"Speak Softly" The MLC Version

[GoatGal]

Well, I think my old thread in Newcomers finally locked.
I wish I could figure out when that's about to happen so I can start a new one.

Last thread was "Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick" in Newcomers.


Some helpful moderator will assist me in posting the old threads, I'm sure.


Wonka suggested I camp over here for awhile since it appears my H may be suffering from the dreaded MLC and I agree.

The crazy-making behavior, the childish/teenaged antics. It's enough to make my head spin around backwards...

Something is changing with him recently, but I don't want to read into it.
Not that I could if I wanted to.


---GGG

(That's Gumby Goat Gal now. Because I'm "Flexible"!)

[Cadet]

Previous threads
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...nt=5&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...411#Post2461411

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...255#Post2447255

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...647#Post2450647

I am not a moderator but Welcome to MLC.

I dont think you need my normal welcome post but I will put it here if you do want it

Oh and if you look on the main page it tells you haw many replies there are on your thread , when you get to 100 they will lock them

[GoatGal]

Thanks, Cadet.

You're the most reliable thing in my life right now!


---GGG

[GoatGal]

GoatGal:
(RE: H being something I observe, like an amoeba under a microscope )
"I can have a hypothesis, but I can't predict the outcome, nor can I influence the experiment."


Wonka: "This is quite a misnomer when it comes to DBing, right? You do influence the "experiment" through your actions and words. And the now infamous STFU duct tape too!" ;0


So much for my "Scientific Method"....

I'll have to leave the double-blinds behind. But I will keep plenty of STFU duct tape in the laboratory!

--GGG

[Cadet]

GoatGal:
(RE: H being something I observe, like an amoeba under a microscope )
"I can have a hypothesis, but I can't predict the outcome, nor can I influence the experiment."


Wonka: "This is quite a misnomer when it comes to DBing, right? You do influence the "experiment" through your actions and words. And the now infamous STFU duct tape too!" ;0


So much for my "Scientific Method"....

I'll have to leave the double-blinds behind. But I will keep plenty of STFU duct tape in the laboratory!

--GGG

Someone I know used to get the duct tape in different colors, pink, blue, orange is the new black.......

[GoatGal]

I HAVE THAT DUCT TAPE!!!!


I have it in sky blue, magenta, neon orange (for emergencies), as well as "crime scene yellow".


If you must use it, you might as well be fashionably coordinated.




---GGG

[GoatGal]

PS: H has a sudden "appointment" today about which he's giving no details...

Just so happens that the big name university around here that has a special clinic for porn addiction/sexual/relationship/intimacy problems has intake hours on Fridays during the exact hours he's going to be MIA.

I happened by his lawyer's office on my way home from some errands, not that I was looking, specifically, but if his car had been there I would have seen it.

(OK. I looked. Happy now?)

I can think of no other reason he'd have some long, open-ended appointment out of the blue.


I dare to hope maybe... maybe...he's realizing that a lonely, porn-addicted life is not for him.
After all, since he's been out of the house he has had the ability to go whole-hog on that and could no longer blame me for the bad feelings it generated. Maybe it's like too much ice cream...

But no expectations. It could just be he's having his windshield replaced.

I am curious though.

Hmmmmm....

I'll see what he looks like when he shows up.

Work clothes mean he was at work.
Casual clothes mean he hasn't gone to work at all today.
A band-aid on his arm means he had bloodwork done (overdue).

Curiosity is allowed, right?

I'm not reading anything into it, just observing my favorite amoeba!


In any case, no matter what he says/doesn't say/do I'll just say:
"Oh, yeah?"

And STFU.

I find I really don't care much either way but it could be an interesting development.

Or not.

He is changing and up to something, I have no doubt of that.

Time will answer all questions, or I'll learn to stop wanting answers.


---GGG

[LoisB]

So GG,

Besides animals, fellow Aspie, what are YOUR passions?

Mine are history, women authors, writing and anything British.

My real name is Heather.

[LoisB]

Oh, and any combination of the above.

[Wonka]

GGG,

About time!!! Glad you've staked out your tiki here. You'll meet the most charming, nuttiest, wacky, and fun group of people right here in the MLC forum. Sure, there's one or two with a few loose marbles but not naming any names!!!

I sincerely do hope that H is truly seeking out help for his porn addiction problem. fingers crossed

Can we have a party on your porch with margaritas and amaretto?

[Cadet]

Time will answer all questions, or I'll learn to stop wanting answers.

This is very true you just don't have any idea of how much of it you have been given

So make good use of it!

[GoatGal]

Oh... I am making as much of it as I can!

Porch Party will commence at FIVE PM SHARP.

But does Amaretto even go with Margaritas?

No matter. Works for me!

If that's actually where he was, I'm BUYING!

And it he was there, it will prove the hypothesis:
Assuming he really "needs help", if I stop nagging him to do it, he will eventually seek it out on his own, when HE is ready.



---GGG

[Wonka]

GGG,

Or you can ditch the hypothesis and work with a postulate instead.

How about that??!

[GoatGal]

Wow, Lois,

Your interests dovetail so nicely!
"History, woman authors, writing, and anything British"!!!

So that would be like Doris Lessing and the Bronte sisters having a "Jolly Good" Tea Time at old Cambridge, passionately discussing the Napoleonic Wars while enjoying clotted cream and crumpets? (Maybe they drove there in their Aston Martin?)
You can spend a lifetime delving into those and never repeat.

Can you be more specific? Which authors? What era of history? British as in "The Beatles" or as in Stonehenge?

Anyhow. You asked about my interests, so here goes: (You may be sorry you asked!)

1. Animals/Nature/Wild Birds/Wildlife/Insects/Biology/Veterinary Medicine/Animal Behavior/Ethology (particularly avian, equine, canine behavior) Anything to do with Horses, Donkeys, Mules, riding, competitions, used to be rodeo stuff. (Western riding, not English. Sorry! )
Microbiology/Parasitology/Animal Rescue/Dog Training-Competition/Bench Shows/Various dog breeds/Humane-Slaughterhouse issues/Breed Awareness/Husbandry/Reptiles/Amphibians/Aquatic Mammals.

2. Humans: Psychology/Human Behavior/Social Behavior/Psychiatry/Human Medicine/LGBT issues and awareness/Autistic Spectrum Disorders/
Body Language/Communication/Health/Fitness/Nutrition/DBing!

3. Design: Home Exterior/Interior/Landscape/Garden/Environmental/
Architecture/Building code/construction

4. Music: Writing/Performing/Guitar/Vocals/Piano/Ukulele/Traditional Jazz and Blues (Pre 1945) Vintage instruments, vintage artists/DJing

5. Dance: Swing dancing/Blues/Balboa/Lindy Hop---Performing, teaching, competing, social dancing. Choreography. Also Modern Dance, Jazz Dance, contemporary and ballet. NOT BALLROOM. (Too many "rules": see below) Fitness/Bodybuilding

6. BOOKS!: Indiscriminate and voracious reader. From books on well water safety to The Magic Mountain, and Anne Sexton. (Now Audiobooks too! In the car!!!) No Kindle for me. I'm old school.

7. Food and Wine: I was in "the biz" for years and picked up a lot of "chef" stuff, was a sommelier, traveled around the world for a wine importing company...
But I'm not a wine/food snob. I like my Doritos as much as the next gal!
I just know the good stuff when I come upon it.
I am a very competent cook, but I hate following recipes. I just go the creative route.
Don't much "like" cooking though, and I dislike baking. (Too easy to screw up if you don't follow instructions)

8. Misc:
Old Cars (Ramblers, Bug Eyed-Sprites, MGBs, Muscle Cars)
Cycling
Travel
MAPS!!!
GRAPH PAPER!
TO-DO LISTS!
The ACTs of Goal Setting/Planning/Coordinating. (Events, life, etc. )


9. Art: Creating more than "appreciating". 3-D Sculpture, mostly ceramic, pottery, also drawing. NOT PAINTING.

10: The Bizarre, Odd, and Freaky: I was a Zombie fan back when it wasn't cool. I had piercings before anyone knew what they were. The Mutter Museum, Ripley's Believe It or Not, I love that stuff. The stranger, the better. Parasites! Life is AMAZING!


OTHER LIKES:
The smell of goat cheese and other stinky cheeses, pungent herbs, cilantro, skunk, and gasoline. (In mild doses).
The way the sky changes when you're near a large body of water.
Ice cream and soup with "Things In It". Textural Variety.
Tapioca.
Bacon.
Being Alone
Being with people who enjoy the same things I do

Things I Dislike:
Being a spectator instead of participant.
Sitting and listening to music. I either want to dance/sing/or play.
That "falling" feeling: Elevators, Rollercoasters, Airplanes. Things that fall and go boom.
(No fear of flying, just fear of crashing. I don't want to be squished.)
Lying on the beach.
Sitting around at a BBQ
Pot Lucks
Discussion about people I don't know, will never know, and their boring activities. (So-and-so's Son-In-Law's brother went into the Navy...Yes... and???? I'd rather chew off my own foot.)
Ice Cream Socials. Unless there are a lot of things to put on the ice cream, then it's GRABBIT and GO!
"Parties" with no dancing, no music, and no alcohol where everyone just sits around in a circle. (Just shoot me!)
Tanning.
Cleaning.
Waiting.
Waking Up.
Boogers and Snot (Talk about ruining a good library book experience!)
Used Band-Aids
BORING STUFF!!!!!
Chaotic environments
Too many conversations at once
Anything repetitive which does not engage me/Assembly-line activity
Buzzing lights, too much visual stuff crammed together.
Air blowing on my neck/head.
Certain high/low frequency sounds. Very distracting.
Abrupt changes in barometric pressure.
Clothes that don't feel right, tags, earrings hanging down, hair hanging down.
Light tickle-y stroking. I am not ticklish but I find tentative-ness to be irritating, in every way.
Getting my hair and nails done. I feel like a prisoner.
Too much time in a group. It's exhausting. Unless we're a BAND, then it's GREAT! (See above)
Team sports, pretty universally. I don't want to watch other people do this, I wouldn't even do it myself if I COULD catch and throw something somewhere.
Too many "rules" for things. I'd rather find something else where I can be more expressive.
Listening to people talk about stupid meaningless things i.e.: Small Talk.
When people are vague and don't say what they mean, or when they lie, or when they do mean things to others and don't seem to care.
People who refuse to learn, to improve, who believe what they believe even though there is a ton of information to contradict it.

I believe opinions should change when new, accurate information is presented which challenges any strongly held belief.

Illogic!!!

(And long sequences of information are extremely difficult for me. Verbal directions, step-by-step instructions. Unless I can make these into a visual string, there is no hope of ever remembering anything after step three without a tremendous amount of repetition.)

NOTES:
As a girl, my crush was "Mr. Spock" on Star Trek. (Leonard Nimoy)
This probably says a lot about me.
Second to Mr. Spock was BATMAN!!!! (The 1960's Batman, that is! rayzzz, take note!)

I know just about everything about everything that interests me, and very little about the rest, except what I need to know to be a good, responsible human.
(So, politics, finances, etc. only on an "as needed" basis.)
There's probably more but I can't think of anything now.

In a nutshell, I'm smart in such a stupid way.
I am a fund of sh*t, information that has very little ability to make me rich. But it does make life interesting. There is SO much I don't understand about people, so I'm always learning.

Oh. And I've never been interested in money. Just freedom..

And the quality I value most is KINDNESS.
Both in myself and in others.
If people are kind and their hearts are in the right place, that goes a very long way with me.

Which it's so hard to feel good about ever R with my H these days.

He has shown he is NOT the kind person I always believed he was. At least he isn't any more.

