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Pbetra,

Hiya! I am Wonka and am a former badass MLCer. Sorry to find you struggling mightily here.

Allow me to post a great summary from ForeverYoung on the differences between a simple WAS and a MLCer:

Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung
With a WAS: We are trying different things and seeing what "works".

With a MLC: Nothing we do is going to work until our spouse has made it through the tunnel.


That summarizes very nicely the action we take here when it comes to the MLCer...get the hell out of the runaway train that is coming bearing down right at ya!

Honey, confronting the MLCer is an exercise in futility. They need to explore outside in the field like a kitten and will come home as a mature cat. That applies to kitty kitten MLCers not those with awful Jekyll/Hyde MLCers who are truly lost waaaaay out there like Bea's.

Pbetra, your frustrations are compelling you to seek out the magic bullet against your MLCer. Sweetie, work on yourself and detaching from your H. That is the only WAY OUT you make it here.

You write:

> How does LBS confront MLCer to COMMUNICATE much needed boundaries?

For what reason are you looking here? What boundaries are you talking about here? Please be specific so you can get the proper assistance here.

there must be equivalent behaviours & methods for LBS to act on, when confronting someone who has emotionally separated the LBS, all while the LBS is trying (!!) to execute those very boundaries.

Yep. It's called detachment. You cannot control what the MLCer does or doesn't do. Detach from H and the sitch.

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After reading your posts, I can't help but feel that you are trying to control what he likes or doesn't like to do.

Just because you want him to experience the "real world" doesn't mean that he has to feel that way. Did you ever read the DB or DR books? It seems like you skipped all that.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Hi AJ,

Originally Posted By: AJM
Helpful information to be sure.

Curious, if you know that the solution isn't as involved regarding actionable steps, do you recommend being yourself and letting the chips fall where they fall? Or do you recommend something else?

A: That's right, specifically no solution re: confrontation methods that I have found so far - eg. going dark etc. if I had no child, the chips would have fallen by now & I would have taken it step by step.

From my experience, I would recommend a little different - Work on detaching from the outcome and the rest will follow. You'll have more confidence, you won't be surprised by or hurt by the outcome, and you won't be worried about what you say or do not say. Instead, you'll be authentically yourself.

A: Thank you, I think that this is key & still a wip. My child is the emotional driver & this may be interfering somehow. I am still trying to figure out how. It's only been a few months since experience & am learning as I go. Am looking forward to the day when I can feel that confidence. Right now - it's just not happening

That's not to say there aren't some things to learn. For example, arguing with a MLCr is akin to arguing with a teenager. May as well nail Jell-O to a tree. If you can. So if you know that, then calmly (see note on being detached and expectations) disarm the arguments. Try not to, but don't be afraid to, start arguments or attack a MLCr. Unless you've first mastered the art of nailing Jell-O to a tree. Then it may be safe to try.

A: This is sound advice for all newbies. Luckily, I have not argued - (maybe here LOL) ... maybe that is part of the frustration? His arguements have always been much bigger than mine anyway. Has history of 'outbursts' - job, public .. someone taking too long to unpack groceries etc easily aggravated. My heart palpitations/anxiety starts. I have been more of a question & wait person, so refraining from arguement is 'ok' for me (under evaluation re: one of my new goals). However, being quiet & observant has also proved beneficial (not just this but generally- vs volatile) I very rarely act in haste with anything.


You might also want to link MLC for dummies in your thread. It's a good, light-hearted bit of information worth noting when looking for a way to deal with boundaries.

A: Actually read it when I first came here - don't remember very much though, so will read again. I do remember that it was funny & light hearted, but it affected me. It was a strange experience - on one hand, there was the humor but running closely beside was a feeling of sadness. I may be able to handle better now -thx 4 reminder.

Finally, you may also want to mention that boundaries are for you. Pick them carefully as you'll be tested. But once you pick one, mean it. I mean, mean it like you're the person they modeled Band of Brothers after and you're defending the hill. Be willing to die on that hill for your boundary, else don't set it.

