Ready for some forum help

[NewB3]

Reading here for a while. My situation has become such that I now need advice .....here we go:
Started dating in early 2008. Married April 2010. Became best friends and had a very powerful connection/soul mates. Neither of us expected to feel so strongly for each other. Open, honest, completely trusting, great sex, great laughs and peaceful existance. In Feb of 2014 my wife dropped a bomb. No longer wants to be married, it is not for her. No longer feels the same about us. We do not fight, no OM/OW, just what I think is a lot of miscommunication and expectations. I have no reasons. She filed in May 2014. i answered by June 30th 2014. My answer was denying agreement and wrote judge a note asking for at minimum 12 therapy sessions from a neutral therapist. This, in order to reconcile or gain some closure.

There had been no attempts to reconcile, nor has she shared any of her discussions or thoughts about her therapy (going since Oct. 2013)

To date, she agreed to a few therapy session, via her attorney. We are on a waiting list for appointment. I am Pro se. She felt forced at my answer and really got "pissed" at me. I told her that this divorce would be detrimental to her, our children, and I. This is not the answer for us and we should try to work things out, instead of just sweeping it under the rug and quitting. Since this filing, we do not discuss future, our issues, we still are in same bed, same home, and have a 3.5 year old and during summer, my 10yr old from a previous marriage. She loves both kids very much. I have been in therapy with her old therapist since March 2014. I am attempting 180 since June 2014 and taking a stand since July 2014.

Our communication, as long as it is not about relationship is good.No sex, no "I love you", occasional hug, I touch her when talking. Listening more. Taking time to love the most. Wash my clothes seperate as I have for the past few years, and do not ask, but grab hers if room in the wash.I wash/dry and lay flat. I do not fold and put her stuff away. I make the bed if time permits. I keep my mess to a minimum. I smile, sing in the shower, dress nice and act "as if". I take care of the youngest some nights, giving her some "quiet time" Other nights we split the bath/bedtime routine.

We have issues when she get frustrated with busy child and her stay at home high stress job for an IT company. I work an hour away (where we met) and commute an hour each way.

I have stopped pursuit since may 2014. Since working on 180's I have seen changes back to her old ways. Not sure if this is positive...?
She asks who is texting when my phone goes off. She makes jokes with me. She takes showers and changes clothes in front of me. She offers to help with dinner. Makes plans on weekend for family time. Makes time for herself (in Feb. said she needed more down time/I took the kids out every Saturday and let her do whatever) I buy all groeries as I always have. Now buying her favorites without her asking when she runs out.

I am just trying to be more attentive and do more without saying anything. I love her and know that DB book and other books have helped, but I am starting to get confused. Denial? False hope? Is this working? HELP

[MrBond]

Okay, so what were the issues that she had about the M? I know you said there weren't any, but try and think. How old are you and your W? Put that in the signature line.

[NewB3]

We are both about 43. Issues. Shoving things under the rug after short discussions with little or no resolution. After our child was born....She knows sex is important and it became a series of scheduled "time". We have not done us time outside of that. This became more and more excuses as to why we should not have sex and I got flustered. Out of town time. No sex. Relax and enjoy each other, but finally after a few times of this I panicked. She then said we could have sex. I declined. That was a year ago. Since then it was maintenance. He job got stressful and child became more demanding of her time. We grew apart I guess. She also is very smart and only like to be told how to do something when she asks. Thus parenting I kept mum about and let her take care of baby. She will handle 110% of something and never ask for help. She used to do this at work and people took advantage of that. I told her I felt I had done this too. I have apologized for a lot as I have been soul searching and working on me. All in the last half of 2013. She never discussed any feelings about it. "Conceal don't feel". That is all I can gather as there has been no attempts to talk with a therapist with both of us.

[NewB3]

Never saw my reply, so I'll do one short and sweet. I would let my frustrations of no "us" time, non sexual, to take place. We were so busy with life and a new small child. Once it built up, I would get up in te middle of the night and write a letter to my wife. Telling her how badly I missed her.... We would discuss and said we would work at it.
We never went to therapy with her. She mentioned it after the baby was born, in passing. Something like I am thinking about going to therapy... Are you interested? I assumed she was going to find out what her issues with us might be. I was blind to the fact that she wanted us in therapy. My reply was simply.. If you feel you need to go, I think you should. Since bomb, I realized this and apologized. For lack understanding and writing those notes.
In my divorce answer I asked judge to sen us to at minimum 12 sessions. Instead of waiting, she had her attorney reply with agreeing to go to a few counseling sessions. Nothing was mentioned about closure or reconcile. I got on a waiting list with promise of a meet within 30days. She waited 10 and called yesterday to tell me she had an appointment for us. I had picked a female, thinking of my wife. Well, we ended up with a male that ruNs the practice. We go to our first in 10 days. I see no emotion from her most if the time. Lack of concern and then, out of the blue, signs that she wants me here. I have no reasons for her bomb other than what I mentioned above.

[NewB3]

Called wife last week and asked her to please not make this weird around the kids. She has been very cold and seemed resentful. She made us a therapy appointment in spite of me having us on a waiting list promising an appointment in the next 30 days. I had selected a woman and told her that I wanted to reconcile and wife did not. Wife had waited a week and then called a clinical psych office that has 10 people working. She said she wanted first available. We got a man( after research, he is head of that office and a professor/pjs at local college). We meet next Monday.
Weekend went good. Monday hits and the awkward goodbyes as I leave and take the kids to school. I get a have a good day at the door. Everyone else gets kisses and hugs.

[NewB3]

Still cooking fantastic dinners for the family. Gives me good lunches for the days after. I skip some days and we have leftovers. Wife said she liked the dinners and thanked me over the weekend meals. She Offered to clean the kitchen after meals this weekend. I have stopped picking up her snacks when grocery shopping unless she asks.
Considering telling therapist next week that I just want to work through the issues so we can have an amicable divorce. I really want to reconcile, but do not want the blowback. I got more "I still want to move forward " after the call to get her to be nicer last week.
Our stress comes during the week. Weekends are touch and go, but I can focus on gal with the kids and let her be. I took them most of this weekend giving her time to do what she wanted. She has asked for more time to herself since bd day. That is what she needs among other things. Her stress and depression is so obvious. I am working on being happy, excercising, focusing on helping out more. Not doing it all, but she sees and then she helps out. Recommendations? I have 2 boys at home that know nothing. Wife and I sleep in same bed and try to keep things light, but the elephant in the room..... Lost in 180/don't want her to give up bc I seem to be. I just 180/detaching. I read that another member here had his wife do the same thing. In therapy she said he seem to be pulling away and shutting down so she did the same. How do I avoid that?

[NewB3]

Emotional abandonment is what I am getting. After reading I see that we both have fear of talking through issues. I have been living in denial. Not hearing she wants a divorce and working the best I can on 180. I am having a bad day and need some answers from the vets here. I am still on moderation, but needing to be patient in your process. Frustrated and do not know where to turn.

[NewB3]

At the beginning of the weekend Friday things are usually okay once I get home and we have dinner. Friday is usually pizza. I wasn't feeling well Friday night so I was kind of quiet. We eat a big table right next to the kitchen and after eight spent quite a bit of time just the kitchen while others ate. I wasn't feeling well and all kind of sick. I excuse myself went to the computer to see what my illness could be. I think she thought I was emotionally checking out. She was starting to be very talkative but did me in the kitchen and said are you just going to hang out the kitchen tonight. Trying to be happy doing 180 I said no I'm just not feeling real well. She did not inquire as to what might be my problem. I just made a mental note of that it's an interesting dynamic when she's emotionally checked out but then sees that I might be she comes back how is that?

