Unlearning conflict avoidance 13

[MrBond]

You know, of course, that you could have spent this whole time developing some kind of relationship with your W. Since you didn't do anything, it shouldn't have been a surprise that she was making plans without consulting you, which amazes me because you are BOTH her parents.

In terms of your D, she has adopted the role of parent and you the child. You were pouting on here and complaining while she came up with a plan for a relationship with you. This is another part of your situation that you haven't changed either.

When you were attracted to that one girl who was half your age, I really don't think you're ready for any kind of relationship. I mean if you can't figure out how to have a relationship with your D, how are you going to have one with another person if you haven't changed? New people always come with their own baggage and if you think that the next one is going to be perfect and problem-free, then think again.

[LuckyLuke]

Yes, Bond, I know I've inverted the parent-child relationship sometimes. I know I have been pouting.

I disagree about d16 coming up with the plan. My sister and I talked through this earlier and had already come up with the same idea, so this was more of an affirmation and I was glad to hear it.

That 35 (guess) year old is divorced and has a 10 year old, so yes, she has baggage (and I know she was angry at her ex, all the time).

On the other hand, I have been alone for too long, both at work and at home. I would really like a GF at least - I am sick of the empty days, no physical contact, no warmth.

I would love to know how to change - it seems to elude me, which is intensely frustrating, because I know that a lot of this is my fault.

Thanks - L

[Wonka]

Luke,

Keep at your R with D. Don't give up. I remember being 16 and wanting to be left alone! Hanging around my parents...oh my! What a horror! Then I "grew" up and became a woman. Loved hanging out with my Dad and my folks. Give it time.

You wrote:

I would love to know how to change - it seems to elude me, which is intensely frustrating, because I know that a lot of this is my fault.

This leaves me a bit baffled at your outlook. It is as simple as this: If you want to change, just do it. Don't ask around how to go about it. If you're fed up with your circumstances, then change. It just doesn't "elude" you...it is right there in front of you. Either make the leap or stay stuck.

As 25 has said here previously, you just need to apply those EE principles. It's worthless and useless if you don't apply them in actual practice.

Jump?
Stay stuck?

What is it gonna be, Luke?

[MrBond]

"I disagree about d16 coming up with the plan. My sister and I talked through this earlier and had already come up with the same idea, so this was more of an affirmation and I was glad to hear it."

But who was the one who actually brought it up? If it was your D, then it is HER plan. Just thinking about it with no action doesn't do anything. That's what you've been doing throughout this whole process.

Thought with no action.

[25yearsmlc]

LL,

First, HUGS to you my friend...((( )))

Now, let me re-cap so I know if I have this right.

Your w informed you that she and d will be moving into Stockholm for the next 3 years? No other decision about the marriage was said? And you are relying on HER comments as to what your legal rights are?

Just that SHE and D would be moving into the city in a 1 bedroom apartment, (which is obviously too small for you to join)?

Since your work does not force you to stay in the house, you could just as easily have moved in there too, correct? Ouch...

LL. Why would you stay legally married? You are not "married" in any other way, so why keep it as a legal entity? I'm sincere.

I mean it, what purpose is there in waiting for the other shoe to drop? Seems to me that is exactly what you have done w/your w, for the past decade.

Truly Luke You have waited for....for your life to happen....waited too much to see what your w would decide to do. As you put it, you needed to be more proactive, and that was the case long ago.

Instead of taking action, You read into things like her planting a garden or painting a wall, wondering what it meant...vis a vis a divorce. Hoping she'd stay and be nicer to you...
But Luke, you never DID anything to push it in any direction. Not that I can see.

So now, your w is doing exactly what you feared she would do, moving on with her life and taking your d with her...and MAYBE she will divorce you - but maybe not...???

Why wait anymore? Why continue to give her all the power? Why not get an apartment near your d too, and drop the house? It's too much work for you alone and it's not enough to "hope" that w and d spend time there doing chores and pretending that makes a "family life". For one thing, your d will want to spend time with her friends soon enough, won't she? My now 17 y/o is barely home as it is.

As for the home, I think The memories you have of it seem to contrast with the realities of living there for you. I think you find beauty there but some of it is based on hopes for a life that wasn't real....just hoped for.