That's sad...





----GGG

[GoatGal]

Wonka,

I can do that!

My theory postulates that Amoeba "H" (or maybe he's a Paramecium?) will move in the Petri dish in the following ways:

He will move away from unpleasant/painful stimuli.
He will move toward areas where conditions are favorable/pleasant.

Next up:
"It's ALL Dog Training!"

*Timing is Everything!

*Catch Them Doing Something Good!

*Reward the Positive/Ignore the Negative!

*Focus on the Outcome You Want!

*Praise, Praise, Praise Again!

*Reward them with Treats THEY Value!

*Repetition Builds Confidence!

*Always End on a Positive Note!

*Calm, Assertive Voice and Demeanor!


Sounds easy enough!

---GGG

[LoisB]

Whoa, GGG!

Jane Austen.

I will respond in bits and pieces.

Oh. And I've never been interested in money. Just freedom..

And the quality I value most is KINDNESS.
Both in myself and in others.
If people are kind and their hearts are in the right place, that goes a very long way with me.

Which it's so hard to feel good about ever R with my H these days.

He has shown he is NOT the kind person I always believed he was. At least he isn't any more.

That's sad...

Me too. Ditto on all of the above.

CARS!!! You like CARS?!! ME TOO!!

My dad loves vintage cars and it's a favorite memory of mine, working on cars with him. We worked on a Lotus and a 67 Healey 3000. We looked around for a muscle car before his MLC took hold and he left. We looked for a Chevelle and a Goat. Never got one, but I will always remember standing in some stranger's garage and listening to the rumble of the Malibu SS. I love the power.

Smokey and I bought a 66 Lemans, but Smokey kept it for himself. I, then, bought a beat up 73 Mustang Mach 1 but never had the income to fix it up. :-( Still a dream.

[GoatGal]

Today's Scientific Observations:

1. He showed up in work clothes, therefore, he DID go to work today. (He would never wear those clothes otherwise.)

2. There was no evidence of venipuncture, (band-aid/poke hole/bruise)
So no blood draw?

3. He was two hours later than he had predicted, kept me posted all afternoon, so apparently this "appointment" took a lot longer than he'd anticipated.

The sexual behavior clinic I mentioned does extremely thorough intakes/evaluations, and it could well take HOURS. Physical/sexual history, medical...

It is a program he's looked at before because he'd let that slip at one point. So I know he knows he has a "problem" and I know he's thought about going in the past.

4. It took him well over an hour to drive here, so this appointment was closer to work than home.
(Apartment searching would be somewhere in between for logistics, his lawyer is only 15 minutes away. When he called, he slipped and implied he was close to work. The SB clinic is further from here than work is for him.)

5. He did not require a driver for the appointment, so it wasn't a procedure that required sedation or anything major.

6. He has been very tight-lipped about this event.
Yet he tells me about the dentist, meetings, late evenings at work.

7. He rescheduled his entire day to accommodate this appointment on short notice.
He was originally scheduled to work later tonight, until Wednesday morning when he emailed me about this mystery "appointment".
Maybe there was a cancellation? He'd already missed work for the dentist, doubtful that he'd schedule something non-urgent two days later.

So I am hopeful that he's doing something positive for himself.
That would be a very good sign for his well-being.

I deliberately didn't see him tonight; even if he wanted to tell me something, I'm not ready to hear it.

Better to give him time and space to mull it all over, whatever it is.


If/when he's ready, he'll tell me about it. Or not.

In the meantime---very interesting.!
And no, I'm not mind-reading. I'm documenting observable behavior and POSTULATING a theory.


(And this is me, scarfing up every little cookie crumb of HOPE that's on the table. Guess my sweet tooth isn't totally gone after all. )

---GGG

[GoatGal]

Lois,

'67 Healey? SWEET!

And my dad had a Malibu SS, silver, red leather interior, ragtop!

It was HIS MLC car!!!

I love that sexy rumble too... kind of gets into your bones.

And I should have included Jane Austen at the ladies' tea. She's more than welcome.

[daring]

I love everything about this thread but I think my favorite is "It's all dog training"!!!

So you have an amoeba that responds to dog training? Think there is a whistle in MLC frequency? If you find one I need to borrow it please!

Welcome to the twilight zone, alien abduction, repeat adolescence forum- lots of great advice over here =)

[GoatGal]

daring,


That cracked me up!

I had this picture of me wearing a lab coat, clipboard in hard, bending over to whistle at this Amoeba under the microscope in order to train it.

I have a few dog whistles around somewhere. I'll dig them out and try them on H, then I'll post the results.

I am not optimistic however. While he was cheating on me, he started doing this weird thing where it seemed he'd gone deaf.

He just wouldn't respond... I pushed him to get his hearing checked.

Later I realized that he WOULD respond, but only if asked a direct question.

(No, that's not passive-aggressive AT ALL.)

Anyway, after "discovery" he went for a whole bunch of tests.
One thing they found is that his hearing in the higher ranges is shot.
So, he can't hear a dog whistle, that's for sure.

But he certainly could hear my voice. He just chose to ignore me!


---GGG

[GoatGal]

Lois=Heather.

Got it.

[GoatGal]

"It's A Rooster Thang"! Here's something weird, what do YOU make of it?

Over the last few weeks, H has developed a real animosity towards our "younger" rooster, Poe.

His father, Bart, is the flock king and Poe is his son.

When Poe got integrated into the flock several weeks ago, with all the hens, everything was peaceful.

Then there were some very minor dust-ups as Poe and Bart tried to establish dominance. It's normal any time new birds are introduced. Just a pecking order adjustment. H knows this. No blood, no injuries. Maybe just a little wounded pride on old Bart's part.

In the end, Poe ended up coming out on top, as Bart has a more retiring personality, and he is older.

My H made disparaging comments about him several times after this change in status was made clear, even though they were no longer fighting.

Yet, over time, Bart has wisely taken the high road, quietly collecting the "Best" ladies for himself, but without fighting or making a big show.
He has all the cool chicks, calmly protecting them, while Poe is chasing the girls, making a fool of himself, and mating like crazy. But I have seen zero fighting in weeks.

I have mentioned this to H, saying everyone seems fine in chicken-land nowadays, no worries, they're all happy! And they are!
(I'm here all day so I see it for myself. H is here for 20 minutes...)
--------------------------

I get this text tonight, H sounds almost irate:
"When you go tomorrow (to the poultry swap meet) PLEASE take Poe with you!!!!!!!"
(So he can end up in somebody's stew pot?)

(No response from me, I don't see a problem. VERY unlike H to talk about getting rid of any animal.)

Another text from him: "Poe is a ASS!!! I want him GONE!!!"

(Again, I ignore. Wondering WTF? Also, not sure how to respond. Maybe he's DRUNK? This is a chicken, acting like a chicken. What's with all the "He's an ASS" stuff? Bizarre. Just a few weeks ago H was saying how happy he was that we were able to keep Poe. He's a stunning bird, huge, the girls love him!)

Last text from H: "If you don't take him tomorrow, then I want your permission to send him for the BIG SLEEP next weekend!!!!!"

(Again, I ignore this. H is not the type to kill ANYTHING. He's a practically a freakin' VEGAN. He saves little trees, for Pete's sake. They're planted all over the place. He loves his little orphan saplings. I'm serious. Yet he wants to kill this rooster who is one of the nicest we've ever had? Weird!)

Fortunately, H seemed to run out of venom after this last bit.

BI-ZARRO!!!!

---------------------------------------------

IF he revisits this tomorrow, which he may not, my plan is:

I'll just get "his side", ask him what he's seen to make him think that Poe DESERVES TO DIE!!!! and validate, validate.

Then I will say:
"Wow. I didn't realize you felt so strongly about that. Are you sure you really want to KILL HIM?"
But in a really really non-confrontational, validating way.

And then I will simply disagree.

THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM BETWEEN THE ROOSTERS!

I think this is a classic case of projection.
So says Dr. GumbyGoatGal!!!

I think H feels displaced from his home, (maybe even his wife!), and worries that younger, more virile, and finely feathered specimens might be lining up to take his place.
And maybe he SHOULD!

Can you say: "Cockfight"??????


---GGG

[juliegayle]

GIG

Just read through this thread. I have to say that although I am sorry you are here I am REALLY enjoying reading your posts!

"Poe is an ass" ???? How would one ever reply to such crazy talk...

[juliegayle]

Ughhh meant GGG spell check got the better of me again

[BrightFuture]

I was laughing so hard when I was reading this. This rooster really got under your H’s skin, haha. I think you are right about the projection. I think it goes along with him felling old and not being able to chase the “chicks” like he could when he was young.

I really love your sense of humor.

[Ggrass]

Lets see, h doesn't want to be living with you to stressful right?

Can't do farm chores, to busy? Right

So he wants to tell you h ow many chickens your allowed and which ones to chop? Mmmm control issue anyone? Lol
Projection anyone?

Me I would keep the rooster, just to prove its gg decision which rooster stays. but then I'm like that don't tell me I can't, it just makes. Want it more.

[beatrice]

Wow - I have seen some crazy stuff over the years, but that is right up there with them. Let me get this right - your spouse is challenged by a rooster?? Is he for real?

Like me you have an older MLCer - when they get it later in life it seems to be super irrational. My xh's hobby is now suing me, or threatening to. for anything he didn't get first time around.

You are such a refreshing new voice. Please keep posting. I wonder if the rooster went what he would fasten on next? The goldfish perhaps?

[LoisB]

Poor Poe. It's one thing to have your Dad act all MLC-crazy and shid, but another for him to want to axe you...literally.

G, you may have some hefty bills for rooster therapy in the future. Some serious projection is going on. Are the other chickens supportive? Understanding?

We had a rogue rooster, Hamlet, he attacked me, my mother and a few other people. I actually had to go to the ER because he got my foot pretty badly.

I never put his behavior together with Smokey's...Hmmm...

You are such a refreshing new voice. Please keep posting.

I agree :-)

[daring]

Only in the land of MLC does a man find a young strapping rooster as threatening!!!
Then again, could there be some c@ck envy???
Sorry I couldn't resist!! 😉

Seriously this cracked me up that he was so emphatic about it.
You really are providing awesome comic relief!

I'm thinking some if us girls should do a DB weekend meetup. We could rent a cabin and trade amoeba stories while drinking wonderful wine and dancing! ( b/c I am like you- have music will shake it!)

[GoatGal]

Rooster Update:
I went to speak to H briefly about today's schedule; no need except I wanted to get close enough so he could take me in:
(All happy, looking nice, smelling nice, bubbly and upbeat, off to spend the day doing fun things with friends!)

He sort of rambled on at me about himself and his roommate... I listened actively, validated, wasn't going to bring up the rooster thing at all.

So I end first, "Well, guess I'll won't see you later, so enjoy this beautiful day!"
As I'm walking (sashaying) away, he calls:
"Hey, what are *you* going to *do* about Poe??"

Me--cool as a cucumber--"Yeah, I was going to ask you what you've been observing that concerns you."


He goes on about how Bart is so "sad" and "lonely" and he doesn't have "any female company anymore."

(Seriously, I could not make this up if I tried! OK, maybe I could. . )

So I say: "Hmmm. So you're saying you've seen him off by himself, sort of on the outside looking in?"

Him: "Pretty much",

Me: "I've seen that sometimes too. Maybe during the time you're here you just get a little "snapshot" of their behavior. Have you seen any aggression?"

Him: "No..."

Me: "Me neither. In fact, I've seen Bart mating and hanging out with all my favorite hens. When I've seen him alone, he's been on protection mode while Poe is off doing who knows what. Bart is crowing, and seems pretty content to me. Deep down I think he is still the "King."
(Like how I spun that?)

