completely lost part 2

[watto14]

I think my last post is locked, so i'm starting a new post.

it was a night with very little sleep last night, much thinking, journaling, etc

this is what I know. I know that h and I have been s since march this year, he said at the time, ILYNILWY, that he was done with the m, then was willing to work on m, he moved into his own place may this year, all was ok for a small time, then became distant, claims he needed time to think, I did all the wrong things, then found db, and have trying to follow the ideas.
h dropped second b two weeks ago, asked me to let him go.
then last night dropped third b, he has been seeing ow for four weeks (same w he had brief a with nov last year) and he would like to see where it goes with her.

I have lots of questions for the vets out there, and anyone else who wants to chime in, I am fully expecting 2x4's
where do I go form here, I still want to fight for my m, but how do I go about it since he living seperatly to me and is now involving himself in another r

[25yearsmlc]

I think my last post is locked, so i'm starting a new post.

it was a night with very little sleep last night, much thinking, journaling, etc

this is what I know. I know that h and I have been s since march this year, he said at the time, ILYNILWY, that he was done with the m, then was willing to work on m, he moved into his own place may this year, all was ok for a small time, then became distant, claims he needed time to think, I did all the wrong things, then found db, and have trying to follow the ideas.
h dropped second b two weeks ago, asked me to let him go.


then last night dropped third b, he has been seeing ow for four weeks (same w he had brief a with nov last year) and he would like to see where it goes with her.

I have lots of questions for the vets out there, and anyone else who wants to chime in, I am fully expecting 2x4's
where do I go form here, I still want to fight for my m, but how do I go about it since he living seperatly to me and is now involving himself in another r

I'm not very familiar with this scenario. Meaning, your h is in a r with OW from the past, when he had an affair with her, and that was his second infidelity and that was while you were "actively" married.

I say the phrase "actively married" b/c there is some debate about what is an "affair" while separated. Though most LBSers here will vigorously argue that an "affair is an affair!", what matters more is how the other spouse sees it.

For most WAS's, it seems that being separated is usually a signal (and in their eyes, you are on notice) that the marriage is ending and that the divorce being finalized - is a mere formality.

Regardless of how that pans out, here is what we can see.

We can see that your h is telling you by his actions, that he is

unable to be faithful to you, OR faithful to you as you are,

and or, incapable of being faithful to anyone. He wants to explore the R he began with OW earlier, to see where it goes. He wants you to be his back up plan although rather than telling you that out loud, b/c it's too blatantly self serving, he's telling you to "let him go" -
while also silently patting himself on the back & to "keep protecting you".

And btw, I DO think he meant that keeping the truth from you was somehow "protective" of him. I can't see another interpretation & when he asked you if that was what you wanted, imo, he was seeking permission to keep hiding things from you. At some level, down deep, don't you think maybe you know this??

I only know one thing for sure to suggest; do something different than you've been doing b/c none of that has worked.

Here are some ideas...

Let him worry about losing you. For real. Stop being so available, do NOT say "ILY" or "always will" or any of that. Really DO end the conversations first, and around him, really do stay optimistic but vague about your plans and activities.

Fearing the loss of you, will not happen if you don't also become the woman you were meant to become, to-wit, a woman only a fool would leave.

That means you must stop showing him all the anxiety b/c it really does NOT help you and it really does NOT protect you and yet it really does increase the risk of the things you fear happening, actually happening...do you get my point here?)

So please, lose that anxiety (at least around him) and be detached but upbeat a lot more. Also I'm not sure if I mentioned this to you before, but I suggest you watch the videos on the TED Talks from 2012, from Amy Cuddy and Shawn Achor. One is about "Faking it til you Become it", and Positive Psychology, respectively. They're not long films and they'll both help you a lot with starting to think in a new way, a way that changes how you feel and behave.

Also, start imagining life without him, but with you being happy... and just do this for 5 minutes.

But really do it. Like imagine he's passed away and that you have grieved the loss but did not curl up in a fetal position forever...(b/c you would not do that, right? I mean at some point you would get out of bed and model a recovery for your kids, right?

Never forget these two things: 1) you children are watching you AND they will remember how you write these chapters of your life; and 2) someday each of your children will face a betrayal or setback that deeply wounds them. You want them to be able to recall YOUR Choices now, so that they'll make similar choices and not wallow or fall apart or become bitter and despairing.

SO now, since you know you'd eventually pick yourself up and dust yourself off, imagine that has happened and you have moved forward...what are you doing in your new life that makes you happy?

Are you traveling more, commuting a shorter/longer distance, taking classes, learning a new language, getting a different job, going back to school, taking up a new hobby, moving, where are you living?

Are you pursuing the body building more? FLESH OUT THIS VISION...

and really figure out what you'd most likely be doing, if you were single but happy. Okay...(I'm waiting for you to think this out...INSERT Jeopardy music...)

Alright now, All Done? Okay so...

now, figure out what of those^^^ things you can do, this week.

Hang in there!

[watto14]

as always 25, you are fantastic with the word.

