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#2465724 07/03/14 02:07 PM
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Almost to 100 posts and feel it's time to transition to new thread.

Thanks to FY for the idea for my new thread title- since he assigned me to write it on the blackboard I thought this would be a good reminder! smile

My first thread was Roller Coaster and Then Some- I think this is the link.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2445162#Post2445162

Brief synopsis of my sitch:

Me 40, H 39 4 kids: s19, s16, d12, s7

High school sweethearts, married 20 years
Since about 2010 knew " something wasn't right" with H. Became moody and very different personality. Started buying lots of motorized toys, having an EA with our friend/neighbor. In late 2012 told me he wasn't sure our marriage was going to work- said he was " deprioritized" and I wasn't meeting his needs. I do have a very demanding job and was building a new practice during all this so I tried to change as much as I could and work on things that I knew were issues ( including a somewhat SSM for years). Nothing I did seemed to be enough. Then in Sept 2013 he told me he was seeking out a divorce. I was shocked. Despite all our issues- I didn't expect him to do that. Found DB/DR 3 days later and realized this is MLC.
He moved out Oct 1 and filed Oct 10. Hasn't done anything more with it but who knows.
Moved back in Jan 17 because he was suicidal. Got on AD, going to IC but still not sure about relationship. Moved back out early May saying he just felt he needed to move forward with the divorce in order to get through everything. Hasn't moved forward on that yet, and I am just trying to drop the rope and Gal.
We have a good friendship right now and are good coparents. I see baby steps, but recent events have opened my eyes this is going to be a very long journey and I'm not reading every positive as a sign he's coming back. Slowly getting myself off the roller coaster.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2465726 07/03/14 02:09 PM
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daring,

I love the title of your newest thread!

---GG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



GoatGal #2466095 07/04/14 02:53 PM
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Thanks GG- thought it would be a good way to remind me!

So H seems pretty down that the current job didn't work out in that he folded his own company in and thought he would have some creative control- instead he hasn't been able to convince them to change direction. It's interesting because he often likens his own behavior and " lack of doing the work" regarding the relationship to what his fellow executives are doing. Interesting how sometimes they have insight but can't seem to do anything about it. I do see slow movement though.

Had a dream last night that he was on phone with me and said " I love you" right before hanging up. Interesting as that was one of the things I noticed right before BD- after 20 years he all the sudden was ending phone conversations without saying I love you.

Just jotting down the thoughts in my head today. Happy 4th everyone- hope your GAL activities today are fulfilling! I'm on call so can't go far. I'm taking little ones to carnival and fireworks. Should be fun!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2466099 07/04/14 03:01 PM
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daring,

I know exactly what you mean about the lack of the "I love you" at the end of a phone call.

The first time it happened after we finally re-established phone contact, it was like a dagger to my heart.

I had prepared my whole conversational script, but I wasn't prepared for that.
I didn't expect him to say it, but I was unprepared how it made me feel.

It's still like that, this awkward--"Umm, bye then" we have now, and so I often try and get off first before he has a chance to "not" say it.

It hurts. As much as I'm furious with him and often wish I'd hit the lottery so I could tell him to just go stuff it... it still hurts.

So---what are we doing this 4th of July?
We are getting a FUN LIFE as FUN WOMEN!

---GG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



GoatGal #2466173 07/04/14 10:39 PM
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GG- that awkward end if the conversation really is frustrating! Hang in there and keep focus on you!

Interesting events today.... H hung out with family and grilled by the pool. Then as I was changing out of bathing suit he came in room and helped me put aloe lotion on. Was clearly getting turned on and kept looking in my eyes like he wanted to kiss me. I hugged him quickly to break the tension and he was holding really tight. Then he did end up kissing me a bit, and tried to have things progress. I took his hands and held them, stopped kissing him, and told him he needed to go take our daughter to her friends 4th party. He said " are you kicking me out?" I said- yes. He then said are you sure? And I again said yes.
He went out of room, then came back and said I'm sorry- I know that was too much. I said I'm ok. He said- then why aren't you naked? I laughed and said bye!

