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Didn't notice my thread was locked, been so busy......so thanks to Wonka for asking for Sandi's input and perspective

Here's the links to my previous threads:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2435361#Post2435361

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2447819#Post2447819

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2458498#Post2458498

So it's been a bit confusing, especially with how to act. I'm acting upbeat and always very positive, and trying to avoid making "mistakes" while at the same time standing up for myself. I've checked my intel. Seems communication has dropped but I can't say totally, and my W has no interest in R with me now. She seems to have cooled on the L right now. But time will tell.

Sandi, I'd love your input with respect to what Wonka was asking at the end of my last thread. Any advice would be welcome from your prospective. Thanks so much.

Back at it, can't believe it's my fourth chapter.

Who woulda thunk it?

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Dev,

Stay steady and remain low-level blimp on the radar. Seems that the slingshot you've fired at W had an effect...somewhat. We'll find out eventually.

Sandi,

Here are the questions carried over from the previous thread.

Sandi,

From your perspective and experience as a former WAW with EXOM, what would you advise Dev to do and NOT to do in the next coming few weeks? What were some of the things that you think would work better?

What made you take the step to really finally end things with your XOM? What was your mindset like during that particular time? What were some of the critical things that your H did that aided in the process (or did not do)?

I think having your insight would be very, very helpful to Dev as it seems that his W is on the cusp of ending her A with the OM.

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Thanks Wonka,

I meant to port those over, but I forgot. Makes life a lot easier. Laying low and low on the radar level is exactly what I'm doing. It's my D birthday today, and I'm taking the kids out for dinner, W asked if she could come. I said if she would like, because I think it's nice for my D. I think that's fine. I don't want a special day for my D affected by her parent's problems. Hope that wasn't the wrong call?


Cheers

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Dev, hang in there, you are doing amazing.

I think in my case H has been ending, or trying to end the R with OW for quite a while. It's a tough process, especially for the LBS! H and I are reconnecting quite a bit now but it's been 4 months since D-day and when he supposedly ended it with OW (I suspect things may have continued on some level since D-day but slowly declining). He is SO uncertain about me, which is also tough, but I'm trying to stick to working on ME and being the wife that he would be a fool to leave. At the very least I know I will have done everything I could to save things and ultimately, I will be a super fantastic significant other to *someone*.

Stay the course, you are awesome at this DBing thing, you can do it!


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
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Hey mdu,

Thanks for dropping in! I'm pulling for you to continue to succeed. It's nice to watch others at that stage. Yes, it's very difficult for sure. My W had the kids last night, and she asked me to come in and chat with her, but I demurred, as I had some GAL that I had to do. Took everything I had to not change my plans

Apparently it was a rough night, and then this AM was even worse. Typically I call to say goodnight and good morning to the kids. She's finding this irritating.

She texted me this AM to let me know she has decided to keep the OM in her life, but she's not sure in what capacity. I haven't responded yet, because I had an appointment with IC. I don't control what she does and what she chooses anyways. Then, she was late for drop off and broke down, calling the kids "wretched and despicable". I can't handle hearing that. Who does that in front of their own kids?

And then it hit me. Someone in a very bad place, hurting, feeling horrible about their own abilities and parenting abilities. We all have bad days, but anytime she has the kids, it's like this. This is the place my W is in right now. She needs to get better, whether that is with me or without me.

I didn't get mad or upset about her freaking out and changing the times etc. She apologized a bit later, saying sorry by text, and then saying she was at her tipping point. I acknowledged that must feel horrible, and offered to take the kids. And that was that.

I need to address the OM continued contact. But I truly feel that it is diminishing anyways. However, we will be marching down one pathway with me being the best father, and person I can be. Whether at some point that means spouse as well, will have to be determined.

I truly need to keep the focus on me. Two things I am confused about though. Why did she tell me she's keeping the OM in her life, is she testing me? And the other is I truly think she needs help with the kids. I hope she realizes this herself. I keep fighting the urge to protect my kids and not rescue her. It's a tough battle.

Cheers,

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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I'm not so sure that you need to address the OM continued contact. You already did, right? In the letter you said that as long as he's in the picture you won't be friends with her.

I think it's always right to do whatever is in the best interests of the kids, I would offer help with them but don't know if that aligns with DBing principles or not.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
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I agree mdu,

That's what confused me a little bit. Was she telling me because she was conflicted, wanted to see how much she could cake eat? I know it's all mind reading, but I am curious.

With respect to the kids, I offered and she accepted, and I'm fine with that. I agree, best interest of the kids. Perhaps I rescued her, but they are already dealing with enough.


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Dev,

Why did she tell me she's keeping the OM in her life, is she testing me?

As hard as it is (especially for a "rescuer"), something I've REALLY been learning lately - through my own life and listening to some friends who are in tough times with their partners - is that it's best sometimes just to hear EXACTLY what they're saying. And don't read anymore into it at all.

She told you she's keeping the OM in her life because, frankly, she's decided to keep the OM in her life (in *some* capacity) for now. Nothing else matters for YOU - and your previously-stated boundaries - except that.

And I agree with mdu: you've already handled the continued-contact-with-OM issue. Boundaries, as Starsky says, are *weakened* if/when they're repeated. No need to "handle" anything in regard to OM right now.

You just keep plugging away and doing what you've been doing. While you may not be seeing the improvements you are hoping for in your relationship, I honestly believe your W now knows you're not a doormat and you are standing for your family.

Think of how stable that looks to her right now. Is it any wonder she's out there, twisting and miserable? Her life is a disaster right now. But she looks at you, and you're stable. And consistent. You're leading your family. THAT is awfully attractive, especially if/when your W sits back and looks at what a disaster she has created in her own life.

I am very sorry to hear what she said about your kids in front of them. I cannot imagine how difficult that was for any of you to hear. But I *can* imagine how difficult it is to watch a spouse turn into an alien and turn his/her back on the children. It absolutely defies logic. Makes no sense at all for a person to turn like that. But it's just where they are. We can have compassion, but we have to continue to protect our kids and assure them they're loved through and through.

Your love, consistency, stability and leadership is the absolute best thing you can give your kids right now.

You're doing great.

Keep standing firm. You da man.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
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Thanks Train,

Very true, take it for what it is. One of the things I'm also working on is staying present in the moment, rather than going backwards to the past, or forwards to the future.

I'm working on that, but it's challenging. But all of this is challenging, so really, what's the big deal? smile


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Yes, indeed. Living in the present is one of the hardest-learned - yet most useful - tools you can have.

Good on you, bro.

Last edited by Train; 07/09/14 01:58 AM.

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Sounds like you're keeping strong. Way to go.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
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Okay,

So some interesting developments, but just trying to stay present.

After the debacle on Tuesday where my W went ballistic on the kids, she took some time for herself. Late yesterday, she started texting me, even a bit on Tuesday night. She was almost making conversation. I was brief and polite, but it took everything I had to end the conversation. Mostly about the kids. And some struggles she was having with some set up at her apt.

Next day, she again initiated contact, and actually asked if the kids could speak with her. She then sent pictures etc, and tried to converse via text. I again was not cold, but confident with a PMA. There has been a definite change in her behavior. And her interactions with OM. Although the extent of what is going on I don't know.