[NewB3]

Looking for wonka, mr. Bond, and any other vets that can help. I am an open book. I am seeking your wisdom.

[NewB3]

Reading through the forum. I think having 2 kids at the house and always (mostly) taking them to do things on the weekend, and hanging around the house during the week is not GAL enough. Maybe I need to leave her with them, but my 10yr old from my first marriage wants to hang with dad. I need to get out by myself, but he will not be here much longer, since school starts. Thoughts?

[NewB3]

Worked local today and spent the rest with my 10yr S. We just went shopping and at lunch he asked about W. He called and asked if we could bring her lunch. She asked to speak to me. Asked if I would mind...took her order and we went to eat. She got hers an hour later. After lunch we quickly left, she works from home. She made a movie suggestion, we said no and did our own thing. As soon as we returned...W " where did you guys go, what did you do?" Gave the...hit a few stores and then went to chiropractor for missed appt......groceries. She did not follow up, but usually asks if I bought anything. Really trying to play it cool, but I rarely, if ever, any more ask her anything. Last time she went shopping and bought some things, but did not offer to show me her clothing finds. I did not ask. I do still, as I always have....complement her clothing, hair, thoughtfulness, kindness, etc. these days, I pick something every few days and make no big deal of it. Quick off the cuff compliments. Just barely doing some of the things she liked about me in the beginning, that I have always done. Trying to detach. She had her therapy last night. As she was leaving, I told her to have fun, as she did me last time...she smiled and said..."I'll try"

[Cristy]

Hi, I am sorry for the situation you are in. You mentioned you are scheduled to speak with a therapist. Is this as a couple? Please watch this video from Michele regarding When Couples Therapy is a Bad Idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXTMw85jpks&feature=youtu.be

Are you speaking to a DB coach? They are experts in helping you decide what you should and should not say and what will bring her closer. I would be happy to give you more info.

Take care,
Cristy


Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[sandi2]

Have you read through Divorce Remedy? If so, what have you applied to your stitch?

[NewB3]

Cristy, I have watched all her utoob videos, then bought and read the books.
Sandi2,
I have taken stock and know what I want. I have set some goals with my therapist and met them, but do backslide at times. I journal, and DB is what I am currently trying to work.180's, while living at home, with my best friend(W) and two kids that know nothing. Juggling everyday things with this elephant in the room that only W and I can see.

[NewB3]

Sandi2 also trying to make sure to follow the 37 rules.

[NewB3]

I am on moderation, so I will just post here as needed and try to check back. I really want to be part of this conversation without having to wait. Yes, patients....I know, but I need to be able to have this conversation without such long delays. I need advice and support.
I can only read here at lunch and later at night while family is not around. As far as DR and DB books, I have had to resort to the same. I would love to be able to read whenever, but that is not happening.

[MrBond]

So how much of DB and DR have you actually read?

[sandi2]

You have to make several posts before getting off moderation, if I understand correctly. The fewer you post, the slower the process.

So, what have you applied to your stitch?

[Eatsma]

NewB - Hang in there. Moderation will pass....Patience is so hard for those of us going through this!

The only bit of advice that I have for you is to really be patient. This is a marathon, not a sprint, and getting to the end takes way, way longer than you want it to. If you had told me 8 months ago that I'd still be in this boat, I would have been horrified. Well...it's horrifying all right, but somehow my coping skills are getting better and I'm learning how to take care of myself.

That's the shift you really want to see...when you realize that you've started working on YOU and you're no longer focusing on seeing changes in your WAW.

Divorce Remedy changed my life. I'm serious. That book made SO MUCH SENSE to me and my situation. And since being able to read the whole thing and figure out how to use the techniques, my attitude towards me is changing. I'm taking care of me. H and I are no longer having the same conversations over and over again. (You know the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.) And, I'm finally accepting that in MLC, there's nothing I can do to change his journey. Not. One. Thing. So I'm standing and watching. I have some boundaries that work for me. And if he changes, then I can re-evaluate my boundaries.

Hang in there...both on this board (which is awesome) and in your journey. And read the books! They really are game changers. Just keep in mind that the game is really, really long! LOL

[BigMac]

MLP nailed it. There is nothing you can do to change the pace of their journey. Patience is hard for all of us. Be consistent, do your 180's. GAL and keep a PMA.

You'll get through this

[NewB3]

I have read both DR and DB. I have kids at home and can only read late at night when the older child goes to bed. I can do that and/or get on this forum. I drive one hour to work each way.
Trying to detach....doing 180's. I have specific things that happen at times that I want some feedback for.
GAL is hard with all my time being used. However, I do workout at night. Have lost 30lbs. Since December. ( yes started diet prior to BD) feel good, look good, wear cologne sometimes.( used to wear when we first met, only for her on dates)

Goals
Attend couples therapy ( took replying to D papers with a letter to courts) she agreed prior to court answer (in good faith) for a few sessions, I had asked for a neutral therapist with 12 or more sessions for reconcile and/or closure (accomplished)
Detach (working on it)
Follow sandi2 rules (accomplishing daily)
Stay focused on what I want and stay positive ( accomplished daily)
Take of my family and their needs too, includes wife (daily)
Being a better person, positive, supportive, friendly. (Daily)

Very nervous about Monday therapy appointment. I know when I say reconcile, she will get mad. Too bad, I am doing this for my child and me. This is what I want for us. Our sitch is bad right now, but there is something there and always has been. More than friends.

[NewB3]

That take care of wifes needs above...that is NOT a backslide. I simply treat her no different ..."as if" I just , as part of 180 do more around the house. I make no mention of those things. I ask for nothing in return. She does offer as of late.
She also asks almost daily now, what my plans are for the day/about work, after work...any plans for rest of week. Etc. should something come up...friends in town, I tell her the day of once I decide what I want to do. Right now, that includes taking the 10year old with. No big deal.
What can I do, other than above, to make the PorD dynamic more obvious to her? I rarely slip on the non pursuit, but also want to be compassionate and caring as to not appear checked out. Detach is a balancing act when you live in the same home.

[Eatsma]

NewB3

I'm glad you've found time to read the books. I only read them and refer to them when H is out of town, otherwise they're tucked away where prying eyes can't see them. So - I get it! This forum is also a great resource!


I think you've made good goals, but I wouldn't get too many hopes up for couples therapy. It may be great for you, but if she's not invested in it, it may not be worth your time right now. Individual counseling is maybe more important. Just my .02.

Hang in there! I think you're doing really well!

[NewB3]

I think couples therapy will be good. Just not the first 2 visits. I feel that getting some of her reasons on the table may open up communication. She feels te way she feels for some reason. I just have no specifics. Just vague stuff and shoving under the rug. By getting to the reasons, I will have a chance with a phd. Therapist to get some answers to what I feel are missed expectations on both sides. Communication issues from two over tired parents that are both trying to work full time and making assumptions.

[Eatsma]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

Couples therapy would NOT have worked in my situation because of MLC crazy. When my situation started my H was in the middle of rewriting our history (which was really, really bizarre) and forging a new "friendship" with OW.

But - your situation is probably really different! I hope it works well for you guys!

[NewB3]

Reading here...I have a moment. Can I have some vets chime in? I need some hard, honest, blunt advice on my sitch and what I need to keep doing or be doing more of. Please

[MrBond]

Reading through your sitch, it's hard to figure out where you need help. You say that there really hasn't been any reason for your W to leave which makes it hard to pinpoint problems.

We need more information . What were things that your W complained about in the past? Even if it's a small comment, write it down here. We need to hear about the WORST things that came up in your relationship.

