow able to find some peace.

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Thanks for checking in Kat, and I hope you have a great birthday.

Not much contact with W. She texted me to ask if I would take S12 tonight. I said no. I have an early (6 am) men's group, lunch with my parents, and the 2 pm interview for a job - none of which I mentioned to W. So I told her I would pick him up tomorrow afternoon.

I know this is wrong, but I re-started email communications with a single woman whom I really like. She always lifts my spirits, and it is fun to write back and forth with a friend. She previously broke it off when I told her last May that I was still married, but it is not bothering her now.

Last edited by Wet; 07/24/14 01:53 AM.

Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
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It is only wrong based on your intent. Are you only looking for friendship? Or are you hoping and looking for more? Some people seem fine dating while seperated. Personally,you are married until you legally are not. Everyone has to look at their own moral compass and decide that .

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Thanks Kat. You see through what I am doing. I'm just so disappointed and shocked by what I saw on W's cellphone, that I am wrestling with whether or not this is worth it. I click with the single woman, I make her laugh, she makes me feel clever, funny, and I like having another women enjoying my writing to her. She knows I am still married, and she is cautioning me against giving up on my marriage.

But I don't know...


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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So let's not make you or her into cheaters. You are looking to her to help you feel better, which makes her a bandage. That isn't healing. That is looking for someone else to take away your pain.

By trying to bypass it, you are only prolonging the inevitable. You have to work past it. I mentioned before that unless you and your wife do the self work,you won't want to even try to work on your marriage. First get you where you want to be, then if your wife is looking to come back, she will have work to do on herself and then you will have to work on recreating your relationship.

Food for thought. kat


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Your great Kat. How did you get to be so good at this? Thank you.


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"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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I think it helps that I am a psych major. I have done a ton of reflection and come to several conclusions along the way. I also have a strong desire to help others through this.

More than happy to help. smile. kat


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A quick update. I learned my W spent a long weekend with someone else. I had my S12 this weekend, and he slept for most of it bc of a weird sleep pattern he is in. So no fun for me this weekend.

So today I dropped off my dining room table to W (I got a new one, and she liked the old one) when I dropped off my son. It was unassembled, and she asked me to put it together. I just looked at her quizzically and just said "no". But I hate this. I would have put it together for anyone else in the world, but I also know that my being her friend for the past 13 months has done nothing. Let's hope a better week.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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I don't think you should have put it together. Let her feel the consequences of her actions. I would have taken advantage of the quite time and read or rented a movie. I have Roku and love not having to go renta movie and worry about returning it. I have hardly see any movies in the past few years do even older movies are new to me. smile

You will have a better week.

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Kat you are great. Thank you for the reassurance about the dining room table. I just feel like instead of acting "indifferent", I am acting more like a SOB.

And yes, after the encounter with W I went out to enjoy a movie. Although I think the movie I watched ('Blended' with Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore) was more for self-flagellation than for enjoyment. A movie about two "blended" families, and issues dealt head-on like divorce, cheating, failed attempt at reconciliation, etc. It had some tough scenes to watch. But perhaps I am just too raw right now.

Kat, I hope you had a great celebration of your birth. Have a great week too.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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I did thanks. I did a survey this afternoon and ...darn, I had to check the box 50-59. Felt it for the first time. Lol

Sometimes having the WAW see you not be the old you can have an impact. One of my good friends was really done with his marriage. He had found a new job, was selling the house, had really thrown in the rope. Just before the divorce hearing, she kind of snapped out of it and worked to get him back.

from what I can tell this is the kind of situation that works. The left behind spouse isn't playing games but is just getting to a better place for themselves.

Relationship movies are hard at first. I will admit the first divorce movie that I just loved was "it's Complicated". I laughed so much and it felt really good. You will get there.

kat


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Relationship movies and music were really hard for a long time. It's been about 2.5 years and I'm now able to watch/listen to anything. I still get emotional, but it's tolerable. In fact, sometimes I listen to relationship/love songs because it helps, now, to get out the feelings. I can't, though, listen to music that meant something to us as a couple. Bad Company is a NO NO.


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Bad Company, hmmm. The only song I can think of is the classic 'Bad Company' ('til the day we die') song. What are the other songs that stir up your feelings? For me Journey's 'Separate Ways' is the one that strikes my heart.

A quick update, last night W called me to let me know that D17 in Argentina had to be seen by a doctor because of lung asthma problems. But she's ok. We actually had a nice 5 minute conversation, which we haven't had in several weeks. I told her about an interactive theater experience (which I emailed to D18) in town where there is a chained up zombie with a group of 12 theater goers. The zombie's chain is slowly extended while the theater goers search for clues on the location of a key to escape the room. If you don't locate it in 1 hour's time, its curtains for everyone.

My W said that sounded like lots of fun. I didn't go for the bait, instead I quickly changed subjects. Anyway, my W made clear that she is visiting friends and family for this upcoming week (instead of going out on dates), which sounded like a baby step to me. But NOOOO expectations here.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Good. Keep those expectations low. It isn't what she says that you need to "look at" but her actions and what those are telling you.

Any luck on the job front?

Kat


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So it looks like I get to take my son12 and go up north to my brother and sister's cabins on a lake. My Mom and Dad will also be there. We will get to boat and fish, and hopefully eat and drink a little too much, and enjoy family. It should be fun!

Kat, I had a good interview last Thursday, but they won't get back to me for a few weeks. Seems like everything moves a lot slower during the summer.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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Hi Wet,
At first, acting "indifferent" feels like you're being an SOB because you are so used to being this persons H and taking care of them. I also felt (and sometimes still do) that way but have learned to let it go. You'll get used to it, don't worry.