Him: "I guess my view was just a "snapshot" (used my word). I'm glad to know he's not alone."

And off I went!!

PS: Poe happens to be a huge, handsome, young, black male.
And so is a friend of mine who attends a lot of the same events I do.

There were some photos of him and of the two of us on my FB page recently with funny comments exchanged.
Clean as a whistle, I'm a class act.

H is no longer on FB, but his "work wife" and mutual friend is, among other people we have in common.
I wonder if Poe is a surrogate for my muscular Pal?

Hmmmmm....????


---GGG

[LoisB]

PS: Poe happens to be a huge, handsome, young, black male.
And so is a friend of mine who attends a lot of the same events I do.

No shid?? Seriously??

HA!!!!!

[Ggrass]

^^^^ what she said x 2!

[GoatGal]

SERIOUSLY!

Anyhow. Funny, huh?

Today I had a lovely day in the rural countryside.

It started off at a poultry group swap meet with all kinds of people and amazing birds.
Met up with a new dance pal who is also a neighbor and fellow chicken fancier.
We spent some time at his house with his family, checking out his chickens and quail, gardens, fruit trees and herbs. Then we tried tasting and macerating, extracting and blending different herbal and fruit concoctions.

Afterwards, it was off to a real country fair with my pal and his sister, where they had tractor square dancing, animals, music, food, crazy antique machinery, kooky people...

Heather, I thought of you when I scoped the muscle cars. They had a cherry Chevy SS ragtop (ugly copper color though).
Lots of old American cars 1920-1975 or so.
You should have been there!

Anyhow, I ate like a pig and really enjoyed it.
Another friend is a blacksmith and he had a booth, a bunch of people I know were hanging out there by his portable forge, playing with red hot iron and steel.
And they had some chickens there, too!

We had a beautiful drive home, radio on and all the windows open, through lush, green rolling cornfields interspersed with picturesque small towns, stands of woodlands and single lane bridges.

I'm a NYC gal, so all of this "country" stuff is still fresh for me!


Got home after H had left, but he'd done most of the chores, so I could chill out a bit.

Three texts from him so far plus he left a long note. (He is not one to write)

Seems he was given a free cemetery plot due to a raffle for veterans he'd entered last year. He left the notice on the table:
"Gee, you think somebody is giving me a hint?"

That's the first joke he's made in ages---granted, it wasn't in person, but still.

He plans another long bicycle ride tomorrow and I'm glad for him. He really needs it.
Then he'll be up here doing chores.

I'll keep you posted!

------GGG

[Ggrass]

Sounds like you had a great weekend. I went to my friends and she got a new pussy! Well a kitten. We had pizza for lunch and went shopping for kitten things like litter and food.

[GoatGal]

Well, I'm still pretty detached!

It was hardly a blip on my radar when H showed up this morning.
I took my time and eventually stepped outside, knowing he was somewhere working.
He was right there and brightly said "Good morning!"

I asked him how his bike ride went this morning, and he again said he was exhausted. He looked wiped.

Some chit-chat about the bicycles... whether or not I should take my bike to the shop for a tune-up because he's so busy...he kept saying it didn't need much done to it, he'd look at it for me, tune it up if he found the time.

I was very appreciative, NO PRESSURE... saying:
"That would be great since I know you are a Pro yourself" (He is),
"But don't worry about it, I won't need it for a few weeks. Even if you only get a bit done, it will save on the shop costs since the basics will be done."

I basically said if he has the time, I'd really appreciate it, but if not, that's OK too!
---------------------------------------

Doing something like this for me was always one of his 5 LL, he's big on Acts of Service, and it is definitely one of his best skills, so I can affirm the heck out of him for whatever he does and it will be sincere praise.

I *THINK* he might have thought I was riding with some guy since he was sort of nasty when I first asked him to get my bike down from the garage rack. That's the same day he threw his bike in the back of his truck when he left!
He seemed mad that day--but it got him out riding again, so that's great.

(And no, not a chance in hell he would have done that on his own, except to show me that he "can go riding too!!!!" )

Today I thought I'd take some of the "scary" out of it for him, and mentioned that it was my BFF; she was the one I was going to be riding with, starting off on the trail where he road this morning.
So I asked him--should I take the road or mountain bike??? Some discussion about that.

I might be projecting but he seemed relieved...about it not being "A GUY".

Although it does no harm to let him know that I'm not sitting alone at home pining away, and that there are male friends involved, I don't think it would be helpful for him to get the idea that I'm getting involved with someone.

First of all, because I'm NOT, and second of all, because I think he is intimidated enough without thinking he has serious competition.
-------------------------------

He wanted to visit with the dogs before he left, and interestingly, he yelled to let me know he was coming upstairs into "my" area, whereas last week and prior he just walked on up.
(That walking in unannounced annoyed me, I felt like he thought he was entitled or something. It felt like an invasion of my privacy.)

I don't know if letting me know he's coming into my space is a good or bad sign in terms of our R, but it was something I was going to ask him to start doing again, so it's just as well.
Maybe it's showing me a bit more respect, not assuming he can just cross my boundaries?
---------------------------------------

When he was here in the living area with the dogs, I busied myself with dishes, etc., pretty much ignored him except for minimal, upbeat conversation.
I really didn't feel like engaging at all, to tell you the truth.
I felt very detached. I really didn't care that he was here, when he would leave, or anything else.

No doubt he can feel this very distinctly. It's not an act. It's a definite vibe.
I'm happy without him. That much is crystal clear.

He came over and started talking to my back as I was at the sink washing dishes and singing along to the happy music I had playing.
I didn't really stop washing when H started talking; it wasn't required.
But I acknowledged him, answered his questions, etc.

My responses were pretty much: "Um--uh-huh. Wow. OK..."
I wasn't deliberately tuning him out for effect--I was BUSY and he was interrupting.

(I have to be careful about this though, one of my 180s has been to be more open to interruption.
It's an ADD/Aspie thing.)
---------------------------------

I *Think* that due to his intimacy issues (documented) that he PREFERS to talk to me while I can't really engage because I'm cleaning, or involved in something; it creates the distance he needs to feel comfortable.
Instead, he prefers to talk on the phone.
(Preferably with me in another state!)
Or work side-by-side on projects with little talk at all.

Too bad for me because I need Quality Time, Physical Touch, and Words of Affirmation. I lost out on ALL THREE with him over the years.

If I were to stop, dry my hands, and give him my undivided attention, historically, he would be somewhat uncomfortable with that "intensity", especially if we were actually "connecting". God forbid!
This is one thing I can no longer live with.
----------------------------------------

The flip side of that is now he talks AT me, going on and on, seeming to build himself up about WORK.

This is funny because he knows I value kindness over EVERYTHING, particularly over the ability to make money, yet he pretty much dropped the ball on embodying that value.
Yet providing for me and his "kids" is one of his LL, it is truly an Act of Service. Hmmmmm.......

And along that "money making" line, as he was (talking to my back) he started asking about my DJ gig this coming weekend.
At first I thought:
"Cool, he's interested."

But then he was asking how much I got paid, for how many hours, calculating the total out loud... I said there was also the $200 free event admission to calculate in... etc.

I just didn't engage, didn't see the real point of the discussion.
It is irrelevant to him, and to me, unless his goal was to contrast our earning potentials.
(Can you say "Alimony"????)
He wasn't asking me about what I'd be playing, only about HOW MUCH I WOULD BE EARNING, because we both know he makes the big bacon, and I never will!
-----------------------------------

It was only after the fact that I started asking myself if he was making a "comparison" between my ability to earn money and his own. Perhaps.
(Seriously?)

I didn't detect a snide tone or anything, but it falls in line with many of the conversations we've had.
Mulling it over, I think it was another version of the same "tooting his own horn" effort at building himself up.

He's all like:
"Yeah, I make good money, I'm so good at what I do, I'm golden, getting a raise/bonus, nobody else is, I'm so important."

Yawn....
Yes, I do my "Words of Affirmation" but it's not very attractive when someone does it for himself so my input is redundant.

I get that his self-esteem has suffered as a result of all this. How could it not?

I now know that he has always struggled with feeling inadequate, so probably that's where it comes from. It's just sad that he feels he has to do this.

Whereas, I'm the opposite. I'm confident and secure in myself. Always was. Always hope to be.
Maybe that's what attracted him to me at first, but also intimidated him.
(Not mind reading, just postulating!!! )
----------------------------------

I find myself tonight with no expectations from him whatsoever.

And that feels good.

---GGG

[AJM]

You seem to be tuned in to the dynamics and feelings, although somewhat detached from the outcome (that's a good thing, BTW.)

So I wonder, GGG, what do you do with that information?


AJ

[Wonka]

GGG,

Just a tidbit from my MLC experience. While in the midst of our MLC, we need to inflate our sense of self-importance because of our depression and sense that we've accomplished NOTHING. Something to keep in mind the next time H toots his horn.

[Wonka]

Another thing, GGG, that I'd like to add here about your recent ah-so funny posts about Poe.

I don't need to read the morning funnies nor watch any of the Seinfeld reruns because I have the GGG channel to fill me up!!! I get my laughs right here and it's all right in my world.

I think that's the true reason Bea is begging you to keep posting here. She's too nice and classy to state the obvious!!!

[GoatGal]

AJM-- I don't really have a "use" for the information at the moment. Perhaps I never will.
It's just filed under: "Things Which May Make Sense Down the Road."

As I go through this process, I've been looking back a lot, at our individual and shared histories.

Little things I never gave much thought, or really understood, are becoming clear now.

There is a big picture developing about H, and about me... and these current observations are simply a part of that.

I am a very analytical person and I like to have all the information I can handle.

It's INTERESTING!

And Wonka, so glad I can crack you up!

I crack MYSELF up!

The weird part is, most people think I'm pretty funny, but H never thought so.

In fact, he even said (in the throes of his infidelity discovery):

"YOU'RE NOT "funny". I don't know why other people find you funny. You've never been funny. OW made me laugh. SHE made me HAPPY."

Well, that's when I knew he'd lost it.
Most people find me entertaining, with the exception of him, my mother (no sense of humor either), and people who have a stick up their butts/are angry at the world.

Oh---wait! That's my mother AND my H!!!!

My sister said of him after this whole debacle:
"I never told you because we all loved him, but he is one of the angriest people I've ever met. "

I thought this was amazing since they got along so well, very close.
I never saw that anger, I guess he let it all hang out with my sister.
----------------------------------

But, Wonka, I believe what you said about MLC dumping self-esteem into the toilet. It makes sense.

How on earth can he feel good about himself after all he's done?
I know he has a conscience and it's starting to bug him.

He hurt me deeply, he hurt the OW (less sympathy for her because regardless of her problems, she had a CHOICE), he has hurt our family, friends, future, jeopardized his job, and lost respect from ALL the people who know about this. (Basically all the people he's close to.)

He knows he has destroyed my trust and respect.

If he follows through with this divorce, we will lose our house, and these animals will be gone...

I don't think his self-esteem was great to begin with, and this has really done a number on it.
----------------------------------------------

I remember hearing the Simon and Garfunkle song "I Am a Rock" a few months ago, and I sent him a text saying:

"This makes me think of you. "A rock feels no pain, and an island never cries...."

It's because of how he distanced himself from me, from everything he cared about, in order to protect himself over the years.

MLC is a part of it, but that intimacy problem has always been there.
He keeps people at a distance, won't be vulnerable, won't ask for help, won't share... keeps barriers and walls in place.

Anyhow, his response to that text was:
"A rock...an island... No, more like a pebble..."