How are your interactions now?

[NewB3]

Mr. Bond, may I call you james?
Wife is an introverted over thinker. I had no complaints really, that I can recall...thus my grasping at any little thing to understand. My therapist said it is like a blindfolded drunk man playing darts...trying any direction any method to get the target.
Interactions now, other than the call to her last week to be present and that she was being cold? Now things are fine. No R talk, no physical anything. I do not call on the way home as I have since day one. Stopped that last week. This was the last thing on my 180 list. Something I used to do and no longer do. She has to ask if she wants to know something. I listen twice as much as I talk. I am pleasant and secretly in love
I do give her compliments, as I always have, but limit it to only ONE per day. I do not go for hugs, but do touch and smile a lot. Hope that explains it. I am pouring it all out on the table here. Thanks

[MrBond]

"Wife is an introverted over thinker. I had no complaints really, that I can recall...thus my grasping at any little thing to understand."

I wasn't asking about YOUR complaints. I was asking about hers. There must have been something that she complained about. Even if they were small comments here and there. To her they were probably big issues but was too afraid to bring them up for whatever reason.

[NewB3]

No complaints here, that is the same thing she would tell you. Recently, she did get mad....first time I have ever seen her mad, and it was at me. Says I do not listen to what she is saying. That I do not hear her. She does not want to be married anymore, she loves me, but not like she used to.

[MrBond]

"No complaints here, that is the same thing she would tell you."

That is mindreading. Obviously there is something wrong. ALL marriages have some kind of conflict. Are you honestly telling me that you and your W NEVER had any disagreements? That doesn't sound right at all.

[NewB3]

That's just it I think the only thing we have argued about is her lack of interest in sex. As I mentioned before it was not a big issue but it kept on and on and we discussed it and she was having some physical problems. She knows the importance of love and sex in a marriage and was very understanding so for me she said let's schedule this. That works great for a while and we were both happy however overtime things were shoved under the rug and it became mechanical and routine. We had a very passionate relationship in the beginning all the way up until our child was born and even a little after that. She cared for me like no other woman and I cared for her like no other man. At least that's what I understood. Because there is no honest and open communications about any other issues I'm completely unaware and therefore when I was blindsided with this divorce process I am at a loss. I really dug deep in thought about things I may have done wrong and apologize for them as little as they might be. I come up with a list of six maybe eight things that I had done over our complete relationship that may have caused her to feel this way. I wrote them down wrote down my answer to how I really felt about it and I read this to her and waited to answer questions. There were no questions the only thing I was told was thanks for sharing I appreciate that. Or I would get thank you for saying that. You see I have apologized for things and shown her through actions that I am working on being a better person. I have not said anything to her about our relationship as I'm not supposed to but she has never wants out right offered anything to help me understand why she wants this divorce. As far as mind reading the reason I gave you the answer I did above is because she has told me that about herself from the beginning so I was simply repeating that she is introverted and thinks too much. I hope this gives you some answers so that you can help me I really don't know what else to say.

[NewB3]

Racking my brain here. I do remember one thing that was mentioned this was post bomb drop. Her parents once they were told by her that she wanted to divorce were very upset the day she was going to the attorney her mother called and he's been up all night and she was talked out of it. Come to find out she was just talked out of going to talk to an attorney about what the process would be. She put it off for about a month and a half that's when she went divorce trap.
She shared with me that she was going to put things on hold after talking to her mom that day in March. And that she just needed more time for herself. She needed to get out of the house and be able to go do things. I told her that was not a problem and immediately sprung into action it is been that way ever since she has more free time to go shopping to get out of the house. I understand she works from home and is in the house all day every day during the week. She took care of our small child mostly by herself I explained above how I tried not to interfere and tell her how to parent but anytime she needed help I would definitely lend a hand. Not saying that I was a couch potato or not around I just would not intervene until I saw things were getting out of hand then I would immediately help. She has more time to herself like I said she doesn't even ask anymore man go do this can I go do that. When she did ask it was always no problem sure I'll take care of the kids. At first this seemed very selfish and the more I thought about it I realize she was just being honest and her needs. Other than those things I have no idea why she wants out I have no idea what I've done she said she just feels that way. She doesn't feel the same about this marriage anymore. So yes Mr. Bond I've gotten vague answers other than the specifics mentioned above. This is why I wrote to the court and my answer that we need at minimum 12 therapy sessions from a neutral therapist and get some answers and communication going about what our issues could be. You see the legal papers said irreconcilable differences. I point out in my answer that there has been no attempt or discussion about reconciliation. My dilemma here is when we get to therapy next week and she says to the therapist that she wants to divorce and he looks at me and I say I want to reconcile that's automatically what I would think is going to make her dig her heels in. I put in the court papers that we would go for reconciling or closure so I'm not sure what to tell the therapist. I know I can work this in such a way that he won't know I prefer to reconcile and she will feel that I'm there to just work out issues. She is very funny about who knows about this divorce she's asked if I tell someone that I let her know that that person knows. She is also requested that we sit down and do this peacefully from the beginning however I was not going to settle and discuss division of assets prior to giving my answer. As I said before she has an attorney and I do not and I chose to ignore her settlement because I knew it was going to be a one-sided beginning to a long discussion. I chose not to discuss those things at this point and move forward with my answer in getting counseling in hopes of turning this thing around.

[NewB3]

Tonight I came home and had picked up Chinese. I figured I would get home before them. She commented that I did not call, I said I thought I would arrive before them. She ate and enjoyed. Looked exhausted. She is not sleeping well, I know Mondays couples therapy is weighing heavy. I simply said, you look tired. She said yes and that she had attempted a nap at lunch, but slept maybe 5 minutes. I told her I would take over with S3.5 for the night. I told her I knew being tired made her job tough, but she can get some rest tonight. "I know it is hard to function with little sleep"
Later I told her goodnight from the bedroom door. Told her thank you for being a good mom.
Interactions are weird. Detaching, but feeling the need to stil be the guy she would be a fool to leave...compliments, help with anything, dinners, etc.

[NewB3]

Looking for some vet input. I have said all I can say, other than just updating daily. Anyone?

[unbidden]

I think you might get more responses if you asked specific questions you might be having. In the message second above, it looks just like you're journaling and not seeking input.

[NewB3]

Am I doing things correctly?
Do I just tell the psychologist on Monday that I want to reconcile? How do I deal with her attitude after that?
I think I should tell him that I want to work on things and not just walk away.

Do I keep doing the things I am doing and/or are there other things I can do? Looking for guidance. Tried to answer mr.bonds questions the best I could above and then journaled.

[NewB3]

I feel that at therapy Monday I will say reconcile and she will say she does not want to. She has told me this only once in the past. Where do I go from there in therapy? I am so nervous. I want to get to the bottom of our issues and see if there is hope. Isn't that reconciling? Or is this just looking at things with rose colored glasses? If she does not want to work on us, but just there to help me have some closure is there any hope? Does anyone have experience in that situation?

[NewB3]

Going out with a buddy for drafts. Wife at home with S 3.5. Hope to see some positives soon. I would like input on my questions above. Going to GAL and continue 180's. I need some specifics on what else I can do. See above. Thanks all!

[NewB3]

Feeling down about all this today. Looking for answers is a long search.....

[sandi2]

I know you are seeking answers, but the description of the stitch is vague. She apparently hasn't given you much to go, other than dissatisfaction with the sex life. Did you share the same opinion?

Women who won't talk about the problem and go straight for D can be hard nuts to crack. There have been a few stories here where the man had no clue anything was wrong, and one day the W leaves without a word......and gets a D. I can't imagine how crazy that would make me, never knowing the reason behind it.