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I just wanted to check in on you. Do you have plans to keep busy this weekend? Hope all is well!

kat


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I'm back from a long weekend up north by a beautiful lake with my s12, mom and dad, sister, brother and their spouses. We fished, boated, my son tubed, and just had a great time. The weather was perfect. A nice way to get away and do something different.

My s's phone did not get reception, and so I had him give W a call late Friday night from my phone. No big deal. Otherwise, still no contact except for trading texts about when s would be back. W gets him Monday thru Thursday or Friday this week.

Family can sometimes be weird. No one asked me how I was doing, or if there was anything they could do to help. But I was prepared for this from my Divorce Care class, family's just don't know how to treat someone going thru a divorce, and so they say nothing rather than do something that might hurt. I was able to open up a little to my SIL, which was helpful. But I just wanted my family to talk to me and not want me to just hurry up and be done with this. A little understanding goes a long ways.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Wet,

I think our situations are a step beyond the "normal" divorce...are situations are truly, deeply wackadoo. And, this doesn't help any when it comes to finding friends and family members who can handle the intensity.

Honestly, when I try to reveal details to family members...I often get a very glassy-eyed, deer-in-the-headlights sorta look in return. This is a fresh he!! that they simply can't understand.

Come here for validation when you need it. We "get it."

I'm glad you had fun this weekend. :-)


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I think it is difficult for most families to figure out the right thing to say...if there really is such a thing. My Dad in his come back to reality talk had me in tears in about 5 minutes. He went through a divorce due to adultry himself and just didn't believe in sugar coating a thing.

The one thing I get more than anything is that everyone gets where they need to be at thier own pace. You could be reading the perfect book for you to help you deal with your situation but if you aren't at the right palce to receive what you are reading it won't help at all.

I would like to think that they were just wanting you to take your mind off of it and have as normal a weekend as possible.

kat


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Thanks Kat and LoisB. Wow, I just had an eye-opening conversation with W's sister, who is very close to W (they lived together since separation thru this past June 30th). Sister did not know about MLC, and it now is making sense to her (if MLC can make sense). Here is the piece she added for me:

W's father was very controlling for the 8 daughters (no sons) growing up (W is youngest of 8 daughters). Especially on weight. He would bribe, insult, and do everything he could to try and have the daughters to watch their weight.

Sister told me of a telephone conversation she overheard of W when she was a teen. A Boy made a telephone call and asked for her, and when she answered, he called her "Piggy" and made other insulting comments. She hung up, and when sister asked her if everything was alright, she just said "wrong number".

I know see more clearly why my W has low self esteem issues coming from her childhood. These issues are drawing her to the many men she is now dating. I never imagined she had this stuff coming up from her childhood, or its power, and she has never seen a counselor for dealing with it. I thought my greeting her every morning and saying "Good morning beautiful" to her for over 20 years would have healed her of this. But obviously not.

So my question is how best to help my W in dealing with self-esteem issues arising from her father's comments growing up? I cannot do it, but should I suggest her sister recommend counseling?


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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I would. Funny, I have the voice of my brother in my head even now. He would introduce me to his friends, this is my sister, isn't she ugly. Joking or not it really hurt.

That is the stuff that sticks with you, not the stuff your husband or boyfriend is "supposed" to say. You have to hope that she works on liking herself. It takes a lot of time, certainly not an overnight fix.

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(hugs Kat), thank you. I just feel nauseous of what I learned about my W's pain growing up. I want to go and hug her, and try and fix this for her. I KNOW, I can't do this, but I can pray for her that she be healed of the pain that was inflicted on her when she was young. When I spoke to W's sister this morning she was in pain from what her dad did to her too (she was crying when we spoke.) I am seeing too much pain around me.

Kat you are wonderful. You have turned the pain in your life and are helping others. I respect you so much for how you have handled this. Stay strong!


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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I know it can be hard to register some of the things people say and do under the guise of love. I want to help others and I try to be kind and honest. I know how hard this process is, regardless of the outcome.

I think you are getting what work your wife has to do and what work you need to do. Hopefully you will see in the end how much effort has gone into making yourself a stronger and better person and it will pay off.

I am cheering for you.

kat


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A quick update. I have had no contact with W since S12 was picked up last Monday. But D17 will arrive at airport next Tuesday, after she has been in Argentina for 2 months. I am going to ask that we drive togther so we can hear all of her stories together. I miss the daughter, so it will be good to see her back safe and sound. After she arrives, she will be staying with W.


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It has been 2 months already? It sure doesn't seem like it. I don't see anything wrong with that but don't be surprised if she isn't so willing. She might play the you didn't take her to the airport card. Hope she had a wonderful time.

Hope you are doing well also. thanks for stopping by my thread.

kat


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Ah, what's a day without the chance of being a jerk? W texts me saying she has had a terrible migraine for the past 24 hours, and would I consider taking s12 to his football skills training later today. I texted back that I was busy and that I was sorry that she had a migraine.

Arggghhh! She has a history of debilitating migraines, and when she did I've always taken care of anything to do with our kids. Nothing seems to be working, neither being her friend nor being a disinterested jerk. When will this end? I'm sorry, a little venting...


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4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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Originally Posted By: Wet
Nothing seems to be working...


Hi Wet, sorry to hear you're having a hard time at the moment.

I know it's tough, and the only thing you can focus on right now is getting your W back.

Keep in mind, if W is in crisis (and I believe she is) then nothing you do will "work" on her.

So let's figure out what will work for YOU... How can you reach a place of peace and contentment within your new reality. That's what you need to focus on.

Please be patient with yourself. It will take time but you will get there.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

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FY, thank you for your compassionate words. On the "me" stuff, I sent out 5 resumes this week, and I have another interview on Friday. Having a new job, more change in my pocket, and less free time on my hands would go a long way to help me reach a place of contentment.