Then today. We had a FT appt, and W started texting me before and asked if I wanted to go out for coffee or lunch after the FT appt. I responded casually sure, let's see how it goes. FT was fine, when asked about lawyer, W was sort of "oh yeah, I forgot about that". We did go for a quick casual lunch after the FT, and it went well. W wished me a Happy Anniversary, which I found ironic, and then asked if it was possible to maybe come on the family vacation I have planned in two weeks. She said she is scared it wouldn't be a positive experience, but she is interested in meeting for some of it.

So I'm a bit confused, trying to stay present, but she has thrown me for a loop. She knows my stand with respect to OM, and while no mention has been made of a R between the two of us, her demeanour has changed. She wants to get together to talk about the upcoming trip and some "other things"

I'm nervous and not sure what to do. I know not to focus on the future, and stay present in the moment, but I don't want to make any mistakes (although isn't that how you learn smile )

Any thoughts?

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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I would meet her to hear what she has to say.

But I think you have to stay firm to your 'no friendship' unless she's done with OM, so I'd say no joining the trip unless it's really done.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
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Dev, I sent a very long post yesterday, but I don't see it anywhere. I was trying to reply to the questions Wonka asked and also your request. My stitch was very different in that my H did not have the tools LBH'S receive here. As far as I know, he never tried to get any. It was also different in that I, the WAW in an A, was the one who reached out for help on this board. If I had not received the information and guidance I did, I don't know what kind of mess our lives would be in now.

I had no desire to work on my M, nor any positive feelings for my H. I made the decision to end the A and stay with my H simply b/c it was the right thing to do. I went through months and months of withdrawal and grieving the OM/A. I had a lot of health issues I was dealing with at the time, which added stress to our stitch. My H would not agree to see a MC, so my therapy was coming here every single night until I couldn't keep my eyes open. It was two years before I could begin to feel different toward my H. I don't usually tell that to posters b/c it is so discouraging for them to hear. And when I say feeling different, I mean not being so bitter with resentment toward him, and learning to respect him and trying to find some middle ground where I could stand to live with him.

The one thing he did do that was critical, he backed off. He stopped pressuring me. And even though he didn't know what a transparency plan was.....I did. So I took the lead there and kept my computer activity, etc., very open. I know he checked, but it was okay b/c I no longer had anything to hide. When there is nothing to hide, a spouse should not be defensive and want their privacy from the other spouse.

He was very patient, b/c that's his way. If it had been the other way around, I doubt I would have been as kind. But it took a hard toll on him, and his health took a big hit. He has steadily gone down ever since.

I am suspicious anytime a W suddenly leaves her affair partner and gets real cozy with the H. B/c I don't think it's that easy or simple. She has to have time to get through the withdrawal and deal with her issues. I know I was a mess for a long time, and I think your W has more problems than I had! I have a hard time believing any woman can jump out of one man's arms and into the other's arms.......and be authentic in her feelings.

Just b/c an A ends is not an automatic reconciliation for the M. Now some women do return to the H out of a need of financial security or to claim her position in the home again, for the kids sake, or other reasons. But I highly recommend that couple have ground rules in place and both agreed upon it before any such move is considered. And, I think it is critical to find an excellent MC or FT to help restore the MR. I don't believe the average couple can successfully get back to the place they need or want to be without professional help. The couple is suffering from battle fatigue and dealing with a lot of wounds. They are too fragile to handle it alone and expect success.

So, back to your W. She seems to have made it rather plain where she stands regarding a R with you. But I think you are confused about her warming up and being nicer? Unless I missed something, that's all I see that has changed. Here's my take on it......don't be suckered into anything just b/c you are seeing a shift in her attitude, personality, or manners. It is like a menu......subject to change at any time.

One reason alone I would be suspicious is her wanting to go on the family vacation. But she is quick to tell you not to get excited b/c it doesn't mean anything for the two of you (not her exact words, but same meaning). But here is the thinking of a WAW. She doesn't want to be your "wife" but she wants the benifits. To me, it's old school stuff for girls. Act nice, kiss up a little, and get him eating out of your hand. Then get what you want, and afterwards, drop him again and go do your own thing. Cold hearted? You betcha! Any middle school girl knows how. Yet, it is still the number one thing that makes LBH'S stumble all over the place and buys it every time.

Please be very careful. You just told her you would not be her friend, and what does she do? Proving you wrong! Proceed with extreme caution. Continue to act indifferent. Don't be an a$$, but show a polite tolerance & indifference. Sit back and just watch to see where she goes with it.

And the vacation deal? You will have to decide about it. I just hope you don't get set up for a let down. WAW's are famous for it.

I do have questions about you both going to this FT. What is goal? Is it for both of you, or just her? Is it to lean how to co-parent, or reconciling?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Hey Sandi,

Thanks for stopping by and your insight. It's helpful, and of course interesting!

First off, the FT is for coparenting, not reconciliation. She was doing some IC, but I believe she has stopped. I would love her to continue, but she needs to do that on her own will. She is concerned about finances, and doesn't really want to spend the money.

With respect to how I am acting, I am acting cordial and courteous for the kids, but that is it. Trying to be the pleasant neighbour who doesn't care what she is doing. I have responded to texts regarding the kids in a timely fashion, and resisted when she has provided more. This is very hard.

I agree with you Sandi, I just told her how our relationship would be if the OM is still in her life, and after she flipped out, she told me he would be in some capacity, and then she changes her behavior. I need to be consistent. It's a battle, as I want to show the man I have become, and part of that is showing my strength at maintaining my boundaries. My improved communication skills, my internal reflection, and my ability to actively listen are also other attributes I know would help a new R, but that's not happening right now. I'm not going to expect anything, continue to be extremely cautious, and really keep moving forward. Not rushing into a D is better for me anyways. If she is conflicted, which I doubt she is, she's going to have to work that out herself.

Mind reading here Sandi, but I think she is pretty similar to you where you were at when you said you had no interest in M. However, the difference is you felt staying M was the right thing to do. My W does not feel that way, and I think she is very scared that nothing would be different if she came back, and also that she would never be forgiven. I haven't addressed that again, as early on I said I could move past that, and forgive. It just hasn't had to come up.

I will meet with her to hear what she has to say, but going from there, I don't plan on having her be a part of our vacation unless the OM is out of the picture completely. I don't see that happening. It's a cautionary time for sure.

Thanks for all your advice,

Cheers

Devaste


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Dev,

You're getting tons of helpful insights and advice from Sandi. Wow.

Originally Posted By: Dev
I don't plan on having her be a part of our vacation unless the OM is out of the picture completely. I don't see that happening. It's a cautionary time for sure.


Can you stand by this stance? Trust me, W will try to use her feminine wiles on you to get you to cave in and allowing her to join on the family trip.

What are you gonna say to her if this happens? Be on the ready for that knuckleball.

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Hey Wonka

I'm prepared for that knuckleball should that occur. I think I will say that at this time, given our current situation, I don't see it being a benefit to our children or the two of us to go on vacation together. It will confuse the kids, and I think it will confuse the two of us. Moving forward with our separate lives, it's imperative that we establish our own independence. Not sure, but that's what I'm thinking?

