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Hey GG,
The one part i wanted to comment on was how they seem to hate when we are having "fun"! Every time my W has heard me say anything about some GAL activity (usually when I'm talking to my D's and she over hears) she seems angry about it! One time she even got pissy and said "I'll be doing fun stuff once I get all moved in" with a sour look on her face. I just smiled and said of course she would. Gee, I didn't know this was a contest! If it is, don't worry, you are way ahead in the making me miserable department!

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GG MLCers are zero fun to be around.

And yes, many of them resent our having fun, when they are supposed to be having fun. Some of them also want to hurt us (not all of them, but there is that element)

On one level they do not want us around, and on another they do . . . . a bit like teenagers with their parents.

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hiya goat girl _

and yikes, i sure relate to many many things you say.

Quote:
OK. It was a little hard because I have not had any love in years.
And that statement coming from a woman who would have described herself as "happily married" (mostly) is a sad commentary indeed.


i would have said same thing of self -

this whole business of weeding our way thru this awful sitch - of their creation (yes, i'm weighing in) like you- i'm not perfect - i've always been willing to listen and talk- my life is an open book- he knows it- he could have spoken at any time and gotten whatever he needed from me- well, in the sense of UNDERSTANDING, even if it was bad news and he was unhappy. it's all i ever asked for- honesty. no kidding. just that - be honest. my ex h was a liar- i really hate it. no need for it really-

treat other person as an "equal" and have the decency & courtesy to say what is your problem and leave the r if you're sooooo unhappy. do not put us in the dark- trusting that we love you and trust you - the blame is soooo baby-ish. (and such a cop out) (it's sooooo what i see everywhere around me- my family particularly- everyone has someone else to blame for their crappola - for cryin out loud people- nobody embraces doing the "right" thing when it's really really HARDDDDD..... we do it because it's the decent thing to do- it's the right thing to do (and our own little voice won't let us off the hook ) - i'm tired of people who do the EASy thing and then blame it on everyone else. i'm no saint- i'm honest tho, (i find conflict really really hard)

YOU SAID - NEITHER pursued each other- us too. it was a (probably) good mix of two very independent, not very mushy people - i thought it was perfect (taking reality into account - longevity, etc) . whatta dope i was. i don't know how you make a non-talker - become one. it requuires alot of intuition and assumption on our(my) part- certain things about r don't change - who people are inside - how they c ommunicate.

sadly- when h & i have a good phone convo- i'd bet he's on his way to go see ow soon and feels guilty as hell and is nice as hell as a result.

i have no idea how to cure or end this once and for all- (unless i'm ready to walk i think) (maybe i'm a sellout because i "fear" being all alone, lonely &poor as heck. he's making my life waaay better than i can provide for self - in real world - by paying bills) and that is an uncontrovertable fact.

that his only choice was to cheat and lie- well, that is totally on him. i'm thinking goat girl - you too. my h has his entire life organized (legally) so that he is a "free" man anytime he wants to be. no f'ing strings , no obligations that are hard to get out of-

he chose to stay and lie and so on. ANYHOO - soooo many things you say, are true of me too- been with this guy 38 or so years.

been dbing for at least three- i'm beginning to forget- it seems like forever and no lie. it stinks-

my h, like yours, is so wierded out- he can't see it-

it all began with me being THE REASON for alllllll his unhappiness in life. he appatrently decided that the "fix" for that (my awfulness in his life??!!) was to dredge up a couple old babes from his youth and have affair(s) -

it may be his crisis (i do not see his "suffering" and anguish -if it exists (i concede he's crazy and confused or "lost" ) on the other hand- i see what i feel and plod thru - the pain, etc. and then his mlc - well, frankly my dear - it's a load of rubbish to me. i get it, insanity, mlc, all of it- i believe it too. the other half of me says total garbage and self serving junk from a person unwilling to just have the ups and downs all the rest of us experience in life- and man up- see it for what it is, and get on with it. appreciate the less exciting, but more worthwhile love we have. life is not non-stop fun & purpose - we all feel like a pointless life at some time, we all need new direction at some point (age, retirement, sickness, death around us, etc)

it never is a good reason (or permissable reason) to hurt the other guy- blame them (???) and be a jerk wholesale.

