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PeterV2 Offline OP
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I think my thread filled up.
Previous thread is:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...116#Post2467116

Went to MC yesterday. Seems last time W was there she's saying that she does love me. But in person with me she holds back.
She deleted some intimate pictures I had of her on my computer a month ago. I undeleted them. Last week I was away for the evening and she went on my computer again and found them. She was upset that I still have them after she had asked me to delete them months ago. I don't recall her asking me that but she insists and now she's upset that I didn't. She claims I agreed to delete them, but I don't recall saying I would. I remember her saying she didn't like me having them.
Anyway, I just deleted them yesterday and told her that I did. Maybe that'll help rebuilding trust. At least on my part.
I still have a suspicion that she's in contact with OM, but I think I just could be mind reading. MC seems to think it's over and things between us seem to be improving very gradually so maybe it is over. Still she won't show me her phone. Maybe there are other reason for that - not ready to give up control of her last piece of privacy. She said she is suffering burnout and needs a break. She says she has to find herself, and regain her identity. She says I still need to work on myself. She is still harbouring anger and is stuck with that anger, but she says she's ok to be stick because she realizes it's part of the process and she'll get unstuck in due course. In the meantime I'm still working on myself. Keeping fit and happy as I can be. Being calm, cool and collected at all times.
I hope asking her to stay the night with me at our home for our anniversary doesn't come off too much as pursuing. I only asked once. I won't ask again. We'll see.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
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PeterV2 Offline OP
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M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 323
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Hey Peter,

I'm a bit confused. Because it seems like some of your posts disappeared. I thought I read you had a decent anniversary, and pursued your W a bit to stay over?

Just wanted to let you know, I know your anniversary was a tough time, but I've seen you post some great messages on detachment and affairs. You've got all the concepts and your doing great. We all backslide. It happens. The thing that will make the biggest difference is what isn't said. Your actions, and your recognizing and making changes with those.

The one piece of advice I would say, is really try to avoid basing your mood on her actions. It's very tough, but the solid strong Peter is going to be more attractive to your W than the controlling, moody Peter. Be the man you are, walk the walk and talk the talk. Keep up the good work.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Thanks Dev. I did continue my previous thread for a few more posts but it seems now to have locked up.

W is leaving for a vacation tomorrow for 9 days - visiting a common friend in Miami. Helped her pack tonight. Had a bite to eat together. I was cool, calm & collected. We hugged & kissed good-bye and I went home. She sent me a couple of texts before going to bed. Threw me a kiss (:*)

I'm going to stay detached while she's gone. I'm fairly confident that she's not meeting the OM there. Just the way she was talking about what she plans on doing for the next 9 days. Sleeping for the first 3 - she is sleep deprived and burnt out from 18 months of non-stop working without a break. Whatever she does makes no difference to me anyway at this point as long as she has a chance to clear her head. I'm just going to continue on with GAL and enjoying myself.

When she returns next Thursday, I'll be leaving the following morning on a 4 day hike with my 2 sons. She said she's planning on meeting us at the end of the hike on day 4. We'll see if she follows through.

Yeah I had a rough Saturday night. I'm better now. Spent a lot of time in bed on Sunday. I guess I just needed to get some stuff out of my system. I guess sometimes I spew too. smile


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
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Hey Pete . Things seem to be shaping up for you for sure . Im envious for sure . I have no idea what my wife is up to when shes not home . Although i have suspicions that there is a new guy in the picture , and hes single . Backwhen things were good she told me about this guy she new from school and child hood. She said he moved back home from the west . He split up from his wife and his kids are grown . She said she was going to a funeral with him last night . I said you dont want to go with your husband and she said that i didnt know the woman very well but he did and so did she . I think theres something going on but who knows . i care less and less every day . As much pain as shes inflicted on me , its hard to keep on loving .