My head knows that this will take time. But every other part of me just wants to go over to my W's place and hold her. Slow down and take a deep breath...


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
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A quick update. W asked me to take s12 tonight because she is hosting a Girls Night Out. She also posted on FB that she was going to a glass blowing class with her female best friend. Hats off to my W for GAL. It's nice to see that she is no longer fixated on her dating websites.


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"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
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So did you take him? I would think once and while is fine. I wouldn't keep checking out her Facebook though. Kind of like snooping. Hurtful things may be found there.

Are you doing a fun activity with your son? Are you GAL? This is going totake a while so let's not stop working.

kat


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Hi Kat, you are kind to check in on me. No, I did not take S12 tonight. My D19 who lives with me had her truck tire burst into flames earlier this week (how crazy is that?!) And it will not be fixed until Sunday. So I had to pick up D19 from work and she needed my vehicle to go to school tonight.

The FB thing was kinda odd. I was told everything my W was posting on FB when I was up at the cabins with my family last weekend. I told them I was not interested, yet that did not stop them. Then my bf called me on Tuesday to tell me my W was being torched on FB for something, but I stayed away. It is strange how people think this is something that is important, and that I would want to hear about it.

My s12 has been away from my place for two weeks now, so I think he'll want some video gaming time, talking about sports (the Kevin Love trade talk is heating up here in Minnesota), and watching pre-season football on Friday night. I will make sure we have pool time to horse around and cool down. We just enjoy spending time together, and I'm looking forward to having him back. I'll talk to W when I pick up s12 tomorrow about driving together to greet D17 at the airport (from Argentina) on Tuesday. Take care.


Last edited by Wet; 08/08/14 01:52 AM.

Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Good luck on your job interview tomorrow! grin


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Yea, I feel horrible for what Cleveland did to Andrew Wiggins. Hopefully, he will be able to hand LaBron his rear on a plate! Then he will wish he gave a young kid a chance. Don't mess with Kansas players! smile

Wow that is crazy about your daughters tire. I would probably freak. Then I would get my act together and call AAA and get on my way. Since it has never happened to me though, maybe it isn't that easy of a fix.

Ditto on the good luck tomorrow. Good things will be coming your way.

kat


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Wet, I know what you are going through buddy. When my sich first started I thought my wife was going through a MLC. Turns out it was not so much. A combo of both. I did every thing your going through right now. And very painful. Just pushed mine away. Tough love hurts. Now I'm trying the opposite and slowly working better for ME. I wish you the best of luck!:)


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Thanks everyone for your support and encouragement. A quick update - my interview went great. It was with a head hunter though, and the position they were looking to match me up with would be at least a month out. Too far away right now...

So I talked to W yesterday that I would be at her place to pick up s12 at 3 pm today. I got there right on time, and W was not around nor answering her phone. S12 was left alone, so I picked him up and we went back to my place. W was also supposed to have son's football registration sheet so I could have it to go with him tomorrow to pick up his equipment - not done. W called me later to apologize and was getting a little frantic because this is the last day to get his equipment, and I was able to calm her down (I am good at that). No big deal, I will talk to the equipment people to give it to us w/o the sheet. But she insisted she would somehow get it printed and bring it over to me. So far, I have not seen her and I'm not holding my breath.

So having my s12 here is nice. As soon as he got here he started playing with his Xbox on one TV, and then run to the other room to play his play station on the other. He did sit down long enough to watch the start of the Vikings pre-season game (they are looking good.) So no chance to talk to W yet about the Tuesday airport plans.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Journaling - W texted me last night that she had son's football registration and I should pick it up in the morning. I texted back "ok". This morning I texted her asking if now was a good time to stop by and she texted back saying a simple "yep". Now, I am seeing my W mirror my behavior, when I stopped calling her, she has stopped calling me. And now, I give short texts and she gives short responses, and by nature she likes long texting.

So when s12 and I stopped by W's condo, I was wearing a tight-fitting short sleeve short. When W saw me she said "you're looking so skinny. Can I hug you?" Now, I'm still a big guy, so it was nice to hear my W call me skinny (and noticing the weight I've lost.) And I gave her a big hug. It was nice. I have always gave W lots of compliments, but I gave her no complement in response.

I then asked if we could drive together to pick up D17 from the airport on Tuesday, her return from a 2 month trip in Argentina. And W said "of course".

Then W complained that she thought d17 wasn't coming back for another week. That she had 3 photo shoots scheduled this week. She does not have a job, so I am glad she has some work, so I affirm her by saying it's good that she has her photography business taking off. Which leads to an uncomfortable exchange.

She tells me that she thinks there is a market for dating website photographs. Now my W had professional photos of her taken, which were successful for her in getting attention on the dating websites. And so I affirmed her saying it was a good idea, but getting a queasy feeling in my stomach. W then tells me she saw a friend yesterday, and he gives dating business cards out. I take a step back and look more uncomfortable. She then says that she wants to give this as part of her dating website photo package. Ok, I've had enough and ask s12 if he's ready to go.

The thought of her using dates and the dating websites to increase her photo business makes my skin crawl. But it is not anything that I can control, this is her life. Move on, Tom, move on.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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I'm sorry Wet. What a tough conversation. You seemed to handle it well. You validate and support her thoughts, but don't show her that you are disgusted by her decision. Maybe she's testing your reactions?

Keep focusing on a fun weekend with your s12!


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BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
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Wet, it's baffling the unthinkable, and often immoral things they talk about and plan, as though it's a completely rational....no... Genius ideas.