He has also (early on after I discovered OW) said he was:
"A coward, weak, made so many mistakes, will die alone for what I have done."

Somehow that got replaced with:
"Divorce is all the closure you'll get. "

Oh well....

------------------------------------


OK. This post is not funny, so let me tell you this story!!! I need to end on a positive note.

We've got some dead trees on the property that need to be cut down, so I called the tree guys to get that done.

He sent me a text (all thumbs) about it saying:
"They are only doing wives on weekends"

I sent back: "Hahahaha! What???"

Him: "They only are doing work on weekends."

Me: "I liked 'they are only doing wives on weekends' better! Hahaha!"

Thinking this was funny, you know, they are two guys, they provide a "specialty service"... you know. Funny, right?
So I was surprised that his end of the convo went dead.

For the rest of the night, until the next afternoon.

I was *thinking* he was p*ssed about something, so I'm trying to figure out if I'd done something to trigger this.

I re-read the texts---and then it HIT ME.

"Only doing wives on weekends."

Well, that was a complaint I had about H!!!

He ONLY ever wanted to have sex on the weekend afternoons. FOR DECADES.

Never in the morning, never at night, never more than once a week... I hated this but finally gave up.

Of course, he was at work with OW and they were hooking up in broom closets on weekdays, and whenever they could get an overnight at a hotel.

(And he was SO happy to rub this in my face, how he loved to ML to her in the morning, how he "held HER all night long..." Of course, he did this with me at first too, which I reminded him about, but he denied that ever happened. Yeah, right....)

So---I'm thinking HE read my joke/funny take on it as an insult. Not intentional on my part necessarily, but maybe it hit him.

"I only did my wife on the weekends, weekdays were reserved for my Ho-worker!!!!'

And that's my joke of the day.


---GGG

[rayzzz]

"I only did my wife on the weekends, weekdays were reserved for my Ho-worker!!!!'

That is classic!

I know you have been through rough stuff but I am glad you can have some cheers to go with those days with tears.
and remember this;

"Everything always sounds HAPPIER on ukulele!"

so start uking girl and I will sing the harmonies from here...in Bb major 7th...!!.:D

[GoatGal]

Everyone talks about "Bomb Drop", as being so earth-shattering.

I must be weird or something.

For me, when I got "The Speech", it didn't register as very serious.
It sounded like a lot of whining about things that were fixable at the time.

I didn't believe it, to tell you the truth!

(Of course, I didn't know about OW and how that all played into it.)

He said we'd go for counseling, and I let it go, just tried to be more supportive, etc.

I realized he was under a lot of stress, we talked about that, that he was depressed, I really chalked it all up to stressors and depression. I assumed that things would improve, that it was just a phase, and I didn't judge our marriage by one bad patch.

I always saw a M as a living thing, with ups and downs, and changes. So it didn't rock me to my core as others have described.

Little did I know!

It was really setting the stage for him taking OW on a long trip. The trip that I supported because he "needed to get away to be on his own and think".

Dummy I am...

Interestingly, I DID NOT PURSUE AT THIS POINT.
We talked about spending more time together, making that a priority, but it never happened.

He picked fights during this time, was very emotionally abusive to me. Pursuing him was the last thing on my mind. And over time, spending any time with him was also not an attractive option.

So I was PMAing and GALing since then--until I found OW and then the sh*t hit the fan--big time. I also found all the porn, the webcam... it got ugly.

Then he really wanted to run. He has no coping skills to deal with the raw emotion and pain from me.
Enter The BIG D.

But honesty at that BD point I was already feeling pretty detached from HIM.
So hearing him say those words didn't shock me. I was close to saying them myself, I can see that now.

I think I was getting dangerously close to being a WAW myself.

Not with an OM-- just going out to buy groceries and never coming home.
I fantasized about that often. I'd forgotten that.

I wasn't happy with HIM, although I was happy with myself and my life.

I am so much more at peace with him gone. There was a lot of negativity there, for a long time.

And that's the pure, unvarnished truth, as I see it clearly today.

I realize now I was lonelier with him than I am not without him.


---GGG

[GoatGal]

"I realize now that I was lonelier with him than I am now without him."

Is what that was supposed to say.

Boy, this board gets crazy from 6-9! Bogging down with all you folks out there busting divorces like nobody's business!


---GGG

[GoatGal]

rayzzz-- Bb is MY KEY!!!!!


And yes, I already did my Uking for the day.

Lots of good songs have come out of this for me.

Interestingly, I never had the rawness I needed to pull off those big torchy blues songs.
But NOW---Honey! I am killing it vocally!

Some songs have much more meaning for me, and communicating that emotion is the most important part of performing any song to me.

Funny, a song I wrote (when H was with OW but I didn't know), was all about being "Better Off Alone"...

I don't know where it came from, subconsciously I knew something I guess.
But doing it now--it's downright autobiographical.

I should post the lyrics here:

One line is:

"And I--deserve better.. than wondering whether...today.. is the day you might call...

And now.. when I think of your kisses....I find... I hardly... miss them... at all..."

And there you have it, Ladies and Gentlemen.

---GGG

[Wonka]

GGG,

Boy, this board gets crazy from 6-9! Bogging down with all you folks out there busting divorces like nobody's business!

I'm afraid that your amoeba experiment is taking up most of the bandwidth here!!

-Hypothesizing
-Observing
-Postulating
-Collecting cow gas

Yeah...made the last one up!

On to a more serious note....


"I realize now that I was lonelier with him than I am now without him."


Read that over in Ray's thread. How do you feel about that statement? Do you think that there's a possibility that your theory of postulate that H is moving away from painful stimuli is indeed as close to being accurate as you can get here.

Thoughts? Ruminations?

Oh my..what have I done here!!?

[GoatGal]

Wonka, I don't understand what you meant below:

"I realize now that I was lonelier with him than I am now without him."


Read that over in Ray's thread. How do you feel about that statement? Do you think that there's a possibility that your theory of postulate that H is moving away from painful stimuli is indeed as close to being accurate as you can get here.

Thoughts? Ruminations?

Oh my..what have I done here!!?

I'm confused...it happens sometimes. Did you mean rayzzz?

--GGG

[GoatGal]

I feel my statement is true.
Today.

I did feel lonelier when he was here, also more stressed.
This was before I found OW, but that feeling probably started when he began cheating on me and being mean.

Prior to that, he ignored me, pretty much all the time for almost two years.

So, yeah. It's easier to be alone than to be with someone with so much negative energy.

I don't understand why me being more comfortable on my own would have anything to do with him avoiding stimuli though.

?

[Wonka]

Wonka, I don't understand what you meant below:

"I realize now that I was lonelier with him than I am now without him."

What are your thoughts on that comment you made over in Ray's thread (rayzzz)?


Read that over in Ray's thread. How do you feel about that statement? Do you think that there's a possibility that your theory of postulate that H is moving away from painful stimuli is indeed as close to being accurate as you can get here.

Thoughts? Ruminations?

Oh my..what have I done here!!?

I was ribbing here as I know you are noteworthy for your ruminations that come out as long posts. I love them!

I'm confused...it happens sometimes. Did you mean rayzzz?

Nope. You were obviously referring to your H when you made that comment in rayzzz's thread.

--GGG

[Wonka]

GGG,

I can see how and why you are confused here. Nothing to do with you being comfortable on your own at all.

I don't understand why me being more comfortable on my own would have anything to do with him avoiding stimuli though

What I meant by avoiding stimuli is that he might be moving away from porn and trying to reconnect with you by viewing you as a "normal" woman..not the pornofied version as you say here.

Is this more clearer now?

[Wonka]

Chit! I think I mangled my intent badly in the recent post. Blame it on being a late night and my brain isn't at the its most optimal level.

In the past you felt alone even with H around due to his negative energy and skewed view due to his porno addiction. What I am saying here is that it is possible that H is making attempts to move away from negative stimuli (porno). If that is indeed happening per your theory of moving away from negative stimuli postulate, then I wonder if you would feel more comfortable knowing that H, in his own way, is working on himself and his issues in that particular arena?

You state in Ray's thread that H will need to clean up his chit before you would even consider piecing the M with him. I think, based on what you write here in the DB clipboard, that H is trying to make a sincere effort, in his own way, by making that mystery medical appointment that took FOREVER to complete.

See what I am trying to say here, GGG?

[AJM]

I am willing to do my part, but he's got to do his, and then we'd have to do ours together.

Enough about him. I get it. Why on earth would you want to be with somebody who treats you like that?

I've met a lot of people that lived with a cheating (sometimes MLC) spouse. They thought they were crazy. I was one of them that lived with a cheating spouse and almost ended up in the rubber room trying to figure out what was wrong with ME. I see that as a normal part of a relationship with somebody who's cheating. If normal can be applied to the situation.

Let's face it, it's not the betrayal you can't get over.

That said, what is YOUR part to do? What gives the marriage a chance? What makes you a better person than when this started with or without the relationship? I honestly think that's much more important and it allows you to release control over the outcome of the situation. A great stress reducer, if you ask me

AJ

[beatrice]

Bomb drop sometimes happens well into MLC so they are already being strange and distant, and frankly not very loveable. I think the earlier it happens, or the faster MLC comes on, the more blindsided we are.

I can see if you spouse has been behaving like a jerk for some time, his going away would be a relief.

How is the rooster? (the young one!)

[GoatGal]

OK. Thanks guys!
I'll start with AJM.


"Why on earth would I want to be with someone who treats me like that?"
I wouldn't.

In the past it was so insidious and I didn't know what was really going on.
It's only now with hindsight that I see how it got so bad and how I slowly adapted (and disconnected) over time.
I knew that he looked at porn and had suspicions, but he'd always had a "low sex drive" since we met, so there was no change in frequency, just a change in how it felt emotionally. Again, this happened slowly.

We don't easily recognize the process of gradual aging in ourselves, because we're seeing our faces in the mirror every day. When we see a friend we haven't seen in 20 years, it's a surprise.
It's like that.
My experience has been like seeing a picture of myself at 20 and one from today, and saying:
"How did this happen? How did I not notice?"

When changes are slowly made over time, they sort of sneak up on you.
I didn't realize until now how much I was squelching how I felt.

I don't say "unhappy" because I WASN'T.
I'm a happy person, I have lots of joy in my life.
My R with H was based on respect, trust, I thought he had this wonderful character, "sterling", I always called him.
He was the best guy I knew.
(Not much in the sack, but hey--I could live with that. And I did. Because I didn't know what he was really up to.)
-----------------------------------------

I trusted him completely, I never spoke ill of him, either to others or to his face.
I always had his back and he always had mine.
I never cheated, not even close. I was completely open and honest with him.

And when I expressed any dissatisfaction with our R, he resorted to blaming, deflecting, manipulating the heck out of me, picking a fight... my Aspie social skills are better now, but back then, I didn't clue into what he was doing.
It's typical addict behavior--the deception.

On the other hand, he was very kind to me, did things for me all the time, was actively trying to speak HIS love languages to me--but they weren't mine so I felt frustrated.
I wanted his time and attention and physical affection. Those were things I had to learn to live without for the most part.
I tried to express my love for him, but not knowing about the 5 LL, I was missing that brass ring. But I did express love in my LL, but they were rebuffed... sometimes with anger...and he made it plain he didn't need or want what I was offering. He seemed so independent, not needing anything from me.

He wouldn't accept love, or help, or kindness. He only wanted to give it, and then only in very specific, rigid ways.
-------------------------------------

I still don't believe he's done any of this to hurt me. I don't think it's about me.
And I don't think it's because of me either.
Neither the porn, the lies, the affair, the MLC... it's all on him.