Some days i feel like telling her to leave and I never want to see her again , but then other days I ache just to be close to her . I still want her but more and more everyday its for the kids . Shes just doing too much damage too my soul . How can I ever forgive her for hurting me soooo much and continuing to do so . Have you had the same thoughts Pete? Im looking for light at the end of the tunnel . Its like i see a light and it gets brighter by times but then somebody adds another section to the tunnel and it gets dimmer again . At least the light is not totally gone although times itd been down to a flicker


Me 45 W 45
Son 16 Son 14
Married 23 together 27
W threatened sep several times
W still at home
A discovered Mar 17 2014
A ended DEC 2 ( skeptical )
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PeterV2 Offline OP
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Dawgy;
I went through 5 months of hell, Dec 2013 until May 2014. Total rollercoaster ride. At one point early Jan I had a meeting set up with a divorce lawyer. Then W came over and said she was going to end it with OM. So I cancelled my appt.I thought she ended it but then I followed her in March and she met with the OM for coffee and a few passionate embraces and kisses in his car outside the coffee shop. Her rendezvous went on for the month of March until I confronted him.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
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PeterV2 Offline OP
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...Continued (sorry had to cut out suddenly)
So it took about 6 months for her to say the affair was over after I had discovered it in Dec - it had already been going on for at least 9 months without me knowing. Yeah it's been hard. I've had days when I considered suicide. I've had days when I just wanted to say f it and file for D. And then I've had days when she holds me and kisses me. She still is not in love with me again but that will take time. I have improved myself. I work out 3 times a week - never did that before. I have figured out the pattern of behaviour that we engaged in as a couple which lead to the breakdown of our M and now that I know it I can spot it every time and nip it in the bud - that's the essence of what you have to do Dawgy. Figure out what went wrong. It only took me 7 months to figure that out. It's a long hard road, but yes there is light at the end of the tunnel, although the tunnel sometimes is longer than it appears at first. Hang in there.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Apr 2006
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Originally Posted By: PeterV2
...Continued (sorry had to cut out suddenly)
So it took about 6 months for her to say the affair was over after I had discovered it in Dec - it had already been going on for at least 9 months without me knowing. Yeah it's been hard. I've had days when I considered suicide.

Are you still thinking of that often? Don't you have children too? Why didn't you kill yourself? I only ask b/c I want you to think of those same reasons every time it enters your mind.

After your first marriage ended, how did you handle that? What got you thru it?


I've had days when I just wanted to say f it and file for D. And then I've had days when she holds me and kisses me. She still is not in love with me again but that will take time. I have improved myself. I work out 3 times a week - never did that before.

Great...anything else? Anything specific?


I have figured out the pattern of behaviour that we engaged in as a couple which lead to the breakdown of our M and now that I know it I can spot it every time and nip it in the bud - '

Can you list some^^ of those behaviors that you are now spotting and working on or nipping in the bud?


that's the essence of what you have to do Dawgy. Figure out what went wrong.

And get the tools needed to prevent or correct it. Knowing what went wrong is the first piece and you'd be surprised how many identify a problem and then do not solve it...

there are so many resources available today it's crazy not to get professional help with it.



It only took me 7 months to figure that out. It's a long hard road, but yes there is light at the end of the tunnel, although the tunnel sometimes is longer than it appears at first. Hang in there.



Amen....but Peter, reading your thread i am struck by the amount of time you have devoted to not being so co-dependent and on detachment (well written)

yet you still seem to be that way. I mean, What has really substantially changed in you in that regard

since I still pick up a lot of obsessing going on?

Sorry but I do get that feeling that you are so needy of her and so focussed on her. What are your GAL activities and do any involve meeting new people?

They need to. Working out is taking care of yourself but it's not getting out of your comfort zone or meeting new people who do NOT know your situation.

For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. BTW, I had 3 kids including a baby (so you know I don't want to hear about how 'busy' you are, or 'too busy' to GAL).

Truly, Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. IMO, the more you overcome inertia and GAL, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w. Plus it'll help you detach.

As much as you wrote about detachment you didn't say a lot about HOW to do it.

IMO, you cannot detach without GAL. And you cannot get healthy or heal, without detaching...so first things first...

Here are some of the GAL things...

I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.

I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).
I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.

I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well.
I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.

I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding it.
Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license.
Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)

I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. (Plus I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly of their long LONG cold winters).

In the winter, I used a tanning booth, which helped me a lot with depression. I felt more energized, and it probably helped my appearance, which also helps us FEEL better.

Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.

Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).

Joined the Officer's Wives club after 15 years of active duty.

(Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)

Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking

There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do NOT cost a lot.

Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Hi 25yearsmlc. Thanks for your questions.

No. I don't think of suicide anymore. That was only in the days after I discovered the A. Yes I have children and it would not set a good example. I didn't kill myself because I have too much going for me. Not to toot my own horn, but I have many redeeming qualities, talents and abilities.

My first marriage ended when my wife had an A and asked me to move out. Our relationship had gone downhill, we hadn't slept together for 10 years and it basically fizzled out. It wasn't the marriage either of us wanted anyway, however we did produce 3 amazing children, all gifted and talented.

As for self improvement I've become more aware of my emotional life, I've become more empathetic, seeing things from another's point of view, I've slowed way down - I used to be run-run-run frantic and so busy I'd fill any open time with activities. I was on half a dozen committees and boards of directors. My franticness would make my W anxious. My W always asked to spend time doing fun stuff, but I was so busy I rarely took her up on it. Now I have time to read and relax. I quit all my committees and boards.

My W & I run a retirement home - well that's her business, but I do help her a lot. I have my own business as well. But she's burnt out from working 18 month steady since we bought the place (although she did take time out to have an A - I guess that was her escape).

In our marriage, she would give in to my wishes all the time, because she wanted to please me, she didn't want to disappoint me. I ate it up. But she felt like she started losing her identity and then she started feeling resentful. She kept saying, "I just want my life back", but I didn't really understand what she meant my that. Now I know. She catered to me to the detriment of her own individuality.

Now if she does something for me because I ask but it's not exactly what she wants, I stop her and tell her not to do it. Only do it if she really wants to in her heart. Don't do it to please me or to not disappoint me. So I've caught her a couple of times in the last couple of weeks and I stopped her, saying that this is the pattern of behaviour that got us into this mess, and I won't let it continue. Still I need to keep hyper vigilant to make sure we don't engage in that pattern of behaviour.

Detachment: yes I'm having a very hard time with that. I've been going over my detachment manifesto with my IC and will continue in that thread with my IC later this coming week.

My W & I see each other almost every day. I love her dearly and she says she loves me. However she is very angry at me and can't seem to let go of that anger. It's preventing her from R. That makes me sad. It makes her sad too, but she's ok with being stuck - she says it's part of the process. So it's hard to detach when we spend so much time together. I think that's good, trying to fill the love bucket.

As for GAL activities, I was going to the jazz club every Sat night. I tried Tai Chi once - didn't really like it. I play in a rock band weekly. But I haven't really gone out and done something totally new for me. I like just staying home and reading. I'm a bit of a loner I guess, although I do really enjoy going out and meeting new people. I just haven't done it.

Thanks for the suggestions, 25yearsmlc. I do need to get out and do stuff, meet people. Even when I sit at home and read, it angers my W because she envious that I have time to read. Sort of stupid, because she has time to read to, but she can't seem to concentrate or focus enough to read - her mind is still scrambled. She does watch a lot of Netflix. That's her down time. So I guess I'll have to see what's going on in town and try out a few groups. I could volunteer - there's lots of demand for that.

I'm going on a 4 day hike with my sons this coming weekend. But right now I'm busy reshingling my roof - got another 3 or 4 days to get it done, while my W is in Florida taking a much needed vacation. She'll be back Thursday and then I'm gone on the hike Friday, so we'll touch base Thursday night. I haven't heard from her at all in 2 days. I'm not about to text her or call her. I'll wait for her to initiate contact with me.

It's been quiet from the W for 2 days now. I hope she's getting sleep - she was sleep deprived for a long time since she was working the night shifts at the retirement home.

So that's it from here.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Originally Posted By: PeterV2
Hi 25yearsmlc. Thanks for your questions.

No. I don't think of suicide anymore. That was only in the days after I discovered the A. Yes I have children and it would not set a good example. I didn't kill myself because I have too much going for me. Not to toot my own horn, but I have many redeeming qualities, talents and abilities.

Glad to hear this^^. grin (seriously)


My first marriage ended when my wife had an A and asked me to move out. Our relationship had gone downhill, we hadn't slept together for 10 years and it basically fizzled out.

That's a LONG time to put up with a sexless (loveless??) marriage. 10 years...why do you think it fizzled out?