I don't know how you managed to keep it together when she told you her photog idea.... Wow. But to stop yourself from reacting and then change subject and turn focus onto the next thing.... Outstanding!!! (insert round of applause audio track here)

This quote was from my first thread from job (unparalleled wisdom and experience):

Quote:

BTW, your h will become the exact opposite of the man you knew, i.e., as I call them...the mirror image of former selves. Do not rely on him for anything, as he will most often not to show up at appropriate times or do what you would have "expected of him pre crisis.

Live your life to the fullest and detach as much as you can.


I thought of this when I read your posts with the football papers, and the new photog plan....yikes.

When I read this from job on my thread I thought, yeah, ok, I've seen that opposite thing. I've seen the failure to follow through or meet at the agreed upon times... I thought I got it.

I sooooo didn't. I still don't yet....

Not sure if this will help in your sitch or not, but I can at least offer how I relate.

After I thought I knew and saw it all (bwahahaa, silly newbie)..... It got weirder. It still keeps getting weirder. The things H says and does now are nothing like he was. They are bad ideas, undeveloped plans, rude, selfish, impulsive.... But he has to learn what won't work all on his own. <<<<< just a head's up that the online dating photog plan could turn crazier, as will other "ideas".

AND I HAVE TO LET GO AND LET HIM. ----sorry. I have to say that loud to myself over and over and over sometimes. I digress.

In the past, I would have, so critically, inserted my opinion, welcomed or not..... Into all of his plans and ideas. Judgment. Attempt to control. Who knows. I just thought I was helping and that I knew better than he did about certain things. I didn't realize it wasn't helping, it was adding to his already low self-esteem. <<<< You seem to have a good grasp on the space and learning she needs already.

A Big 180 for me now is to just listen, and validate the emotion. Not invalidate or even address what I perceive as a stupid plan.... But for example, point out the enthusiasm he has for it. "Wow. You seem excited!" "You've really worked hard!" "I can tell you've really thought about this". Notice I don't necessarily agree smile. <<<<this is where ours may be opposite. I loved reading she noticed your tight shirt and weight loss. Nice!

But remember they will say and do things that you can't imagine, and you can't make up. It won't make sense. It is shocking. It's their body and voice, but not the same person controlling the actions and words. It's a mind-fĄ(k for sure. Don't get lost in their delusion. Their world will not make sense in the way our world does.

The "detach detach detach detach" we keep reading is imperative.

ALSO-----INTENTION IS EVERYTHING.
I chose to learn and do the above 180s, validating, listening, NOT as a strategy to get my H back. This is MLC. It is every bit the marathon they all said. I have too far to go to know whether having my H back is something I will even want.

These are things h complained about me that I want to change because I want loving relationships in my life with all of my family and friends, and this can only make me better.

Whether or not I'm back with my H or a different man enters my future, I really like being this way. It feels so much happier inside.

And it keeps me from dwelling on his antics crazy crazy crazy


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Wow, Shining, great post. I hope I can get to where you are at SOMEDAY. The ability to detach, listen and have appropriate validating comments is really hard. I thought I was good at the active listening part before, but I am humbled by my inability to now do this with my W. And thanks to you and Atsbaby for believing I handled the encounter well.

One idea that I am struggling with. I pray for my W. I worry about her salvation, the trap of the night lifestyle that she is in. And I pray for healing of the pain of her childhood and an unkind father and cruel classmates who would never let her believe that she is beautiful. But it is really hard to detach while I'm praying for her throughout the day. But at least it is a healthier thought process of her, than just wanting to be with her.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Aahhhh, but you ARE getting there. I can see it:).

Seeing the one you love behave the complete opposite of who they were is painful.

If you have to feel the pain anyway... you might as well learn from it. I believe the lessons I'm learning are no coincidence. If I missed these lessons earlier in my life, I won't miss them again! This hurts! My eyes are wide open and I'm paying attention.

The alien-strange-behavior stuff hurt to see, but it made it easier for me to detach. It was clear this was not the man I stood with at the alter. MLC-H eyes are dead. Remind yourself she is in there, but not making these decisions at you or toward you or because of you at all. She isn't capable of even thinking that much about anyone or anything but herself right now. She simply can't. So it isn't you. She's just very lost.

One of the most loving things you can do for her, is to detach, take care of yourself, and stay out of her way. Be the lighthouse. Learn the dance she needs, the balance of reassurance and distancing.

The hope is that one day, she will work through her past and get there.

Keep praying. It works. I have felt God's presence in my worst moments. I would never tell someone else how they should pray, but I will share that for me, when I stopped praying for specific things to happen, and instead prayed for forgiveness for myself and everyone who hurt me, pray for happiness for everyone, (and I mean everyone), and for God to help me with my pain, there was a huge shift. He carried our pains for us already. And, I had to learn to stop trying to make things happen the way I think they should (selfishly), and trust that things will work and be how He has planned.

Knowing that helped me. I know the man I married would never try to hurt me. He is lost and only has enough energy to find some desperate way to make his own hurting stop. Or, this is truly who he is, and I didn't marry that guy anyway. And I wouldn't want to.

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Stupid, stupid, stupid. I let the snooping bug bite me this morning. I checked out W's emails. She is still on at least 2 dating websites, and for some reason this 27 year old guy’s email came thru from Friday night – he said W was a hard nut to crack, for not agreeing to go out with him. Blah blah blah. Then he wrote how he was fantasizing about her and he was coming up behind her, brushing her beautiful away from her neck… and more. Arghhhhh!

So the good news – she turned down a date with a 27 year old guy. Yay!. At least as of last Friday. But the bad news of course, she is still corresponding on the dating websites. And she is corresponding with 27 year old guys (21 years her junior). And apparently this guy thinks its ok to write explicit emails to her.