Sooooo- I know I set a boundary recently that I would not be intimate with him and it was very hard to stop the process, but I'm not quite ready. That said- I see some steps toward me lately, and his LL is physical touch ( big time!!) so I'm wondering if this may be an opportunity to remind him of our connection. Of course I won't do it if I'm feeling used, and quite frankly I'm enjoying teasing him a little bit but I can't do that forever. For now he should certainly go home thinking about me smile

Any of the guys on the board want to weigh in for me?


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2466285 07/05/14 05:26 PM
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So do they cycle much more quickly on either end of the tunnel?

I'm sure I'm hoping some, though I have made great strides in my detachment lately. It just seems H is all over the place again similar to the beginning of this crisis several years ago. A couple of weeks ago I saw replay behaviors ( albeit mild), now he's bouncing in and out of depression and withdrawal. Seems like he wants to spend time with me and family but is fishing for invites and interest from me.
Also made the comment last night that it's prob better for him not to be alone for long so he was going to go hang with our daughter at her friends house 4th party ( we were all invited but I took 2 of our boys to a carnival).
I told him if he was feeling that down and needed anything to please call me ( he hasn't expressed these types of feelings since he was suicidal in Jan so it worried me, though he says he's not at that low of a point).

I know his job is ending and he needs to find something which is adding stress, so that could be part of it. But just seems different- like he's more of himself but cycling.....

In any case I have lots of GAL activities planned over the next month. Continuing to develop my own life in the event that he doesn't come back, but try to keep the door cracked in a way that I am not pulled back onto the roller coaster.
Really wish I could just hold him and tell him he can get through all this. Funny how my strength is coming back.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2466305 07/05/14 09:04 PM
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Hi daring,
I suggest that you keep the no ML boundary. The teasing is OK, I think. Remind him that part of what he is giving up if he can't commit is the intimacy that you have shared for so long.

On the maybe good news front, I read here a while back that when the MLC is coming out of the tunnel, it IS common for them to cycle through all the stages, not staying long in any one but as they progress, they will "close the door" forever on each stage until they come out the other side. Hopefully this is what is happening with your H. Just be careful at this stage as you can easily cause them to run and hide longer in any one of the stages. Patience is sorely needed at this time.

Keep up what works and don't let yourself do anything that you know you shouldn't. Good luck, I'm rooting for you!

Matt165 #2466362 07/06/14 06:43 AM
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Very wise thread title. wink Never forget it, and never stop growing and becoming a better person.

Michele wrote about having sex with our spouse during this time. Maybe someone can post it (or a link to it) here for us.

Basically, she said if it would make you feel used, or otherwise bad, then you don't want to do it.

But, if you feel it could be a way for you both to connect in a loving way, then you may want to be open to the possibility, even if it's only occasionally... especially since you mentioned SSM being a past issue requiring your attention.

Plus, if I read you correctly, you're fairly certain H's not cake eating.

If all this is the case, I'd say rewarding positive behavior could go a long way to helping rebuild your marriage.

As always, monitor results.

"Really wish I could just hold him and tell him he can get through all this."

Why can't you? He's already holding you. Telling him you know he can get through this is not you trying to fix him... it's you showing you support and believe in him, and then leave him to it. This is what he needs from you now!

"Funny how my strength is coming back."

You should feel strong. Marriages that have made it past the 20 year mark have already weathered through most of the typical issues that end most marriages at the 7-8 year mark. You and your H learned how to resolve these marriage ending conflicts a long time ago. You have something worth saving! Even in his crisis, your H seems to be able to see this too.

And now you are both learning some new things. And once you get through the crisis your M will be even stronger than it ever was before.

Remember: The more steady, confident, and independent you are, the more H will be drawn to you. The more meaning and purpose you create in your life, the more attractive you will be. Keep On Bustin'.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thanks Matt and FY for your input. I had read Hearts Blessing's stages where they talk about revisiting each stage but wasn't sure if rapid firing is part of it. I also read Michelle's discussion on sex with the estranged spouse and potential risks/benefits.