He struggles with issues that have nothing to do with me, except that as his wife, I'm in the same boat with him.

Looking back, I can see how easily I was convinced that what he told me was true.
Now I think of things he said (I never forgot them) and understand those statements for the deflections they were.

So I really didn't KNOW until recently what the truth was.
No surprise he wants to be rid of me.
Now I know the truth, and he has nowhere else to hide.
-------------------------------------

As for my part. I'm hardly perfect.
I hate housework and I am a SAH Pet/Farm Mom.
I struggle with certain things due to my ADD/Asperger's.

My conditions are mild, I was only diagnosed in my early 40's. My mother still doesn't believe it!
I have a back injury and chronic pain which makes bending and lifting and manual labor painful.
Yet I do it any way. I do not let him see how this affects me.
In the past, I used to. No doubt he thinks I've been "cured". Hardly.

However, I compensate extremely well as far as getting things done, staying organized, etc.
And I have been attending therapy and getting support for years.
I am highly motivated to continue to improve throughout my life and most people would have no clue of my diagnoses. I am more than willing to conquer my own chit for myself.
(Not because of DBing, but because I've always been like that.)

If I can be better, or make it better, I'm going to work on that.
---------------------------------------

Regardless of any challenges I may have, I have always been a good wife to him, and I have done nothing to "justify" his treatment of me. I have been loving, available, sexually open, kind, willing to listen and make changes as needed. But he never asked for anything. He didn't complain or express unhappiness.

We always say "No mind reading". Well, I wasn't good at it before BD either!

So if he never said anything about his "miserable marriage" before he started cheating on me with OW, (at which point he became a total A**hat... and I was at a loss as to what was going on), how was I supposed to "get it"?
He wasn't acting differently, just a slow, insidious withdrawal that pretty much mirrored my own.
The difference being he was miserable, and I was still happy, because I was getting my emotional needs met elsewhere in healthy ways.
I would have preferred having a least half of my emotional needs met with my husband, but that wasn't a choice I had.
----------------------------

So back to the original question:

I would only want a R with a man who truly had the qualities I believe my H still has deep down, and who is willing and able to dump a lot of his baggage. For himself, and for us.
It's holding him back from being happy, and it is preventing him from having a fulfilling R with anyone, not just me.

If he is not willing to do that, then I am not willing to continue a R with him.

-----GGG

[Wonka]

GGG,

I would only want a R with a man who truly had the qualities I believe my H still has deep down, and who is willing and able to dump a lot of his baggage. For himself, and for us.

We all have our baggage. The trick, I believe, is being able to learn to live with WHICH kinds of baggage the spouse brings in the M. So in your case, which specific kinds of baggage that YOU are not willing to accept in regard to H other than porn?

Porn is the obvious baggage that is weighing down the M and himself frankly. It is within his control to address and I think he's just begun to do so with that mysterious "forever" medical appointment a few days ago. What do you think?

[GoatGal]

You're right, Wonka.

And I have my own baggage, obviously. But I try not to let that weigh me down or define me. I actively work on that now, and I always have.

Things I can't live with:

Constant emotional distance. I can handle plenty, but we need to connect more often.

Inability to cooperate, communicate, plan and work as a team so we can get things done. (He resists plans, agreeing to anything...) Plan ahead to complete projects, compromise, etc. We are in the middle of a whole-house remodel. I live in chaos. This is a must.

The tendency to see any disagreement/suggestion as criticism. So it's impossible to come to agreement about things. I don't bother about little things, but when it comes to our health/welfare and that of our animals, there IS a right and a wrong way to do things! (I'm talking SAFETY here.)

Unwilling to communicate his needs and wants. Wants me to 'just know".

Stubborn resistance to change, to adapt, to try something new.

Unwilling to look awkward, cut loose, and just enjoy.

Inability to process his emotions and express them constructively, instead resenting me for things that are not my fault.

Dishonesty/secrecy/hiding

Passive/covert aggression, manipulation.

Porn and OW or any "cheating"

Unwilling to learn new behaviors so he can meet more of MY needs in the R, physically, emotionally, sexually.

Unwilling to compromise in general. He just says "I don't want to". End of discussion. If I push it, historically he'd blame me and send me off on a tangent.
I'm wise to that now.

This is just what I dashed off---and I don't like it because it all focuses on him and all the negatives.

I think it would be more constructive to frame this positively in terms of what I do want from him, specifically.

So I'm not going to delete this "list of his faults" as I would like, because these are the things I am no longer willing to have in my M to the extent that they have been.

I don't expect perfection or a total change, but baby steps towards improvement that occurs over time, with no return to the way things were.

If not, I'd rather be alone.

---GGG

[GoatGal]

And as for his "mystery appointment", I really don't know what it was.

I may never know. But it was something... and the Sunday before he started to say something important, then trailed off...


If he wants me to know about it, he'll tell me when he feels the time is right.

IF that's what it was, it's going to take some time for him to digest what they tell him, and see if he feels there is any hope for him to improve his ability to be in a real R with a woman. And of course, there would be a lot of treatment and work for him to do.


I do HOPE however. I really do!


And as for the "baggage" again.

It's OK to have it, as long as it's not too heavy to get on the airplane.

He would have to learn to cope with it, and not let his fears and phobias continue to hinder his ability to enjoy life.

---GGG

[rayzzz]

I only have hugs for you GGG.....but they are pretty orangutang in nature and hard to slip out of....with that soothing hairy ape like fragrance....breathe it in

Clearly this excruciating time with WAH has given you the eyes of a hawk to map out what is lacking and what you have done in yourself to make this boat of a M seaworthy. The detachment stage you are at is phenomenal and I am guessing this is making the "we will see" period a bit easier as you have remarked on how he is making some subtle changes.
Keep that guard up and your happy confident self in that free falling GAL mode.
You are doing it....now this oranguatang is gonna see if he can strum out a happy Uke tune of patience and deleirous joy for you.

[GoatGal]

rayzzz---

Isn't there a "LIKE" button on this thing?


---GGG

[GoatGal]

Bea,

Admit it, you have a virtual crush on my Poe!!!

(Named after Edgar Allen, he looks like a Crow-Chicken on steroids. If he were a man... well, I'd have a little crush on him too, at least until the novelty wore off!)

Dr. Freud would have a lot to say on THAT one. ;0

Anyhow, Poe is doing great, has a lot of chicks, and runs away like a scaredy cat when I flap my arms at him.

Bart now comes to see me all the time, and although he is not yet eating out of my hand, I see him coming closer all the time.

H still doesn't like Poe, and every now and then I see Poe giving Bart a run for his money over the ladies.

-------------------

I definitely see another analogy here.

Poe represents all the young males out there who H might be threatened by.
Of course, I know they're no threat to him.
They're just ego-boosters and diversions.
Some are friends and will be friends for life.
I've always had male friends, and I am still friendly with old boyfriends, not like we hang out, but we're still in contact about their kids, travels, families, that sort of thing.
Which to me is one indicator that my previous relationships were healthy with healthy people.
People I still like and respect, and visa-versa. Nothing flirty or inappropriate. EVER.
These relationships have always been very transparent and above-board.
H has also had women friends over the years. I never had a problem with it and jealousy for me was nonexistent. (Until OW, that is. Then I had a reason to be jealous and angry.)

Bart represents my H. More passive, older, less apt to assert himself.
Who is being displaced to some degree from the kingdom he used to rule alone.
Now he has competition from younger males... and he doesn't like it.
On the other hand, he WON'T FIGHT FOR HIS KINGDOM, EITHER.
---------------------------------
Crap!

Now I don't know if H is a:
paramecium
amoeba
St. Bernard
rabid squirrel
or a cock-a-doodle-y dang rooster!

(Now that I think of it, H is nothing like a St. Bernard. He's more like a Llasa Apso...)

I think there also might be an Orangutan in there too.
(I love me some hairy apes. Especially the super-smart ones. )

This experiment is getting complicated!

I need to restrict my subject pool.
(Or at least my metaphors.)

Maybe a poll is required.

Would you all prefer to hear about roosters, dog training, amoebas, or squirrels? Or Orangs?


---GGG

[GoatGal]

Wonka: The Final Answer:

W: "In the past you felt alone even with H around due to his negative energy and skewed view due to his porno addiction. What I am saying here is that it is possible that H is making attempts to move away from negative stimuli (porno)."

Hmmmm....
I hope that's the case.
However, I'm not sure if he sees porn as a "negative".
I hope that he might be seeing the effects of it on his life, and on his life with me.
How it has impacted his ability to be "real" in our M, and affected his abilities in the bedroom.
I think he is addicted, and that it disgusts him, that's the typical scenario.

Every porn addict I've spoken with has said that there is a strong element of self-disgust, shame... they hate what they're doing when it gets to this point.

But they also keep doing it because it makes them feel "good".
Until they get disgusted again. Just like any addiction.
-----------------------------

W: "If that is indeed happening per your theory of moving away from negative stimuli postulate, then I wonder if you would feel more comfortable knowing that H, in his own way, is working on himself and his issues in that particular arena?"

I *think* me backing off from encouraging him to get help has allowed him to feel that it's HIS CHOICE to do so, IF in fact that's what he's doing.

In any case, he can no longer blame me for his unhappiness.
If he is unhappy with his life and his porn problem, he has only to look at himself at this point.
I *think* this might be what is happening, since he has now said several things to indicate that he is not "happy" now with the way things are.

And yes, it would make me feel more comfortable. Validated.
It would mean that--regardless of what he's said:
IT'S NOT ME!!! (Which I always knew.)
Like all PAs, he tried to blame his "problem" on me or the M.
Since he was the one with the all the hang-ups and the one who always turned me down for sex, I don't think this is the case.

I would respect him greatly for taking that step for himself.
It would mean he is deciding to be brave and face things instead of running from them.
I would be proud of him, and very encouraged.

I understand that if this happens, he's got to come to it on his own time, in his own way, because it's what HE wants for himself, not something he's doing for me.
That's the only way it's going to work.
---------------------------------

W: "You state in Ray's thread that H will need to clean up his chit before you would even consider piecing the M with him. I think, based on what you write here in the DB clipboard, that H is trying to make a sincere effort, in his own way, by making that mystery medical appointment that took FOREVER to complete."

I'd have to go back to rayzzz's thread to remember exactly what I said, but it was mostly about what I was unwilling to deal with any more in a R.

Yes, there are many things that he would have to be actively working on changing, as I am working on improving my end as much as I can.

And yes, he is definitely making some efforts, I can see by his actions.
But without having all the information it's hard to know how much is really positive change and how much I'm just guessing about.

The fact is-- I just don't know yet if those efforts are to possibly restore/rebuild our M, get closer to me and see if this issue can be resolved, or just so we can co-parent our "kids"--or--the worst--- so he can have better sex with women young enough to be his granddaughters! (No chit.)

Ah.... what 30 minutes of solid snooping would do to fill in the gaps!!
And I've thought of it, but stopped myself. For a whole bunch of reasons.

I am able to be patient until he wants to talk about it; IF he does.
------------------------------------

BTW-----

Hey, did I tell all you guys how much you mean to me?

Well, I am so grateful for my friends here at DBing.
You have really been a lifesaver for me. I think if it weren't for this board, I would be suffering still.
Instead, I feel empowered and on track with moving forward.

THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART!!! ((((((Hugs to All!)))))

---GGG

[GoatGal]

I'm posting the bit from rayzzz's thread here because it's relevant:


"Rayzzz,

I know for myself the emotions run up and down, from self-pity, to fear for my future and the future of my animals, to fury at him, anger at myself for not knowing more, for not doing things differently, for allowing myself to be taken advantage of in so many ways.