THAT is their choice of reactions to life's confusion and scary-ness.

my humble opinion.

when you were sayin back a bit about talking on the phone- little spark of "life" - went well. me too- this business of watching every step and dbing and having "strategy" is soooo wearing. who the heck knows what every nuance means? what tiny "thing" is rite or wrong-

you sound like you're going with your gut and doing good- knowing someone sooooolong- witnessing their change into something soooo unfathomable-

i would have said i was in love, loved and happy. we were happy- we were the couple that all my friends envied.

alot still do- h can be great - he can be the biggest jerk in the universe - like spinning that ole roulette wheel and wondering where the stupid ball is going to land.

this ow stuff- i am doing my best to accept- detach(?)(!), am more detached than beginning- if i were totally detached i'd be gone i think. i don't like it- i cannot end it for him- i don't see myself "doing this" forever -

i worry that that is exactly what he thinks - for the rest of my life i am here in his life as whatever i am to him - (important - BUT....) AND SHE's the go to person for sex, doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

it's soooo jacked up - i did have a point here based on something you said - let me think - oh yeah-

i guess your quandry about having the R talk. in very beginning i tried a couple times- itnever ever was a good convo for us. even in ancient times- i'd say (in retrospect) my h is seriously damaged goods in emotional dept. he said it himself - when i met him about his big "thing" being his mom leaving in dead of nite, his lving with nazi dad, etc.- i heard it- i ingested it- i had no idea (really) it could spell emotional disaster. th at and looking at his selfish- cheating parents and realizing that's what he was aiming towards (maybe) kids become what they see-

idk- you sound like you're doing really well tho- feeling way- listening to your gut- being sure who you are and what is your part in this- (it aint the "reason" ) and of that i've become very sure. and i'm a person whose more than willing to shoulder lots and lots of guilt and responsibility always.

good luck tho- i'm reading with interest. i wonder where it will all land- for either of us.

I feel a bit heartened to hear the things you say- feel them and kn ow i feel it too- but the whole inequity and insanity of it gets to me sometimes. I spend alot of time alone because h goes down to fla for three weeks at a clip- than back up to nj for a week or two , it's another sort of insanity- but the alone time always reminds me that that is not all roses either.

i'm heading to fla for a month - will see how it goes to inject myself back into old life (which seems kind of rotten when i'm down there in my old digs - and know now that it was alot of a sham - alot of the time - rather than just happy life in happy house. that's the worst part- wondering just where the 'reality" left off and when. oh well huh-

we can do this rite??

xxo and good luck

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Nero,

Great post here, thanks!

Yes, some definite similarities in our predicaments!
------------------------------

So far, allowing a bit more communication about practical things seems to have relieved some tension.

I am still DBing as close to 100% as I can manage on any given day.

I still only contact about practical matters which require attention, or in response to similar contact from him.

I think we don't do well texting and he's said he hates it, so...

Phone calls, short, sweet, and upbeat is what I'm aiming for.

After all, how can he feel/hear me being friendly and upbeat if he never sees or talks to me?
To have any kind of R we have to feel friendly and good around each other, right?
---------------------------------------------

I still get a bit confused about the cake-eating thing.
I feel he needs to know how much it's gonna suck for him when I'm gone, but SOMEHOW I have to let him know I am not a lost cause without just coming out and saying so.

If he's not actively cheating (just trying to???) I'm a bit lost on how to play it.
This is when I wish my ability to read social interactions was better.
THIS IS SO HARD!!!!
And, to my knowledge, he only started actively searching for some "companionship" after several weeks of me essentially ignoring him.
I think he REALLY doesn't want to be alone. He has said so.

-------------------------------

The vets have said to refrain from reaching out, and I agree.
However, since my reason for being dark was self-preservation and detaching, I'm not sure there is a good reason to stay dark if he is not crossing my boundaries.

He is doing things I don't like, but he doesn't know I know so I don't want to tip my hand on my intel...

So it's no R talk, just listening/validating, and no "just checking in" out of habit.

Let HIM do that if it's what he wants.
----------------------------------

But he can't feel warm and fuzzy towards me if I'm MIA, and I have noticed him saying "Hi" to me when he's around, sort of an opening.

(Wow. 23 years of M and I'm encouraged that he's saying "Hi." Wow. )

So I don't want to be "friends" if we divorce, but it seems we should be some kind of "friends" now.
Isn't that how love blossoms?

Help me out here.

My brain is toast.
Too little sleep, too much input, I'm on overwhelm mode right now....

----GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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And.
Facts that I know:
1. He did buy Viagra online. X 30!!!
2. He joined the dating service very recently
3. He has another "mystery appointment" today.
4. He is warmer towards me when we have more consistent contact.

I agree with the above assessment that he is super-sensitive and is probably beating himself up quite a bit. He doesn't need that from me, even if it's unintentional.
I need him to FEEL GOOD around me.

I can do that!

Meanwhile...I am resisting the urge to snoop!

And no, I don't think it's a "date". I think he is pursuing some type of intervention. Just don't know what it is.

----GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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Here's where I'm sticking. This dovetails with Sho's thread, comments by Starsky and Train.

My H has filed for divorce.
He thinks we're "separated" but there has been no discussion of what that means other than I threw him out and he has not asked to return.
He's living rent-free at a friend's place, since Feb 2.

He quit therapy when he filed, saying that he is "at peace" with this decision.
No discussion about "why" other than he said he "prefers shallow R and porn". Sexually. He would not discuss whether or not he was interested in a R that was anything more than that.

I have been GALing, 180ing, PMAing my butt off.