Lesson learned, I hope? Stop snooping! It only causes pain.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Stop IT!!! Wet, Stop, stop, stop!!!!

Push it away. Push ALL that NEGATIVITY away. It's not helping.

Stay in YOUR Lane...Life is better there, NO drama, NO more rejection. It's bad enough, don't make it worse. Guard your heart.

Imagine yourself at 5 years old, all cute and cuddly and loving and trusting and innocent. Imagine that lil Wet.

Now, imagine throwing that cute lil guy in with the lions at the zoo. Just pitching him in there like a toy for the lions to play with. That's what you did when you snooped. You fed that cute lil guy to the lions.

Don't do that!


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

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Oh LoisB, God bless you. I'm just so naďve. I really was thinking the best of my W. Here is what I was thinking this morning as I chose to snoop her email, (use a 5 year old's voice here, bc when I saw W on Friday and she was kinda nice to me):

"wow, my W likes me. She said I was looking skinny. She gave me a hug! Maybe she's moved on from dating other guys most nights of the week, and having more going on than just those dates. Yeah, maybe she's all better now. I'll just pop into her emails and see that she's moving on with her life. I'm sure that her life isn't that bad now." Ughhh.

It's just like venom to my soul seeing that bad stuff in W's emails. LoisB, I like your analogy of a 5 year old child and a lion's den. I will try and think of that next time I am tempted to snoop. But who am I kidding, I am still tempted to see what her profile is on this other dating website. But after exercising (nothing like another man describe his fantasy about my W to rev my heart up for some good exercising!) and your post, I think I can stay away from more snooping this afternoon. Thanks.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Her actions didn't show you that she was "waking up". She was just being nice, not being the woman you are married to.

You need to keep that spotlight on you and your kids. I know it is hard, I get it. You don't want who your wife is being right now. So you don't need to even think about moving towards her until her actions are in line with yours.

You are making progress in your life. That has got to be an incentive for you to keep on this path.

Hang in there. kat


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Kat and Lois are giving you good advice Wet. Don't snoop this afternoon, tomorrow, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday .....you get the idea!

I've been fighting this bug also. When my H started this 3 years ago, that's all I did and it hurt like he!! to see that he was talking to OW when I was available to talk with him.

Yes I have some curiosity to know if there is an OW now, but I have to detach and move on. H has chosen not to have me in his life for now and I am showing him respect and privacy by not snooping (but I want to crazy ).


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
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D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
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9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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Ladies, thanks. Kat you are so right. I want to see hope where there is none coming from W. I get it.

So I staid away from more snooping - Atsbaby, it does help to hear that others have the same struggle. I had a wicked game of nerf skipping with s12 in the pool. And we are watching a great end to the PGA golf championship. A good day with son.

W told me she is gone all day, and that I should drop off s12 at her condo at 8 pm. Then she called me to say that she would be home even later after 8, and that I should just drop him off home alone (I hate that.) But this is the life I have today - accept it and detach. It should be a great week with D17 coming home and I should hear back from one of the jobs I applied for. Blessings on all of your weeks.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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^^^^^^ me too^^^^^^

For the entire first month after S, I wanted to know if ow car was at my house. I made excuses to have to go to cvs and would just "oops" circle through to pass by my old house where h still lives.

Drove to cvs once today, and went for a walk.... Still tempting, but no drive-byes for months... smile.

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Just curious...can't you keep your son or at least tell her that you won't be dropping him off alone at night? I have had the boys stay together after school when oldest was 11. I did have them watch the girls after they were going to school.

I know this isn't going as fast as you hoped. No one ever said anything worth doing was going to be quick or easy.

Yep, no more snooping. It doesn't help anyone.

kat


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Journaling – A bad weekend for me. So besides what I already posted about, the one thing that has stuck with me is when I mentioned the high school coach saw S12 in his football shoulder pads and said “looking good”, and I texted this to W, and she responded with “John?”. When I talked to W's close sister today, and gave her this story I suggested W hurt me unconsciously because she made it sound like she went out with the coach, and sister said are you kidding? Of course W did this on purpose to hurt me. That W was in the kitchen of her parent’s house 10 years ago and told everyone and W said “I married a lawyer, we should be rich by now!” That W is angry with me for never making a lot of money. And everyone was shocked, and said later if she wanted to be rich, then she should go out get a job herself, and not rely on her husband to be rich.

Sister also said that she thinks W has mental health problems. Besides the mid-life crisis there are other things going on. So I asked her if there was anyone special in W's life, and she said no, it’s just these many dates with younger men. The successful ones, the one’s with good jobs she doesn’t get serious about and ends it quickly.

I’ve always thought that if I got a good job with a steady paycheck, that W would come back to me. But perhaps too much time has passed, and she no longer trusts me, and has moved on. I'm still trying to process what this all means.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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So d17 is now home after spending 2 months in Argentina, Yay! I spent 4 hours with W, and it was good. I got to W's place early. She offered me a beer, but had no opener. We talked for a bit when she started complaining, about s12 not going to football practice, her need for more money (can't afford to have cable tv/internet), s12 lost the parts to a lamp for his room (it cost $50), and her sore calves (doesn't know why).

But then she changed and came out wearing her tight frilly blue top, with her push up bra revealing her ample cleavage, I wanted to jump her right there. Screw Db’ing, I wanted her. I am still under her spell. She held her arms out for a hug, I was sitting on a tall bar stool type chair, and if she would have taken a step forward I would have had her in a full body in between my knees hug. But I jumped up and hugged her, and she gave me a kiss. Then she said “aww, I was coming to you in your chair.” I then switched topics off her bad stuff, and had her talk about her upcoming 30 year reunion (she is very excited), music in the condo (she needs it), Tony Stewart killing another driver, and other small talk.