How could I not have realized this????

Lately my concern is, I don't think he's ever going to be what I need him to be.
This whole experience has made me examine our marriage and I see how, more from my end than his, how it was less than I deserved.


In order for me to be happy in this marriage, he would have to grow and change a great deal.

I'm not sure he'll want to do this, and even if he does, I'm not sure he'll be able to pull it off long-term.

I think about a future with a man who I no longer trust, who is quite a bit older with some health issues, who was able to treat me so terribly...

A man who refused to give me what I needed although I asked and asked until I just gave up. I have changed, for the better.

I am more aware of my faults, what makes me difficult to live with, what qualities in myself I value most, and which parts of myself I would like to keep improving.

I just don't see him putting in the work to do what's needed to pull this marriage out of the nosedive it's in...

We are no longer starting from whatever stagnant rut we were in pre-adultery.
Now there is all that to overcome before we can reach something approaching a valuable partnership; there is SO much work to be done.

I am willing to do my part, but he's got to do his, and then we'd have to do ours together.

I do know that I am no longer willing to put up with the emotional and physical neglect I felt from him, and to be manipulated so he could keep secrets from me.

I want MORE now.

I don't want the "good old H" back, I don't want the MCL/Betraying H in my life AT ALL.
I need a new and very-much-improved H for this to have any chance at all.

rayzzz, if it makes you feel any better, today I spent a good hour trash talking H out loud to myself!"


---GGG

[LoisB]

GoatG,

Smokey had issues with porn and left me for an anorexic drug addict, covered in tattoos with fake boobs. I think she was his "fantasy" come to life.

AND, more importantly...Our Rooster was named Hamlet...we had a hen named Kate Middleton, one named Pippa and another rooster named George...sadly...all but Kate were eaten by Foxes this past spring.

I wonder if they helped keep the snakes out of the flower bed? We have big problems now with lots and lots of snakes.

[beatrice]

I definitely have a big crush on Poe! As for snakes and chickens - snakes do not like them for sure. Which is a bit strange

[GoatGal]

A rooster's life is not an easy one.

Most don't even make it past the first three days, then 80% end up as soup.

Only the best make it long term, and of those, some die protecting their flock.

We've had a lot of snakes, some surprise me in the nest boxes. But that was before I had roosters.

I am comfortable handling snakes, and the last one I grabbed behind the head, took him down the hill, and chucked him into the woods.
(I had an audience for this, so of course it was quite dramatic. This was a very large black rat snake.)

He never came back after that experience, and he had been a regular visitor in search of fresh eggs.

But yeah, come to think of it, we always had lots of rat snakes, corn snakes, garter snakes. I haven't seen any in a few years. Maybe that did coincide with getting Bart on duty!


Beatrice, I'm going for noonday chores (late). I'll let Poe he has a fan.
I wish I could post a picture!

---GGG

[rayzzz]

hijacking my thread with your beautiful raw words of encouragement again GG for your own thread? I like it! You are making it girl and we are behind you...there's room for every db on the Bat-concord ( i know its 80s but it is roomie and flies fast!)

[GoatGal]

OK.... I snooped!

I realized we were no longer getting statements from our one credit card and I KNEW something was up with that.

I know I shouldn't have looked---but I just couldn't take it, the sneakiness...

So I found a six month subscription to "Our Time" dating site for singles over 50.

It took me five minutes to find his profile.

It is full of lies, about his age, first off. He shaved off five years.

Then the profile. UGH!

I actually had to laugh.

He paints himself as this great romantic, looking for a:
"serious relationship"
and then--goes into detail about how "romantic and sensual" he is,
how he likes women with "daddy issues--hahaha!"
(Are you friggin kidding me?)
How he's so warm and tender.... WTF?

"With the right partner I like to slow down and take the time to appreciate them.." Really?

"With the right person I am very affectionate, touching, caressing, kissing...." and then, disgustingly, goes into descriptions of ORAL SEX, bound to get him lots of hits from quality women!!!!!

I guess I wasn't the right person!

He says: "I laugh easily...." NOT!!!

This is NOT the man I've known, and he is not capable of sustaining a real relationship.

Oh well. I guess he'll find that our for himself! It's actually really sad.

He has appropriated "our" life as his own.
"I have a donkey, goats... " like some woman is EVER going to come to this house and see them???


What got me is "I have become considerably more romantic as I've gotten older...." I guess he means with Ho-worker....????

I'm not really upset by this---I figure he's lonely and clearly he's looking for something.

But excuse me while I go vomit....


---GGG

[job]

Yep, he's in fantasy land w/the rest of them. Speaking language of the opposite, mirror self. After the initial shock of finding stuff like this, you really do have to shake your head and find the humor in all of it.

It's really very sad to see them like this.

[rayzzz]

I think I need to use a stronger word: just pathetic.
GG clearly he is not growing up at all...and hiding like a child.
SO glad YOU know you don't need him or his pathetic antics....yep there's that word again. Right here for you

[Ss06]

Really, you're not upset by that? I would be... Rather, I am upset. I'm having a hard time distancing myself and finding humor in my H's MLC, so in a way, I admire you, GoatGal. Keep on keeping on.

[Wonka]

GGG,

To piggyback what Job said here, I also think that H is trying to recapture some of the youthful vigor by presenting himself as a strong male that's also sensitive. Sort of like the Bert and Poe show!

Yup, sad indeed.

I remember watching a funny episode of Reba where her XH Brock had signed up for an online chat with a big-ass Texas sized screen name and Reba came across it from her house. She thought to herself, 'what a cute and handsome moniker'. Then they started to chat. Eventually Reba figured out that the guy was her XH Brock and she started stringing him up with silly comments until Brock caught on to her tricks. So funny!

Just a thought, GGG! Oh my...aren't I evil at the moment?!

[LoisB]

Just a thought, GGG! Oh my...aren't I evil at the moment?!

I thought the same thing!!

"Hey, Funny and Sensitive, I like animals. I have chickens, goats and donkeys too! I think we are a match made in heaven."

So sad...and kinda funny at the same time.

[GoatGal]

I really am disgusted.

All that crap about "I have gotten so much more romantic as I've gotten older, and I like it!"

I must be talking about his short-lived, sordid, broom closet liaison with OW.

Because he has NEVER been "romantic" and is definitely not loving and affectionate.
I think I'd know..

OK.

So I have another confession to make.

In order to view his profile, I had to create a profile.

(I know, I know... terrible, Catfishing, right?)

I have no intention of doing anything with it, will probably take it down in a few days...

BUT!!!! (What would REBA do???? )

I swear it's like he was home alone and it does string you into signing up, it's not clear how to "search for free" without paying. I figured it out, though.

I was curious--I also wanted to see that who was out there in terms of guys.

I did notice that most of the guys are not so disgusting to put up the things they like sexually like H did:
"adventurous behind closed doors!/Very oral"! GAG ME!!!

Only my H had the class to put that on there of the 20 or so guys I looked at.

Now I really AM going to puke.

Well, he'll figure out that most women 50+ are going to either not be his type, or they'll have baggage of their own, and will figure out pretty quickly that he's not who he says he is.

And I don't think he's going to be all that attracted to them.

But you never know..

Meanwhile, he's got a hot babe who is compatible with all his "interests" right here at home... probably the best thing he'd find on there!

Meanwhile, he'll probably spend more of our money trying to wine and dine these gals...
Maybe that's why he got his teeth bleached.

I couldn't see how long ago he posted this profile. I'm curious about that.
It did say he's been online there in the last 24 hours.

The problem with sites like this for people like H is that they are based in FANTASY.

The REALITY is he is five years older, has a wife, has sexual/relationship issues.. and finding somebody "new" is not going to "fix" it.

We know this. He does not apparently.

And all the lies he told on there. Any decent woman would figure that out pretty quickly..
He should have added: "My wife kicked me out because I'm a jerk, I'm living in a friend's guest room..."

---GGG

[job]

GG,
I can understand your disgust. I went thru something very similar to that w/my xh many years ago. The things he posted on his profile were very similar to what your h has posted. They don't have a moral compass right now and yes, the MLCer tends to over talk themselves when posting and trust me...they aren't mature about it at all. That's why many people can spot a MLCer a mile away. Some men who post are very mature and sincere about their postings and tell the truth...there are some that will stretch the truth until it's ready to snap.

Trust me, if any decent women hit on his profile, after they have a few chats w/him, they'll figure it out. The only ones that will take the bait will be those in for a "joy ride" of using him and having a good time.

What would Reba do? She would have some fun w/it...but I don't advise it because this is not TV land...but real life. I think I would follow along for a bit, just to see what happens...but it may disgust you to no end.

[GoatGal]

Thanks, job.

That's pretty much what I thought too. I can almost imagine him late at night, having a few drinks, and thinking "Well, I CAN DATE TOO!!!!"

I doubt much will come of it, except maybe he'll compare some of these women to me and they'll come up wanting.

Personally, if I clicked on his profile and read all that stuff about what he likes sexually, that would be a HUGE turnoff, unless I were a "pro" or a gold-digger!
I hope nobody gets him spending money we can't afford.


The other thing that got my goat was that he said:
"I am extremely loyal and fiercely protective of my friends and family".
Which "family" would that be?
All he's got is ME and MY FAMILY!
What "friends"???
-----------------------------------------------

I do believe he's lonely, and he might believe I'm totally writing him off.

That doesn't go with "paving the way" back home at all.

I have been very dark, really not connecting with him, pretty much avoiding him for weeks now.

I wonder if I connected more if he'd feel less like he needs to "find someone".
"A serious relationship"??? He's STILL MARRIED!!!!!
---------------------------

Recently I know he saw a card from a friend I had on the windowsill, thanking me for supporting her during a difficult time, and it said :
"We'll be sorry to see you go if you do feel that's what you need to do to be happy, but your new hometown will be lucky indeed!"

I *think* he's convinced I'm a lost cause. I don't want him to think that.

I was hoping maybe he was starting to come around... but I see now he's nowhere close to that.

Maybe it's time to offer a small olive branch?

Thoughts?


I had to go dark for detaching and it did really help.

And I know I'm doing better because although that dating profile upset me, I was just able to go out and see him and be upbeat.
Do I keep doing as I'm doing or do I reach out a bit?

----GGG

[GoatGal]

Oh yeah, and he also described himself as " a good bad boy" (which is what I used to call him.)

And that he "seems much younger than my years, and people say I look and act much younger, I am playful and love to laugh."

He does seem younger than his ACTUAL AGE. But not younger than his FAKE AGE.

And playful and love to laugh? He's afraid to look silly. Laughter? I've rarely heard it.

Pretty funny..
But yes, nauseating.


I feel sorry for the man. He just gave me another reason to dislike him.


--GGG

[Wonka]

GGG,

Do you know when H put up that profile? If it was recent, I wouldn't reach out for it would appear too suspcious. If it was a while ago, I'd test the waters to get a feel for H's mindset in regard to you as his wife. You need to remember that he is firmly on planet MLC.

Zero expectations.

[GoatGal]

Thanks, Wonka,

It was within the last 30 days, I think within the last few weeks. It is "pending" on our credit card as a charge.

But it's been more than a few days, otherwise it would say "new member".
I'm not reaching out.

It will only show that I looked at it---well, not ME, but some woman....

---GGG


PS: He also does stuff like this when he is "mad" at me. I know he was mad a few weeks ago about the bikes, about me being late on July 4th. I'm guessing it was around that time, a time when I think he really suspected I was "seeing someone" although I have said many times that I will not date anyone prior to divorce.
Of course this ^^^ IS total mind-reading.

