"Speak Softly": The Amoeba Whisperer!

[GoatGal]

Update: I think I was right about my gut.

H called back, we had the longest phone convo we've had (other than upsetting/R angst) since OW discovery!

Granted, all we did was talk about the car (he's a mechanic and asking for his expert opinion doesn't hurt) but then we laughed and chatted about my event (crazy schedule) our "kids" and some odds and ends.

We promised to talk again tomorrow...

It felt good. After I hung up I had the distinct feeling that this man does indeed love me...he's just terrified of what he's done, what he's going through.

He's lonely and he's a mess.

As Cadet posted awhile back, I need to be more of a lighthouse, shining my light consistently for him to have hope and know the good and safe course to take.

I think I was turning my light off---and he didn't know I was still there, shining as strongly as ever.

It's a fine line between letting him know that I'm still there, letting him know I won't be forever, and enforcing my boundaries with actions.

He hasn't crossed my boundaries; he doesn't know that I know about the dating profile... Gross, yes, but may just be a lonely man's fantasy and all the rest of the MLC stuff. If he doesn't actually ACT on it, I guess it's just sort of pathetic.

As my friend said last night: "Guess he's really striking out in the real world. I mean, it's not like he can't get out there and meet people, right?"

But he can't. He doesn't go anywhere or do anything to meet people naturally.

Oh well. Gotta go throw down some serious swing music!

----GGG

[ForeverYoung]

We promised to talk again tomorrow...

It felt good.

Having a connection is required if you are ever going to have a renewed M. So as long as the talks are working for you, keep it up.

Oh, and of course H still loves you. This crisis was never about you or the M.

[GoatGal]

Thanks ForeverYoung.

That made me feel better this morning.

I think going dark was a necessity for my detaching and I still feel pretty detached even now. I was annoyed and a bit obsessive about the online dating profile he posted and almost all of what he wrote in it; but the difference is that I didn't get angry or emotionally upset.

I just kept running it around in my head like a puzzle, looking for clues.

I also realized that I pretty much have been outright rejecting him when I pulled back; avoiding him in person, conversations very brief, no comm except if he asks a direct question.

I did it for me because I needed some space to sort out my emotions, but it seems to have had the effect of negating most of the closeness we'd developed.

I wanted him to see what life would be like without me and I got a few answers as to how he feels about that.

He wants to be in a R.
He thinks I'm done with him.
He thinks I am moving away. (Only if we divorce, so he has control over that of which he might not be aware.)
He is "trying not to bother me" since now he really has no right to act to buddy-buddy.
(Based on prior incidents where me avoiding him made him politely offer to "come home later" so I wouldn't have to see him bc i'd already be in my room. )

I said awful things to him since dDay.

No doubt he thinks I hate him, and some days that's true.

So----------

I have to be friendlier and more available, just make 100% sure it can not be construed as pursuit.

But if neither of us makes steps to come closer, we'll end up at a standstill.

I'll hold my line at crossing my boundaries.
But it's hard to get around the sense that I' using going dark as a punishment for things he does, when it's mostly because I disgusted and don't want to look at or talk to him.

So I'll keep busting on....

---GGG

PS: Last night was GAL heaven. My DJ sets went great, lots of ego boosts during the dances, and the boy-toys were left on the dance floor where they belong.

[AJM]

But it's hard to get around the sense that I' using going dark as a punishment for things he does, when it's mostly because I disgusted and don't want to look at or talk to him.

"Mostly"? You're talking about an overly sensitive person that has hurt you, is punishing himself already, and may very easily be punishing himself more than you ever could. If you tried. A man who can "feel" what's going on between you on top of whatever is going on with himself.

What does "mostly" mean to you? What might it mean to somebody who amplifies everything as it is?

Oh, and of course H still loves you. This crisis was never about you or the M.

Yep. Try not to forget that bit. No matter what he's done or says, what was between you was real. You can't just walk away from that untouched, no matter how you make it look or how alien you might have become. You may give yourself permission to walk away. To cheat. To lie. To blame. But in the end, the lying, anger, etc? That's not about your spouse and somewhere deep down you know that.

If you're an MLCr, you will end up processing that for a very long time. On the outside, things may appear serene, happy, etc, but inside... well, you have seen how these things really are.

Re-examine that bit about "mostly" and see what's left to deal with there. You do not need to be holding on to that kind of stuff if you're going to be a lighthouse. It'll just darken your light. Or at least dim it.
AJ

[GoatGal]

AJM,

I appreciate your response but I'm not sure I completely understand it.

(Hey, I'm sleep deprived so at this point a lot is going over my head.)

But I'll try to answer what I think you're asking.

I say I "mostly" I avoid him because it's hard to be around someone who is doing the things he's going.
He is doing things which are hurtful to me, he's made decisions and taken actions which I cannot respect.
I can't always be upbeat around him because of this.
I find myself less angry and hurt by him these days, yet more annoyed and disgusted by his behavior.