A: This is exactly WHY this query began. I felt lost re my capability to deal w/this area. However, I have gotten some feedback (including YOU!) and now feel that i have enough to think about - something to begin with.

As you work your way through this, you'll figure out exactly what you can and cannot live with. Chances are it won't be the things you thought going into it. I know for me, the cheating wasn't the biggest issue. That surprised me at first, but you really never know how you'll react until faced with something.

A: I understand, right now I feel to let him go, do you thing - CHEAT! If that is what he needs to express MLC, then get it out. It's the callous using that occupies my foreground. It's affecting me & I am fighting to look past to see the whole picture. What is necessary now for good later. Maybe when he finds someone, I'll feel threatened(!!). But right now, I feel used - big time.

Life. Always an adventure!

AJ


Thanks again for your helpful advice. p


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Originally Posted By: Wonka
Pbetra,
Allow me to post a great summary from ForeverYoung on the differences between a simple WAS and a MLCer:
Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung
With a WAS: We are trying different things and seeing what "works".
With a MLC: Nothing we do is going to work until our spouse has made it through the tunnel.

That summarizes very nicely the action we take here when it comes to the MLCer...get the hell out of the runaway train that is coming bearing down right at ya! [/i]
I agree w/ you Wonka - its the 'how' relative to my sitch, that I am working on

Honey, confronting the MLCer is an exercise in futility.
I realize this hence >>> What I found out:
> the solution isn't as involved as I assumed re actionable steps to take! b/cause ... there are not any specific solutions!! there are no identifible boundary-making solutions with so much irrational thinking and behaviour.

They need to explore outside in the field like a kitten and will come home as a mature cat. That applies to kitty kitten MLCers not those with awful Jekyll/Hyde MLCers who are truly lost waaaaay out there like Bea's.

Agree!! I think he needs to do this for himself- express his 'call to the street', his curiousity, or he will ALWAYS be miserable.

You write:
> How does LBS confront MLCer to COMMUNICATE much needed boundaries?
For what reason are you looking here? What boundaries are you talking about here? Please be specific so you can get the proper assistance here.

there must be equivalent behaviours & methods for LBS to act on, when confronting someone who has emotionally separated the LBS, all while the LBS is trying (!!) to execute those very boundaries.


A: Wonka, you will note that 'WAS' followed > My concern (was):
> How does LBS confront MLCer to COMMUNICATE much needed boundaries? Past tense.

I wrote a summary because I realized that the initial post didn't make sense. There is NO rational in all the chaos. I explained my reasoning when I first began thread, as I would be continuing my journalling experience where my initial 'bomb history' was first recorded.


Yep. It's called detachment. You cannot control what the MLCer does or doesn't do. Detach from H and the sitch.
A: You have me here Wonka, you've wonked me! Although detachING - still not detachED! So guilty!


Thanks for taking the time to reply - your post offered reassurance. Also, great meeting "a former badass MLCer". MLCers are such celebrities around here! grin They hold the key to so much precious, sought after information ...
Thx again, e-meet you another time on the forums. p


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
After reading your posts, I can't help but feel that you are trying to control what he likes or doesn't like to do.
A.I'm sorry you feel that way - (am walking away) laugh
Control? The only thing I am trying to control is:
- NOT ending this marriage prematurely (recent feeling)
- growing anger toward him
- GAL which will also protect me from not feeling so used.
maybe a medium/electronic like this in a additon does not always translate well ...


