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Joined: Feb 2004
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W oddly nice last night, perhaps because she wanted me to fix an old stereo. House renovation delayed by a few weeks, which presumably means W will stay here rather than in Stockholm, in order to work on house.

Do I just tell W d16 and I plan to go to Japan? Inform rather than ask?

d16 moody.

L

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"W oddly nice last night, perhaps because she wanted me to fix an old stereo."

I don't understand why you make comments like this. She acted nice, you have done nothing to try and improve your communication with her, and you suspect she wants you to do something.

Have you ever thought that she could actually just be nice for a change? You still haven't been the easiest person to talk to, I gather.

" House renovation delayed by a few weeks, which presumably means W will stay here rather than in Stockholm, in order to work on house. "

Why don't you actually talk to her about it?

"Do I just tell W d16 and I plan to go to Japan? Inform rather than ask?"

When was the last time you actually had a conversation with her?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Originally Posted By: LuckyLuke
Ah - a lucky number - how appropriate.

I wonder what and if to tell d16 about how I feel about all this.
I don't want to pressure her excessively, but losing her even more (after all these years of lost chances to spend childhood time with her) really hurts. Why should I try anymore for her, when the pain outweighs the pleasure? Do I have to suffer just because I am her dad? If she spends so little time with me, does that change my obligations to her? Do I openly tell her how hurt I am?

It seems so easy for her to accept being away from me - doesn't she realize the pain this causes me?


Given your first highlighted comment above, how on earth would your d KNOW how you feel, when you do not tell her? She's no mind reader, she's a teenage girl with a non communicative father. I suspect she does NOT know how you feel. What SHE sees is you traveling a lot and being very aloof and quiet when you are around.

So what do you think SHE FEELS about that type of reclusive behavior of yours?

LL, you are the parent. That is supposed to clarify things, but I'll read on before posting more...for now.


The one woman/girl, beyond my mom, that I really still love, leaving, again and again, and my wonderful, kind, W gets her. I am truly overjoyed.

L


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Originally Posted By: LuckyLuke
Okay - I've got to be proactive in this mess - have started an online dating profile - asked for EE support to refine this - asked for advice from EE companions to get through this - started looking for new digs on the web (a pain in Stockholm) - I need to stay close enough to d16 to maintain a relationship - wonder how big the apartment she and W are taking is, as this determines whether they will leave stuff here and when we can sell the house. What is the time scale of finding a new place? Also,


OMG just ASK THEM ^^^ so you know....geez....


I think it makes sense to dedicate a coaching session to coparenting and dealing with my changed situation.


clearly YES




Slept 2-3 hours last night, hopefully tonight will be better.

It is hard to hide my pain and sadness from d16, but I must.

L



why not tell her how you feel without making HER responsible for it?

Like telling her that :"Time with you means so much to me --- I want US to schedule it now and see how we can fit in your activities with OUR dad & daughter time"or words to that effect.

And Luke, ASSUME she wants time with you. Do NOT ask her if...


Okay I have to keep reading your thread but so many of your posts scream out to me...Luke, you can do this!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
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Originally Posted By: LuckyLuke
MLC - you had a number of questions that I didn't answer.

Yes, I could have taken an apartment myself, but expected the future to be like the past (commute from here, an hour away from d16 school, which is what she did last year). The changed living situation broadsided me.


Luke, no offense my friend, but ^^^ "the changed living situation broadsided" you? How could that be?

Your w has told you many times she wants a divorce. She told you she planned on divorcing you after d was older.

She said she wants to sell the house AND divorce you when d reaches this age.

And now she is doing all of that. I mean, we're talking a Decade of warnings.

And your r with your d is SLOWLY improving, but I'm mystified as to why you were "Blindsided" by any of this. I mean, you must have really been in major denial.


Got it on the MIL front - thanks. My MIL is actually kinder and closer to me than my W!


Going to the West Coast for 2 months sounds good for the moment. I have subscribed to an apartment finding service already, which actively sends you notifications of new places that match your criteria.

No, I don't think she sees my staying in the house as better than her small place. She gets to be away from me, whom she can't stand being with (to quote).

Yes, fear drove me, wanting to hang on to the familiar, the comforting, the known. I guess I need to learn to let go.


Thx - L



You have to learn to let go. There is no debating that. It's a must do.

I call it "adapting to reality". Regardless, it's a learned skill and I have no doubt you will learn it. And you will at least partly, ENJOY it if you let yourself.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
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Originally Posted By: LuckyLuke
Hi Sandi,

Tochter is the direct translation of daughter (actually the same word long ago). I can't think of a German word that sounds like gouger - any other clues?

Just got back from a week long business trip, where my boss was also present, so offline. I saw that W was at Ikea getting stuff for the new place. She still hasn't told me about it.


She knows you know, so what is there to tell? I think the real question is, WHY Haven't YOU ASKED HER anything about it?

That's the key here, b/c you are more afraid of talking to her than any guy I know, who is headed to divorce anyhow. What on earth do you have to lose by "confronting" reality? She's leaving you. You are "allowed" to ask when, how, and lots of questions about YOUR d.


Also, I asked d16 if she still wanted to go to Japan, and she said to ask W - I don't want to ask permission though, and so wonder how to do this?


1) why did you ask your d IF she "Still wanted to go"? Did you assume she would have doubts or second thoughts and did you radiate that to her?

I say Just PLAN AND GO!

