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Sounds like you're keeping strong. Way to go.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
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Devaste Offline OP
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Okay,

So some interesting developments, but just trying to stay present.

After the debacle on Tuesday where my W went ballistic on the kids, she took some time for herself. Late yesterday, she started texting me, even a bit on Tuesday night. She was almost making conversation. I was brief and polite, but it took everything I had to end the conversation. Mostly about the kids. And some struggles she was having with some set up at her apt.

Next day, she again initiated contact, and actually asked if the kids could speak with her. She then sent pictures etc, and tried to converse via text. I again was not cold, but confident with a PMA. There has been a definite change in her behavior. And her interactions with OM. Although the extent of what is going on I don't know.

Then today. We had a FT appt, and W started texting me before and asked if I wanted to go out for coffee or lunch after the FT appt. I responded casually sure, let's see how it goes. FT was fine, when asked about lawyer, W was sort of "oh yeah, I forgot about that". We did go for a quick casual lunch after the FT, and it went well. W wished me a Happy Anniversary, which I found ironic, and then asked if it was possible to maybe come on the family vacation I have planned in two weeks. She said she is scared it wouldn't be a positive experience, but she is interested in meeting for some of it.

So I'm a bit confused, trying to stay present, but she has thrown me for a loop. She knows my stand with respect to OM, and while no mention has been made of a R between the two of us, her demeanour has changed. She wants to get together to talk about the upcoming trip and some "other things"

I'm nervous and not sure what to do. I know not to focus on the future, and stay present in the moment, but I don't want to make any mistakes (although isn't that how you learn smile )

Any thoughts?

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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I would meet her to hear what she has to say.

But I think you have to stay firm to your 'no friendship' unless she's done with OM, so I'd say no joining the trip unless it's really done.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
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Dev, I sent a very long post yesterday, but I don't see it anywhere. I was trying to reply to the questions Wonka asked and also your request. My stitch was very different in that my H did not have the tools LBH'S receive here. As far as I know, he never tried to get any. It was also different in that I, the WAW in an A, was the one who reached out for help on this board. If I had not received the information and guidance I did, I don't know what kind of mess our lives would be in now.

I had no desire to work on my M, nor any positive feelings for my H. I made the decision to end the A and stay with my H simply b/c it was the right thing to do. I went through months and months of withdrawal and grieving the OM/A. I had a lot of health issues I was dealing with at the time, which added stress to our stitch. My H would not agree to see a MC, so my therapy was coming here every single night until I couldn't keep my eyes open. It was two years before I could begin to feel different toward my H. I don't usually tell that to posters b/c it is so discouraging for them to hear. And when I say feeling different, I mean not being so bitter with resentment toward him, and learning to respect him and trying to find some middle ground where I could stand to live with him.

The one thing he did do that was critical, he backed off. He stopped pressuring me. And even though he didn't know what a transparency plan was.....I did. So I took the lead there and kept my computer activity, etc., very open. I know he checked, but it was okay b/c I no longer had anything to hide. When there is nothing to hide, a spouse should not be defensive and want their privacy from the other spouse.

He was very patient, b/c that's his way. If it had been the other way around, I doubt I would have been as kind. But it took a hard toll on him, and his health took a big hit. He has steadily gone down ever since.

I am suspicious anytime a W suddenly leaves her affair partner and gets real cozy with the H. B/c I don't think it's that easy or simple. She has to have time to get through the withdrawal and deal with her issues. I know I was a mess for a long time, and I think your W has more problems than I had! I have a hard time believing any woman can jump out of one man's arms and into the other's arms.......and be authentic in her feelings.

Just b/c an A ends is not an automatic reconciliation for the M. Now some women do return to the H out of a need of financial security or to claim her position in the home again, for the kids sake, or other reasons. But I highly recommend that couple have ground rules in place and both agreed upon it before any such move is considered. And, I think it is critical to find an excellent MC or FT to help restore the MR. I don't believe the average couple can successfully get back to the place they need or want to be without professional help. The couple is suffering from battle fatigue and dealing with a lot of wounds. They are too fragile to handle it alone and expect success.

So, back to your W. She seems to have made it rather plain where she stands regarding a R with you. But I think you are confused about her warming up and being nicer? Unless I missed something, that's all I see that has changed. Here's my take on it......don't be suckered into anything just b/c you are seeing a shift in her attitude, personality, or manners. It is like a menu......subject to change at any time.