I don't know how to advise you about the physiologist session. IMO, the WAW has to be open and cooperative in order to accomplish much. Otherwise the C is dealing with her resistance. Did the court choose this C or did you?

I hope the C is pro-marriage and one who will give solutions. But there are some who actually encourage D and say go find your happiness.

Maybe just let the C lead the discussion, instead of you appearing to take charge. Answer the questions directed at you as honest as possible. If she sits there and won't talk, let the C deal with it. But don't talk for her. That's very important! The C should know how to deal with a resistant introvert in sessions.

[NewB3]

Sandi2

Dissatisfaction with sex was more about her not being in the mood. She once said we were at opposite sides of the relationship circle from each other. When I was in one frame of mind she was in the other. We were not seeing eye to eye.
This confused me and was one of the few things she said a few months prior to BD.
I never asked her to go to MC, but maybe I should have at that point? I will let him lead the session. He was a random call to a large clinic of psychiatrist and he called 2 days later as he was the first with an opening.

[sandi2]

So you really don't know anything about how he works with couples.? Well, I wish you the best.

Back to the sex issue, was it like bad timing? The moods were never together? Or was she never interested and found excuses?

If you have not read Michele's book on the Sexually Starved Marriage, I encourage you to get it. Even if your W isn't interested in reading it, I think it might help you.

Some women really starve for romance, and need it to have a healthy sex life. Some women need the fun, flirty play before bedtime. Some need to hear WOA to get in the mood. I believe the man needs to start the love making hours before bedtime. So many men start at the wrong end of the woman's body. He needs to start with her head. Make love to her mind, first.

I think couples need to break up routine. Fight against getting in the same pattern. That is what causes boredom. I remember having a lot of fun getting dressed up in costumes (if that's what you could call it). My H would come home from work and never knew what woman (me) would be waiting. Of course, I had to tone it down when the kids were around, but I would plan for them to have a stay over at grandma's......and then I could really knock his socks off! . It didn't happen every night. And, it would have been nice if he would have ever initiated some action that showed he was planning a romantic evening for me. I always felt it was one-sided.

It's so easy to let life get in the way. When things aren't good in the bedroom, it's usually a sign something needs to be addressed. If it's not, things begin to snowball until you don't know the main problem.

[NewB3]

Excuses. Romance left when child came along, we go lost in life and it snowballed. I am romantic and fun. She always said she loved it about me. Hope this therapist can help us.
Sandi2, she says she wants a D and was the one that filed. I am hoping some honest, open discussion can help her see this is not the answer. She wants to be best friends....co parent, says we will see each other all the time...etc. I feel she sees my detachment as her getting through to me and she is getting what she wants. My 180's have been noticed. What now? I can continue and will, this is for me. However, the detachment only means tomorrow in therapy she will have a BD on her. See?

[NewB3]

I want to be in this relationship. I am standing and not helping with the D. I AM getting us to go to counseling. Short of that, I have nothing else. Suggestions are always welcome, but hopefully I will not need them. I have unanswered questions about where we went wrong. I feel, like I have said, that there are misunderstood expectations on both sides and lack of communication.

[sandi2]

You are panicking. Get a grip and calm yourself down before you really mess up big. These things are not worked out in a day or two. Patience is a must!

I am hoping some honest, open discussion can help her see this is not the answer

.

I know what you mean, but you can't talk your way out of this problem. You have a WAW. Her heart is closed to you. Relationship talks won't fix this right now. You have to back off and leave her alone.

She wants to be best friends....co parent, says we will see each other all the time...etc

.

Did you know almost every WAW says this very thing?

I feel she sees my detachment as her getting through to me and she is getting what she wants.

Did you know almost all new LBH's say this, too? I want you to remember something. Your WAW won't think like you suspect she does. You know how different men and women are even under normal conditions, so you can't imagine how different a WAW thinks & feels. You could think just the opposite thought and get closer to what's in her head.

My 180's have been noticed. What now?

Notice in a positive way, or has she said? Some women feel it's too little too late. But I think the majority of WAW'S see it as a gimmic to win her back. Most do not trust the changes to stick. Some don't care. Some get angry it took this to wake the man up. I know right now all you can think about is getting her back. Hard fact is......your changes may not be enough for her. But the sooner you realize DBing is more about changing yourself in order to be the very best man you can possibly become.......the sooner you will get stronger, calmer, focused, and start healing.

I can continue and will, this is for me. However, the detachment only means tomorrow in therapy she will have a BD on her. See?

Not really. She will have a bomb dropped on her? How or what?

[NewB3]

"Honest and open discussion..." In therapy. I do not discuss the R
Best friends...reall? I did NOT know they all say that
LBH's all feel this way? Hmmm
My 180's have been noticed, as in I get comments on the things I have done at times. Thank yous, "I appreciate you taking care of that" etc. she has not said anything else
BD that although I am showing detachment that I still want to reconcile.

Sandi2
180's are for me...will be permanent. I am just freaking out. Only on here.... Around W, I am calm, happy, under control, and acting as if. As if to her is more than likely like I do not hear her...she has said that to me when we get to a paperwork point or move forward. That I do not hear her.
I appreciate all you are doing to help me. Please continue.

[NewB3]

BTW I backslid this afternoon. She came home from errands, walked towards me, I grabbed her arm and spun her around...like we danced sometimes being silly. She did not budge, so I gave her a bear hug and picked her up off the floor. Oops.
I went right back into normal 180 mode and came to re-read sandi2's 37 steps. Whew....

[NewB3]

Very nervous about today. Trying to stay positive and remember everything I've read.

[sandi2]

"Honest and open discussion..." In therapy. I do not discuss
the R

Are you saying you discuss the R in therapy, but not with her when away from the therapy sessions?

As if to her is more than likely like I do not hear her...she has said that to me when we get to a paperwork point or move forward. That I do not hear her.

Sorry, but I'm not understanding. Are you intentionally not listening to her?

[NewB3]

I do not talk about R right now. I am not suppose to. Our first couples therapy is today. Hopefully that will open some discussion. It is a touchy subject with her. She gets mad at me and shuts down.
I am listening to her. However, she wants a D and anything I do to stall her progress is me not listening. She says I do not hear her. She wants a D.

Question is. What about what I want? Do I not get a say? Hell I am getting my couples therapy starting today. This is for me... Reconcile hope. For her... So I can understand her and what she wants.
She has given me nothing to go on this far. Other than her decision to D.

[NewB3]

I am just scared about today. I have mixed feelings about the stuff that was shoved under the rug that built into resentment. I feel on both sides. Yes just mind reading, but my gut says so. Communication and openess dropped off about a year ago. This gradually faded and became norm. I felt it and should have asked for couples therapy. I failed to recognize it and feel I have thus failed my family.

[NewB3]

Therapist was fantastic! He made her move from the other end of the loveseat to the chair across from me. He sat next to her facing in his seat. He wanted us to look at each other and talk. No just talk to him. As soon as he asked who wanted to go first, I let her.

He immediately sided with her. He said I hear you. He then looks at me and said, do you understand what she is telling you? I said yes. He then preceded to ask me how she came to this. He then asked her. Hers predates my story of what went wrong and by almost 6 months. Sex is important in a relationship. She admitted this all along and would have sex even when she did not want to. Thus building resentment. Finally she asked me to therapy last fall. I told him I missed that red flag and could not see why she did not come to me with her thoughts on where our relationship was headed.
He asked us to have a 45 minute talk before our next meeting. Talk about our child and sharing his time. My needs and hers with child for 30 minutes. He then said for the last 15 minutes to discuss our relationship. What worked and did not. How we felt about things and what we can learn from it. He said we can come back, it is up to us. She looked at me and said, do you want to come back? I said yes, that would be nice. He scheduled us.
He had made it clear that he knew she wanted to come for a few sessions and said how many is that? She gave a vague answer. He said, so you are coming here for your husband? She said yes.
Thoughts? Comments? I re read DB and DR today. So, I keep up 180's and patients, GAL. Any other advice?