I mean, I know that no sex for a decade kills most marriages - but why did that happen in the first place? (I assume that is what you are referring to when you say it "fizzled out". )

So, any insights there?


It wasn't the marriage either of us wanted anyway, however we did produce 3 amazing children, all gifted and talented.

I assume ^^ that means the kids are happy and well adjusted? So, why would both of you have a marriage neither wanted? Why do YOU think?

Yes This does matter, btw. It's not "all irrelevant history" -- if there are any patterns or lessons Unlearned.


As for self improvement I've become more aware of my emotional life, I've become more empathetic, seeing things from another's point of view, I've slowed way down - I used to be run-run-run frantic and so busy I'd fill any open time with activities.

How or in what way do you think you now show increased awareness of your emotional life (what does that mean exactly, anyhow?)

And how are you showing increased empathy? I ask you this for a reason Peter, but NOT b/c I'm doubting it. Specificity builds believability and consistency...so the more specific you are in your behavior changes, the more believable they are AND the more consistent you'll be with them. Make sense?


I was on half a dozen committees and boards of directors. My franticness would make my W anxious. My W always asked to spend time doing fun stuff, but I was so busy I rarely took her up on it. Now I have time to read and relax. I quit all my committees and boards.

Not sure about how you know she "felt anxious" but I can easily see how she'd see a frantic "too busy to live" approach in you.

To be rejected/turned down when she offered you a fun thing to do, so you could keep an outside commitment, would make any wife unhappy.

I hope by quitting the extraneous activities (most married parents with 3, do NOT belong to half a dozen committees or boards).

I'm actually wondering about the whole :"father stays at home" thing now, for you. Maybe you ought to work (for money) so you can ease your wife's anxieties AND you won't be working much more than now, yet you'll be earning money.

In other words, that much unpaid work, with kids, is almost a sabotaging of your family's finances. Just think about that okay?


My W & I run a retirement home - well that's her business, but I do help her a lot. I have my own business as well. But she's burnt out from working 18 month steady since we bought the place (although she did take time out to have an A - I guess that was her escape).

In our marriage, she would give in to my wishes all the time, because she wanted to please me, she didn't want to disappoint me.


When you read the "Five Love Languages", focus in on what happens when a woman goes on without her love tanks being filled for a very long time, which is clearly the case here....and think about how rushed you seem to be, given how 'long you have waited in limbo" compared to how long SHE endured having few or none of HER needs met. She stayed and stayed and worked and worked...

Hey, not trying to guilt you but giving you a heads up about the shoe on the other foot/. Since you are working on empathy and all....



I ate it up. But she felt like she started losing her identity and then she started feeling resentful.


That^^ can't be a shock, right? I mean, that reaction is normal isn't it?


She kept saying, "I just want my life back", but I didn't really understand what she meant my that.

So what did you do?



Now I know. She catered to me to the detriment of her own individuality.


I think (but am not positive) that any time someone "Caters" to another, it can't be something that lasts AND is positive. It can only be in a "gift" situation or illness/recovery because by it's very nature, it's unfair. It's one sided.


Now if she does something for me because I ask but it's not exactly what she wants, I stop her and tell her not to do it. Only do it if she really wants to in her heart. Don't do it to please me or to not disappoint me. So I've caught her a couple of times in the last couple of weeks and I stopped her, saying that this is the pattern of behaviour that got us into this mess, and I won't let it continue. Still I need to keep hyper vigilant to make sure we don't engage in that pattern of behaviour.

Hey, no offense, okay? But this^^ implies that SHE must change HER behavior. The reality is You do as well. What are you doing to keep your needs in check? How are you working on NOT asking so much of her, so often?

How are you doing learning about what she does like and enjoy, so you know you are not again asking her to "endure" something she does not enjoy?


Detachment: yes I'm having a very hard time with that. I've been going over my detachment manifesto with my IC and will continue in that thread with my IC later this coming week.

My reaction to your "manifest" (well named, btw) was that it was way too complicated & long. Overly so.

I felt as if you were bludgeoning someone with that opinion, and I could not help but wonder how much of it was truly needed. Yes--yes it was well written, albeit repetitive. I liked almost all of it.