And now you are wondering how you can "ask permission" of her mother, which you do not want to do, and which we all agree is gross and pathetic...

well,

2) you could keep avoiding it----that is probably your first choice, right? But gee, isn't it time to get it out in the open?

3) TELL YOUR W, THAT YOU & D ARE GOING TO JAPAN. Let her know the dates, and be done with it. Be excited about it, and loving, and don't stand there waiting for permission. INFORM your w, in the open.

4) finally, Talk about it ALL with d in the open. No more hiding.

How on earth can W object? ( I know she might, I know). But if your w "gets mad" at you and you start to cower, DON'T.

IF YOUR W GETS MAD, so what? She can't beat you up. So get mad back but maintain control.

I know your father had a scary temper -- but you can get angry without becoming him.

Go ahead and say a FEW Things your w has done that are out of line and tell your d to her face that YOU VALUE time with her, and are tired of feeling displaced in your own home.

Oh, You think your W will "persuade" or guilt your d into not going? That's the worst case scenario, right? That she will "win"?? That is your fear, correct?


Well THEN At least make her do it in front of your D! No more hiding and guessing!

Don't let another "already paid for trip" get ruined or half 'un done" by a wife with a temper tantrum, trying to make God only knows what point...does your d even know your w did that and it cost your family a lot? Does anyone but you know?

Do you want your d to "communicate" like this, in HER family & marriage?


THEN SHOW HER HOW to do it better. And tell her you hope she will!

(Yes Luke, YOU show YOUR D how)

How you hope she'll communicate more with her family than you have ---

and NOT to let some bully shove her out of her own home, and to 'stand up to said bully' if that happens in her marriage...and then you do what you tell her. IN other words, walk the walk and the talk. Stand up to your wife, esp in front of your d. How on earth will she ever KNOW she matters a lot to you if she never sees you fight FOR her?

Make sense?

Reading a book about getting past a breakup - helpful. I can see that a rebound R would not be good, though it has been a long time since.

Thx - L




I say Whatever it takes to help you move on and let go of this toxic pretend marriage, can't be all bad.

Just be honest with OWs --- that you are not yet in a position to give them what they need.

But I know there are women out there who will enjoy your companionship without strings attached - and that would be a big improvement over the "zero people contact" you have now, or so I think. Not to mention the ice cold reception you get at your "dream home".

And fwiw, a father is a big deal.

My dad ultimately has had more influence on me than my mom. He was scholarly and she was the life of the party. Yes I do perform and so I Do have some of her tendencies.

But he was a L, as am I and I went to HIS alma mater for law school. WE had some great deep discussions, whereas English is my mom's second language - so we never communicated as well as my dad and I. I love my mom, don't get me wrong.
But my dad, he was a big fixture in my life.

I read a book a long time ago about fathers & d's and to daughters, fathers are representing the WORLD outside the home, and that meant that girls with close R's with their dads felt more comfortable with ambition outside the home, than girls who were only close to their moms.

Moms represented the inner life, = home life....whereas men were the "outside world" and so girls with close dads tended to be more confident in the outside world.

My sister "J" was never close to my dad and she was much less confident in the outside world than I was. She also dated men who were less emotionally available to her, and many of us felt she was replaying the r she had with dad, but this time she wanted to "get the man to love HER", but due to who she'd choose, it never really happened.

I DO believe my dad made that difference. And yet we fought like hell while I was in high school. I could not stand him then, and his rules and what I saw as hypocrisy.

But I evolved, and so did he. I cannot over emphasize the importance of the R between men and their d's. There are books on this very subject. Read some.

Luke, USE at least some of the advice we give you, don't just look at it with a microscope.

Know what I mean?

Well, I so look forward to your next visit here. And some EE time too.

IN fact, someday I hope your d attends EE....

my kids sure will.

(((( ))))



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,216
L
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Mr. Bond,

I actually do talk to W sometimes, though not about anything "big", (yet). For instance, we looked together at the non-working stereo she had bought, which came with a circuit diagram, and I explained how to trace the fault (a fuse). That fuse is now ordered. Next step will be to see if it works, and if not, then look at the grease on the motor (which apparently gets gunky with age). This in some sense is a shared project.

W asked me to take down some old jasmine trees/bushes, which is good, simple work that I enjoy.

W can be nice, yes. It just seemed so different to have her bring a cold beer to the dinner table.

L

ps. Sweden's biggest fire in a long time is burning not too far from here. You can smell and see the smoke. Luckily France and Italy have sent up water scooping airplanes to help out - we don't have any such here.

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"I actually do talk to W sometimes, though not about anything "big", (yet)."

Then start building on those little conversations. Stop being so "proper" and be a bit more masculine when talking to her. You know that was a problem she had with you. You are so afraid of her that it's obvious.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,216
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Masculine: I just used a power saw outside to make kindling out of a woody bush. We have firewood out the door now.

How would you do masculine?

L

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MLC - I have told d16 how much I value my time with her and how I will miss her when she is in Stockholm. I proposed a dad-daughter dinner night on Wednesdays.

Yes, she must find me strange and aloof. I don't want to burden her with my feelings more than already though. I suppose the most important thing just now is that she sees me having fun? I usually am at my desk, on the PC.

Once d16 said I have to ask her questions in order to get more information and closer to her. I do that now.

It is so wonderful when she lets me see more of herself.

I'll build up the courage to bite the bullet and do as you say.

L

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