I see that my withdrawing has made him angry, there has been some nastiness towards me since I went darker.

I am confident. Independent. Won't stand for crap.
Maybe I'm overdoing it?

Honestly, I am enjoying my life.

I have stopped relying on him for anything.

This seems to have pushed him further away...


I don't want to be "friendly" if he is trying to CHEAT on me.
To me, we're still married and yes, it is cheating.

Clearly in his mind it "doesn't count."
But I guarantee that even if he believes that, he wouldn't be happy if I started "dating".

I have told him that I don't believe it is right to involve other people in our R until divorce.
He did not agree nor disagree.

MLC... What can I say?

-------------

Sorry. I am really foggy today. Probably not making much sense.


---GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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GG,
There are times when we pull away and continue to live our lives, the MLCer will get angry and distance themselves from us. It's part of the dance. The more you move forward, the more unhappier he will be and yes, distance himself. In order for him to get you to flit around the flame of his candle (like the little moth), he does the distancing, becomes angry and sometimes even lashing out. The way he knows to get your attention and have you contact him is to pull back. The situation is very much like the moth who is drawn to a candle in a dark place. What's happening your situation reminds me of the distance/pursuer dance.

If you have conversations w/him, be upbeat and friendly, but don't share too much of your life w/him. Keep the conversations on your animals, bills, etc. You want to be a tad mysterious about your life and the only way to do that is not share too much of it w/him.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks for clarifying that for me, job.

I was thinking that my distancing was backfiring because I thought if it was "working" (whatever THAT means) that his response would be to pursue.

I thought maybe he was an exception, with self-esteem so low and so much damage done that he'd rather just throw in the towel than make the effort.


It's hard for me to get an accurate read on this via his behavior.

The Viagra and online dating profile certainly don't point to him even considering moving closer to me at any point.

I know he'll do what he'll do, but I FEAR (there's that word) that by being so "one foot out the door" in my GALing that he just figured he'd shop elsewhere.


In DB/DR I thought Michelle said that after several weeks I should begin to see if my efforts are being noticed or making an impact with him one way or the other.
-------------------------------------

So I'll stick with very pleasant "need to know", keeping to the phone rather than text, let him initiate most of that unless I have a legit reason.


I will be "around" when he's here, but will not seek him out.
He will be able to see me, but he'll have to make the first move to chat, per above.


I will continue to use his LL, "Acts of Service" and "Words of Affirmation". He also likes gifts but I'm not comfortable with that.

(I did get him a nice cigar in VA, didn't give it to him. I'm waiting for the right moment if one arises. If I do give it to him, I'll just leave it in his truck or something so he doesn't have to thank me or acknowledge it. And only in response to some positive actions from him. Or I'll smoke it myself!)
--------------------------------

I have gotten excellent advice from the vets on here and I don't want anyone to think I'm ignoring it!

I just was unclear on whether he was one that needed a little more encouragement. You know, "Don't Spook the Squirrel"!!! smile


I am a very dynamic woman, happy, busy, involved in lots of things, with lots of friends.

My mother has suggested that all this intimidates the hell out of him.
On the one hand, he is proud of me, used to love to trot me out to his corporate superiors... Yet....

These days he prefers to have sex with and associate with people he can feel superior to. He's said so about the former, and his consistent actions prove the latter, going on three years now.

I can't change myself---WON'T change myself---to be less than who I am so he feels better about himself.

I am not a hard woman, nor a controlling one. I can work harder on validating him, etc., but at some point it's disingenuous for me to put myself below him, where it seems comfortable for him.

I want an equal partner.

And he seems to want a sycophant.

----GGG

(Definitely rambling now... Sorry...)


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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I was reading somewhere (it was on the internet, so it must be true, right?) that divorce courts are littered with people that "changed" suddenly from what they were to something new. And that they tend to regret their choices later on in life, often long after its too late.

I'm not so sure that's the case here. Sometimes the changes occur and they realize quicker. Before its too late.

For your sake, stop trying to pulse check and see what happens. This isn't about you, so the actions you take won't, however normal they are in similar situations, be absorbed the same way. He needs to figure himself out, and you don't need to get caught in the collateral damage.

When you go dark, do so for you. Not for a reaction or a different action from him. Do so because you can't interact if that's the case. Detach from the outcome and live your life. He'll come back if that's what he's going to do.

You know what you want. That's a good thing. Keep working on that self-awareness. It's important.

Hang in there, GGG.

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Hey GG,
Those mysterious appointments? Could he be getting testosterone replacement therapy? It's all the rage these days with clinics opening up everywhere. I had it due to an accident I had many years ago and my levels were VERY low. But those clinics sell it as a magic "youth" serum for the older male! Sounds like that would be right up his ally if his dating site postings are any indication. Just a thought. (By the way, I stopped due to no longer being able to afford it now that W has left. It really makes a difference when you actually need it!).

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