confrontation methods?

[pbetra]

Hi everyone,

hope that you are progressing well on all your journeys whatever they are.

I have been busy reading Cadet's homework assignments as advised. Recently, I find myself tearful quite frequently. My PMA has been weakening a bit recently.

I would like my h to experience the world 'out there'. As long as he is with me, he takes a lot for granted and continues with his masked hatred . The other day his response was a grunt before he quickly corrected it into a false deceitful smile & pleasing tone. His poker face & acting skills are amazing. He is unaware of the fact that I have heard the nasty, crude obscenities directed toward me when in washroom - before he comes out with a pleasant almost zen like demeanor.

He is here because he has no choice. $$ I think this makes it worse. He hates to need me. He can also rationalize this - For years I was homemaker so he probably thinks he is entitled anyway, hence the blatent using.

It's a jeckyll hyde (can't remem sp.) thing - often the pleasant look as soon as I appear. I entered a room unaware that he was there. He did not hear me at first. The expression on his face was intense until he heard me - changing in a sec. & with all 'the pleasantries' because he needs a small loan until one of his small checks come in.

It is clear why he is here.
1 - He doesn't have enough to support himself independently and
2 - he hasn't been lucky finding that 'fine young 25 yr old thing' he's looking for. I know a date feel through sometime ago.
It's funny, now, I actually WANT him to experience his true reality re others.

My good nature, natural patience & sense of understanding has been very much taken for granted. I was able to look past a lot! (I realize now that this is due to my own issues which I am trying to identify and work on. What I deem 'normal' isn't always normal - & how to differentiate between the two, that fine line (!) is a skill I have to develop). Point is he's been trying to pick up OW at these bars and hasn't been able to start a relationship. I realize that I indirectly enable all because he isn't out there long enough - here is always a buffer when things don't work out. He needs COLD hard reality - he is not as easy to be with as he assumes!! I am practically like a buddha - he told his friends before that "im so cool, not heated like so many women". I have had so much 'drama' in my life that I chose my battles carefully & disregard much, not seeing them as worth the additional stress. This can be taken advantage of/taken for granted sometimes.

Getting back though - this is so hard. I have been trying for my child, who is not doing well at all (more info. link below, mlc rut) I have no problem trying to support someone emotionally, mentally, financially etc .. being there FOREVER IF they are sincere with me. Even a sincere 'smart ass', I could 'put up' with a little if they liked me LOL, but you got to like/love me ... I am not prepared to do this for someone who projects all the casualites of their life unto me and hates me for it and is lucky enough to get a buffer through me, when things are not working out for them. I am just being used while he tries to get his way worked out.

I am trying to work n an exit strat. Am crying as I look at my child sleeping beside me as I type. This i s awful
Have been reading Cadet's and haven't come across confrontation appproaches (boy it took me long to get to the point!! ) Confrontation was part of a response I came across, the other was 'sitting' it out w/mlcer (not advised) and i cannot recall the third. I do have it saved with all other info. to collate when my homework is complete, but did not think i would need it before then!! (If i locate it, will post).

For those who did confront your mlcer -
- how did you approach?
- what did you do?
- what did you bring up?

- & curious, how did they react?


re: link mentioned above, mlc rut
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2462460&page=1

Thx. for any info., & sincerely wish you all well with your journeys.

[Cadet]

First of all try to stick to one thread until you get to 100 posts, it will be less confusing in the future and easier to follow along with what you have been told and the details of your sich.

As far as confrontation, the only thing you can do is to have a boundary and enforce your boundary.
You can try to confront however it is also very likely that they wont listen or try follow anything that you say.
The ultimate boundary is divorce.

You can only control YOU, you cant make him do anything, you can change the way you react to what he does and hope that he changes.

However remember - NO EXPECTATIONS.

Hope that helps.

[pbetra]

Thanks Cadet for all the info.

sorry about the 'double post'. I thought that confrontation may have been a separate theme (?) & should not be 'buried' under multiple posts, in the event that someone needed that specific information (as I felt I did). will not in future ...