I think you would have been almost impressed at the way I handled myself in front of h last night, when he started talking I didn't interrupt(I usually do, especialy when i'm nervous or anxious, I listened to him tell me that he'd been seeing her for four weeks, about the time we stopped being intimate, which he said he stopped with me because it wasn't fair to me, and yes, I know its all lip service.

I didn't ask detailed questions about their r, only the ones that I thought were important to know, such the times that i'd rung for the boys to say goodnight, and he hadn't answered, if he'd been with her, he said yes, a couple of times he had been,
I did request that if I ring at the arranged time that he answer, either leave the room, or move away, I didn't think this was unreasonable. and the only other time that I was forceful ,was when he said he'd like her to meet our boys, I was adamant with my refusal, they are too young, we have only been officially living apart for a couple of months, that if he's still seeing her in 6 months or more, then we'd re visit.

I'm only just getting to know them myself, and I can't bear the idea of someone else coming into their lives in such an influential role.
there are days where I feel like such a complete failure, can't keep my m together, can't be a good mum, can't manage my finances.

as far as the anxiety goes, I showed none last night, I waited until I got home to fall apart and wail, wring my hands etc.

I feel h and I are so entangled still, regarding the boys, finances.

I want to stand on my own two feet, for the first time in my 39 years, I want to be able to say I did that and be proud of myself.

yes, I still want to be m to my husband, or start a new r with him.

I am going to start reading dr again, beginners mindset.

tomorrow I will pick the boys up from h and drop them at daycare.
I will get myself a hot cohoclate, I will order stock so I can work to earn money to support myself and my boys.
I will go and look at more houses, there will be the perfect house for us out there.
I will eat well because I have to look after me so can be well for myself and our boys.
I will write down all the money I owe for bills etc, and if I can't do it on my own, I will seek out someone who can help me(not h)
I will strive every day to become the woman that a man would be a fool to leave.

[Eatsma]

Oh Watto--Your list for yourself is awesome.

You've got this.

[25yearsmlc]

as always 25, you are fantastic with the word.

I think you would have been almost impressed at the way I handled myself in front of h last night, when he started talking I didn't interrupt(I usually do, especialy when i'm nervous or anxious, I listened to him tell me that he'd been seeing her for four weeks, about the time we stopped being intimate, which he said he stopped with me because it wasn't fair to me, and yes, I know its all lip service.

I think you did very well. Most people who just start DBing could not have handled this situation as smoothly or in an controlled a manner as you did,so BRAVO to you for that. It's called GROWTH! Good for you, really.



I didn't ask detailed questions about their r, only the ones that I thought were important to know, such the times that i'd rung for the boys to say goodnight, and he hadn't answered, if he'd been with her, he said yes, a couple of times he had been,

Think hard about this^^^ and whether some of it really is "important to know". Why was it "important"? To verify a sin and convict? To justify feeling anger?

I mean, please remember how little of this is within your control. When you begin to see how your focus has to be on things you CAN control, and how much work that itself takes, it'll be easier to let go of the things that you can't do much about anyhow, and why misspend your energy?

Why take on trouble that isn't yours to take on anyhow? Make sense?


I did request that if I ring at the arranged time that he answer, either leave the room, or move away, I didn't think this was unreasonable.

Again, ask yourself how much of that is about control....why not Just let him know you'll only call at agreed upon times?

Letting the kids call "whenever they want" sets you up for pain if he doesn't answer, so think about only calling at the agreed upon times...He can always call them extra, right?)

and the only other time that I was forceful ,was when he said he'd like her to meet our boys, I was adamant with my refusal, they are too young, we have only been officially living apart for a couple of months, that if he's still seeing her in 6 months or more, then we'd re visit.

Newsflash Watto...this^^ belief (That you can prevent or control how they meet OW) is common around here. But in the USA, once separated, there is almost nothing you can do to enforce your request. THINK ABOUT THAT...

If it is the same in your country (UK?), and I expect it is, then don't fall on your sword quite so fast and quite so hard, for an issue you have no power or control in, anyhow.

Your real fear is being replaced by OW and that's not a reasonable fear, is it? If so, ask yourself why. Are you super strict and critical of the kids? I mean, why would OW take your place? You do not have to compete with her.

But since there is a high chance they'll meet some OW anyhow, and you likely have no control over this, figure out how to prepare for when they do meet her or some other OW. Don't attach so many nightmare scenarios to this "event".

Maybe you can try to Imagine if you were dating OM and at some point you'd want to know how he is with your kids, right? Do you think you'd also wonder if he could "replace" your h? I doubt it. I think you'd just want to know that they all get along.

So just realize that your h wanting her to meet them, only means She is in HIS life, yes. Worst case scenario, She MAY replace you in HIS life, but she'll never replace you in your kids' lives. You'll always be their only mom.

And if she's a "nice enough" woman to your kids, be glad. Don't be insecure or resentful, be grateful she's not mean to them. It's much worse when that happens. And let's remember that they should not be put in the middle of this. IF and when they do meet her, you can't ask them to hate her or to "choose" you. There is no choice to make. Understood?



I'm only just getting to know them myself, and I can't bear the idea of someone else coming into their lives in such an influential role.