I decided to go for it yesterday when the opportunity presented itself and it was very nice to connect some. He kept checking to make sure I was ok with us being intimate ( including after) and seemed very genuine. I really feel ok with it and didn't feel like I was " giving in", more like I was sharing some connection to help him where he's at in his journey. I know that sounds corny but really thats where I'm at. And I still feel strong and positive.

As far as the status of things- something FEELS different. I can't put my finger on it but I see H being gentler, more considerate, more introspective but not in such a tortured way. Maybe it's also that I have reached a different level of detachment where his difficult days aren't taken personally. It's probably both and it feels like movement in a way that I feel more peaceful and positive. It's nice. I'm trying to let him bake while I enjoy the smell of sweetness beginning to waft from the oven.....not rushing anything as if this is going to work it needs to be done right.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2467239 07/09/14 03:24 PM
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I am having a bad few days. S16 had friends over two nights ago who ended up staying the night without pre-planning it and were quite loud. Ended up happening the next night as well even though I had said they need to not stay over. Nothing egregious but he was being a normal teenager who is self focused.
H was really angry about it though- and last night as soon as I got home a discussion ensued that was quite uncomfortable. S16 was trying to not accept responsibility for some of his choices, but H was also talking to him with sarcastic jabs and being controlling. Was attacking his character more than necessary in my opinion. Then got upset with me because I was calmly stating my expectations but was being " too nice" WTF???
Then S16 really went after it and started trying to split us saying he asked mom, not dad about friends over and it's her house. And mom is being more reasonable then you are. H took the bait and got even more pi$$y asking him WTH that was all about.
Afterwords I was clearly very upset b/c I can step back and see it us more about the relationship than the issue at hand but H can't see it right now. I also realize I need to set clearer boundaries with S but I also worry about him b/c he had an admit in March for depression and suicidal thoughts and though he is receiving treatment and much better his mental state is still fragile.
I also had lovely input from my nanny of 5 yrs who has different perspectives on parenting and made me feel crappy. I'm touchy feely, she's not. Usually I'm fine with that but this all hit me and I bawled my eyes out last night and this morning.

H wanted to talk more last night about what we needed to do and what I thought he needed to change in his approach ( that is a very good thing I know) but I said I think this conversation should happen at another time because we need to be able to hear each other not just have the need to be right. He agreed.

I wrote him an email last night with my thoughts. This morning I called him b/c nanny was being judgmental again ( she's not usually like this) and I was just emotionally done. He listened and tried to help. Texted me later that he's sorry and we can talk through this and find ways to support each other better.

Maybe this all will turn out to be a good thing but I haven't cried that much and felt so hurt in months. Clearly it hit something and I told H I know we are both projecting our own wounds into this. Thankful I have IC today!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2467341 07/09/14 08:17 PM
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Hi daring,
Sorry to hear about your son and his sitch. Just remember, he is hurting because of H's MLC as well as you. My D19 has been staying at her boyfriends apartment since coming back from her trip last week. I talked to her and told her that I didn't think she should be living with him and that's pretty much what she has been doing. What she said really hit me..hard! She said "But it's so NORMAL here, not like at home and with mom acting so nuts!".

I realized that the kids are taking this harder than I thought. Even at 19, she just can't understand why her mom is doing what she is. She talks to me about it a lot and about how "crazy" her mom is acting and how she doesn't want to stay at her place but feels like she would be hurting her mother if she doesn't (she hasn't yet stayed there but has been there 2 times). She says that when she tells my W she was staying with me her mom gets upset and looks "sad".

If your son is just out of major depression, H really shouldn't be talking to him the way you described. He needs guidance yes, but having had to deal with major depression in my W, it's easy to say the wrong things. He's trying to deal with the changes at home and in his father just like you are. I realized that while my W was still living at home, I was spending so much energy on my M and my W while mom was just acting out and denying, it had to affect the kids just as much as me and my W. Of course you have to make sure S16 isn't being disrespectful and breaking the rules or just plain ignoring you but at the same time I'm sure he is angry and confused and add on the depression and he must be hurting. It's so normal for 16 year olds to 'split" the parents. My D did it like a champ. But after she got a little older she stopped (part of me thinks she blames herself somewhat for W's leaving as how to deal with her was the biggest thing that we used to fight about).