I have no intention of making h do anything, I have no hope re: him ... absolutely no expectations re our relationship. H needs to do what he needs to do - unfortunatley luck/$ isn't on his side, & impacting on me as 'the build up' continues. I have read many of your posts & others as I continue to do my homework. I know h won't listen. He has controlling mother, anything I do will be perceived as such. I am trying to control ME which is why I am at this junction.

You have made me think about the kind of boundaries I have to make.
Right now I want him away somehow - he makes me sick. I put a lot into the last few months. I am deeply hurt - now I feel the need for SPACE from him. I am becoming more anxious and depression is setting in. Can't think straight w/ him, feel freer when he steps out.

I will take a break -
> I will try to meditate.
> I will think about distance vs going dark
and maybe after the two ...
> I may come up with a boundry or two that can actually work in my sitch.

Thanks again for getting back as always. p

[juliegayle]

Pbetra

Just wanted to offer some support. I know it can be very difficult living in the same space with a spouse who is mean, angry and clearly doesn't want to be there. I am actually happy on the nights my h sees OW because I know I will have some peace.

Things are more civil now but up until about a month ago I felt how you described. I did start meditating and it helped. Also really working on detaching and not taking anything he said or did personally. It is hard but jeep working on it.

What boundaries I have set are for me. For example he can not talk to me in a disrespectful way. I cannot make him do that but I can walk away and not listen when he starts. The other is I will not engage if he has been drinking.

Good luck. Keep reading and posting hete. It will help keep you sane.

[ForeverYoung]

In my opinion there is no "confrontation" unless you are ready to start the D process. Why? Because like Cadet says, he won't listen. So, anytime you do confront, without any serious follow up consequences, you lose a little bit of power and credibility.

Better to accept what is, (remind yourself it won't always be that way) and take steps to make it work for you. Remember, a true MLC usually takes YEARS to play out. Having said that, I believe most will come out better people in the end, and will realize who was there for them while they were off and running.

The real question is will you still care or be there when this happens. Your choice, and you don't have to decide today.

[pbetra]

Pbetra

Just wanted to offer some support. I know it can be very difficult living in the same space with a spouse who is mean, angry and clearly doesn't want to be there. I am actually happy on the nights my h sees OW because I know I will have some peace.

Thanks juliegayle for your post. Today must be a low day for me
I didn't get much sleep well last night either. My part time carer did not show up (again). I need meds & food and a long list of things to do. Have to collect child at camp after ... laundry or my God.

I suppose the lack of sleep & the 'brave front' where my actions do not match my hurt feelings for so long is a bit much right now. And you know the rule "never let them see you cry" ...

You are right re: sharing space, I can relate to your feeling peace when your H is not there. I would love for him to find someone! He really needs it - the staring at young women, commenting as though I am not even there Your reminder re: detach shows me I need more work in that area. I think GAL will help if I can manage to shorten my to do list here at home some more (?!) OR maybe more sleep !!!LOL

I will also apply your boundaries to my sitch esp. >> can not talk to me in a disrespectful way. << This is typically abusive & condescending as though I am a child. Thx again, it was good to read of your sitch & where you are at the moment. Very encouraging
p.

[pbetra]

Better to accept what is, (remind yourself it won't always be that way) and take steps to make it work for you. Remember, a true MLC usually takes YEARS to play out. Having said that, I believe most will come out better people in the end, and will realize who was there for them while they were off and running.

The real question is will you still care or be there when this happens. Your choice, and you don't have to decide today.

ForeverYoung, hi,
I understand what you mean
re: >> anytime you do confront, without any serious follow up consequences, you lose a little bit of power and credibility <<

I think that part of the frustration for me (apart from immediate reply above to juliegayle) is that I began to doubt if he could change?!! And if any of this was worth it. I also have to manage my many responsibilities for which I feel stretched. With MLC, I no longer have help in other areas. I do EVERYTHING with very little time for myself.

