So, it seemed H and I were making some good positive progress. Unfortunately big setback tonight. Multiple times we have discussed the need for a transparency plan but have never gone into specifics. H has asked a few times to hear them so I agreed to meet him today to discuss details. Things went South from item #1. Specifically, I told him that there is to be absolutely no contact with OW. This, of course, is infidelity recovery 101, which he darn well knows. Well, did that sure open a can of worms! H and OW work at the same company but she is at an office 2 hours away. Originally I thought that they never worked together but it turns out that apparently they DO work together on occasion. Apparently they were both on a conference call together just a few weeks ago. A couple of months ago they worked on a little project together. I was SHOCKED to hear this. Truly, felt blindsided YET AGAIN.
I told H that this is all news to me and I’m not sure I can live with knowing he could be in contact with her at any time due to work, even if he is honest about it. I said I have to think about things but I may need him to find another job. He totally balked at this. Needless to say, things are NOT looking good. Once again, he is saying that he wants to reconcile and will do ‘whatever it takes’ (literally stated exactly this). But when it comes down to brass tacks he just will not put his money where his mouth is.
Fortunately I happened to have an appointment with my DBing coach just a few hours later. I told her I am starting to feel like I cannot stomach spending time with him anymore. Emotionally, it is just too devastating to hang out, have a fantastic time, have him SAY all the right things only to be let down again and again. This has happened now multiple times pretty much from d-day 4 months ago. So I’m planning to step away from H and send the letter below. HOWEVER, there is one wrinkle, prior to our discussion today H had invited me to a concert this weekend with him and his older son and older son’s fiance. DBing coach thought it might be worthwhile, if I feel comfortable, to table things for a few days and still go to the concert with H. THEN send him the letter below. That way he would (hopefully) be left with a positive memory of us having fun before I back away. I’m still trying to decide if I feel comfortable with this idea.
Here's the letter I'm planning to send to him:
“I’ve been thinking a lot about our conversation last Wednesday. It seems that you are still unwilling to prioritize our marriage and do what is needed to save and protect it. As you know, I have suffered tremendous pain through this whole ordeal. At this point I feel I need to take steps to protect my heart as much as possible from any more suffering.
As much as I will miss connecting and spending time with you I feel I now need to step back and keep a distance. If for some reason you feel I have misunderstood anything from our conversation please let me know. Otherwise going forward I will have to keep our interactions focused on the kids.”
Any thoughts/feedback much appreciated. I am mulling things over the next day or two. I’m starting to feel more and more like H is just never going to come fully around. It’s an awful feeling.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
Before you send the message (which I think is a bad idea), have you and your H discussed MC?
I would suggest you do that first before telling him he would need to change his job. YOu have to understand that that is a big step. Not so easy to find a job nowadays in this economy. The MC should be able to relay to him your concerns in a way that maybe you haven't been able to.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
We went to a MC during our prior reconciliation attempt and the MC actually told us to separate because it was clear then too that H was not really committed to working on the marriage. It feels like this is more of the same.
My issue with H is more his reaction. If he were to say something like 'Ok, I will do whatever it takes and if you need me to brush up my resume and start job hunting that's what I'll do but I'm concerned I might not find another job' then that I could certainly understand. But the fact that he balks and does not (IMO) seem to 'get' what infidelity recovery takes is deeply concerning to me. He knows that no contact is a requirement. The MC told him that, he and I read an infidelity book together and a few articles that all say the same thing. I'm truly shocked that he is continuing contact with her. He knows better and he has a staff, I can't imagine that someone else on his team can't handle this woman! Also, he has accused me of making my job too much of a priority above him/the family (which I've really pulled back on). I can't tell you how many times he's said 'its just a job'. So his reaction also feels very hypocritical.
I'm curious why you think the message is a bad idea?
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
So utterly confused what to do next. Go to the concert with H, don't go to the concert. Give him the letter, don't give him the letter. Go to the concert THEN give him the letter as discussed with DBing coach. Or scratch the letter and do something else entirely. Maybe go dark (or as dark as one can go when co-parenting). Or do something really crazy like give him a call and try to actually talk to him about what went down yesterday. Now that would be novel!