The letter has definitely had an effect. Now I'm just being patient and waiting. All my intelligence leads me to believe communication has really dried up. My windows show nothing, although I assume contact is still occurring. To be honest, I really don't want her on this trip, which is probably what I should really just say. I don't think it's a good idea right now, given our current situation.

Thanks again for your help Wonka. The adventure continues.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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A nice way would be to frame the trip as a boys only trip! Bonding over warpaint, farting, belching...what not! grin

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Except that wouldn't be as much fun for my daughter of course wink


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Whooops! I was speed-reading when I scanned the info below your signature and all I saw was "S" all the way.

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Okay, I'm being blamed in a text barrage by my W right now for all kinds of ridiculous things. She's ranting because the kids are misbehaving after she let them watch tv for hours today. I'm not going to argue, because it's pointless, but it's ridiculous to see what I'm being blamed for right now. Not going to respond......


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Don the jacket.

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Stay strong, don't get sucked in!


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
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Thanks guys, I put it on and didn't get sucked in. Amazing what happens sometimes......


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Is she keeping the kids alone at her place now?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Hey Sandi,

Yes, she keeps the kids at her place 2 times a week. For the most part they are with me. It still scares me, and kids need their mom. Tough spot.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Quote:
I think she is very scared that nothing would be different if she came back

My W says that all the time: "I don't trust you that you won't slip back into your old patterns if I come back. I don't want to waste another 10 years of my life..." There's no arguing, convincing, or reasoning that can counter that one. The only thing is honest talk about how I see my patterns of behaviour that lead to the degradation of our marriage and that by having finally identified them that I can consciously avoid them, which I've done with some success on two occasions in the past week or so. But for the most part I think just maintaining the new consciousness and continuing self-improvement is the only way to show consistency of my changes and growth. And continuing with the detachment.
Dev, I think you are doing really well. Yes, I'd be careful about her joining you on vacation. I would think that unless she makes a firm commitment to start reconciliation, with the confirmation that the A is over forever and the OM is out of her life completely, then it's best for her not to come along. Even if she made that commitment it may even be too early to plunge into a family vacation together. She would still be having withdrawals.
Nonetheless, I know I would have a hard time resisting the opportunity. It would take a lot of will power. Listen to Sandi.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
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Dev,

How's it going, buddy? How are you doing lately?

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Hey Wonka,

Thanks for checking in. It's been a busy weekend with kids activities, and it's been interesting to say the least. The barrage of last Friday when my W was spewing all kinds of venom passed. I have not pursued in any way, and she seems to be texting more, and really warming up around me. She had the kids both Friday and Saturday evenings, as I was out GAL. Both days there was a bit of family time where we were all at my S8's tournament.

So my W also said when I picked up kids Saturday morning, love you guys. I know it was probably directed at the kids, or just said out of habit. But it did affect me a little bit. I've been doing my best to keep a real even keel. Complete PMA, which is actually getting easier because in some ways I am happy.

My W suggested getting together for lunch or some exercise on Thursday. I'm not sure what she is planning on discussing, but I'm going to let her lead, before I show any of my cards at all. With respect to A, I'm not sure what's going on. No communication through the windows I have, but I'm sure it's going on. It's just really changed. I feel it. My W is laughing at some jokes and comments I have made. I'm not going to get ahead of myself in any way. But it feels positive.

My big challenge is still to determine what is going on with the OM. I won't be going on this trip vacation with her. I could use the help, but I think the time away is good for both of us. Two weeks apart will neither destroy or create a M or R. Tempting as it is, I don't want to be used.

I'm proud of the even keel I'm keeping and the direction that everything is going seems very positive in several ways. Time will tell. Patience, patience, patience....

Cheers,

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Well,

It looks like she is once again planning time away. Not sure if with OM or not. She texted me to meet tomorrow night or Thursday AM. I have asked her for an agenda of what we will be discussing. She has said some "not fun things are being discussed frown ". Which I assume is another nail in the coffin. Hope she sends that agenda so I may prepare myself. A bit nervous and anxious now.

Did a ton of exercise this AM, and that really helps. Will have to burn some more energy off tonight. Fun times. So much for my even keel wink

Dev


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Dev,

You just don't know what W is talking about until she brings up whatever isn't "fun to discuss." Assuming it might be about the OM, just be prepared to re-state your stance about not being a willing participant in a marriage with the third party.

As you well know by now, it isn't always another nail the coffin.

Be sure to get the times so you can make GAL plans. This will tell W that she has a short-time frame and work within that parameter. In a way, it will protect you from having hours-long discussion by going in circles.

If W wants time away, so be it. Just make sure she doesn't take away your vacation time with the kiddos. It is YOUR time with them!

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when I was first going through everything, I would let my bff in on what was happening. She was the only one I told the nitty gritty to.

When I had to go meet ex for whatever reason, we decided on a call time. She would call...the phone would ring...I could answer or let it go to voicemail.

After 30 mins, she would call again.

It always made me feel good to know I had someone in my corner and it gave me an easy out if I wanted one. All I had to do was answer my phone and she would ask...do you need to go...and I would answer yes or know and could then, honestly say...BFF called and I need to go.

if not, it went to voicemail and she would leave me an encouraging message

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Thanks Wonka and Figgeroni,

I like the escape strategy if required, and I know I shouldn't assume anything going in. Hopefully the agenda provides some information for me.

I know there are no nails so to speak, however, sometimes, I try to mind read and guess what is going on. Never a good idea. I'm nervous because I feel the dynamic has changed so much. When we are in the same place, I don't feel so much resentment etc from her. Anyways, we will see tomorrow night.

And no matter what, that vacation is mine and mine alone with my kids. She can take all the down time she needs during those two weeks.

Until tomorrow night......

Dev


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Thinking of you today, Dev. Sending positive juju your way! smile


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Thanks Train,

Just spoke briefly with my W to see if meeting was still on, and see if she had the agenda ready for me. Yes, we are meeting, but she hasn't got around to the agenda yet. No real surprise at all. I'm
Not going to rush it, but I won't meet unless she has sent me an agenda. I'd rather not have any surprises. did see the first bit of communication this AM between her and OM. Only one way from her.......as far as I can tell.


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I won't meet unless she has sent me an agenda. I'd rather not have any surprises.

Smart man. smile


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Thinking of you, Dev. Boy, this is tough...isn't it?

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Thanks Wonka,

Still no agenda. Part of me doesn't think it will happen. Time will tell. It's very tough, but after what I've been through already this year, should be a walk in the park wink

Dev


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Send some of your strength my way please, Dev! As always, wishing you all the best.


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Thanks everyone for the support,

So here goes. Well, I got an agenda just before she showed up. A verbal one. On the menu was really a discussion of moving forward with a more formalized S, with custody and finances organized. W is tired of feeling in limbo. Welcome to my world. We didn't get into the nitty gritty because we also spoke about the letter that I sent her and the one she sent me, as well a brief mention about the OM. Here are the highlights, of course this is what I heard, and hopefully my improved listening skills are catching more.