I remembered hearing that some people are more phychologically minded than others. I think that those mlcers are more likely to make it through the tunnel (not that others can't - it probably helps) H's thinking is very 'b&w' & he's not overly sensitive (people like him are the reason coaching companies make LOTS of $$ with Sensitivity 101 sessions/courses. I'm not kidding!!). H has always been against any type of therapy (said something like "strangers shouldn't be exposed to other people's business"). This was the response years ago when I felt that a professional outside of 'our emotional sphere' could be objective to give us both direction, in the interest of building the relationship. Profanity followed my suggestion.

I am glad that I came here though. My fatigue must be affecting my peception & with that doubt creeps in. It hasn't been a year after all - & your post info. quoted above will benefit my kid anyway, since I must not act/think in haste. thanks again, p.

ps: found the post that started me thinking about confrontation - will include below 'fyi'

[pbetra]

please see related post / threads for complete information on subject if desired

Reference to Confrontation - & Consequences

Re: All Sermons on ONE thread-Lessons and ALL. This is concerning CYCLES /
(http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96158&page=1)

Quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
IS THE ONLY "SOLID" OPTION IN A OW-CYCLE AN ULTIMATUM -
or ARE THERE OTHER OPTIONS LBS HAS TO PREVENT WAS/'caker' "FROM GETTING AWAY WITH"(NO CONSEQUENCES) THIS BEHAVIOR ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
There are several possibilities the LBS can use, and the only three options are:

1. Ultimatum, which in the case of MLC won't work unless the MLC'er is READY to give OW up, and is attempting to CAKE-EAT.

2. Going dark without saying a word, but the WAS won't "get it" so a confrontation IN THE CASE OF OW is usually necessary BEFORE going dark.

3. Just tolerating the situation, and going on endlessly for years, allowing the cycle to continue - had to throw that one in-it is the LEAST desireable option, but one that is usually chosen because fear dictates the actions of the LBS.

I, quite honestly, don't see any OTHER ways of handling this type of situation WITHOUT a confrontation of some sort - the LBS has to come to the point of deciding what he/she will and won't tolerate and take action-and that course of action is UP to the individual who is on the receiving end of this.

Again, when you take a course of action, you LET GO of what the consequences may be (spouse goes on and leaves, etc). But understand we are human and there is so much even WE will tolerate before something must be done, and each of our tolerance levels are different-what is totally UNacceptable to one person may be totally Acceptable to another-each one of us are different-those differences must be taken into account

Also found:
MCL resources links # 5 & 6 > Great one liners - I & 2
The technique of distancing:

It really is very complex and there is not only ONE way to do it. A lot of people confuse "distancing" with "going dark". They are not the same. When you are detached you are naturally distancing. If you are needy you are pursuing.
Going dark is about NOT contacting them at all. Not talking to them at all. Avoiding them.
Distancing is being pleasant but busy, Too full of your own life to "notice" what your H is doing or not doing.

[pbetra]

Confrontating the issues

My apologies for starting this thread (as mentioned before) - I will return to my initial post, 'mlc rut', from today, as that is my primary 'journal entry'. I realize now that I should never have started here - & am sorry about the 'double posting' or confusion.

To reiterate, my reasoning was simple:
have all information pertaining to this SPECIFIC theme contained in ONE place & not buried within the pages of a growing post. This was due to my confusion (& growing DESPERATION !!! re: 'confrontation' w/ MLCer. Also, my (ignorant) assumption that there were specific steps to be taken, when MLCer has to be confronted - during the many 'delicate stages' of their unfortunate experience.