I have trouble accepting his utter lack of integrity, loyalty, care and concern for us which is minimal at best, if he "feels like it."

I don't have people in my life who act like he does. I have no need for them.
He's not likeable, he lies constantly, he is like a pod-person.

I can't stand being around that except for short bursts.

So that's "mostly". The other part is that I am just happier on my own without having to deal with his "issues" and walk on eggshells around him.

Being out of his target range has helped me detach dramatically.
I can focus on myself and my own happiness.

But I do not like this man he's become. I don't want him, I don't need him.
He is the only person in my life who treats me like something he's been trying really hard to scrape off his shoe.

Somebody tell me why I need that?


If I believed that he would forever be this way, I'd be gone in a flash.
Many times I've thought I was DONE.
Then I see just a little glimmer of the old H, like when we talked on the phone.

I KNOW he loves me. I know he always did. I did nothing to drive him away...
It's hard to stand by and have him treat me as the enemy, blaming me, actively trying to replace me with some ridiculous fantasy rather than deal head on with his issues.
It hurts that after almost 30 years together he thinks so little of me that he took off his wedding ring, emailed me that he wanted to end our marriage, refused to discuss it or resolve it, and is embarrassing himself publicly be chasing women young enough to be his grandchildren, while telling me that I'm just not "attractive" to him.... and more.

------------------

So I know I missed what you were getting at, maybe you can help me by clarifying a bit?

I am grateful you took the time to post on my thread. Sorry if I'm a bit dense at the moment.

---GGG

[Matt165]

Hi GG,
Don't have any advice but I just wanted to say that your H sounds much like my W. All the things you stated he has done, taking off ring, wanting to end the M, refusing to discuss or resolve it, saying I'm just not "attractive" to her anymore, are the exact same things my W has done. As I have gone dark since she left, I've noticed that she seems to be angry at me over that. They say that is what they want (us out of their lives) but when you do go dark, it's almost like they get upset over it.

I, too, have wondered why do I want someone (the ONLY person) in my life who acts like I'm something they want to scrape off the bottom of their shoe! I keep hoping that it's true that somewhere deep down she still does love me. I did nothing to drive her away, we were together for 25 years. I know this isn't about me, it's about her and what SHE is going through but what if she never comes out of her tunnel? She is the kind of person who is VERY sensitive and I have doubts that she will ever be able to face up to what she has done to us and her family.

Right now she is getting her new house together and that allows her a distraction from having to deal with anything. But as my D19 says, what is going to happen once the newness and excitement of that wears off? What is going to happen when she is alone and realizes that she got what she wants and she is still not "happy"? In the mean time, the difference between not pursuing and "going dark" is a hard distinction to make. Does she get angry because I go totally dark between picking up and dropping off D14? Even when I do talk to her (the little I have) all she ever wants to talk about is her. I can't remember the last time she bothered to ask about anything going on in my life. They are just so self absorbed.

Since filing for D, she hasn't done anything to keep it moving forward. My L has called asking if we have come to any agreements (the initial filing is full of "Parties will come to agreement over this section") and, no, we haven't because I don't want the D, and she won't talk to me about those things so I don't bring them up! She was so keen on getting a D she filed before she even moved out of the house. Now she hasn't once talked about coming to agreement so it can move forward. Is this her way of holding off or is she just too busy or is it something else entirely ?

I guess I'm just saying I know where you're at. It [censored] that we are so beholden to people who are just so damaged at the moment. Who can't seem to remember the past or have the guts to get what they seem to be looking for from the person who they have right in front of them. That we know that inside of them is the person who they used to be and we can't believe they would rather be the hurtful, deranged acting person who they have become. Who would want to be that person? Can you imagine if you had told your H 10 years ago that he would be posting on that dating site what he has? What would he have said about that then? What would he have said about someone who posted what he has back then? I bet he would have laughed at them and said how sad they must be! This is why we still care about them. Because we hope that somewhere in their fevered MLC mind, that old person still lives, wanting to take back over!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the knowing that they still love us inside is as bad as it is good. It keeps us from totally giving up on them but at the same time we can never be sure if they can ever allow themselves to feel that love for us again. If they can't, all it has done is hold us back from moving forward in our lives.

Just some thoughts, GG.

[GoatGal]

Matt,

You described it perfectly.
The 20+ years, the decent person who suddenly decides we are the source of all their unhappiness.

My H seems to think he finally realized that his big mistake was that he "married the wrong person", and after six therapy sessions, came to the clear understanding that he finally needed to be "brave enough" to "rectify that mistake."

Thank you "THERAPY".

And yes, years ago he was on his high horse about this or that person who cheated---at WORK no less--*GASP*!!!--- and how pathetic and disgusting it was for middle-aged men to chase around females their daughters' ages while they had a lovely wife at home, his relationship with her the subject of envy.

"She's such a peach! He is so lucky...what the hell is he doing?"

Yup. I've heard it.
And now they're saying these things about him. He doesn't even see himself as the creepy 60--something hitting on his young employees.