[job]

GG,
Right now, he's looking for someone opposite of you. He doesn't want the same qualities in the ow as you have. You have to remember that he is the mirror image of the old self and that means just about everything will be the opposite of what he would like being the old self.

Please don't reach out right now. He's on his journey of experimentation. He has to find things out for himself and he does know where you are and how you feel about him.

I can still remember my father and mother telling me that my xh told them that I loved my cat more than him. They say all sorts of things and can become jealous of pets and children because they take "mom's" attention away from the "son or daughter" (mlcer).

Yes, they do have a way of reminding us that they are angry w/us. Some of their little bursts of anger come out in passive ways and then we discover later what they did to "punish" us.

They are two year olds teething on a teething ring in many ways.

[LoisB]

some woman

YOU ARE SOME WOMAN G! Just like Wilbur in Charlotte's Web "Some Pig."

We all need a friend like Charlotte to scribe positive messages in webs for us.

In the movies, you could be an interested woman and either make him look the fool like Reba or win his love...Gag.

I guess we can imagine some gratifying ending...but, probably not the best idea to actually act it out.

I have an eHarmony account and Job's right. You can pick out the MLC-ers easily. They usually are sitting on a Harley, wearing college-age clothing, looking for fun and there's just something about them that's creepy and Not Quite Right. You can just sense it.

I'm sure his thoughts on oral sex will bring in the babes. Ewww.

You're better off with Poe. :-)

[GoatGal]

One thing to be grateful for: He didn't post a picture of himself.
(Probably because any picture from the last five years shows him scowling.)


And---he didn't post a picture of his private parts!!!!

His "Looking for in a partner" description was gross enough.

But as job said, he's describing himself as he "thinks" he was with his OW. He probably thinks he WAS romantic, and that he wants a needy person to take care of (i.e.: who will tolerate whatever he dishes out.)

Oh yeah, and he actually described himself as a "caretaking type". Can you say "co-dependent"??????

If it's not a subordinate co-worker, there is nothing to make him look like anything but an aging creeper. He doesn't have the benefit of being "The Boss". Now he's just a lonely guy looking for a date. Yikes.


----GGG

PS: Don't you guys worry. I'm not going to do anything stupid!

[Wonka]

The only things missing from the profile are a white horse, a plume feathered cap, and a title called Lord Farquaad.

giggling off stage

[GoatGal]

I'm off the rails here----

I just noticed what the other charges he's trying to hide from me.

Canadian Pharmacy: plus a foreign transaction fee.

The right amount for generic Viagra!

Three ads for Craigslist.
In the past, he's posted stuff for work, but I have not been checking to see if there are reimbursements.

I hope he's not trying to have anonymous hookups.

Does he really think he's going to meet someone on one of these sites and actually get to USE that Viagra?

(Assuming that's what it is. You need a prescription, but if he had that, why not just fill that locally?) Who knows what it is... but I'm just filling in the blanks here.

----------------------

OK---THIS TRAIN HAS JUMPED THE TRACKS!!!!!

I AM MIND-READING AND PROJECTING ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!


---------

Here's what I DO know.

He is lonely. He has problems. He is not happy. I say "have a good evening" and he says... "Ugh... yeah. Right."


When he can, he chooses to be HERE, where I live, where our kids are.

If he was really into the dating scene, he'd be off chasing some tail on Friday and Saturday nights.

So I'm not going to get my knickers in any more of a twist over it.

He's pathetic, screwed up... and honestly?
I'm the best he'll ever have.

Count on THAT.




---GGG

[Wonka]

GGG,

Let's get back to Earth now and put on your lab coat.

The amoeba is trying to bust out of the petri dish and wants to explore a bit further out. Can't you just see how he's running in circles and acting "abnormally" to use science parlance? The amoeba isn't waving at you nor paying you any attention. Too busy trying to bust out of the petri dish.

[artsy]

GGG,
I've joined the party over here, too.

I have the exact same question about reaching out after going dark (I just went dark/NC on Sunday, but I'm wanting it to last forever and a day... What's appropriate?? Who knows!)

You're handling thing extremely well! Sorry your H is being gross.

[GoatGal]

Well, I'm calming down.

I think it's a good thing that he sees what's REALLY out there.

And I guess I should be grateful for small things. Like that he's on a 50+ site!

Even though there he says he likes women with "daddy issues" (since when can a seven year old be a "daddy"??? 50+ women and he's "57". )

I guess he's looking for someone much like his former OW.
Who was molested as a child and is working it out with older men (him--more than 30 years older) in a very unhealthy ways.
Even HE said how awful that was and how he took advantage of her.
Guess he forgot about exploiting people's problems for his own pleasure.
Guess he's now romanticizing that R again, even though it brought us to where we are.
The fact that he says he actually WANTS that is disgusting...

Anyhow. I am calmer... just losing hope of him ever being anything like a decent, trustworthy person ever again.

And he must think I'm stupid, that I wouldn't see the damn charges!
He probably doesn't know I have access to the online statement. I'll keep that on the QT...

What I do know is that there are no hotel charges, no fancy dinners, no fancy gifts. The fact that he's using our joint card and I can see this leads me to believe he's in la-la land.

If I wanted to cheat, I'd get a secret credit card. Then again, I'm in my right mind...

Back to what I do know. (Yes, I'm talking myself down here from this snooping episode.
DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO!!!!!)

It's just a profile, not a Relationship. Who knows if he met anyone or chatted... (but now I think I know what he was doing the other night when he hid his phone mid-chat!)

He should get out there and see what's available.
Who is compatible with him on so many things, who is cute and sweet and funny, loves all the animals, has the same interests.... who is kind, and sexy, and really quite lovable.

That would be ME. I think he'll see the grass is not greener.

But seriously. Gross.

My plan?

Just keep my cool, throw him a little bone, maybe toss him a little sexy... let him see a bit more of what he's been missing:
The coolest, smartest, sweetest chick he's ever gonna get!


---GGG

[GoatGal]

Oh--- and one last thing. (OK, maybe not, I'm still processing...)
I have had my interest piqued by those same "OurTime" ads, showing happy loving 50+ couples.

It's just that I don't think that either of us is in any position to start "dating".

But then again, I'm in my right mind!
------------------------------------

It's interesting that he *says* he's looking for a "serious relationship".
(With his wife living upstairs?????)

This is the same man who told me a few months ago that he "prefers shallow relationships and porn" because he's "not good one on one".
That he is "broken" and can't be fixed.

Now he *seems* to think that maybe he CAN be in a real R?
Or at least he WANTS to to have one.
There was an option on the dating site to select different things, like:
"any type of relationship/casual relationship" yet he picked "serious".

Hmmmmmmmm.......


So I am taking this as a good sign.
(Viagra, lies, and Oral sex descriptions not withstanding.)

This is man who, deep down, WANTS to have a real loving relationship, WANTS to feel close to someone, WANTS to be romantic.

As he says "With the 'right' person..."

Um....hello, H ????

Aren't you married to someone wonderful?????

I am definitely "serious relationship" material!!!


---GGG

PS: He joined the site within the last few days, I think over the weekend. I wonder if he thinks I'm moving away (I might if D is final) and he really doesn't want to be alone after all his statements to the contrary.

PPS: Any one he meets who discovers what his real age/situation are will run for the hills, unless they're skanks. In which case, he'd run for the hills! He prefers the "wholesome" type.

[GoatGal]

And job... sorry.... when you said, "don't reach out now", did you mean I should continue to stay dark, and not throw him a bone in terms of opening up a little on the communication?

I think that's what you meant.

---GGG

PS: EVERYTHING he said on his dating profile was all about HIMSELF. The only thing he said about the woman he was looking for was about how HE liked to be sexual. When they asked what kind of woman are you looking for, he simply said, "Someone who is interested in the above. ME."

That's sad....I think it's weird. It's like he not looking for a specific type of person, or certain qualities or personality traits---it's just ALL ABOUT HIM and what HE LIKES.

You know, "it doesn't matter who you are, as long as you can make ME feel good." That's really how it reads. How MLC is THAT????

That's a part of H that is all too familiar.

[Georgiabelle]

Good googly GG! I was just catching up on your thread and I'm sorry that your h has gone off the rails. Yes, your h sounds lonely and desperate. I can relate to how you feel. My h never had to do online dating because he had an epic Twitter breakdown and a snapchat friend offered to rescue him and *want* him the way he needed to be wanted. Voila! Meet OW:)

Yes, your h sounds pathetic and sad and hopefully you can laugh at the lunacy. I I know it can hurt, but you just have to leave him alone. Let him be. Trust the vets. You have such a great sense of humor.

Job's story about her xh saying she loved the cat made me laugh outloud. My h said the same thing about me with the dog. Some of this stuff is crazy!!!

Hang in there GG.

[GoatGal]

OK gross.

He is actively pursuing this!


I just logged back on, curious as to if it's really 50+.

He ALREADY SENT MY FAKE PROFILE A MESSAGE.


Ugh..

I see the come on, though. You sign up for free, then if you want to actually HEAR from these people, you have to pay.

Well, I'm not going that far.

But it just goes to show you, he just got back to his place and he's already trolling on here for dates.

Now I really AM going to PUKE!

---GGG

[AJM]

If I remember correctly, there's a list somewhere in the archives of the craziest sh*t MLCr's say. It truly can be hilarious, once you get past the sadness of it all.

The problem is that we can see the end game. We see how these things turn out for the person they were.

But for the person they are, it may not be how things are for them. The mirror image idea is very appropriate. They become the opposite and seek out the opposite of us. Often with similarities to their family of origin in some ways. Almost as if they are trying to re-live the past through the OW/OM and maybe make it right?

I dunno. It's strange and totally opposite of what they were when we knew them. I recall my ex saying (before she left) she is not the same person she was. As if she knew she was different.

How they handle that different "them" varies from person to person. But honestly, they do what they do to survive.

Try not to snoop. I know it's tempting, but it's not a good idea in the end.

What matters is what you do and what he eventually becomes. Everything else is just filler.

AJ

[LoisB]

GGG, step away from the train wreck. You got the information, now save yourself.

[GoatGal]

AJM,


You're right.


I just kept having this GUT feeling about where I was with H, and something about that credit card statement kept poking my brain.

I have not seen a statement in a few months, and I get all the mail.

I don't know what possessed me---the devil made me do it!!!

The one good thing is this:
Not very long ago I would have been flipping out.

Now I'm just disgusted... annoyed... but I'm not sad, angry, or heartbroken.

I THINK I MIGHT BE DETACHED!!!!

I had been hopeful that he was starting to "see the light" with some of his statements, and this doesn't necessarily negate that.

It's funny, here he is looking for a "serious relationship" and yet--HE HAS ONE.
With ME!

I'd understand if I'd treated him terribly and he got sick of it and left. But that's not what happened.

I was thinking about that today and realized one difference between us:
I may not have been a perfect wife, but I never did anything that I knew would hurt him, I never betrayed him, and I always respected him.

He'd be lucky to find someone like me.

He can not say the same. About either of those statements.

He'll figure it out. Or not.

---GGG

[GoatGal]

You're right, Lois (Heather!)

I am stepping away from the tracks right now!!!!


*sigh*

Will this EVER be over?

[BrightFuture]

Your H went further than my on a dating site. My H’s profile is not complete, there is no picture, and he didn’t write anything about himself.

In order to view his profile, I had to create a profile.

I did the same when I found out about him signing on this site.

Well, he'll figure out that most women 50+ are going to either not be his type, or they'll have baggage of their own, and will figure out pretty quickly that he's not who he says he is. And I don't think he's going to be all that attracted to them.