So why not Just sell it and split the money and move on? You know LL, at some point soon, that will have to happen anyhow.

There is zero indication that things will improve between you two. So why not move on sooner?

Luke, Can you imagine how your d could view you if she saw you as we see you? Imagine you being with an OW who 'gets' you? And enjoys you - and what would your D learn if she were to see you happy? NOT Lonely?

Just had a productive talk with my sister. Here are her points/ideas:

o I am not abandoning my kid, who is nearly adult, by spending time in the States, where
o I work in an office, with people I like, and am not lonely during the day;
o yes, W has won by getting to spend so much time with d16 and getting this apartment in Stockholm, a fun town; life can be that way and this is just my lot.


Wait...what's with the word "won" so often used? What has your wife 'won" that she did not already have? Why did you feel it had to be one of you and not both, who got time with your child?
That always seemed odd to me. I'd have invited my d along with me and with a friend of hers too, if it meant hanging out more. It would not have to be one on one...

So Now your w is going to live in a one bedroom apartment with a 17 y/o d, and you get to live on the lake in the big beautiful home?

Actually I can imagine her bitterly complaining that YOU get the lovely house all to yourself, and she is "forced to live in a tiny apartment with your d"...


o so, why not work in the US for two months, out of this memory and pain laden house?


Agreed...and let's see the house more realistically this^^ way. It's NOT the "family" home, or it has not been for a decade. You were alienated inside the home a decade ago...

I'm amazed at how attached you say you are to it, but I think there are mixed emotions there. And I bet that this goes to how you accept whatever you get -even paltry scraps, b/c you fear that the alternative is somehow going to be even more lonely.

And you thereby make the alternative more likely...meaning, you feared being alone so much that you became paralyzed by that fear, frozen into inaction and that led your wife to want to flee your presence, and maybe you began to ooze in discomfort, which surely showed...

So you thereby brought about the very events you most dreaded.

Do you see what I'm saying?

o telling d16 that I am doing so because I am lonely here, INSERT: "I will be around more people, which i enjoy"...but that it doesn't mean I don't love her, and that we can stay in touch by phone or Skype or whatever, and that she will always have my heart (INSERT: "I will see her every 'X & Y' and on alternate holidays"...and make that happen Luke. Don't ask permission! Simply insist with loving enthusiasm on being the father you have wanted to be and will no longer stop yourself from being. You can't let your wife be your excuse for not taking action to be around your d anymore, or your fear of your d's rejection...no more excuses. Make time for her and spend it with her.

If my dad had insisted on spending Sundays with me, I'd have appreciated it at some level even if I feigned resentment then...at some level, I'd know my dad loved me enough to make time with me HIS priority, and no blaming my mom for "not letting him see me".



o and that we should book our Japan trip together, before I leave.

YOU Make it happen.

o this fixes my loneliness helps meet my social needs during the day problem very nicely

o I'd tell my MIL that W and I are divorced, and see if she still lets me stay in her house (I could also pay) - MIL and her boyfriend seem to enjoy my company.

I have a former sil whom I will always love. I cannot imagine NOT having her in my life so I'd expect your MIL to keep you in her life and if I were you, I'd make darn sure she knows that YOU will keep her in YOUR LIFE...so you do the reassuring. Got that?


o that way W doesn't get to fob off the caretaking of the house onto me: here, dear husband, water, dust, feed the cats, cut the grass, and make sure it stays clean.

No one is forcing you to stay there Luke. No one...plus she warned you that she was leaving --a long time ago, and for the most part, you did nothing new or different with her.

Luke, do You ever wonder why you did not get an apartment in Stockholm to be closer to your d and her new school, yourself?

I mean, can you see how your w might feel that you did pretty much leave it all up to her? That she decided to act and not wait for you to move in any direction?


Bye, I am taking our daughter to live and have a nice time with in Stockholm.

L

OR

"Bye, I'm assuming full responsibility for OUR D and living in a tiny apartment while YOU WIN by getting the nice home on the lake with your well paying job that takes you all around the world and all I have is our d, who will leave me soon to go live HER life..."