The (common) Issue:
> MLCer doesn't listen to LBS as you know (has zoned them out)
> MLCer views LBS as enemy - doesn't trust, is rewriting history, doesn't like us
> LBS advised to give MLCer 'space'
> LBS to be patient
(w/me - no longer have frequent sex - what little connection was left through sex is diminhing fast, as all other MLC symptoms & ailments continue 2 persist)

What we have to work with:
The LBS issues above + reality of MLC, 'our working material', below:
> misplaced anger & blame
> lacks rational,
> unstable condition, many unknowns
> is in flux, 'erractic, chaotic chemistry/brain' ...

My concern was:
> How does LBS confront MLCer to COMMUNICATE much needed boundaries?
(given the working material while dealing w/the issues)

My ignorance & assumption re possible approaches:
> there MUST BE something 'special' (!!) for confronting MLCer re boundaries,
> there MUST be equivalent methods for this, the way that there are solutions like > going dark, > PMA > holding back / patience > PMA, > 180 > LRT ...
there must be equivalent behaviours & methods for LBS to act on, when confronting someone who has emotionally separated the LBS, all while the LBS is trying (!!) to execute those very boundaries.
Exactly how many eggs to walk on ... or NOT? Or continue walking on ALL eggs while implementing strategy A, C but not F or W?

What I found out:
> the solution isn't as involved as I assumed re actionable steps to take! b/cause ...
> there are not any specific solutions!! there are no identifible boundary-making solutions with so much irrational thinking and behaviour.
> Each sitch is unique to each LBS anyway
Continue w/ GAL

What I read & found useful for my particular sitch (maybe yours?!):
1 - Advice on DB-ing when sep spouse lives at home (re posted by Cadet)
- http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...710#Post1779710

2 - 'Struggling with Boundaries' (a result of proximity in my sitch)
- http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2468118&page=1

Should I find any other related threads or techniques that work without scaring MLCer more, I will make reference to them
See u at mlc rut in not too distant future (if u visit)
p.

---------------
update since writing -
matt165 gave me an idea of how to deal w/sitch today, in 'Struggling with Boundaries'

[AJM]

Helpful information to be sure.

Curious, if you know that the solution isn't as involved regarding actionable steps, do you recommend being yourself and letting the chips fall where they fall? Or do you recommend something else?

From my experience, I would recommend a little different - Work on detaching from the outcome and the rest will follow. You'll have more confidence, you won't be surprised by or hurt by the outcome, and you won't be worried about what you say or do not say. Instead, you'll be authentically yourself.

That's not to say there aren't some things to learn. For example, arguing with a MLCr is akin to arguing with a teenager. May as well nail Jell-O to a tree. If you can. So if you know that, then calmly (see note on being detached and expectations) disarm the arguments. Try not to, but don't be afraid to, start arguments or attack a MLCr. Unless you've first mastered the art of nailing Jell-O to a tree. Then it may be safe to try.

You might also want to link MLC for dummies in your thread. It's a good, light-hearted bit of information worth noting when looking for a way to deal with boundaries.

Finally, you may also want to mention that boundaries are for you. Pick them carefully as you'll be tested. But once you pick one, mean it. I mean, mean it like you're the person they modeled Band of Brothers after and you're defending the hill. Be willing to die on that hill for your boundary, else don't set it.

As you work your way through this, you'll figure out exactly what you can and cannot live with. Chances are it won't be the things you thought going into it. I know for me, the cheating wasn't the biggest issue. That surprised me at first, but you really never know how you'll react until faced with something.

Life. Always an adventure!

AJ

[Wonka]

Pbetra,

Hiya! I am Wonka and am a former badass MLCer. Sorry to find you struggling mightily here.

Allow me to post a great summary from ForeverYoung on the differences between a simple WAS and a MLCer:

With a WAS: We are trying different things and seeing what "works".

With a MLC: Nothing we do is going to work until our spouse has made it through the tunnel.

That summarizes very nicely the action we take here when it comes to the MLCer...get the hell out of the runaway train that is coming bearing down right at ya!

Honey, confronting the MLCer is an exercise in futility. They need to explore outside in the field like a kitten and will come home as a mature cat. That applies to kitty kitten MLCers not those with awful Jekyll/Hyde MLCers who are truly lost waaaaay out there like Bea's.