[MrBond]

Be very cautious at this point. Don't overdo the enthusiasm.

[NewB3]

Mr. Bond, glad to hear from you. No, I showed no enthusiasm to her, at all. I got home while she picked up S3.5. Quick dinner and night as usual.
She is out of town on business until Thursday night. This gives me time to re-read and re-focus.

[sandi2]

That was a much better job. I hope you will consider what your boundaries are. If she ever wants to know what it would take to get the R back. Right now, she still wants a D, but when she sees you being strong and she can't play you for a fool......I think she will start respecting you a little more each time.

A woman has to feel that respect for her H before she can be attracted to him. It goes hand in hand.

Who knows where things may be by October. But just don't get any hurry, there are a lot of issues to work through.

[sandi2]

Oops, sorry wrong thread.

[NewB3]

Sandi2,

Please feel free to comment on this thread while you are here. I appreciate any insight from the vet's

[NewB3]

Mr. Bond can you elaborate on the be very cautious?

[MrBond]

Right now your W is basically still out the door. The ideal time to save it would have been when SHE asked for counseling last year. With the C session last night, she's just going through the motions but her heart isn't in it. That's how it seems from the conversation you describe. The C was leading her into discussion and it wasn't voluntary from her. She was guarded.

The WAS usually only goes to C to go through the motions. They think that the C will bring their feelings back without understanding that the actually have to DO something for that to happen. Then when they don't "feel" that the feelings are there (after not doing anything) they believe that the M is "dead" and that they don't have feelings for the LBS any more, etc.

That's why you need to be cautious. See how she ACTS and if she is doing the work. Another book and site I would recommend is Project Happily Ever After. You can have her read it as it is from the POV of a WAS who actually did the work as a last ditch effort to save her M.

[claire7]

^^^ This is exactly what happened to me.

[NewB3]

Right now your W is basically still out the door. The ideal time to save it would have been when SHE asked for counseling last year. With the C session last night, she's just going through the motions but her heart isn't in it. That's how it seems from the conversation you describe. The C was leading her into discussion and it wasn't voluntary from her. She was guarded.

The WAS usually only goes to C to go through the motions. They think that the C will bring their feelings back without understanding that the actually have to DO something for that to happen. Then when they don't "feel" that the feelings are there (after not doing anything) they believe that the M is "dead" and that they don't have feelings for the LBS any more, etc.

That's why you need to be cautious. See how she ACTS and if she is doing the work. Another book and site I would recommend is Project Happily Ever After. You can have her read it as it is from the POV of a WAS who actually did the work as a last ditch effort to save her M.

The work will be done for the 45 minutes at home. I am pretty sure. Isn't that doing something?. However, getting her to read the book/site..... I feel she would take that as trying to change her mind and would not do it. Would that not be a pursuit?
Getting her to say to me " do you want to come back to counseling?" To me last night was huge. He had just gotten her to admit that she got something out of it and that it felt good to at least be moving forward. She wanted to come back if I did.
Although I feel that he was trying to soften her so she can examine this sitch with another POV.

[NewB3]

So what do I do now? Still 180's. GAL is difficult with small child at home, but I take him with me a lot more. Gives her time alone and gives me more time with just him.
Trying to be very patient and let the C do his job. Just not sure what is best for me right now.

[MrBond]

You're getting all of the advice mixed up between the books, the forum and your C.

"The work will be done for the 45 minutes at home. I am pretty sure. Isn't that doing something?."

You missed the point. If she WANTS to do the work, then that's great. If you sense her being hesitant about it, or that her heart isn't in it, then don't pressure her.

"However, getting her to read the book/site..... I feel she would take that as trying to change her mind and would not do it. Would that not be a pursuit?"

You already got her to go to C. That was pursuing.

"Getting her to say to me " do you want to come back to counseling?" To me last night was huge. He had just gotten her to admit that she got something out of it and that it felt good to at least be moving forward. She wanted to come back if I did."

Are you sure she meant it that way or did she mean "do YOU want to come back to counseling?". She could very well have said it for YOUR benefit and not hers.

"Although I feel that he was trying to soften her so she can examine this sitch with another POV."

That's fine, but you need to just be cautious.

[NewB3]

That was hard to read mr. Bond. I know what she said, as the C repeated what she said and made sure it was understood....as he did to me. I thank you so very much for your input. I will be extra cautious and will work for my family until there is a new R for us OR we part ways. I am focusing on the prior, but working on myself will be done either way, I deserve it.

[NewB3]

So other than being very cautious and not overly enthusiastic. What else can I do?

[MrBond]

Be her friend and become a student of your W. Re-learn what her likes and dislikes are. Keep all of the main focus on yourself though.

[NewB3]

Do I validate as she talks? Student of likes and dislikes....do I continue my picking up her favs at the grocery when she is out...w/o asking? Part of my being attentive and noticing her needs/wants. Trying to make sure if she does go..."only a fool would leave."
I have always given compliments...though have cut back with a limit of one a day. Is that okay? I do notice when she gets a pedicure and compliment. She no longer tells me of her errands...spa, nails, etc. as she does those things during week at lunch. The only time she tells me is when it will effect me and my schedule. ALA I need to watch the kids. She still always asks my schedule as I do not volunteer anything.
Can I still be attentive and make sure she gets her self/alone time w/o her asking? Does that help or create a cake and eat it sitch? One of the first things she told me in Feb. after bd was she needs some alone time, needs to get out of the house. Personally I think she does not need to work at home OR move her office from the main family floor to be away from work when she is off.

Is there anything I can read? I have started reading books when in the home, as to be available but not focus on her. Just here for kids. I do still cook a lot....because I used to. Part of my things I used to do

Thanks mr. Bond.... I appreciate you being here when I feel stuck or panicked.

[MrBond]

Do what you feel like doing.

See what you're going through right now is "analysis paralysis". It's where you play all of these scenarios in your head based on how you THINK she will react. This in turn makes you too afraid to do anything or you start second guessing things.

Just do what you feel like doing as if she were a good friend. If a friend were to talk to you about there problems, I'm sure you would validate them and be friendly. You can slowly start reestablish your communication with her and go from there. Keep things light and not too heavy.

[NewB3]

I feel like continuing the 180's. Detaching, not so sure.... Being a friend, I can do. I will not assume her friendliness is anything more than friends. I will NOT pursue. Thanks for being Mr. bond.