I mean, she has her own perspective too...

the question is now all about how YOU WILL LIVE YOUR LIFE.

And so, what's it going to be? Are you going to take charge of your life -

or will you keep giving the power to your "pretend wife"?

(I Say "pretend wife" -- for what I assume are obvious reasons).

Ready to be the author of your life from NOW on?

[LuckyLuke]

Wonka, Bond, MLC, all,

Wonka - thanks for the reminder to stick it out with d16. This whole episode is teaching me things and this is certainly part of it. Yes, I can see hanging with Dad may not be the most exciting activity for her.

I found out when fall break is here and asked what d16 would like to do on our planned trip, so making it a bit more real for her. It was fun to hear what my nearly adult daughter was interested in (climbing Mt. Fuji, but it is too late in the year, and seeing sumo!).

Bond - it was I who started the discussion with d16, I laid out the problems, and I listened, treating her as an adult. She did not dictate what I should do (this was already pretty clear from a discussion with my sister), but rather affirmed it for me. I thought the interchange was very good. These sort of talks should not happen too often, I think, though, as they are weighty for a 16 yr old and have the possibility of parent child role inversion.


MLC - it was my d16 who told me that she and PW would be living in Stockholm during the week, not my PW. I looked up what my legal rights are re custody and division of property (PW = Pretend Wife, to use your terminology) and Sweden is pretty simple on that front.

My PW has done this escape thing before, twice, getting her own apartment while we were married (!). I got invited over a lot, sure, but it was clearly a matter of needing A Room of One's Own. The arrangement seems to be envisioned that the girls come home on the weekend, relax, clean up, and finish up the house in preparation for selling. I should confront PW and ask what she is thinking.

Yes, I need to take more charge. Divorcing here is very simple, no lawyer required, with the two of us just signing a form and sending it and a payment into the local courthouse. W has said she just wants half the house, so that makes it even easier.

I filled some cracks in a beam this morning, a tiny task closer to selling.


The Tiny Buddha website has good thoughts on letting go (and I am sentimental and attached to things and places and people):

"I thought, “Wow, maybe this is the opportunity to really pursue what I want to do with the rest of my life! What if the universe was just gently pushing me out of my comfortable nest, and forcing me to fly?”

And thus I have discovered: Sometimes the dreams we chase and the life we design for ourselves really do provide us with happiness and peace, and yet sometimes it takes letting go, and having faith like we have faith in our next breath, that there is a divine and perfect order; we just might not be seeing it at the time. "

This non-attachment stuff seems to contradict being in love though, at least love of the usual kind. Any married Buddhists out there who can advise?

I sometimes think that retirement could be biking from place to place, moving with the seasons, enjoying wherever I am, until a truck abruptly ends the tale.

L

[LuckyLuke]

MLC - you had a number of questions that I didn't answer.

Yes, I could have taken an apartment myself, but expected the future to be like the past (commute from here, an hour away from d16 school, which is what she did last year). The changed living situation broadsided me.

Got it on the MIL front - thanks. My MIL is actually kinder and closer to me than my W!

Going to the West Coast for 2 months sounds good for the moment. I have subscribed to an apartment finding service already, which actively sends you notifications of new places that match your criteria.

No, I don't think she sees my staying in the house as better than her small place. She gets to be away from me, whom she can't stand being with (to quote).

Yes, fear drove me, wanting to hang on to the familiar, the comforting, the known. I guess I need to learn to let go.

Thx - L

[KenF]

"Going to the West Coast for 2 months sounds good for the moment."

is this just a method to help you put off taking action?

as Wonka said, Just do it. stop analyzing, discussing, planning, thinking - these are all just methods of procrastination. get out of your head and just do it.

[MrBond]

"I guess I need to learn to let go. "

That's actually all you've been doing. You don't even have a co-parenting relationship with your W. That is something that you should (at the very least) try to establish.

[LuckyLuke]

I feel like I am coming from a weak position, again, asking for co-parenting with my W. She has already stated that d16 has the right to be where she chooses to. She and d16 spend 95+% of d16's free time together. Why is it good for d16 to be with me also - what benefit does it bring her? Sure, I can take her on some trips, and help with math and scientific school stuff, but is there something beyond that?

L