Pbetra, your frustrations are compelling you to seek out the magic bullet against your MLCer. Sweetie, work on yourself and detaching from your H. That is the only WAY OUT you make it here.

You write:

> How does LBS confront MLCer to COMMUNICATE much needed boundaries?

For what reason are you looking here? What boundaries are you talking about here? Please be specific so you can get the proper assistance here.

there must be equivalent behaviours & methods for LBS to act on, when confronting someone who has emotionally separated the LBS, all while the LBS is trying (!!) to execute those very boundaries.

Yep. It's called detachment. You cannot control what the MLCer does or doesn't do. Detach from H and the sitch.

[MrBond]

After reading your posts, I can't help but feel that you are trying to control what he likes or doesn't like to do.

Just because you want him to experience the "real world" doesn't mean that he has to feel that way. Did you ever read the DB or DR books? It seems like you skipped all that.

[pbetra]

Hi AJ,

Helpful information to be sure.

Curious, if you know that the solution isn't as involved regarding actionable steps, do you recommend being yourself and letting the chips fall where they fall? Or do you recommend something else?

A: That's right, specifically no solution re: confrontation methods that I have found so far - eg. going dark etc. if I had no child, the chips would have fallen by now & I would have taken it step by step.

From my experience, I would recommend a little different - Work on detaching from the outcome and the rest will follow. You'll have more confidence, you won't be surprised by or hurt by the outcome, and you won't be worried about what you say or do not say. Instead, you'll be authentically yourself.

A: Thank you, I think that this is key & still a wip. My child is the emotional driver & this may be interfering somehow. I am still trying to figure out how. It's only been a few months since experience & am learning as I go. Am looking forward to the day when I can feel that confidence. Right now - it's just not happening

That's not to say there aren't some things to learn. For example, arguing with a MLCr is akin to arguing with a teenager. May as well nail Jell-O to a tree. If you can. So if you know that, then calmly (see note on being detached and expectations) disarm the arguments. Try not to, but don't be afraid to, start arguments or attack a MLCr. Unless you've first mastered the art of nailing Jell-O to a tree. Then it may be safe to try.

A: This is sound advice for all newbies. Luckily, I have not argued - (maybe here LOL) ... maybe that is part of the frustration? His arguements have always been much bigger than mine anyway. Has history of 'outbursts' - job, public .. someone taking too long to unpack groceries etc easily aggravated. My heart palpitations/anxiety starts. I have been more of a question & wait person, so refraining from arguement is 'ok' for me (under evaluation re: one of my new goals). However, being quiet & observant has also proved beneficial (not just this but generally- vs volatile) I very rarely act in haste with anything.


You might also want to link MLC for dummies in your thread. It's a good, light-hearted bit of information worth noting when looking for a way to deal with boundaries.

A: Actually read it when I first came here - don't remember very much though, so will read again. I do remember that it was funny & light hearted, but it affected me. It was a strange experience - on one hand, there was the humor but running closely beside was a feeling of sadness. I may be able to handle better now -thx 4 reminder.

Finally, you may also want to mention that boundaries are for you. Pick them carefully as you'll be tested. But once you pick one, mean it. I mean, mean it like you're the person they modeled Band of Brothers after and you're defending the hill. Be willing to die on that hill for your boundary, else don't set it.

A: This is exactly WHY this query began. I felt lost re my capability to deal w/this area. However, I have gotten some feedback (including YOU!) and now feel that i have enough to think about - something to begin with.

As you work your way through this, you'll figure out exactly what you can and cannot live with. Chances are it won't be the things you thought going into it. I know for me, the cheating wasn't the biggest issue. That surprised me at first, but you really never know how you'll react until faced with something.