Just because you want him to experience the "real world" doesn't mean that he has to feel that way.
A: but he DOES feel that way!! Made CLEAR when the bomb was dropped -
"live my life because it didn't turn out as planned ... & on & on. wanted to experience what was out there" & made it clear he would do so WITHOUT me, unlike initial plans (all the fun plans that were made just before the bomb! I was 'pencilled out'). I was practically encouraged to have a affair - & I KNEW WHY. 2 hours of wants, desire to "travel, meet people, live my life" ... all during the raging anger at the infancy of the bomb's explosion - to its final end. Asked him at the end of the 'turmoil' if he needed to end relationship - he never answered. After a few months of 'night life-ing', he eventually ran out of his $$. That's all. Really quite simple Mr. Bond.
Wonka was right - the kitten has to GO (at some point) - he has to get it out of his system.

btw - H always said he didn't want a controlling W like his mother. He got me, an introvert & daughter of a controlling man.
My goals during his MLC are to get over my own fears, work on my self esteem. If I feel used and need the space to GAL, while he figures out whatever HE NEEDS TO, then so be it. I have given much with nothing to show. My community didn't like him for me ... but I was young, fearful, uncertain (STUPID!!) & liked his sense of adventure because I had none! For the first time in my life, I intend to be asssertive for me. That is one GREAT POSITIVE from this LBS experience.
He was insecure about the amount of attn. I got during the M - even nervous. I promised him (during a vacation when the men were hitting on me if he left even briefly) that I never would never betray him. For 15 years of M, I stuck to my word in spite of more attractive options (men w/ more money, job/education, REAL class/decency - did I mention I was STUPID? Won't be in future). I NEVER cheated just as I promised him. What a joke!! Look at me today - a tired, over middle aged, anxious all the time, nervous wreck. Used.

I have deleted the remainder of this post as that information is irrelevant re: confrontation or boundaries. will post
remainder /'other' later at mlc rut (http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...846#Post2460846).
I feel suddenly saddened.

Thank you though for taking the time to respond Mr. bond - it is appreciated, really.


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
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Quote:
A: I understand, right now I feel to let him go, do you thing - CHEAT! If that is what he needs to express MLC, then get it out. It's the callous using that occupies my foreground. It's affecting me & I am fighting to look past to see the whole picture. What is necessary now for good later. Maybe when he finds someone, I'll feel threatened(!!). But right now, I feel used - big time.
Yep, I get that. I felt more dis-ease at the lying than the cheating if I'm honest about it. The sheer anger has been discomforting as well.

Basically, it becomes a tiered system of hurts, if you will. The only remarkable thing is that I figured the cheating was going to be the big momma of 'em all.

I also get the feeling of being trapped between your child and his father's whackiness/meanness. Been there and done that with my ex. It was hard at first to understand how she could lie/cheat/walk away from us all and then turn around and blame me for her actions.

In hindsight, I don't know that it could have been done any other way. It kind of makes sense if you stop and think it through but only in hindsight.

It's crazy. It's hurtful. It's going to continue unless and until you are able to detach and change yourself. He's not going to for a very long time, if ever.

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Originally Posted By: pbetra
MLCers are such celebrities around here!


Not me! And there's no pap stalking me trying to get "candid" pics of me. grin

Whew. Grateful for my anonymity.

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How old are you and your H? Were there any marriage issues when this came up? MLCs arise when there are any of 7 triggers to set it off. What was going on when all this happened?

Be honest and don't sugarcoat what may have been your role as well. It helps in the long run. I'm not sure if I missed it, but did you ever read DR or DB?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 229
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Originally Posted By: Wonka
Originally Posted By: pbetra
MLCers are such celebrities around here!


Not me! And there's no pap stalking me trying to get "candid" pics of me. grin

Whew. Grateful for my anonymity.



you'll always be a celeb. to me Wonka!!!


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 229
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pbetra Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: MrBond
How old are you and your H? Were there any marriage issues when this came up? MLCs arise when there are any of 7 triggers to set it off. What was going on when all this happened?

Be honest and don't sugarcoat what may have been your role as well. It helps in the long run. I'm not sure if I missed it, but did you ever read DR or DB?



Hello again MrBond,
- both late 40/early 50's (over in the rut - more details)
- 7 triggers?
- Oh, I can be honest - I experience some uneasiness with www for reasons I suggested at 'the rut'... And the initial M issue is too personal to put on www. That impacted on me- which impacted on him. I spoke w/therapist at the time.
DBs- SOON! Looking forward to reading them!!!I can no longer use primary credit card - issue to be resolved in near future!
Thx again as always, p.


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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