He's dating a woman, not marrying her, not just yet. IF she's "Daddy's girlfriend" I don't think that means she's in "Such an influential role"...at least not yet. Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow. That is your fearful anxiety talking now.


there are days where I feel like such a complete failure, can't keep my m together, can't be a good mum, can't manage my finances.

We have all been there^^^ and it is not a fun place to be. But we survived. You know, the "successful DBers" here are not necessarily the ones who restored their marriages.

They are the ones who saved themselves, and sometimes that meant saving their marriages. But it always means they themselves became better, more loving and happier people, regardless of the ultimate choices they and their spouses made about their marriage...
You can become the woman you were meant to become.

Oddly, this whole painful ordeal can be the catalyst for tremendous personal growth and a real awakening in us. MANY DB friends have told me that despite the pain of their marital crisis, it was worth it for them to "find themselves". I can see that possibility in you.


as far as the anxiety goes, I showed none last night, I waited until I got home to fall apart and wail, wring my hands etc.


Good for you. Soon the time spent wringing your hands, will lessen and ease up, if you let it. And stay on course with this b/c it is such a good start.


I feel h and I are so entangled still, regarding the boys, finances.

well you are entangled with kids and money issues. But that works itself out in time.

Oh, when it comes to finances, do Make sure you put the boys interest ahead of any pride issues (if they come up).
I say this b/c I knew a woman here who "refused any support" from her ex h, the father of her four kids. And she and the kids lived in squalor for the next decade, but she was so proud of how "independent" she was, and did not mention that she refused to allow her ex to see the kids and back then, she was sort of allowed to do that when the h didn't pay support, even if she turned it down!

Times have changed but the point I really wanted to make with her example was that it wasn't her money to refuse; it belonged to the kids. She could turn down alimony if she wanted to show HER independence from her h. Do you get my point? To be clear, I'm not suggesting you turn down anything, but I do think a visit to a lawyer would be smart for you.


Knowledge is power and it tends to lessen anxiety when we have specific answers and ways to address our fears. You need do nothing but gather information when you meet the L, you need not do anything like file for a separation or divorce. Just get some information so you are not operating in the dark about finances.

It'll make you feel more empowered and in control of more. Seriously, you need to make sure you know your rights. You do not need to tell your h this either.



I want to stand on my own two feet, for the first time in my 39 years, I want to be able to say I did that and be proud of myself.

I understand this^^^ and like I said, these ordeals can be catalysts for great personal growth and discovery and confidence.

yes, I still want to be m to my husband, or start a new r with him.

I am going to start reading dr again, beginners mindset.

Makes sense. Can you also call a lawyer (or solicitor?) there and get some information so you know your rights? You'll also be able to ask if you have any control over if and or when OW meets your kids.

tomorrow I will pick the boys up from h and drop them at daycare.
I will get myself a hot cohoclate, I will order stock so I can work to earn money to support myself and my boys.
I will go and look at more houses, there will be the perfect house for us out there.
I will eat well because I have to look after me so can be well for myself and our boys.
I will write down all the money I owe for bills etc, and if I can't do it on my own, I will seek out someone who can help me(not h)
I will strive every day to become the woman that a man would be a fool to leave.

That's the way to focus! Look at what you CAN do and what you CAN control and then implement it and DO it.

(Any specific GAL activities coming up? I hammer them b/c I know they help.)

Great work!!

[watto14]

ok, so today is a new day, last night I let myself cry, howl, feel sorry for myself, got angry with h and ow(swore a lot, good thing I was home by myself!)

this morning, I got up, told the universe what I want, had shower, curled my hair(because I can, because the boys aren't here to distract me!)

I put my big girl boots on, put music on really loud- I love P!nk
I got in my car, went to h house to pick up the twins for day care, I was cheerful, upbeat, and swinging my curls.
tried not to backslide as h seemed to be in and mood(follow on from his mood last night. mmmm, maybe it throws him off when Im not cranky??

dropped the boys off at day care, got myself a hot chocolate, rang h to let him know what is happening today at day care, asked him if we were alright(I know hit me with the 2x4 now)
he said of course, its just the boys being the boys stressing him out, validated(I completely understand-they are crazy!!)
hung up and then to get myself out of my own headspace, I rang up my best friend.

I ordered stock so I can work this afternoon, I'm looking at a house today before I start work, so all positive there, had to let h know about house as he is paying a portion of the rent, he said they're nice houses, he's seen the inside of a couple of them, felt like he's pushing me to move into something, feel like he's constantly pushing, but i'm letting that go through to the keeper for now.

I can do this, I am going to take each day as it comes, I am going to be the woman any man would be a fool to leave

[25yearsmlc]

keep on keeping on. Your growth won't be linear -- but it WILL continue if you nurture it. You will be happy again.

We are all pulling for you, so keep us posted!

[watto14]

Wooohoo, I've got a new house to move into, just have to organize the bond and when to move etc...

[bashy]

Great stuff watto... good luck!

[watto14]

I received a phone call from a potential client wanting to use gift vouchers, which had expired, as I like to do what I can to help, I said that I'd be happy to honor them as long as they were not too far past the expiration.
The client would only give me her first name, I have just found out that this "client" is actually the ow....I hate game players. grrr