A: I understand, right now I feel to let him go, do you thing - CHEAT! If that is what he needs to express MLC, then get it out. It's the callous using that occupies my foreground. It's affecting me & I am fighting to look past to see the whole picture. What is necessary now for good later. Maybe when he finds someone, I'll feel threatened(!!). But right now, I feel used - big time.

Life. Always an adventure!
AJ

Thanks again for your helpful advice. p

[pbetra]

Pbetra,
Allow me to post a great summary from ForeverYoung on the differences between a simple WAS and a MLCer:

With a WAS: We are trying different things and seeing what "works".
With a MLC: Nothing we do is going to work until our spouse has made it through the tunnel.

That summarizes very nicely the action we take here when it comes to the MLCer...get the hell out of the runaway train that is coming bearing down right at ya! [/i]
I agree w/ you Wonka - its the 'how' relative to my sitch, that I am working on

Honey, confronting the MLCer is an exercise in futility.
I realize this hence >>> What I found out:
> the solution isn't as involved as I assumed re actionable steps to take! b/cause ... there are not any specific solutions!! there are no identifible boundary-making solutions with so much irrational thinking and behaviour.

They need to explore outside in the field like a kitten and will come home as a mature cat. That applies to kitty kitten MLCers not those with awful Jekyll/Hyde MLCers who are truly lost waaaaay out there like Bea's.

Agree!! I think he needs to do this for himself- express his 'call to the street', his curiousity, or he will ALWAYS be miserable.

You write:
> How does LBS confront MLCer to COMMUNICATE much needed boundaries?
For what reason are you looking here? What boundaries are you talking about here? Please be specific so you can get the proper assistance here.

there must be equivalent behaviours & methods for LBS to act on, when confronting someone who has emotionally separated the LBS, all while the LBS is trying (!!) to execute those very boundaries.

A: Wonka, you will note that 'WAS' followed > My concern (was):
> How does LBS confront MLCer to COMMUNICATE much needed boundaries? Past tense.

I wrote a summary because I realized that the initial post didn't make sense. There is NO rational in all the chaos. I explained my reasoning when I first began thread, as I would be continuing my journalling experience where my initial 'bomb history' was first recorded.

Yep. It's called detachment. You cannot control what the MLCer does or doesn't do. Detach from H and the sitch.
A: You have me here Wonka, you've wonked me! Although detachING - still not detachED! So guilty!

Thanks for taking the time to reply - your post offered reassurance. Also, great meeting "a former badass MLCer". MLCers are such celebrities around here! They hold the key to so much precious, sought after information ...
Thx again, e-meet you another time on the forums. p

[pbetra]

After reading your posts, I can't help but feel that you are trying to control what he likes or doesn't like to do.
A.I'm sorry you feel that way - (am walking away)
Control? The only thing I am trying to control is:
- NOT ending this marriage prematurely (recent feeling)
- growing anger toward him
- GAL which will also protect me from not feeling so used.
maybe a medium/electronic like this in a additon does not always translate well ...

Just because you want him to experience the "real world" doesn't mean that he has to feel that way.
A: but he DOES feel that way!! Made CLEAR when the bomb was dropped -
"live my life because it didn't turn out as planned ... & on & on. wanted to experience what was out there" & made it clear he would do so WITHOUT me, unlike initial plans (all the fun plans that were made just before the bomb! I was 'pencilled out'). I was practically encouraged to have a affair - & I KNEW WHY. 2 hours of wants, desire to "travel, meet people, live my life" ... all during the raging anger at the infancy of the bomb's explosion - to its final end. Asked him at the end of the 'turmoil' if he needed to end relationship - he never answered. After a few months of 'night life-ing', he eventually ran out of his $$. That's all. Really quite simple Mr. Bond.
Wonka was right - the kitten has to GO (at some point) - he has to get it out of his system.