But altogether, it was too long for something that needs to come natural to us. Then, along with the other pages of material you printed, I had to wonder if this was just SO MUCH stuff in your head, and not enough sinking into your heart.

Any ideas?


My W & I see each other almost every day. I love her dearly and she says she loves me.

Is it possible you ought to keep your feelings to yourself for a bit? I think she knows how you feel, don't you? I mean, was that an issue for you two?


However she is very angry at me and can't seem to let go of that anger. It's preventing her from R.

A reconciliation at this point would be premature. I mean, don't rush this. It's far better to take it slowly, b/c rushing it often ends it for good.

What NEW told do you have for dealing with things? What are your NEW GAL and 180s? You said a few vague things about them, but you really seem to want to rush back and Peter,

you rush at your peril
.



That makes me sad. It makes her sad too, but she's ok with being stuck - she says it's part of the process.

SHE has not been at this in a DB way for very long, nor have you. "Stuck" is more for couples at this for years and that was your Last marriage, not this one. Maybe your past is making you more in a hurry b/c you don't want to waste so much time again..


So it's hard to detach when we spend so much time together. I think that's good, trying to fill the love bucket.


So these^^ two sentences conflict. You think it's hard to detach when you are together but i the next sentence you reveal you do not want to detach' you want to show her the new you. But you can do both at the same time, detach AND show the new you.

IN fact in your situation being detached would be a 180 and would also show her the new you but you also have to show somehow that SHE and spending time with her are your priorities.


As for GAL activities, I was going to the jazz club every Sat night. I tried Tai Chi once - didn't really like it. I play in a rock band weekly. But I haven't really gone out and done something totally new for me. I like just staying home and reading. I'm a bit of a loner I guess, although I do really enjoy going out and meeting new people. I just haven't done it.

I call BS on that^^. IT's Double speak for you being stuck and Not getting out of your comfort zone. If I were in your shoes, I'd do whatever I can to expand my comfort zones ASAP.
Period.

You have a history of changing too slowly, and being in a mediocre relationship or being the cause of one, for a decade.

That's just Way too long. What can You do? YOU can Work harder, dig deeper and figure out what about YOU -not them-- makes it hard to stay invested.

What can YOU do differently so you are not here again in 3 years?


Thanks for the suggestions, 25yearsmlc. I do need to get out and do stuff, meet people.


Even when I sit at home and read, it angers my W because she envious that I have time to read.

Why do you say she is angry and what did SHE SAY to you about it? If she truly does not have time to read, YOU need to help her get some.

Why do you believe she is envious of you having time to read? B/c she doesn't? B/c she works and does housework, and you don't but you do have time to "read and relax?"

What can you do to help her so she doesn't do all the work? How can you help her have some free time and what can you do in your free time to help around the house or finances?


Sort of stupid, because she has time to read to, but she can't seem to concentrate or focus enough to read - her mind is still scrambled.

^^^ this is you totally mind reading and totally absolving yourself of any role in her schedule. Maybe that's fair...maybe



She does watch a lot of Netflix. That's her down time.


Okay that sounds what exhausted people do....but I'm sensing some judgement on it. Or not?



So I guess I'll have to see what's going on in town and try out a few groups. I could volunteer - there's lots of demand for that.


I'd start with making HER LIFE EASIER, helping HER GAL, and then work on the GAL things for you. It's something she has every right to want, and I think she has been clear there, don't you?


I'm going on a 4 day hike with my sons this coming weekend. But right now I'm busy reshingling my roof - got another 3 or 4 days to get it done, while my W is in Florida taking a much needed vacation. She'll be back Thursday and then I'm gone on the hike Friday, so we'll touch base Thursday night. I haven't heard from her at all in 2 days. I'm not about to text her or call her. I'll wait for her to initiate contact with me.

Makes sense. Has she contacted the kids at all? And do you have 2 sons and a daughter or 3 sons? I thought I read you had 4 kids, but must have confused you with someone else.


It's been quiet from the W for 2 days now. I hope she's getting sleep - she was sleep deprived for a long time since she was working the night shifts at the retirement home.

So that's it from here.


Keep on keeping on. Do what works, and Do NOT do what doesn't work.

Sure, it IS simple. But it's not easy... just not complicated.

Stick to it.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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