-my W has tried to stop with the OM, but has been unable to (this was the extent of the conversation) She feels her inability to stop indicates the right decision for her. I didn't argue this in any way. Just STFU even though inside I wanted to explode smile

-I acknowledged my part in the demise of our R, and explained the OM does not matter to me, except moving forward the OM affects our chances to R

-my W hasn't seen how anything would be different over the last 6 months to make her change her mind. She is scared things would be the same. There is still tension between us. She is very scared. I'm not sure how I can change this. Maybe a formalized S agreement will give her the space and reduce tension over scheduling.

-my W thinks that we need to have a friendship before any talk of a R, and this is where I get stuck, because I have stated we will not be friends if there is an OM involved. I reiterated this again, after she questioned me.

-my W is worried she would live under a microscope and doesn't think I would ever forgive her. I told her that it would take time, we would have a different relationship, and trust would need to re-established.

-my W was under the impression that she would move right back in if we R, and I reiterated that that was not an option, she would keep her own place and we would have to start over, dating etc

-we agreed to meet more frequently and get the S details sorted out. Finances and custody. W is now aware that she needs the kids to have financial stability, so her attitude has changed. She told me this. She wants them more. I told her I'm concerned about their health and hers.

-the main stumbling block is how awful she feels around me. She feels terrible about herself around me, and her despair, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts develop. She feels we bring out the worst in each other. She doesn't want to be irritable and angry

-she stated she loves her kids, but wishes she never had them frown

So in summary, really, she is still with the OM. She told me it's a nothing relationship, but he is now her best friend. Bottom line nothing has changed. I feel so frustrated that she feels that she has been testing our relationship possibilities over the last few months while I've been in safety guarding mode. I know everyone has told me this, but really while she is with an OM, it's difficult to be the spouse only a fool would leave, especially trying to do LRT

Going forward, the S will allow her more space, financial implications will occur, and then I guess we will see what happens. I'd like to delay if possible. But she needs space.

I'm really in a sad space, because I miss my W as a friend, and I realize that I am truly losing her now. I'll pick my head up in a bit. Just a reality check. The optimist that I am, I listen when she says things like I'm not ready right now, and I'm scared and think there is still opportunity. Is that bad? I need to rethink some goals, and carry on.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Cheers

Dev


Me: 40
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Wow, that sounds exactly like my W. She's actually said some of those same things. I look forward to advice from the vets, especially the friendship before R part smile



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Dev,

My heart is heavy for you and Mrs. Dev. That had to be very hard for both of you. Clearly she is very conflicted and struggling. As long as the OM is in the picture, there isn't any chance to even contemplate on reconciling.

I think there were several important takeaways from this discussion. Mainly that the W is unable to break away from the OM and possibly refusing to do so. I find it interesting that W perceives this inability as being the right choice. That is very, very flawed thinking on her part. It is all based on warped emotions.

-my W hasn't seen how anything would be different over the last 6 months to make her change her mind. She is scared things would be the same.

I am curious. Has W noticed and/or commented on any of the 180's you've done? I would hope you've made changes to your own patterns, issues, and habits that are not conductive to a healthy M.

-my W thinks that we need to have a friendship before any talk of a R, and this is where I get stuck, because I have stated we will not be friends if there is an OM involved. I reiterated this again, after she questioned me.

It is clear that she's wanting to hold on you as a part of her cake-eating binge. Not good. I am glad that you reiterated that you will not be a part of a third party marriage. Good job!

-my W was under the impression that she would move right back in if we R, and I reiterated that that was not an option, she would keep her own place and we would have to start over, dating etc.


Nicely done!

-we agreed to meet more frequently and get the S details sorted out. Finances and custody. W is now aware that she needs the kids to have financial stability, so her attitude has changed. She told me this. She wants them more. I told her I'm concerned about their health and hers.

Why is this a concern for you if W wants to have the kids more often? Is there something here that we're missing here?

-the main stumbling block is how awful she feels around me. She feels terrible about herself around me, and her despair, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts develop. She feels we bring out the worst in each other. She doesn't want to be irritable and angry

It is all on her. As you probably know, it is just a matter of perspective and perception. She is involved with the OM right now so her views are very skewed right now.

I hope you've heard some of her main complaints about you and made some 180s that you can live with permanently. For if there's ever a divorce, you'll be a better man and partner for someone else. Preferably for W, right.

-she stated she loves her kids, but wishes she never had them frown

This says it all right there. W is really messed up in her head.

Going forward, the S will allow her more space, financial implications will occur, and then I guess we will see what happens. I'd like to delay if possible. But she needs space.

Yep. It is a part of the process.

What I highly suggest for you to do going forward starting now, is to do the following:

-get a L to represent you pronto
-have your L communicate with W and ask if she has any legal representation
-have all financial, separation, legal discussions handled through L
-do not meet with W over separation or any other legal matters
-GO PITCH BLACK DARK with zero communications with W
-only email/text W about logistics with children (school, dr. visits, etc.
-if W attempts to reach out to talk about you stuff that are not related to kids, then don't respond and direct all legal matters to L and instruct him/her to inform W that she is not to speak or discuss legal matters with you


If W gets angry, simply ask her "Are you still with the OM? You remember the boundary about not being friends as long as you are still involved with OM."

Stick to your guns on this one. I know that all of this look scary and may think that it will fail. Nope. I believe it will have the necessary effect on W to jolt her into realization that she has a stark choice in front of her:

Continuing with the OM or lose her H & family.

I am sure other posters will chime in with their experiences and thoughts.

Hang in there.....we're your Dev Posse!! smile

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Dev,

Saw this post from you in Zew's thread:

Originally Posted By: Dev
I asked my W today if she planned on paying back the money she took from the kids education funds. She looked at me with defiance, and said yes, but it was kind of unfair that she had to pay for her own expenses since January (all her expenses were covered, that money was used and is used to fund her A activities)


I am going to ask Starsky to swing by here and detail how he handled that particular problem with the fetching Mrs. Starsky when she had her A with the XOM. Very enlightening!

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Originally Posted By: Wonka

-my W was under the impression that she would move right back in if we R, and I reiterated that that was not an option, she would keep her own place and we would have to start over, dating etc.


Nicely done!

Wonka, how does this part work while ensuring OM is not in the picture? Ideally should W agree to full transparency while living apart? I suppose if W gave the 'I'll do whatever it takes speech' you'd have a little more trust in her actions, but when W mentioned this to me, my first thought went to her having OM over to her place. Of course in my case W and I are not working on R.



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Thanks Wonka,

Thanks for the support.

With respect to your comments, she has noticed the 180s for sure, I'm much more involved with the kids activities, I have quit some activities, and my relationship with the kids has never been better. I have also learned to not argue feelings, and have realized I used to try to control situations to minimize hurt to myself. She has noticed the difference, but because she has the feelings of despair and anxiety around me, she is very cautious. As a side note, she told me she has no interest in "crawling into bed" with me, to which I concurred. She feels the decision is obvious based on her inability to get rid of the OM. It drives me nuts, because I have tried to protect myself with respect to the OM. Maybe I should have acted as if I didn't care, but to me, to not stand up for myself after the OM was discovered would have been even worse.

I will begin to implement the plans, and I meet with my L next week. And perhaps my main goal now is to continue with 180s. Of course, with no communication, it's going to be hard to show her my changes, ah yes, the age old dilemma of the Last LRT'er

Thanks again for all the support. I'll post again once work is done.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Also realized I forgot to address the issue with her health and the kids health.