The drive to the airport was comfortable. She was wearing shorts and took off her shoes, and stretched her legs on the dashboard. Yes, I see your legs W. And she was massaging her sore calves, yes, it was sexy. She did bring up one topic that was on her mind that could be a danger sign – she said she wants d17 to spend the night with me on Saturday nights, so she can have her place to herself. She explained that she has learned to really love her alone time. This is totally out of character, she loves being out and being with people. I responded knowing that there is no chance that d17 would ever agree to spend the night at my place because there is no room, so I said “well, she’s 17 years old she gets to make those decisions for herself”. W said we will have to double team her. Affirmed her, yes, we will try.

We waited at the baggage claim. W said she was going to the bathroom, and 15 minutes later she still hadn’t come back. I thought, oh no, she is texting boyfriends again and wanted some space. But then I checked my cell and she had texted me to come to the other end of the terminal where d17 would first come in. So s12 and I came up behind W and she was texting, and so I announced we were there and she didn’t hide her phone (!, first time in many months she hasn't been secretive with her phone), and eventually I came and sat next to her, no hiding anything, she was texting her sisters about her father’s eye surgery earlier today. In fact, I cannot think of a single text she had while we were together.

So d17 came down the escalator, I saw her first. And W squealed and gave her a big hug. I came up and give her a hug, and she said “Dad your so skinny!”, and W responded “yes, he’s lost 75 pounds”. Now I have purposely not mentioned that to W because it would be pursuing. So either her sisters or one of her friends must have told her. She patted my stomach before I could tense up. Oh well. :-)&#61514;

So we got d17’s luggage and tried to get back to the van. We got lost. We were in the wrong level, we were in the wrong section (long term parking ramp instead of short term. W went into an emergency exit staircase, and we heard security catch her and talk to her over an intercom eventually telling her how to get out. It seemed funny. But we were walking all over the airport, I was lugging d17’s 100 pound suit case. But I was keeping up. W asked if I wanted her to lug it, but I refused. There is no way I could have done this even 6 months ago.

We went to Perkins for some food after. W was odd. She only ate half of her meal. But then she ate half of one of s12’s pancakes, and some his hash browns, and later one of his eggs. She took some of d17’s hash browns. Then a funny moment came. I originally texted d18 (in Boston) when d17 was with us at the airport. Now, here W hadn’t had any rude texting the whole night. But here at 12:30 am, I get a text from d18 and I gave her a quick reply. But it was right during a slow time in the conversation, so it seemed like I had another woman that I was texting with her late at night. No, I didn’t explain anything. It was a nice family meal together, laughing, fun hearing d17’s stories, it was good.

I am encouraged from the night together, because W at least did not text in front of us other those dealing with her father. I showed myself to be healthier. I didn’t do much if any pursuing, I was fun, interested in Olivia’s stories, I goofed around with s12. I looked good and carried myself well. And the good family meal together, I hope that W hasn’t forgotten that this is all part of our family life she walked away from.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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So W texted yesterday morning telling me our d17 (who was exhausted from her trip back to America) was sleeping like an angel. I did not respond.

But I did text her later last night telling her of our long time friend (from high school) who was no longer drinking, he was once a pretty wild guy. We had a nice light exchange until she asked me to pick up s12 on Thursday (Kat, we have a flexible visitation schedule. I have s12 every weekend and sometimes longer. Basically whenever I want him.) I texted her that I was busy (which I was, with a MRI appointment at 7 pm, but I left it 'mysterious'), and that I would pick s12 up on Friday. No problem she texted, but I am sensing some jealousy on W's part, but perhaps its my wishful thinking.

So I saw my old high school friend today for a late cocktail lunch (me drinking, not him). He is someone who understands what I am going through, as he has went through a battle where his W went through a phase of drug use and wildness when she turned 40 years of age. It is so therapeutic to have someone who knows the pain I am going through. And I now know much more clearly the pain that he has gone through. He is still married, but they do not have a good marriage. I suggested he check this website out, so we will see. But it was a really nice lunch.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Just remember the truth is in her actions. It is so easy to make something more out of words than is there. She wanted something and so was nice on the phone. Take it for what it was.

Hopefully, eventually, the words and actions will match.

kat


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Wet,

Sounds like things are going well. Keep up the good work!


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M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
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BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
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Well, I was right. My W is a wee bit jealous, because I was "busy" last night. I texted her today to let her know when I was picking up s12. And she texts back "did you have fun last night?" I did not reply.

And so, when I picked up s12 just now, she was icy. No hug for me and certainly no kiss - she has given me a hug and a kiss the last several times I've seen her. She also looked really tired.

I'm hoping this is a good sign. She hasn't cared what was going on with anyone but herself for most of the past 14 months of separation. It's different, and different has to be better than limbo-land. Jealousy, she's never, ever been jealous of me, or anything I've done, and so it's kinda a nice feeling.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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This side of Jealousy is a new thing for me, where my W is jealous of me. I think this has to be a positive thing, because doesn't there have to be some ownership/control that is being violated, for there to be jealousy?

I did some quick googling on the subject, and found there are 3 main causes for someone being jealous: Insecurity, fear of being replaced, and competition. My W has new found insecurity and lack of self esteem. And I think fear of being replaced is the other big one here. I've lost some serious weight, I'm healthy, and I look good in my new suit. ;-)

Though 14 months of separation is a long time for jealousy to first appear. OK, I did wear some cologne when I picked up s12 on Friday, which I never do, and so maybe I'm having a little too much fun with this. I suppose I should not take it much farther though, as I am not getting positive results from W.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Wet,

Who knows what she's thinking and guessing doesn't help because her thoughts can change every ten seconds.