One reason alone I would be suspicious is her wanting to go on the family vacation. But she is quick to tell you not to get excited b/c it doesn't mean anything for the two of you (not her exact words, but same meaning). But here is the thinking of a WAW. She doesn't want to be your "wife" but she wants the benifits. To me, it's old school stuff for girls. Act nice, kiss up a little, and get him eating out of your hand. Then get what you want, and afterwards, drop him again and go do your own thing. Cold hearted? You betcha! Any middle school girl knows how. Yet, it is still the number one thing that makes LBH'S stumble all over the place and buys it every time.

Please be very careful. You just told her you would not be her friend, and what does she do? Proving you wrong! Proceed with extreme caution. Continue to act indifferent. Don't be an a$$, but show a polite tolerance & indifference. Sit back and just watch to see where she goes with it.

And the vacation deal? You will have to decide about it. I just hope you don't get set up for a let down. WAW's are famous for it.

I do have questions about you both going to this FT. What is goal? Is it for both of you, or just her? Is it to lean how to co-parent, or reconciling?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Hey Sandi,

Thanks for stopping by and your insight. It's helpful, and of course interesting!

First off, the FT is for coparenting, not reconciliation. She was doing some IC, but I believe she has stopped. I would love her to continue, but she needs to do that on her own will. She is concerned about finances, and doesn't really want to spend the money.

With respect to how I am acting, I am acting cordial and courteous for the kids, but that is it. Trying to be the pleasant neighbour who doesn't care what she is doing. I have responded to texts regarding the kids in a timely fashion, and resisted when she has provided more. This is very hard.

I agree with you Sandi, I just told her how our relationship would be if the OM is still in her life, and after she flipped out, she told me he would be in some capacity, and then she changes her behavior. I need to be consistent. It's a battle, as I want to show the man I have become, and part of that is showing my strength at maintaining my boundaries. My improved communication skills, my internal reflection, and my ability to actively listen are also other attributes I know would help a new R, but that's not happening right now. I'm not going to expect anything, continue to be extremely cautious, and really keep moving forward. Not rushing into a D is better for me anyways. If she is conflicted, which I doubt she is, she's going to have to work that out herself.

Mind reading here Sandi, but I think she is pretty similar to you where you were at when you said you had no interest in M. However, the difference is you felt staying M was the right thing to do. My W does not feel that way, and I think she is very scared that nothing would be different if she came back, and also that she would never be forgiven. I haven't addressed that again, as early on I said I could move past that, and forgive. It just hasn't had to come up.

I will meet with her to hear what she has to say, but going from there, I don't plan on having her be a part of our vacation unless the OM is out of the picture completely. I don't see that happening. It's a cautionary time for sure.

Thanks for all your advice,

Cheers

Devaste


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

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Dev,

You're getting tons of helpful insights and advice from Sandi. Wow.

Originally Posted By: Dev
I don't plan on having her be a part of our vacation unless the OM is out of the picture completely. I don't see that happening. It's a cautionary time for sure.


Can you stand by this stance? Trust me, W will try to use her feminine wiles on you to get you to cave in and allowing her to join on the family trip.

What are you gonna say to her if this happens? Be on the ready for that knuckleball.

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Hey Wonka

I'm prepared for that knuckleball should that occur. I think I will say that at this time, given our current situation, I don't see it being a benefit to our children or the two of us to go on vacation together. It will confuse the kids, and I think it will confuse the two of us. Moving forward with our separate lives, it's imperative that we establish our own independence. Not sure, but that's what I'm thinking?

The letter has definitely had an effect. Now I'm just being patient and waiting. All my intelligence leads me to believe communication has really dried up. My windows show nothing, although I assume contact is still occurring. To be honest, I really don't want her on this trip, which is probably what I should really just say. I don't think it's a good idea right now, given our current situation.

Thanks again for your help Wonka. The adventure continues.

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

Keeping the dream alive
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
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A nice way would be to frame the trip as a boys only trip! Bonding over warpaint, farting, belching...what not! grin

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Devaste Offline OP
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Except that wouldn't be as much fun for my daughter of course wink


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

Keeping the dream alive
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
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Whooops! I was speed-reading when I scanned the info below your signature and all I saw was "S" all the way.

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