My W has told me repeatedly that she "loses her mind " when she has the kids on her own, and I worry about what may happen if they are alone for extended periods of time. In fact, the majority of our tension happens around her scheduling with the OM I.e trying to get her time away and then feeling guilty (mind reading sorry). And when she has the kids on her own, without the nanny and she is overwhelmed and then turns on me irritated and furious.

She often lashes out at the kids verbally. I have all my text conversations on file. The only reason she wants increased custody is for the money. If they are with me, she would have to pay me support, and she can't afford to. They need their mom, and they need their mom to want to be with them.

But I can't control that.

Dev


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Dev,

I'm sorry the conversation had some low points for you. What a blow that must feel like!

But I don't think this is a death-sentence for your M at all.

In fact, I second Wonka's suggestion to move forward firmly and with resolve. Your W asked for something. Give it to her. But this is the beginning of you really putting your money where your mouth is on those boundaries.

I think your wife has some demons that she needs to work through on her own.

Back out, and let go in love.

As HS repeatedly told me, let the OP be there to meet alllllllll your W's needs. Let's see how long he remains her BFF when she turns her frustrations and lashings-out on HIM because ol' Dev got wise and went underground. With your W's current state of mind, she HAS to lash out at someone. Question, though: are you at all concerned that, in her current mindset and especially after the things she's said about your kids, she'd start lashing out at THEM if you weren't there to absorb it?

Definitely know - though it doesn't help - that this is not the woman you married. And she's telling you (though she likely doesn't realize it) that she's really, really messed up in the head right now. Typical WAS. But your W is actually being very vocal about it instead of completely shutting down toward you.

I think she is very confused and torn. She's essentially telling you that.

Now is the time for that crazy, hardcore, counterintuitive stuff. It's not going to feel "right" - and certainly not easy - but giving her the space she's asked for is going to be best for both of you right now. And it will give her time to think while not having ANY reason to continue to direct her anger toward you.

Have you read "His Needs Her Needs"? HS suggested it to me, and it has been invaluable. One thing (if I remember correctly) it mentions is that going dark allows you to step back after you've given your W some warm memories of you. If she has noticed your 180s and your new-found patience, leave her with that memory for a while. By staying in her life and being her whipping post - and perhaps your reacting to that in a way that isn't pleasing to her - you continue taking a chance on making withdrawals from her "Love Bank." Going dark, in other words, leaves her with a good, positive picture of you. Your "account" in her Love Bank will hold steady while you're dark.

Proudly coining myself a member of Dev's Posse tonight.

You impress me every day, Dev. Stand tall.


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Wonka,

Just musing as I'm working with my patients here, I'm pretty sure my W will accuse me of being controlling and manipulative with respect to my boundary, of no friendship if she is involved with the OM. Any tips on how to discuss this if it comes up? Or maybe just not discuss until the OM is gone? In her mind the OM is a non-factor. She even stated that to blame the OM puts too much weight on that R. By saying I didn't care about the OM, and I saw and recognized the issues we had prior to the A, I tried to show her I realize the OM is a symptom of a R that had lost it's way.

She doesn't feel she's having an affair because we are seperated right now. That justifies it in her mind. But I also know she is sick about other people referring to her A, she is very embarrassed, and hates the fact this is happening.

Anyways, I'm rambling. Sorry for the multiple posts everyone. Long day today.

Cheers,

Dev


Me: 40
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M: 10. T: 18
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Dev, you handled the meeting well.
Quote:
She told me it's a nothing relationship, but he is now her best friend.

If she's being honest here, then that's a good thing. It means the A is starting to feel the strain of the sitch. It's going down in flames soon. She will have a hard time of it when it does. But don't expect her to come running back to you when it's over with OM. She'll still have a ton of guilt and feelings of loss of the A. It's natural.

Yes, the best thing you can do is not talk to her about your R until the OM is completely out of the picture forever. If she starts to talk about the R then ask her if the OM is out of the picture and the A is over. If it isn't then just tell her well then there's nothing to talk about and walk away.
This is advice from Sandi. It worked with me. But still my W is not running back into my arms. She's still conflicted. Still angry at me. And stuck with that anger and fine with being stuck. She says it's part of the process. I just give her time.

Even going dark is good for your sitch right now. I agree with Wonka. You said it all in your letter. Now you just have to stick to your word. Keep strong my friend.


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Wonka, Train and Peter,

Appreciate all of your input so much. I'm honoured your all part of the Dev Posse. Thanks for your kind words Train. I feel the support from everyone and I needed it today. I feel so lucky to have everyone on the boards who contributes, and even those that just read.

Going to settle down, process, regroup, and implement. That's my plan.

Thanks again, couldn't do this without all of you smile

Yours in DB,

Dev


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Originally Posted By: Tarheel
Originally Posted By: Wonka

-my W was under the impression that she would move right back in if we R, and I reiterated that that was not an option, she would keep her own place and we would have to start over, dating etc.


Nicely done!

Wonka, how does this part work while ensuring OM is not in the picture? Ideally should W agree to full transparency while living apart? I suppose if W gave the 'I'll do whatever it takes speech' you'd have a little more trust in her actions, but when W mentioned this to me, my first thought went to her having OM over to her place. Of course in my case W and I are not working on R.


Tarheel,

The key meaning behind the R above is reconciliation. Not relationship. A bit different right there.

There can be no full transparency while W is actively involved with OM. Full transparency occurs only when there's a break-up with the OM/OW and wanting to work on the M. Then the LBS pulls out the transparency plan to the WAS.

Hope this makes sense.

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Dev,

Good morning! smile

Originally Posted By: Devaste
I'm pretty sure my W will accuse me of being controlling and manipulative with respect to my boundary, of no friendship if she is involved with the OM. Any tips on how to discuss this if it comes up? Or maybe just not discuss until the OM is gone?


She will. Put up your hand and say, "I am sorry you feel that way. I am doing this to protect myself and our family. What you're doing with the OM is incredibly disrespectful to me and our family."

In her mind the OM is a non-factor. She even stated that to blame the OM puts too much weight on that R.

She's trying to play the shell game with you. Trying to divert your attention away from the seriousness of her affair with the OM by minimizing it. Silly woman! crazy

She doesn't feel she's having an affair because we are seperated right now. That justifies it in her mind. But I also know she is sick about other people referring to her A, she is very embarrassed, and hates the fact this is happening.

That skewed rationalization of the affair is pretty much par for the course in the WAS thought process. They should be embarrassed for parading the OM/OW around town!

Chin up, Dev. You got this, buddy!!

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Originally Posted By: PeterV2

If she's being honest here . . . ,



. . . then it would be the first time that someone in an affair was honest!


All cheaters lie -- PERIOD.


I haven't really followed Dev's sitch that closely, and so I'm not aware of what good intel he has that would indicate that his wayward wife was being untruthful. In my case, I knew every day -- FOR A FACT -- and so when my wife would say something like "Oh we're just friends," or "It's NOT an affair!" I would put my hand up and say "PLEASE STOP IT. We both know you're lying to me right now, and it's incredibly disrespectful not only to me and to our marriage, but to our family."