[NewB3]

While out of town, I started a game we play on iPad. We had finished the last one the week before. I started it the night before she came back as I new, per her FaceTime call to the S3.5 that she passed up the company dinner to catch up on work and sleep. She chatted with me more than usual, as I offered not much other than an interested ear. She arrived home Thursday from the business trip. Exhausted, but called to let me know when she drove from the airport. She talked a lot about her drive and I listened. I provided a lot of validation. She was exhausted from the schedule. She never mentioned the two S 3.5 pics I sent her.
She was tired, so I told myself that I was not going to be important on her schedule when she got home. I had already taken car of S 3.5. She put him to bed. Friday was very lame. I left for work...late due to S 3.5 wanting every second with her. I simply said have a good day and closed the door, not waiting for a response. I texted her later "thanks for being beautiful and for all you do." ...no reply. I called about lunch to talk about S 10 plans. No answer, left no message. She called back in 20 min. Said she had been on conf. Call. I kept it brief and Cut it short...mentioned dinner...no plans. Called on way home, she answered. Discussed dinner. I ran by grocery on way home. Had quick sit down fam dinner.
Work issue, rare... Kept her up late...then almost asleep, she went to bed having to finish work at 12. I took boys out until mid morning, let her sleep in. When I got home we chatted about the day and she thanked me for picking up one of her favs at the grocery last night. ( I notice when she is out of stuff, but say nothing) Took boys back out after lunch so she could nap. We came back two hours later. I told her that I was taking S10 out of town Sunday evening thru Tuesday AM, since our usual boys trip with friends did not happen.
I validated her long hours, lack of sleep, and her moodiness. She admitted after being kind of snippy with me, that she was just really tired. She talked while I was cooking dinner about her trip. She asked me questions of and on this afternoon about my trip, where the boys and I went while she napped....what I bought. Etc.
Not sure if she is warming up or I am distancing and she sees it? I will just keep doing 180's and being her friend. Hmmm, is she relaxing, because I get she wants a D and thinks I am moving forward too? Or is she softening? Time will tell.
At least I get some good time with my friend and children. Hope I get my wife back...sure miss being honest with her about my love. We did book a second C session, so I have that to look forward to. Patience, stillness, focus, and GAL.

[NewB3]

I cooked a good dinner tonight. We all sat down and ate. I will be gone tomorrow afternoon thru tues. aM. I was putting away things. She has her T Monday night. She had to make plans for a sitter. Reality? Hmmm
She will have no home cooked meals, help with S3.5, and a messy home.
She came home last week to a spotless house and all laundry was washed and put away.

[NewB3]

Worry is a down payment on a problem you may never have. - Unknown

Read this on a sign the other day. Helps me focus on today! Enjoy

[NewB3]

Booked a last minute trip for S10 and I. Told her Saturday and we left Sunday afternoon. She hugged him goodbye and said not much to me. Did not call, text, email. Came home Tuesday noon. She had an appt for s3.5 and was to leave at 330. Ran errands with s10 and got car cleaned and gassed. Returned by 230, she was working and dressed to go, had on wedding ring., which is usually the last thing on as she grabs her purse. Asked about dinner, I said thought we could eat leftovers unless she had plans. I said if you want me to cook, let me know. She said sure...I said what. She picked a dish. S10 and I had dinner ready when s3.5 and her got home. I was quiet most of the afternoon and at dinner. She did ask me after dinner if I wanted to do the dishes or give s3.5 a bath. I told her I did not care which...then corrected myself by saying I have no preference. She said well, you can do either or none. I was shocked, but kept my cool and mentioned that she had the s3.5 the past few days, so I would bath him. I said that for 2 reasons. 1. I watched him 3days and 2 nights and she never mentioned it. 2. Being a good husband.
At dinner, she asked s10 questions about trip....one odd question was, did you sleep in the same tent?
Found out today...renewing car tag that car is in her maiden name. They will jot renew for 2015 without her fixing that. She told me, I might as well go ahead and sign it over to you. Let me know how to do that. That way it will be one less thing to worry about.
I remember
None of what you hear...1/2 of what you see.
So we have heard.....car title thing
Seen....wedding ring and her ask weird questions
Thoughts?

[MrBond]

My thought is that you analyze EVERY LITTLE thing she does too much. I mean you put the times of when she did things too. How about describing what you and your son did together while you were away?

[NewB3]

We went camping at a state park a few hours away. I had a spot right by the water. I woke early and made a fire, breakfast and coffee. I sat and watched the world come alive...all alone, Just me and nature. Then S10 would wake and I would do my cooking all over again. Trying to teach a little as well
I did a lot of thinking about my sitch, then would focus on relaxing and just being. I feel renewed and ready to come back to my limbo roller coaster.

[NewB3]

I try to keep journaling here to get advice from the vets that know my story and the typical signs. What can I do at this point?

[NewB3]

So, our family weekend trip is over. We both felt it went as good as it could. We did have issues with S3.5 and S10 being out of control. This forced us to tag team parent and help each other out a lot. A few times this weekend she was extra attentive.
Tonight we sat down for our talk prior to our next C meeting. It turned into a buffet of topics and we spent the full 45 minutes honestly talking about feelings, communication issues, and where she was in the feelings/emotional process. Essentially, I told her this. She is at the finish line (D) waiting for me to catch up. She agreed. This IS NOT easy. She did tear up a few times. I did too. This was a fantastic 45 minutes, however, the darkness has crept in. She has not connection with me at this point. Somewhere along the way that left and she made up her mind to be divorced. Simple as that, no other reasons.
My issue here is what to do now. We agreed to go to one more therapy session tomorrow. She feels that I have tried to drag this out, but after talking to me knows that I was being genuine and doing all I could to save my family. I have no regrets other than not going with her to therapy last year. Maybe we would have ended up here or maybe we could have kept the flame alive through good communication.
We live together, settlement will be worked out. I am allowing her to walk at this point. I SOOoooo want to go dark, but have to much respect for her while living here. Need the vet's to chime in quickly. I feel my next few weeks are critical. I will remain making her feel she is a fool for leaving. I will continue the "as if", until I leave. I feel doing the 180's is a way of life now. Keeping that going.

HELP

[NewB3]

Another book and site I would recommend is Project Happily Ever After. You can have her read it as it is from the POV of a WAS who actually did the work as a last ditch effort to save her M.

Going to send her this kindle book. I have nothing to lose. Should I....
Ask her to give it one final try. Negotiate for an extended warranty on your marriage. You can’t talk her into loving you, but you might be able to talk her into trying by saying something like, “Will you give me four months of your time? During these four months, I promise to do everything I can to become a man you would like to be married to. If, after four months, you see no improvement, you can leave and I will not try to stop you. If, after four months, however, you see some improvement, we can extend the trial date another four months and another four months and so on.”

Thoughts?

[NewB3]

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?

[NewB3]

Going to pass on the 4 month trial thing. I think we are past that. I guess it is time to accept that I will get this D. Being agreeable and working towards closing this chapter in my life.
I would expect WAW to want to reconcile within the next year or two. I think I am on the right track here, judging by responses from other members.

[MrBond]

"Going to pass on the 4 month trial thing. I think we are past that. I guess it is time to accept that I will get this D. Being agreeable and working towards closing this chapter in my life."

That was quick. Just a week and a half ago you said you were on a positive swing. I guess you just don't have the patience. You do realize that it took awhile to get you to this point. It will take just as long to get out of it.

The problem with you is that you constantly put these "expectations" on your W. You "expect" her to react or do things in a way that YOU want. Doesn't work that way.

You have to be understanding enough to let her process things on her own at her pace so she's onboard.

I guess you expect that if no one follows what you want to do, when you want to do it, then it's not enough.

[NewB3]

A positive swing, and after talking with her...yes, it was positive as she felt we were finally moving toward her wants. I finally "hear her". I am confused mr. Bond. I need your help more than you think.
After talk with W last night, I felt like I had been delusional about our situation. She feels we are moving forward with this and is sad she has hurt me, but feels that she has given me plenty of time to focus on what my feelings are. She has told me that we need to start making plans to settle. Therapy was just for me I guess? She did like the first meeting and how it appeared he was helping us move forward.
I now cannot see the road for the fog mr.bond. All I know is to stay patient and focus on doing 180's and being her friend. Listening and discussing our divorce. She leaves me alone about it, but when it comes up...... We had our first REAL sit down last night, per our C instruction. She felt it was a good thing and that we should continue...just not so sure about going back to C as she feels we can make these discussion meetings ourself. Today I mentioned we would take tonight's appointment and see how we feel about a third one at the end of the session.
Thank you for your reply mr. Bond! I look forward to more guidance.