I am just so shocked that he would think any contact with OW is ok in any way, shape or form. Just goes to show that once again I have been too trusting and naïve about where his head is REALLY at. I'm totally baffled by his behavior of late, we had been connecting so much. For this to come out now seems just so crazy. I don't get it at all.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
mdu - haven't been where you are yet, but I'm in agreement with Bond.
Changing jobs is not to be taken lightly, especially at your H's age. It's a big, big, thing.
It would be ideal if you could always have absolute NC, but you may have to think through how much you can bend this, and whether you can trust him to honor the spirit of NC. As you said, you will have to judge whether he understands why you need NC and if he can meet your requirement without leaving his job.
For example, if I were to insist on absolute NC between OM and W right now, (not that we're at that stage, but she does seem to have left him for now) she would have to quit the volunteer job that she does for the school activity. They attend a meeting together twice a month. That would potentially ruin the season for a hundred kids. Would I do that or trust W? Mind you it's only for a few months, but you see what I mean.
Now only you know your H and whether he is in this or not, but at some point, you are going to have to trust.
I would go to the concert.
I would not send the letter yet; you have some thinking to do about how you are going to manage trust going forward.
mdu, I think you are being really unfair with your husband.
"More of the same" ??? Really? Have all of his efforts counted for NOTHING with you?
This is why I'm in favor of CLEAR no-contact & transparency plans, openly communicated and clearly understood by both betrayed spouse and wayward spouse. You guys never did that, and you can SAY that "he clearly knows I needed no contact!" or whatever, but the fact is that you guys left this issue unbuttoned-up.
I'm NOT saying that reconciliation can work if he continues to have contact with her -- I believe that it almost certainly can't -- and I'm not even saying he's not being totally insensitive to your feelings (he is), or that he's not underestimating how much he's playing with fire (he is!).
But I wouldn't start painting any ultimatums about a subject left so tenuous.
I advise people to ask themselves this question throughout the DB process:
Will this action bring me closer to the goal?
To me, the letter you're wanting to send to H, will not accomplish that goal. In fact, it will turn him off and set yourself & the M back in a big way.
Your H is:
-spending more time with you -making plans with you -attending events with YOU -said he want to "do whatever it takes" to make the M work
Now to the XOW at work. I've seen situations where the WAS move to a different departments, buildings or units. From a practical standpoint, I am not sure if H is able to do those things due to his position in the company.
Focus on the big picture. The XOW works in another place as you say here. They come only for projects that involve other people. Doesn't mean that the affair is still going on. I believe that H is in a grit and bear situation here that he has no control over.
It is all about your fears and that fearful thinking has caused you to write the letter as a way to regain some semblance of control over the M. Not good.
Trust. But trust and verify.
I think it would be a good time to discuss your triggers with H about the XOW to make him aware of how it affects you. This will give him an opportunity to step up and take some actions to reassure YOU that he's protecting you and the M.
You just don't know until you give him the opportunity to do so.
I think it would be a good time to discuss your triggers with H about the XOW to make him aware of how it affects you. This will give him an opportunity to step up and take some actions to reassure YOU that he's protecting you and the M.
You just don't know until you give him the opportunity to do so.
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the feedback. I was starting to come to the conclusion on my own that I should give H a little more of a chance here, at least to discuss his POV on NC and the potential job change. So I'm glad I'm starting to line up with you all, albeit a bit slower to get there ;-)
The contact through work really threw me. It really freaked me and made me worry and wonder what else I don't know. I'm sure there's a butt load.
I do have a question, though. I get trust but verify...but how can I possibly verify a work situation? For example, let's say that we agree he stays at his job but must completely minimize any contact with her (e.g., have one of his employees handle whatever she needs instead of him). How can I possibly verify that he is actually following through on this? And what about if/when they HAVE to work on something together. How can I possibly verify that they really kept it 'just about business'? It just seems like an impossible situation. It's a small company and he's high up in it so there's no place else for him to move within.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
I am curious as to how you and W handled her XOM who was her boss at that time. What was the process back then? How did W disengage from the XOM at the workplace? How did you handle that particular aspect from your end?
I'm thinking that your experience with the XOP at the workplace might help MDU here.