And I would leave the room.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Ahh, we cross-posted, Wonka! laugh We're both saying the same thing here.


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Starsky,

Please go back to page 5 of this thread where you'll see my comment to you and share your experience here.

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Hey Dev,

My W told me the same thing about two weeks ago.

She said, It doesn't matter if I have sex with a cow, a family member, a friend or anybody because in my heart and mind we are S.

I said, You are your own person and can do whatever you choose to do, I have no control nor have ever had any control over you so it is your life to live.

I am doing the same, choosing to live my life how I want to, at some point our lives may reconnect but only GOD know that.

She said, I glad you are getting your life straight, it is about f-ing time, because you sure wouldn't do it for me.

I responded with I am sorry you feel that way it must have been very difficult to have those feelings while trying to hold on while our M was suffering.

I left it at that and haven't really talked to her since, even though she is staying in the next room two feet from mine.

Hang in there!!


Me 47/W 34
T 16 M 13
No kids
BD 6/2013
W asked that I move out 6/2013
I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013
separate beds not much talking
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I saw that, Wonka. Trying to better understand how much PROOF Dev has that his wife is lying to him, as well as what it was (if anything) that they AGREED to during separation, before being able to advise him as to how to best lay down the boundary.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Alright,

Here's the deal. Nothing was agreed upon for the terms of our S. W would not agree to anythjng like that as she was involved with OM. The only truth she is telling me is that it's not really going to go anywhere. I say that because I've seen it in my intel.

Starsky, my intel is very good. Her phone intermittently and occasionally, and other access with communication between them. I know they are having sex for sure. It's discussed in communication I have.

Really with the terms of our S, and she is not denying a sexual relationship, just says that he is a really good friend also. I don't have much room I don't think.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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This is totally random, and I'm sure it falls in the scheme of doing things for myself, not to affect my W, but I wonder if I should take all her stuff that is still at the house and deliver it to her new place. That might not pave the road home so to speak, but it would sure give the message I'm serious about moving on.

Pretty sure it's similar to the wedding rings, pictures etc.

Do it if it's for me and what I want to do

Thoughts?

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Dev,

With your intel about W's activities with the OM, it is all the more reason to go PITCH BLACK with W and get your ducks lined up in a row regarding the legalities of a S.

As for taking W's stuff out and delivering it to her new place, the answer is no. Not your place to do so.

Through your stated boundary, contacting L, and going dark on W are all actions of a strong and courageous man.

I am sure Starsky will come around and share his experiences on how he made sure Mrs. Starstky paid back money that funded her affair. Very informative and enlightening that all LBS men should take note here when their wives are active in an affair with the OM.

Stay the course, buddy!

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Thanks for the advice Wonka,

Appreciate the support, it's a long haul here, but bring on the darkness.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Getting a steady barrage of text messages from the wife about how awful the kids are on the hike she's taking them on. and how now she's a failure. She's also texting how good they make her feel about herself in a sarcastic manner. She doesn't seem to get that she needs to look inwards. I don't think I should respond.

Any thoughts?


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Dev,

Ask yourself:

-are the kids in danger?
-does this really require a response?

Did W think a divorce is all cotton candy and popsicles??

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Good points Wonka,

Guess I see it as an opportunity to validate difficult times. But in reality, the OM, who has no interest in anything to do with kids (which may be where my W has developed her newfound realization about not wanting kids) can start to deal with her when this happens. See how well that goes over.

They aren't in danger, hopefully not at least, and it does not require a response.

Cheers,

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Originally Posted By: Wonka


Ask yourself:

-are the kids in danger?
-does this really require a response?





Precisely.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Yes, Dev!!!! Back out. Don't respond. She will then have only OM to text those frustrations to. And he has no interest in dealing with kids!?!? Ha. Aha. Ahahahahaha.

Then let's see how long he's the OM while having to deal with texts like THAT.

Stay the course, bro!


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Thanks everyone,

My thoughts exactly Train, my thoughts exactly....

Staying strong here

Dev


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Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Dev, stay dark. W will hit a wall with OM and go down in flames. Then she may finally realize what she's done. Don't enable her. She needs to hit rock bottom before she comes to her senses. I'm hoping that her epiphany will come soon. You just need to stay the course. Keep strong.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
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Hey Peter,

Thanks for your words. I'm trying. All communication has been focused on the kids, and it's been minimal at best.

I'm not going to lie, it is counter to everything I think. I feel like I should be making sure interactions are positive, ensuring that she has positive memories of me.

I am courteous and cordial in all communication. And don't get sucked into her spew. A few times when I have asked a simple question, she has gone off on me. I don't respond, and then usually get an apology.

One question, I usually call the kids at night to say goodnight, and also speak with them in the AM. She finds this incredibly irritating. I just want to speak to my kids. It's not the sword I'm going to fall on. I'd like to keep doing this because sometimes my work prevents me from seeing them as often as I would like. The S has made it a bit worse. She claims the kids don't need it. I guess I have to respect her wishes, just makes me sad. I don't want the kids to think I don't want to see or talk to them. When my W is away from them, there is zero communication.

Any thoughts on how to proceed with that? Acquiesce and respect her wishes? I feel that's what I need to do, just makes me sad.

Thanks

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Dev,

Wanted to shoot off a comment before I leave for a business trip to Chicago.


Originally Posted By: Devaste
One question, I usually call the kids at night to say goodnight, and also speak with them in the AM. She finds this incredibly irritating. I just want to speak to my kids. It's not the sword I'm going to fall on. I'd like to keep doing this because sometimes my work prevents me from seeing them as often as I would like. The S has made it a bit worse. She claims the kids don't need it. I guess I have to respect her wishes, just makes me sad. I don't want the kids to think I don't want to see or talk to them.


You're their father! Keep up with this...irritation or not. Your R with the kids is precious and I admire you for making that effort.

I cannot believe that W claims that "kids don't need it." What planet is she on? Oh right...on planet OM!

If I were you, I'd be firm on this and say that it is important to you & the kids. You'd appreciate her cooperation on this aspect as a co-parent.

Stay strong...you got this!

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Thanks Wonka,

It is important to me, and I will stay the course. Thanks smile

Going strong!

Dev


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Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Dev, I agree 100% with Wonka. It's your relationship with your children. It really has nothing to do with your W. Yes, keep it up. You're kids need your constant, solid love regardless of the turmoil in your M, even more so because of the turmoil. Be that constant in their lives. They are precious.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
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^^^^ Yep. Agree.


M: 40 H: 44
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So I've been maintaining my contact and conversations with the kids as best I can. It's been frustrating. My MIL called to speak with the kids, felt the need to tell me I should move on, W said we bring out the worst in each other. I'm not going to lie, it was tough to hear.

The reality of what my W thinks right now. Kinda too bad. I'm going out tonight, sure I'll be in a happier place. I hope so. Pick myself up and carry on. It's what I do.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Your MIL thinks she's helping you but she's putting her nose where it doesn't belong. You know the situation, her "advice" just muddies the water. Take heart, dear Dev, one day at atime.