This! All of the avove and my H also would not want the kids around. I’m actually curious what he would post about himself. I’m thinking “Like to hang around at the bars, drink like fish, make inappropriate jokes, and then pass out in my camper parked nearby.”

Meanwhile, he's got a hot babe who is compatible with all his "interests" right here at home... probably the best thing he'd find on there!

And this! It’s been 2 years since BD for me and H still hasn’t found a “Harmonious” relationship for his “phase of life” after me.

The REALITY is he is five years older, has a wife, has sexual/relationship issues.. and finding somebody "new" is not going to "fix" it.

And this! Sometimes I wonder how my H thinks the things are going to work out with a “new” woman, while he is not divorced and has a wife who shares the vacation home with him.

A lot of things you posted so resonate with me. I find lots of similarities in our sitches. I’m just not as good a writer as you are.

[job]

GG,
I would remain dim for a while. If you reach out now, he may begin to wonder why you are doing so at this particular time.

Everything he is doing is perfectly normal for those in replay. He's trying to recapture his youth and wants to see if he missed something in that time period. As I remind new posters periodically, MLCers are going back to a time where they were emotionally stunted, by this I mean they could have been ignored by their parents or someone in an authority position, they could have been abused emotionally/physically, not admired or recognized for their accomplishments, etc.

Your h reminds me so much of my xh and the things he did. The new way of meeting people is online. They can fabricate their new lives and post it on line and the posters don't have a clue if that is the truth or not...until they meet them. Some even post photos of other people or a younger self. It's difficult to really know what is the truth on those sites until you actually begin talking to them and really listening. For example, I went on eHarmony many years ago and actually found a very nice man online. He told me that he was outdoorsy, athletic, etc. Well, we met up and he was no more outdoorsy than my couch. He was white as a ghost and could barely keep up walking the Mall in DC. All he wanted to talk about was his low testosterone level and not being able to perform w/the women he was meeting in bars and online. I looked him straight in the eyes and advised him to see a MD about the problem and make an appointment w/a shrink. From that day forward, no more online sites for me.

MLCers think of themselves as a "catch" for anyone who is willing to take the bait. They are looking at themselves while wearing rose colored glasses and know that we are very much aware of their flaws, good and bad. New people won't know this for a very long time and the attention they receive from others just builds up their kibble stash.

Again, all of behaviors are very normal for someone in crisis. He's got to work thru this, experiment and yes, have some disappointments along the way. While he's doing all of this, you have your own journey to walk and trust me, you are far saner than he is right now. Continue moving forward w/your life and try not to snoop too much. It will only upset you if you continue to do so. At least w/the snooping that you've done thus far, you can see he's out there seeking affirmation from someone and hasn't found them just yet.

Hang in there.

[Georgiabelle]

^^^^^^^^
Excellent stuff as always!

[GoatGal]

Wisdom from job. Thanks....

I know this too. But sometimes it's hard to see what he's doing.

My detachment is so much better, but I was dreaming about it all night.

The thing that echoed in my mind this morning was that he kept repeating in his dating profile:

"Normally, I'm like <this>, but with the 'right person' I'd be very different...."

He said this several times. So he's aware that he IS a certain way (messed up) but thinks the "right person" would negate the issues he's had since before I met him.
Obviously he's totally lacking in insight. Big surprise!

Clearly he's looking for some external "fix". Typical MLC, which when I first mentioned it last year, he laughed in my face, and sent a photo of the book I was reading to OW, saying something nasty about me and how crazy I was--there was nothing wrong with HIM, as they both knew, right?

RiiiiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhT.

All he needs is the "Right Person" and he will be "Happy", "Different" and all his issues will be magically resolved.

In his mind right now, I understand that I am the "Wrong Person".

Because if I were his "Perfect Soul Mate", he would have never had the problems he clearly did in the relationship.
But of course!!!!


He's been like this since the beginning, thinking it's things outside that need to change instead of inside.


It makes me sad that he doesn't even seem to care anything about the qualities he'd want in a partner for this potentially "serious relationship".

His only requirement is that she be "sexually adventurous"--essentially, WILLING and BREATHING.
And that she really likes him. I guess that means she won't ask for much.
Essentially, he's searching for OW #2 who will allow him to continue to play out his porn fantasies in the real world---until she won't.

These last few years, that was pretty much his only requirement for me, too. That I do what he wanted in the bedroom (when he wanted it), fulfill his needs as he wanted, and then he pretty much ignored me.

I only put up with it because I loved a better man who was still in there. I doubt anyone he'd want to have a real relationship with would put up with that treatment.
--------------------------------------

I'm not worried he'll meet some wonderful woman who is so much better for him than I am. I am more concerned that if he actually takes it to a sexual level with random people, he might pick up AIDS/Herpes--he had unsafe sex with OW in his foggy brain---if he starts behaving like that, I'll be done with him.

Really. Enough is enough.

I know this process will take its own course.

And my course will be determined by me.

MLC or not, at some point if this man doesn't get a grip, I can't stick around and watch.


---GGG

PS: I'm pretty sure there is no way he can figure out that that profile is me. It's totally fake, different state, different email... nothing to link me except a fake email address. I doubt he'd be that suspicious, especially since he must think I don't see those credit card statements for the OurTime subscription, and the Canadian pharmacy.... Yuck.

[Cadet]

GG

Here is the thing that is hard to accept.

All of our marriages are over at Bomb Drop.

Most of us don't understand that but it is really true.

I am not saying that maybe we can not build a new marriage
but life as we knew it is over.
So detaching and letting go are partly trying to figure out how we accept this fact and move forward from there.

Simple but Complicated IMHO.

Yes he is certainly in REPLAY, you are seeing more and more signs of it.

[GoatGal]

Thanks, Cadet.

I miss you over here in MLC land! You were like a port in a storm for me and helped me so much.
I appreciate your visits whenever they come.
---------------------------------------------

Anyhow...

I know, you're right.

Our M is over. That's clear. This new guy is someone I don't want to be around. So I'll continue with my darkness and let him twist in his lonely wind for awhile longer.
From what I've read, the more intensely he twists and feels everything isn't working out the way he planned, the more reality sets in.

What the result of that might be is anybody's guess.


And you were right on the money with your "REPLAY" diagnosis!

It's even clear to me now!


If you were here, I'd make you a cappuccino...



---GGG

[LoisB]

GGG,

Seeing all that online was, in essence, being rejected...again. It's natural to experience it as an personal online rejection. It's not really, but I know that's how it feels.

That's why you gotta be really, really, really, REALLY careful with snooping. It's easy, when your are feeling rejected/being rejected to take things very personally and integrate the rejection into your soul.

LOOK AT THE FACTS:

Go back to looking at Mr. Middle-Aged, Sexually Adventurous with the eyes of a scientist. Since, like me, you can't seem to quite processing it...over and over...:-)

Is he a great catch right now? Seriously?

Take a balanced, sober look at this man...with ALL HIS QUALITIES, good and bad.

You've mentioned he isn't capable of having a real relationship right now. You mentioned he has a problem with porn. You mentioned he is, generally, being a big dick to you. So, IF, he finds someone...what are the chances she will be Movie Star Beautiful and Super, Duper Awesome??? Um. No. She will be very flawed to accept a dishonest, married, middle-aged man with some fairly obvious sexual issues. Ewwww.

Did you ever see The Incredibles? If not, google the scene where Edna Mode slaps and, then, tells Elasti-Girl..."Pull YOURSELF TOGETHER! YOU ARE ELASTI-GIRL!"

[LoisB]

He served you papers on YOUR B'day for cripes sake. Why would a quality person settle for him?

If he walks like an A$$, talks like an A$$, then...just maybe...he is (at least today)...an ?????????

Wow, I needed to hear that myself. Thanks Heather.

Your welcome.

[Wonka]

GGG,

Now that you've got a night's sleep and drank some of the cap with Cadet, I hope you now can see the funny side of H's profile as an observer.

Sort of like a teenager trying on different personas like one would try on new clothes in a fitting room.

[Cadet]

Thanks, Cadet.

I miss you over here in MLC land! You were like a port in a storm for me and helped me so much.
I appreciate your visits whenever they come.

I am still around and keep checking in on you.
Although I do GAL from time to time.....

If you were here, I'd make you a cappuccino...

Hmmm if I liked cappuccino that would be good.

You are in good hands here in MLC land,
there is still lots to learn and
I have good faith that you will be fine!

[Georgiabelle]

[quote=Cadet]GG

Here is the thing that is hard to accept.

All of our marriages are over at Bomb Drop.

Most of us don't understand that but it is really true.

^^^^^^^^

So true, Cadet and very challenging to comprehend initially.

[Wonka]

Hey Cadet,

Weren't you fingering me about the bright colored STFU duct tape??! Watcha talkin' bout?!

[Cadet]

Hey Cadet,

Weren't you fingering me about the bright colored STFU duct tape??! Watcha talkin' bout?!

HUH? If you cant hear me I am wearing some blue tape right now!

[GoatGal]

Heather, you're absolutely right. ^^^^^


It does feel like a rejection because he's got a wonderful woman, who, deep down, still loves him, and has all the qualities he listed!

And conveniently, we're already married!

*sigh*

But I know this is not about me.

If I actually put a truthful profile for myself on that dating site, with another name, he'd be all over it like white on rice.

It's all the dang water under the bridge. I know who he is, and he can't hide that from me.


And if he met me today, without all the messy history, I know he'd like me and be attracted to me.
I'm not sure if I would feel the same about him since he gives off such a crawly vibe these days...

I don't know if I'd be attracted to him meeting him with fresh eyes, in terms of his appearance.
To me, he's every inch his age these days. This experience has aged him for sure.
I'm sure he could still pull off that superficial charm, in short bursts.



Funny, there's a song I play when DJing from the 1920's. "Mama's Grown Young"
It goes:

"Mama's grown young, Papa's grown old,
Mama runs hot, Papa runs cold,
Mama gets younger, Papa gets older each day.
and ............
"Mama's got a brand-new bob that's nifty young and sweet,
Papa's got a scraggly beard that looks like shredded wheat............
Mama's at nightclubs shaking her hips--Papa shakes too--He's blue in the lips...."

You get the idea.


And yes, I process verbally/by writing.
I hope it's not annoying to you guys; it's how I get clarity.
I have to get out my thoughts and once I do that, I can let them go.

But this is interesting as per my "experiment".
It is more information to put in my report. The amoeba has moved into uncharted territory...

My mantra today is: "It's REPLAY, Baby!!!!"

And:
"Pull yourself together! You're GOAT GAL!!!!!"
(With Gumby qualities. )

2 x 4 WHACK to the noggin!

[GoatGal]

I'm so glad to spend a morning with my DBing pals.

I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!


So ix-nay on the appuccino-cay, let me know what I can substitute.

[LoisB]

It does feel like a rejection because he's got a wonderful woman, who, deep down, still loves him, and has all the qualities he listed!

GGG, in my experience, teenage boys very rarely have the maturity and self-control to even recognize the best match for a mature, adult, responsible, fun, lasting marriage...that's why so few teenagers are married. IMO

You know what his problem issss????? It's like the phrase from the Breakfast Club..."Chicks can't hold dey smoke! That's the problem."

He couldn't HANDLE a mature relationship right now...thus, he is avoiding the one he has. More fun to have teenage fantasies.

Use the time he's given you wisely to see what issues you have to deal with...They ALLLLLL come up when we've been abandoned. Every ancient insecurity and feelings of past rejections...they all come bubbling to the surface. Pay attention to them while they are out in the open and look at them. You may find, at the end of the day, he isn't nothin like what our authentic self would settle for. Poor guy. Poor, sad, lying, cheatin, weasel with sex issues.