[NewB3]

I feel the 4 month trial thing is a pipe dream for me. I feel asking would have me backslide in that she is, currently, going to see a C with me. I did buy her the happily ever after project book for kindle and sent it last night.
I do not want to give up, but cannot see anything but cheese less tunnels. If I am on the right track, I can continue, I just don't know.

[MrBond]

What cheeseless tunnel? You haven't even tried anything yet.

Let me tell you. It took my W 3 years before she even spoke to me. During that time I changed and made myself a better man.

What you do with the time you have is up to you. If you want to move on and find someone else because you "need" someone, then file the paperwork and move on.

[NewB3]

I don't need anyone but she's wanting to move forward with the paperwork what am I to do to stall?
What else can I try?
I have seen what works and when something doesn't, I go and try something else. As far as tunnels are concerned.
What time do I have left? I feel she is nicely pushing this discussion to finish up. What else can I do that will not appear as stalling?

[NewB3]

Looking for input, guidance, discussion......sandi2? Mr.bond?

[NewB3]

Last night's counseling session was good. I told wife that we would see how it went looking for an appointment. The session was about moving forward but trying to build a friendship. This counselor knows I want to reconcile and knows she does not use very careful to make subtle suggestions to her on how to better our relationship as friends. When he would see her body language change he would pause really knowing the fact that he knows this is not to reconcile but simply to be up to move forward as parents. He's being very careful but is offering solutions that on the surface appear to be moving toward what she wants while at the same time trying to repair this relationship and give a solutions.
I felt good about the session and as we were leaving she paused and looked at me and said so do you want to come back what you think? We booked another session. He said he realizes there's probably a lot of contempt and simply going through the motions of living together his parents. He wants us to work on communicating about things we joy like we used to. Thus setting homework to talk for an hour this time instead of 45 minutes.
This morning things were busy but she posits long enough to look at me and ask when we can talk about the settlement. It seems like every move we make towards positive she wants to talk about divorce. I told her I would have a few things for her this weekend we could sit down and talk. I am scared and I told her this the other night chat I broke down simply said I was just scared. I explained what I meant by that nailed down a few things however I feel like that was backsliding. I realize I've been doing the one 80s and being happy and going about things but it is making her angry because she feels like because I'm being happy and sticking around and being helpful that I'm ignoring the fact that she wants a divorce. How can I actively while living at home with a small child move forward so that she doesn't feel this way. Mr. Bond I know you said go ahead and sign the papers if you need someone. I don't need anyone I want her and I'm willing to do what I need to do I'm simply asking for help from everyone here because I'm at a loss. I feel like I am a fish in a pond full of Nowater. I keeper sorting to reading BB and DR but failed to see how some of the supplies of my time. Not sure what I can actively do other than just be patient and my panic. I've read other threads as they pop up here and see that there are a lot of that's chiming in to help people. Not sure what else I can say here.

[NewB3]

Re reading everything here.
Mr bond can you give more details on this?
"You have to be understanding enough to let her process things on her own at her pace so she's onboard."

See above where I mention she has said she wants to discuss the settlement in order to move forward. What is there for her to process? Please offer me something constructive and positive. What am I doing wrong? What am I doing right?

[NewB3]

Reading DB again. Looking for nuggets of wisdom. I had therapy last night and know I need to be patient and let WAW accept some responsibility for this. I feel I have apologized for the few things that I felt bad about. Although there was only one of those she mentioned in C. We are now trying to build a friendship per our C. Working on not just the day to day family things and not keeping the contempt alive. "Just friendly conversation and complements. Not an attempt to reconcile. " C is trying to get WAW to open up and me to accept that this is over. WAW is now having some sleepless nights.
Again, like before she does weird things and says things that are opposite. It is very hard to not believe what you here.
I am working on aspects of the settlement to hopefully show here that I am doing okay and since she is still in C ( going on 3rd appt w/ not complaints) that I can move some in her wants too. I am okay. I will be okay. I am patient. My therapist says he cannot believe I have been able to maintain my focus and 180's without just throwing my hands up. WAW is chilling no empathy treating this as a business transaction. I feel she is doing this to kind of be emotionally withdrawn so that I don't get the wrong signals. This is why I think the C suggestion of being friends will work for us.
DB page 77
One thing WAW liked about our C is that he did not focus on the past. He jumped right into current sitch.
DB page 83
Our C, though we have always met C together said this exact thing last week about the times we got along and what we did together as friends.
Nuggets of hope for me.

[CaliGuy]

New83

Read a little of your sitch, I am no vet ... but I do see one thing you do need to do. LRT ... above all detach. Maybe I am offbase, and I am not trying to be insensitive ... but right now you are the clingy needy H and she is not going to respond to that. Its not attractive ... Be you, a better you, GAL and get your confidence back .... I know it seems impossible .. but like in the DB book, you are in quicksand and the more you fight the faster this is all going to go badly. You have a gift here .. a positive, you have her in C atleast ... you might be able to remove some of the negative issues that were root causes for failure in your M .... and she is WAW and in a fog, hell bent on ending this thing and the more she feels you hanging on the more it justifies to her she has to get out.
Focus on you, and how you can be a better man regardless of the outcome, I am not a patient man so I can appreciate your position, your WAW is feeling trapped and if you really want her back, it has to be her idea not yours .... took me a long time to come to this and its even harder to accept.
I wish you all the luck in the world, hang in there .. you do have some small positives here .. focus on those.

[NewB3]

LRT is what I am re reading. Detach? Trying to do that and not be a cold room mate is hard. Small child at home and parenting together. GAL is easy, just need suggestions specific to my sitch with young child at home and just us. I do take him out on the weekend to spend quality time with just him. Not guilt gifting him, just playing in the park and going for a treat. I take him to the grocery and have started allowing him to hang out with dad in weekend nights after WAW goes to bed. They usually go to bed at 7pm and up at 5ish. So that is most of my GAL right now.
Trying to be friendly and say have a nice day. Maybe a pat on the back.
Thanks for pointing me back to a path caliguy

[NewB3]

DB pages in LRT.
A different approach isn't different enough....
I cook much more now, like I did when we met
I do more daily with the S3.5 ( baths/ bedtime stories / handling clothes washing)
I try to clean something everyday ( make bed / clean kitchen / spray weeds in yard)

All new stuff or what I did when we first married.

I do my 180's too.

Do I fix things in the home or let her hire a repairman? Normally I would do it myself.

Going to buy new shoes and clothes this weekend too. Have lost 27 lbs since December. Been working out in basement at night. Recently bought protein shake we used to enjoy when we first met. She has started back on them too I say nothing about that.
I have been very scarce on compliments. I have always given those, but trying to do unusual or things I did when we met. Breaking it up and staying patient. Looking for any help. Trying to keep it together and yet move forward so she feels I am not stalling. Balancing all of that and work.

[NewB3]

Mentioned on another thread maybe we can get some more eyes on it if I post about it here too. Vets please chime in I think a lot of people are having the same issue. When detaching and trying to be mysterious doing 180s it appears as though ....after it starts to cause the wife to pursue, you end up with her mirroring your actions.

[MrBond]

"When detaching and trying to be mysterious doing 180s it appears as though ....after it starts to cause the wife to pursue, you end up with her mirroring your actions."

You shouldn't "try" to be mysterious. You just detach and live your life. Detaching doesn't mean that you stop wanting the M to work out. It means you detach your emotions from the situation.