Enjoy your evening.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
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Also, I'm pretty sure I know the answer, because I'm planning on not asking my W, but she claims that this is not a decision between the OM and me. But by choosing to remain in contact with the OM, she is losing me. So isn't she making that choice? I know, pointless to muse about this. Just a bit rough today, missing my kids. Need to GAL tonight.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Thanks SS06,

Sometimes it's tough to remember that. Sandi's rules also come to mind for this as well. Cheers

Dev


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M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Quote:
Also, I'm pretty sure I know the answer, because I'm planning on not asking my W, but she claims that this is not a decision between the OM and me. But by choosing to remain in contact with the OM, she is losing me. So isn't she making that choice?


Why are you in such a rush? You only sent your email a couple of weeks ago. It's going to take time for it to sink in. Just keep up the going dark. It may take longer than you think. Stop obsessing about her and her choices. Continue your great work at GAL and self improvement. You're a good man and a H only a fool would leave. At least you're getting there. Keep it up, Dev.

PS Don't listen to your MIL. She's probably getting one side of the story from her D who is totally confused and not thinking straight. So any advice from MIL is deeply skewed.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
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Thanks Peter,

It's a really good point. It's hard to not want to rush. I've figured out it's totally fear that is driving that rush. Like mdu noted in her thread, the fear of time is not good, and I need to shed these fears. My W is probably feeling the effects of what is going on WRT going dark, and having equal guilt and confused feelings, and I may just not know. I don't expect change to occur quickly or fast at all. I wonder if it will occur period, but that's neither here nor there. There is a part of me that wants to take a strong stance and lead by getting the legal separation organized, as well as starting to date. But then I realize I am doing all those things to get a result from her. Not being true to myself, and I realize I'm not going to do that.

Looking forward to my trip with my kids. Can't wait. And it can't come soon enough.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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That's it Dev. Patience. Read the Tao Te Ching. Gets you in a real Zen state of mind.


M: 59 W: 53
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Dev,

Keep going...eyes forward, buddy. You're doing great with your "going dark" plan. Ignore what other people say about your M for they don't know the sitch and aren't walking in your shoes.

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Dev,

What's happening with you? Please give us an update when you can. smile

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Hey Wonka,

Thanks for checking in. Things are going ok. Not great. I'm doing great with GAL, and can't wait for my upcoming vacation. I realize I still care for my W a lot, which is why I'm still in this boat. I'm doing my best.

Hard to know if I had a setback or not. Kids called me to go swimming with them. I couldn't say no. It was a great three hours of time with kids, until W started blaming me for her body changing with kids. It's bizzare, because she actually looks the best she's ever looked since she has kids. Her self perception is her own though. At that time I regretted going. Thought it was for the kids though, and they were happy I came.

Been dark besides that, and she is now away. I know she's still in contact with OM. Intelligence..... No way she is stopping soon. Overall, have to say, I'm almost at a point where I don't care, which is good I think.

She's away for three days now, then I leave on my holiday for two weeks. Can't wait. I realized the special things that count to me.

My daughter tonight told me tonight "that her and her brothers are big fans of me, and they love me". Six year old treasures that can't be beaten. That's what I live for smile

I'll write some more musings tomorrow. I'm off to play some hockey.

Thanks for checking in Wonka, means a lot to me

Devaste


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Wow,

These boards are active today. So, my W has been visiting the OM, I'm assumming here based on conversations, since Monday. I've had NC for the last two days and it actually feels really good.

Met with my L today. I need to stay the course right now until W start full time at the local community centre. She will be making good money, and that will effect the spousal support etc. Her plan is for September. I got some valuable advice, and now need to do some more preparatory homework.

All in all a productive day. Layed out my plan for the next few months, and feel good about going forward. Now I just need to workout today, and I'll be a happy man.

Cheers

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Okay,

Question here. One of my boundaries has been no OM in my car or our house.

I am switching cars with my W for the upcoming holiday. I will be gone for a long time. When W asked about switching cars, I made reference to the fact that I was comfortable a long as my boundary was maintained. I was then accused of being controlling and an [censored]. Everything I do I was told is controlling.

I understand she is free to do what she wants, and the trick for me is that I guess maybe it is a bit controlling to do that? I just feel that it's not something I will tolerate. But I do need the other car. Any thoughts?

Dev


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M: 10. T: 18
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Seems to me I may have to rent a car, and I forgot to add, having the house empty while I'm gone and her having full access leaves me a bit worried as well. Going to need to move some documents.


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Hi Dev;
Rental car is a good idea. And only leave stuff around the house that you want the W to find.

I remember leaving an article "How to Permanently End your Affair" on my office credenza when I went away for a couple of days. I know the W looked at it because it's position was moved.

When I went away last weekend, I hid all my DB & DR stuff, notes, plans, manifestos, etc., but I did leave a book I was reading called "Worn Out Woman" (recommended by Sandi I think) on my bookshelf, and when I returned my W said she found the book and took it and is reading it and it's helping her. I did leave that book there because I was hoping she'd find it. It shows her I'm trying to understand her crisis and at the same time I thought it would be a good read for her too, but I wasn't about to thrust it into her hands - that's pursuing.

So if you want your W to read something relevant without you forcing it on her, leave it lying around at your house. If you want her to read a particular passage, just put a sticky note in that page.

And stop worrying about what she's doing or the OM. You cannot control her. You can only control yourself. I know it's hard to detach - man, I have such a hard time with it, but it really does feel better than constantly obsessing over the A. Just go and enjoy your vacation with the kids. Have a great time.


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Thanks Peter,

Your right on not worrying about her or the OM. It's very tough to do, but necessary I know. I'm so looking forward to my vacation, that getting caught up in minor details seems pointless.

Today she was late with meeting to exchange kids, starting crying, and was just generally a mess. As I've noted before it's tough in this situation to not rescue her. I imagine her life is very hard right now. I know mine is.

Three days till I'm gone, can't hardly wait to be drama free for two weeks. Best detachment ever.....

Dev


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Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Dev,

Catching up after being MIA for a few days and look what happens when one's not looking! smile

You're getting some good advice here. My boundary with Ms. Wonka was no OW at the house...near the house...around the house. I was quite angry and vocal when I laid down this boundary. So she took her rendezvouses elsewhere. sick

Oh my...I do have stories about small, stupid things done by Ms. Wonka during her affair-addled phase.

Well done in not trying to rescue your W. She needs to face the consequences of her choices and knows full well your boundary of not being in an open marriage.

Glad to hear that you will be going away for a while...what a wonderful distraction for you!!!

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Thanks Wonka,

Can't hardly wait for my trip to start. I will be off the grid for awhile, but rest assured I will be doing well, with my kiddies. I'll check in and update at some point , but otherwise, should be good!

Nothing really new to report right now. Ms. Dev is going to have a lot of time to herself, hopefully allowing for some reflection and thought, but really, it doesn't matter to me smile

Good luck to everyone in the DB world for the next little while!

See you on the other side wink

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Ok,

Just back from the first week of my unplugged holiday with the kids. Amazing time. Great to spend each and every day with them, and explore and create new experiences. Looking forward to this week as well. Of course, I had to come back into civilization for awhile, and this is when things got a bit bad.

While I was away, I could receive texts, but not send. Of course, not one came from my W to ask about the kids. She sent generic emails before they left to each child incase we had internet access. We didn't. I had a few questions from the kids about their Mom, but that was it.