btw - H always said he didn't want a controlling W like his mother. He got me, an introvert & daughter of a controlling man.
My goals during his MLC are to get over my own fears, work on my self esteem. If I feel used and need the space to GAL, while he figures out whatever HE NEEDS TO, then so be it. I have given much with nothing to show. My community didn't like him for me ... but I was young, fearful, uncertain (STUPID!!) & liked his sense of adventure because I had none! For the first time in my life, I intend to be asssertive for me. That is one GREAT POSITIVE from this LBS experience.
He was insecure about the amount of attn. I got during the M - even nervous. I promised him (during a vacation when the men were hitting on me if he left even briefly) that I never would never betray him. For 15 years of M, I stuck to my word in spite of more attractive options (men w/ more money, job/education, REAL class/decency - did I mention I was STUPID? Won't be in future). I NEVER cheated just as I promised him. What a joke!! Look at me today - a tired, over middle aged, anxious all the time, nervous wreck. Used.

I have deleted the remainder of this post as that information is irrelevant re: confrontation or boundaries. will post
remainder /'other' later at mlc rut (http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...846#Post2460846).
I feel suddenly saddened.

Thank you though for taking the time to respond Mr. bond - it is appreciated, really.

[AJM]

A: I understand, right now I feel to let him go, do you thing - CHEAT! If that is what he needs to express MLC, then get it out. It's the callous using that occupies my foreground. It's affecting me & I am fighting to look past to see the whole picture. What is necessary now for good later. Maybe when he finds someone, I'll feel threatened(!!). But right now, I feel used - big time.

Yep, I get that. I felt more dis-ease at the lying than the cheating if I'm honest about it. The sheer anger has been discomforting as well.

Basically, it becomes a tiered system of hurts, if you will. The only remarkable thing is that I figured the cheating was going to be the big momma of 'em all.

I also get the feeling of being trapped between your child and his father's whackiness/meanness. Been there and done that with my ex. It was hard at first to understand how she could lie/cheat/walk away from us all and then turn around and blame me for her actions.

In hindsight, I don't know that it could have been done any other way. It kind of makes sense if you stop and think it through but only in hindsight.

It's crazy. It's hurtful. It's going to continue unless and until you are able to detach and change yourself. He's not going to for a very long time, if ever.

AJ

[Wonka]

MLCers are such celebrities around here!

Not me! And there's no pap stalking me trying to get "candid" pics of me.

Whew. Grateful for my anonymity.

[MrBond]

How old are you and your H? Were there any marriage issues when this came up? MLCs arise when there are any of 7 triggers to set it off. What was going on when all this happened?

Be honest and don't sugarcoat what may have been your role as well. It helps in the long run. I'm not sure if I missed it, but did you ever read DR or DB?

[pbetra]

MLCers are such celebrities around here!

Not me! And there's no pap stalking me trying to get "candid" pics of me.

Whew. Grateful for my anonymity.

you'll always be a celeb. to me Wonka!!!

[pbetra]

How old are you and your H? Were there any marriage issues when this came up? MLCs arise when there are any of 7 triggers to set it off. What was going on when all this happened?

Be honest and don't sugarcoat what may have been your role as well. It helps in the long run. I'm not sure if I missed it, but did you ever read DR or DB?

Hello again MrBond,
- both late 40/early 50's (over in the rut - more details)
- 7 triggers?
- Oh, I can be honest - I experience some uneasiness with www for reasons I suggested at 'the rut'... And the initial M issue is too personal to put on www. That impacted on me- which impacted on him. I spoke w/therapist at the time.
DBs- SOON! Looking forward to reading them!!!I can no longer use primary credit card - issue to be resolved in near future!
Thx again as always, p.

[Cadet]

Since I can not message you I will post on your thread instead

Thanks for the work that you did on the links, I transferred one of your posts to my thread

DB PURGE COMING

and I would prefer to discuss it there instead of hi-jacking the reconnection thread.

Thanks again.

[pbetra]

Sounds good to me!

So much more relevant. (been popping by very briefly (!) ... not up to date/ missing stuff. Finished your homework links, reading books now & 'responding to life, one sitch at a time')

Thank you Cadet!!!