[NewB3]

What about the mirroring?
Sitting here while everyone is in bed. Looking at the settlement agreement. Part one is custody. I will work on this part first and discuss with WAW this weekend. I will work on part two for next time. I am not rushing this, but moving forward since she wants that. I figure if she keeps going to therapy, I need to help her see I am moving towards her decision.
Took S3.5 out tonight to a back to school thing. Had emailed wife earlier this week and said I wanted to take him. So, she told him at dinner that night that I was taking him. He was excited. She never mentioned going, so I took him. She could have gone, but I was not offering.
Here is something strange. Are these the little things I am supposed to notice?
So, last night, I was ready to do my story reading and he wanted mommy. So I said well, I am going to go ahead and go. She look shocked and said "where"? I told her shopping to avoid weekend crowds. Gone an hour. Had stopped by big box store for shaving supplies. This morning, she sees the bag, empty, on the counter. Receipt was where she asks me to put them, so she can enter them in....she says,"oh, you went to...?" I answered yes, on my way back home. She then asked, "what did you buy?" I felt this was odd, as she appears to not care. However, as soon as I am A. Not the first to talk, B. Do my own thing, she gets chatty and asks questions.
Today at lunch, I went shopping and bought a shirt and tie. Said nothing when I got home with S3.5. She saw the bag, I moved it to the dresser and continued on with the evening. Nothing was said. I know she looked in the bag while I was in the shower. She has made a point a few times the past few weeks to come into the bathroom when I am getting out of the shower. Tonight....I turned and caught her looking. Made me feel great. I said nothing and left the room. Bought some nice soap and aftershave lotion too.
Settling in for a long DB LRT. Looking forward to some discussions here soon. Thanks for all your help and motivation

[NewB3]

And another thing tonight. I go to run to the store...S3.5 and wife reading. I am out and decide to get gas. So my 15 minute trip was about 30. She called me as soon as I was a block away and asked where I was. Told her was almost home, stopped for gas. She was having wifi issues. Sheesh can she not wait?
Washer is on the fritz. I have a work around. She asked me earlier this week what part to order....do I fix it or tell her to hire someone? Do I paint the eaves on this house? They need it before winter. How do I play into her neediness for a repairman? Is this a positive that I can use to my advantage?

[NewB3]

Nervous this morning. We are going to talk at lunch today about the settlement. Any advice would be helpful this point. Some support would also be nice.

[NewB3]

Well I took some time to reflect since I got no posts here prior to our discussion. First thing I wanted to discuss was the most important and I was going to stop at that point I was discussing my son. Soon as we finish that we had some time and she said well let's just keep going. So I discussed every change that need to be made needed to be made I said no to certain things I agreed to others. She made it really easy. However the one thing we did not discuss was the money. I told her I would type up all the changes and give them to her intern she's going to give them to her attorney to have added into the form. I have 60 days from signing this agreement or settlement to be out of the home.
I am mediately loaded a couple of homefinding apps on the iPad and began searching. I was being quiet doing my own thing and letting her take care of our son since I had taken care of him last night up until bathtime and all morning. She looks up from the kitchen and said do you want pizza tonight. Wow I cannot believe that after such a serious discussion she's right back to happy walk away wife. I have really no clue what to do here I do know I have more time. And the best thing to do with this time. I need the vets here to really start answering some of these questions on my thread I have nothing else. Anyone?
So I held it together pretty good today but I've made sure I stayed busy since I told her I don't want to order pizza I'll just make pizza so I went to the grocery store I picked up some things for my son that he asked for I picked up the things I needed for pizza and I bought some nice flowers for the table because I liked them. While I was out I made an appointment to get a haircut so when I got home she was being kind of down and depressed and said that our son didn't want to go do anything with her and she just was going to put on a little make up and maybe go find something to do unless I had something I needed to do. Poor thing I had to tell her I had a hair appointment will be leaving any moment. So there she is left of the house with our son. Our next discussion will be money and the separation of things in the house.

[NewB3]

Better yet can I have some advice for this odd situation I'm seem to be between the settlement agreement and the actual finalization of the divorce and will be moving out in between. Do I continue L RT?
After our settlement discussion today wife said see were moving forward with this now in therapy we can work on being friends. Yeah because that's what he's got her convinced that we're doing or working on being friends in getting back to talking and enjoying each others time at the same time he's telling her that this is not sending any mixed signals that I fully understand that this relationship is over and there's no chance of reconciliation. And she believes every word of it. I think we pick the best marriage counselor for us.

[NewB3]

There's been a lot of GAL this weekend for me. Saturday I spent all afternoon looking at houses online. W a W was in a great mood like she had a B12 shot. She remained upbeat all weekend when it came to me. She offered to help me look at my finances wanted to show me a house or two online that she thought was a good deal as she watches real estate constantly.
Ladies and gentlemen I don't know what to make of this. I beg for help from the vet's. She has been offering help with anything all weekend and has told me all I need to do is ask and she'll be glad to help me with anything. I don't want her help it's time for me to Stana my own 2 feet find my own home work at my own payment and mortgage. We had negotiated 60 days from signing of the settlement agreement that I have to be out of the home. I explained to her when she offered help today that I am devastated I am stressed and I have several deadlines looming. I told her this because she had asked in passing if I was going to retype the settlement today. She has been patient with me and I felt I should go forth with the settlement at least to show her that I am willing to work on that. I had no idea until she asked today if I was going to retype it that she wants this part to go very quickly and get my signature.
This will be my last post here for the walk for a while unless I get some answers here I can't keep wasting time posting and getting no answers. I am doing GAL and LRT. I was out of the house most of the afternoon today doing my own thing. She asked this morning if I had any plans for the day I told her no do you have plans she said no. I suddenly right before lunch came out with a long list of things I could go do and told her I would be back later. 3 1/2 hours later she calls to see when I'm going to come home I was a block from the house. As soon as I got home she nicely said that she wanted to get out for a little while since she works from home and would be stuck in the house all week. She said she was going to go run some errands and would be back. As weird as it was she showed up 25 minutes later and was ready to cook dinner. I never mentioned dinner I never offered to cook anything tonight she completely took charge. What could she possibly be thinking or doing. Better yet what could I possibly be doing an eye on the right track?

[NewB3]

Of course after my outings today and yesterday she has plenty of questions of where did you go so did you buy anything did you see anything you liked. I noticed today that I have a habit of telling her each store that I go to but I don't tell her if I bought anything I simply show up with a bag take it to the room and put the clothes in the laundry. I'm sure she'll notice what I've bought the sizes are smaller and fit me better since I've lost weight I got a couple new shirts new tie off for me.

[NewB3]

Mr. Bond
I did purchase that book that you mentioned and I sent it to her via email for Kindle. She never mentioned it so this weekend since we are being honest and open I asked her if she had gotten the book that I sent. She said she saw the email but did not click the link to download it yet. I told her it was a good book is kind of funny and lighthearted and she might enjoy it.

[NewB3]

With all due respect mrbond. Maybe this roller-coaster has me upset, maybe having a bad day. I said nothing disrespectful to you personally. I was venting. I can do that here. These days I read and see many other vets offering support and helpful answers everywhere, seems like weeks that mine go unanswered. I came here for support and advice, not to make personal attacks or be curt.
Let's move forward and not take things personally please. Thanks for all of your hope and support.

[NewB3]

Came home tonight and wife arrived with S3.5. She was talkative and in a good mood. We had good friendly conversation. Nice evening so far. Staying cautious. Thanks for everyone's support nice to have a place I can vent and be negative. That way the WAW doesn't see it.