It's obvious you are getting her attention since she is reacting differently, even 14 months into it. They are all on their own timeline, not ours.


Quote:
as I am not getting positive results from W.


What are the positive results you are hoping for? I'm reading this as a possible expectation...

You should be so proud of yourself. Your changes are awesome. Losing weight feels really good! The cologne, wear it if it makes you feel good about yourself.

After S, I bought new perfume (haven't worn any in decades) and I wear it daily as part of my PMA. I feel good in my skin when I take care of myself....with or without H.

Remember this is for you. W being jealous is a sign she cares.... But keep expectations of her at zero, and keep focusing on you. I think THAT is the positive result we are all here to achieve.

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I dropped off s12 at W's place. I went up to pick up a bedframe she wanted out of her place, and I needed one. She was moving boxes and junk out of d17's room so she could have a clean place to stay. And W looked tired and beat from the weekend's work. I am pretty sure she wanted a hug from me (she stood close to me in the narrow hallway, so I had to squeeze by to go see d17). But my DB orders are clear - no pursuing! So I did not hug W, we chatted briefly and I left.

This next weekend is a big one for W, she has her 30 year class reunion. She is so excited she joined the administrative notice committee. Now she has the administrative skills of a pregnant yak (smile) but it did give her an opportunity to go out on lunches with bunches of her guy classmates. One odd story, when we were at the end of our trial divorce (end of June) she mentioned she had lunch with one married male classmate, and he kept wanting to sleep with her (!, mock surprise). She kept going on and on about this, that I finally had enough and said "listen, although we are separated, we are still married too!" Her mask came down briefly, but then she put it back up, and fluttered away. I've seen this in other people's sitches where the WAS thinks they're divorced already, though it is just a separation. What goes on in the MLC's spouse's minds?


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Quote:
I've seen this in other people's sitches where the WAS thinks they're divorced already, though it is just a separation.


Yyyyyuuuupppp. Mine took his ring off. Then assumed he was single.

No ring= free fling.

I have no idea what goes on inside their minds, but I hear it's pretty bad, and we probably don't want to know.

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^^^^^^

Yes. After BD, they frequently refer to themselves (and act) as if they are single. People going thru MLC generally have horrific memories, so it's possible they won't remember a significant portion of what they do and say.



3 kids
BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. )
Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style
D final 9-9-14
"Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
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Truth darts shot on occasion can be really powerful. I can't tell you what goes through their minds, just that it isn't reality.

Any news on the job you applied for? Good for you staying strong with your wife..

kat


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Thanks ladies. Shining, my W was worse than just taking her wedding ring off. This past April, W sold the wedding ring and got a tummy tuck surgery, for her new found dating website friends. And at this stage, I was in full blown doormat mode. I supported her, and even gave her a ride to and from the hospital. I'm such an idiot!

Kat, I have not heard back from my most recent interview yet. I am still sending out resumes. But at my current work, my boss is finally (after 5 years there) putting up a website for me to boost my business. I'm kinda getting confused on the job front too.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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My H no longer wears his ring...might consider himself single acts like my roommate/coparent with benefits.... but looks at me like his wife.
WTF I know right now he is not in his right mind...and I'm a lil crazy for standing and watching this crazy MLC show


Me 43 ring off Oct 2014 (my ring back on Feb 2015)
H 51 (ring off 7/2013)
M 2007 T 1996
S 14
July 2013- H told me he was unhappy.....said he is staying for Son
Feb 18 2014 Found out about OW
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Wet,

Oh, wow...tummy tuck in exchange for a wedding ring... That's a new one I haven't heard. Awful.

You can have either my Doormat crown, or my Idiot crown. You can't have both. wink

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Shining, you have a nice gift to turn a sad situation into a smile. Thank you.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Ouch. That would hurt. I do remember telling my ex if we had any chance we would have to start all over. Build a new foundation. I still think that is right, no use building on a broken foundation.

So what are you doing for yourself lately?

kat


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Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
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Hi Kat, I have another interview set up for this Friday. I went Saturday night to the Twins game with s12. It's so much fun to talk stats with someone who is a stats geek like me.

I'm a little nervous about some neuropathy (lack of feeling - non-diabetic) I have below my knees of both legs. But I saw a neurologist last week, and he is great. He thinks its related to something going on in my spine, and has scheduled 2 MRI's, which I moved to next week.

I had some professional photos taken of me last week. It's nice to show off the loss of weight on FB. It's also nice to keep in touch with friends, I spoke to one I have a 'Twin Son of Different Mothers' kind of relationship with earlier today. It's nice to catch up. Thanks.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
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Weren't you playing my Royals? Man they are playing well this year. Now if we could just get an owner who believed in developing our talent rather than selling them to the highest bidder...

I hope your neuropathy isn't anything too serious. I know that I had a pinched nerve when I was pregnant with S18 and that hurt. I can't imagine a loss of feeling. Good that you are getting that checked out.

Life continues to be crazy here but I suppose that is better than the same old, same old any day.

kat


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Hi Kat, yes those pesky Royals got a beat down by the Twins on Saturday night with Phil Hughes catching them sleeping. I am glad Divorce Care is tonight, I am needing some prayer and support (and yes, I am keeping you in my prayers.)


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Well you are in mine too. I do realize how hard this is. Really though is anything worth fighting for easy to gain? Keep your focus. Talk with people going through the same thing.