In his mind, HE is not like "THOSE guys".

I guess that's how they all feel inside. It is totally inappropriate, yes. But not for THEM. Somehow their circumstances are special.

"Yes, I know you're attractive and everyone seems to love you. But I just don't feel that way and I don't remember ever feeling "in love/attracted to/happy with you." "I married you because I'm a 'caretaker' (CO-DEPENDENT!!) and you were too needy to leave. And I'm so loyal and devoted, I stayed with you all these (miserable) years because I didn't want to hurt you and you needed me so much."
"But I've given you EVERYTHING. Now it's time for me to be happy. I've sacrificed all these years to you out of duty, but I'm tired and I want time for me."

"And no, the fact that I really started to feel this way about you when I started boffing OW has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings. She was not a cause, just a symptom. I've always felt this way about you."


I'll agree with one thing. OW was not a 'cause'.
MLC was!!!!


But seriously? Needy and dependent are two words never attached to my name.
And I know I'm fun and warm hearted and attractive. I don't need his validation for that either.

You so right, Matt. If I told him he'd ever be acting this way he would have said I was nuts.

As it stands, many of our friends have tried to "talk sense into him" when they saw the divorce notice in the paper. Mostly buddies his same age who made stupid mistakes themselves and totally regret it.

Well, he doesn't hang out with his friends anymore, and when I run into them they tell me he won't even return their calls.

Hmmmm. Probably because he KNOWS he'll get an earful of REALITY CHECK and he doesn't want to hear it!

These are the same guys over the years who have consistently said:
"Dude!! What did you ever do to deserve GG? She's so much younger, adorable, such a sweetheart.."

His reply now?
"Well, they don't know how horrible it is to live with you."

I guess when I'm asleep I turn into a werewolf or something.

I just have to keep laughing at this for the farce it is.

To do otherwise would be to allow that crazy little worm into my brain...


----GGG

[AJM]

GGG, I was just trying to help clarify your thoughts.

So I know I missed what you were getting at, maybe you can help me by clarifying a bit?

.

What caught my attention was the part where you may be trying to punish him. You said it was "mostly" because.

It's been my experience when we do things for ourselves and not as a reaction to somebody else's behavior, we don't "mostly" do them nor do we explain them or get anxious about them or how they may affect that somebody else.

It may be that you don't think he sees it or feels it. He does. He's incredibly sensitive and can pick up on all kinds of things.

That's all. Just trying to help you see that you may be trying to "get back" at him for his actions. I don't blame you but it may not be very helpful to you.

AJ

[ForeverYoung]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the knowing that they still love us inside is as bad as it is good. It keeps us from totally giving up on them but at the same time we can never be sure if they can ever allow themselves to feel that love for us again. If they can't, all it has done is hold us back from moving forward in our lives.

Good post, Matt.

I wanted to comment on the part I bolded. We should be doing everything we want to do in life. Enjoying every day and following our dreams. Our spouses cannot hold us back from moving forward unless we allow them to.

Yeah, they pulled the rug out from under us and handed us a raw deal. But it's still up to us how we let it affect us, and what we do with it.

Sometimes, I even think this whole MLC trip is kinda exciting. Nothing boring about it, that's for sure!

[GoatGal]

Thanks FY and AJM,

I see now I was not clear in my earlier post which was the cause for confusion.

To clarify: I do not retreat or go dark on H to "punish" him.
I often feel the need to put some space between us when I am feeling upset; either because of something he's done, or because of things I'm working out on my own, or because I'm enjoying what I'm doing and don't want to give him the opportunity to ruin it.

Sometimes I just don't want to see him!

I mean, it's not like he's pleasant to be around, is treating me well, being honest, or doing any of the things people do that draw others to them.

Sometimes I'm not at my best, feeling low, and I just don't have it in me to put on that happy face.

I don't want it to come off as punishment; it's not. More like self-preservation and avoiding unpleasant feelings.

We spoke on the phone several times now, that seems good. Feels good.

He has another "mystery appointment" again tomorrow and I am trying hard not to snoop...

He was ANGRY with me after serious NC when I left for my trip.
He did very little here in my absence (unusual) and I had to take out the trash.
Right on top was the note I'd left him with instructions for the pups.

On it, he'd written some nasty comments:
Re: picking up dog food "Go get some your damn self!"
Among other tidbits.
Silly because he always gets the dog food. My days of throwing around 60 pound bags are over....

Anyhow. The note and his snarky comments was in the trash, he went and got dog food. Guess he knew he was being an a-hole.

He clearly is pissed at me having too much fun (true!) while he is lonely and not getting laid by all the babes as planned now that he's "on the market."

Surprise!!!!

Anyhow. The upside is we're talking again.
We'll see what this week brings.

I will be more available, more friendly, more sexy, stopping well short of pursuit or impersonating a doormat!

I had a great weekend. Being home is a mixed blessing.

Goodnight, DBers, wherever you may be this evening...

----GGG