Came back today, she came to the house to see them for a bit. I went out. Came back, she brought the kids back, broke down, said I'm controlling what she does because we have a flexible schedule right now. Called me controlling, dismissive and freaked out, said I was treating her like a babysitter. I had to resist suggesting that her current level of involvement is actually similar, and complimenting her on her analogy. Didn't think that would do any good.

Essentially, she's frustrated as her time is coming to an end where she is not working full time. She won't be able to realistically maintain any kind of R with the OM once she starts work, and the kids start activities. Of course this
Is all mind reading, but she texted me all kinds of crap about her being allowed to have a life without me knowing what she is doing. I said I don't care what she's doing, and my focus is on spending as much time as possible with the kids. Especially on holidays.

I'm taking them away again for the rest of this week, until the weekend. Don't really feel like much has changed with her. Of course myself, I'm even more detached, which is good. Can't complain about that.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
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Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Dev,

How wonderful to read that you had a great time with the kiddos!
A change in scenery does one wonders for PMA.

Came back, she brought the kids back, broke down, said I'm controlling what she does because we have a flexible schedule right now. Called me controlling, dismissive and freaked out, said I was treating her like a babysitter. I had to resist suggesting that her current level of involvement is actually similar, and complimenting her on her analogy. Didn't think that would do any good.


Still feeling entitled. She expected you to roll over so she can do whatever she wanted to do at any time. No so fast, dear. I notice that when the LBS puts a boundary on no OM/OW, spew ensues from the WAS calling them "controlling." So funny.

Good job on STFU, Dev! smile

Keep those boundaries in place. She's not liking it one bit at all. Too bad.

Enjoy your week with the kiddos...AGAIN. Cannot ever get enough of them, eh.

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Originally Posted By: Wonka


Still feeling entitled. She expected you to roll over so she can do whatever she wanted to do at any time. No so fast, dear. I notice that when the LBS puts a boundary on no OM/OW, spew ensues from the WAS calling them "controlling." So funny.





Yep. Total SCRIPT, right out of the WAS playbook!


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Haha,

Yes, I'm not surprised. Forgot this little gem when I told her she was free to do what she wanted.

"It must kill you that your slutty W would rather die than touch you"

I texted back "Really, did you just say that? Whatever makes you feel good"

Immediately wish I hadn't, but it ended the conversation.


I'm also dismissive and never listen. I find these
character descriptions so helpful for my self identification wink

Am I gone again yet? Take me away..... Wonka, you are so right. My time with the kids is the best. Won't trade it for anything. Even a WAS.....

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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I've found this ol reliable standby to be pretty effective:

I'm sorry you feel this way.

That usually shuts them up pretty quickly because it makes them see how foolish the comment is, you're not falling for that, and it is HER CIRCUS.

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Dev ... just spent .. who knows how long reading this entire thread. Hats off to you and how you have handled key situations, some I plan to steal and apply to my own sitch ... hang in there... and make room for another fan.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Hey CaliGuy,

Thanks for checking it out. Hopefully you get some different results than me. It takes time, and I'm not sure what will happen here in the end. Just keep working on yourself and keep on truckin. Going to head over and read your sitch now.

Cheers

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Yeah I can see the logic in that ... I do not see my sitch turning around for some time, I have made alot of progress on me, this place in a way validated the core things I felt, but has alos through the pain and suffering of so many has also shown me the do's and dont's that I was so guilty of earlier. All I can do is change me, if she reconsiders so be it .. if not I will hope to be a better person for it


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Hi Dev. Looks like your break was better for you than for W. For sure it was good for the kids. Keep up the great work.

I really hope your W starts to see the light. When she does, hopefully it's not too late for you two to rebuild a new M. Patience and time will tell.

I find it amazing, how long this whole process takes.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
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Yes Peter,

Break was very good for me. Just to get away and not have internet and focus on my kids was the best. First night they aren't with me in 8. Miss them incredibly. It's why I keep the battle going. Why would I settle? My W is so far gone now, but I know how is still feel. I'm realizing that really, no matter what, I can only do so much. Ultimately, I can build a
pathway towards reconciliation, but if she choses to not even go down that path, that's on her. Patience and a long battle indeed. She told me to get my financials together and give them to her lawyer......I'll get right on that not.......

It's a long haul. And there is no end in sight.

Devo


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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So quick question, and it looks like I'm going to need another thread soon.

I took my kids to the country fair where they inadvertently ran into their mom. They noticed from a distance their M texting on the phone, and my D asked who she's always texting. My older S said I know, and then told me the OM name. He had brought this up with me before, and asked that it be our secret.

He said today I could tell his M that he has seen the messages. I'm not sure if I should mention it to her or not. I have scheduled IC for my kids, just to deal with what is going on, and so they have some of their needs met. My concern really is to tell her to let her know. I know it upsets my son because he told me...but I really have no control over what she does with her phone and the kids.

Let it slide, not creating guilt, have it brought up in kids IC, or take a stand for my children? Thoughts? Don't see this good well in any manner


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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My son, who was a month away from 8, saw texts between H and OW on his dad's phone and put things together. (Daddy moved out, Mom is sad, Daddy's texting (insert OW's pet name here)).

He asked me about it, and I was honest. (I was also age-appropriate in my response.)

It might not be a popular stance on these boards, and it's most probably not a DB approach. But at a time when my kids' lives were turned upside down and H was having an A in my small hometown - so practically everyone knew and MANY were talking about it - I chose to be the one person who would be honest with the kids who were old enough to ask questions and/or understand what was going on.

I've been told by one vet here that my actions were "sickening." I was also accused, by the same poster, of throwing my H off his "hero" pedestal in my son's mind. My position is that IF H was thrown from some "hero" status, he did that himself by 1. abandoning his family for OW and 2. not scrubbing his texts thoroughly before handing S8 his phone to play with.

H is back, and he and S8 continue to have a remarkable relationship. S8 rarely makes statements or asks questions about those few months. But when he does? H is open and honest with him about it. And he uses it as a teaching moment for S8. I also remain open and honest. It has given me opportunities to talk about the value of love and forgiveness.

Life will never be perfect for anyone.

When a child sees something and asks about it - especially in these circumstances - I think it's important they know at least one person in their universe is being stable and consistent and honest ... but also CAREFUL in how it's handled. No trash-talking W. But I know I don't have to tell you this.

That's just me, though, Dev.


M: 40 H: 44
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S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
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Oh but PS I never addressed with my H that S8 had seen the texts between him and OW. Just for what that's worth.


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It's not just you, Train -- I was honest with my kids too (in an age-appropriate way). It's stunning to me how that can even be controversial. And my wife IS a hero to them, especially our adult daughters, because they saw her -- flaws and all -- ultimately decide to do the right thing and work hatd to restore her marriage and her family.

Dev, I would err on the side of protecting your kids. Say something like "Look I'm only going to say this once, but it upsets the kids when you text OM where they can see you. What you do on your own time is your business, but I'm sure we can agree that we need to protect the kids thru this mess. And for GOD's sake, LOCK YOUR PHONE. NO child should have to read texts from their mother to her boyfriend. "

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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