I made some interesting revelations today in talking with my former mother-in-law. She apologized for not knowing fully what I had tried to share while ex was cheating. I suppose I never came right out and said it and she perhaps chose to not believe her son was capable. Either way, some hurt feelings were put aside. Family can be your allies but you do need to say what you need too.

kat


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I am an attorney, and just completed my Client's divorce. She was married over 20 years, and just received her maintenance lump sum pay-off, so she's happy. A nice thing greeted me this morning, a 'thank you' note and a Bundt cake from a local bakery specializing in Bundt cakes. Maybe I should have charged her more? I'm just kidding...


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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OK, this isn't my fault. I accidentally 'snooped' my W's email account. I was trying to send an email to my d18's school, and when I clicked on the person's email address, my W's emails came up.

Nothing horrible, I just saw that my W is on one dating site now - 'OkCupid', which is apparently a free dating site. But really W, you want to go on a dating site with other guys who can't afford to be on a real dating site?

OK, this part is my fault. I looked at W's dating profile on OKCupid. She states on there that her ex-husband (who is that? we are still married) thinks she is "perfect". How do I object to this? I don't think she is perfect, certainly not anymore. And yes, it tells me on there that she was on the site an hour ago.

I am venting. I thought my W was slowing down with the dating sites, and maybe she is. But it's still disappointing. But to use your current husband (me) as a reference for yourself on a dating website? How lacking of class. I may have to confront her about this one.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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Hi Wet,
All I can say is WTF!!! I really think she has gone over the rainbow!! Sorry you had to see that.

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(((((Wet)))))

So sorry you found that! Personally, I think this needs to be something you let go. She's going to see it as you snooping and use it against you later.

As for "XH thinks I'm perfect" May make other men wonder why your an "x"
(At least that's what jumped in my head when I saw it!)


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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Wet,

Been there.

Done that.

GUBU has a dating profile that says so many things that aren't true (age, personality, REALITY), it took me over a week to digest what he had on there.
A bunch of wishful thinking about who he WANTS to be, but isn't.

If it's any consolation, I know of people who have set up phony profiles to "chat" live with these MLC/WAW types to catch them at their own game.

And the cheating spouses say things like:
They are widows/widowers. Feel sorry for them!
They are wonderful people, trapped in a dead and loveless marriage for years, just waiting for the ink to dry on the divorce papers.
They're just staying in it "for the children".
Their spouses have cancer and they're lonely.. they're wonderful caregivers.
Feel sorry for them!
They are divorced, younger, make more money, are just overflowing packages of wonderfulness waiting for the "right person" to make their lives complete.
They are the "total package". They have SO MUCH TO OFFER.. but in reality, it's all about what they are trying to GET.

Take it from me.

IGNORE IT.


It's fantasy. It's meaningless.

Anyone they meet will see them for who they are.
(Or they won't, and they'll pay the price. And that's not your problem.)


It's easy to project an image of what you WANT to be online.
An Avatar is just a mask...

....but there is no escaping REALITY.


When a real face-to-face happens, the truth will be revealed.

Watch the TV show "Catfish" and see how many people misrepresent themselves.

They'll pay the price eventually. Let life teach them that lesson.

Laugh at their antics, then refocus on your own life.

(And if I could take my own advice and get paid for it, I'd be rich. smile )


---GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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PS: If she was meeting great people and really HAD a life where she met compatible people, she wouldn't NEED to be on a dating site.

Someone pointed that out to me about GUBU.

"Guess his social life isn't going so well, huh?"

RIGHT!!!

He doesn't live in the Outback. He is around people all the time.

For a point of reference, I wouldn't feel the need to post a profile on a dating site.

I live in AMISH COUNTRY, for Pete's sake! And if I were so inclined, I could be dating--a LOT.

So---pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
She's just grasping at straws....


---GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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GGG, yes, you have helped. The funny thing is W's 30 year reunion is on Saturday, and she made a point to go out over the last few months and have lunches/drinks with a number of the men in her class to help get the word out about the reunion. Your point rings true, where are they now? Thank you for making me smile.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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OK, the W's long party / 30 year reunion weekend has started. W asked me to pick up s12 from football practice tonight, so she can go a girlfriend's graduation celebration from rehab. Then she went into excruciating detail of how she is going to spend the night in a town an hour away at a new girlfriend's home to continue the celebration. Then on Sunday night she will stay at girlfriend's home to take her to a surgery on Monday. She also made sure I have d17 and s12 on Saturday night so her place is empty in case she wants to continue the party after her reunion party. It's a lot of partying going on this weekend for W, yippee!

W's horrible parenting continues. W asked me to take d17 to an orthodontist apt 45 minutes away. D17 stays at W's condo, but has no key. So after the appointment hwen I asked if d17 if the door would be left open at the condo for her, whoops they forgot to discuss it. My d17's quick call to W, and W told her to just wait 45 minutes outside, take a walk or something, until she gets home. It's 100 degree heat index today, there is no way I would let this happen. I said that d17 should stay at my place until W comes to pick her up - W refused, it would delay her party plans by at least a half hour! I made sure d17 at least got into the condo lobby which was air conditioned, but I let my disgust spew out on d17. I asked d17 "is your mom is still going out on dates every night." D17 was confused, but said that yes, she is going out with her friends every night. So I may have shattered the illusion of my sweet, naďve d17 about her mother. Oh well, I can't feel too bad that W's actions are coming out to the light of day.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

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As far as her being on dating sites, you shouldn't be surprised anymore. I think she is looking for what she needs outside of herself. She doesn't understand that she needs to find herself by looking inside. Think of someone that is hurting and using a ton of ban aides to make herself feel better. It isn't going to help because the wounds are internal.

As for your kids, they will figure out what a mess she is well enough on their own. Why not get d17 to ask her mom to make a copy of the key?

kat


Me-53(and learning!)
S24, S21, D18, D17
Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
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