I guess all I'm saying is just remember that with your M still "up in the air" I'm sure S16 is also feeling the home and family as "unstable" right now and that's a lot to deal with, even at 16.

Matt165 #2468238 07/12/14 03:52 PM
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Thanks Matt for the support. That was a really rough day and I agree- these kids take it much harder than we realize even when we are doing everything we can to keep it from impacting their day today.

I'm sorry to hear your daughter is having a hard time as well. I understand where she is coming from- when my parents were separated and eventually divorced my mom would say disparaging things about my dad and get angry if I spent time with him. Even after I was married and had my first child I would hide the fact that I visited him from her. She found some pictures one day and let me have it. I finally had to put my foot down but it took me years. So hard when your parents put you in the middle like that. If your W is manipulating your kids- it will unfortunately come back to bite her. I always had a better relationship with my dad than mom because he understood that their issues should not prevent me from a relationship.

As far as my home- things are better. I'm emotionally exhausted from the week's events, but I think I did get through to H some and I'm impressed at his receptivity ( he used to be receptive but I hadn't seen that in a long time due to all his anger). He made an effort to spend time with S16 the next day and let the events if previous day go. He apologized for going off on him but still ate the expectation boundaries. He also is took both older sons to a work dinner with him the next night. I'm really glad to see that H is peeking through with some remnants of old self. But I also realize it's still a long road.

Have an awesome GNO planned to a concert tonight and one of my friends couldn't go last minute so I invited S16 and he said yes! I was surprised- and thrilled. We are going to have a great time!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2468908 07/15/14 02:48 AM
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Well I had a bit of a backslide tonight, hopefully not too much damage done.

I had a really long day- have a Doc on vacation so I saw double the usual patients and did a surgery and finally left at 830 pm. I had known it would be a long day so H had planned to have kids ahead of time.

Earlier today he texted me asking if it was ok if he had some people over tonight to swim and grill. They are all from his work that he's about to leave, and I know almost all of them. I said ok as I don't want to be a %it@h and I also want him to want to be at our house.

Well, on the drive home I was feeling exhausted and bummed that I didn't have anyone to go home to for just snuggling after such a long day.

I got to house and he was wrapping up putting away good and getting everyone home.
He noticed I was down and I said I was just tired but he could see through it. Kept asking and I said no big deal if I wasn't so overtired I wouldn't be over sensitive. He seemed hurt that I wouldn't tell him- kept asking if he did something and I said no. Finally I just told him- it's hard that he wants to leave our home because he doesn't want to spend time with me but he wants to spend time with other people at my house ( I didn't include this part but of course it's my house and not his rental- we built an awesome pool and outdoor grill area a few years back just for having low key get together a like this). I know- bad DBing but it was either tell the truth or him be more upset because I wouldn't talk to him.
He said I know it's hard and I hate seeing you hurt. Then said he wasn't trying he to exclude me, it was winding down even before I got home.

Then talked about his upcoming interview with a company in CA- said it would be interesting- I said how so? Then he says he's tired and going to head home, we can talk tomorrow. I said are you trying to tell me you are moving to CA? He said no I like my kids, and believe it or not I like seeing you too.

Then said he was really tired. He had all the kids at his house last night and said he woke up at three and couldn't go back to sleep. I said why? He said I don't know, can't sleep with the kids but can't sleep well alone either.

Again something is slightly different- I see very subtle movement towards me but still needing the safety of being able to run back.

In any case- maybe sharing my feelings wasn't terrible DBing- I'm very strong and independent so showing that I want him in my life may help as long as most of the time I'm just doing my own thing.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2469305 07/16/14 01:53 AM
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It's a mixed bag today.....
Good that H called wanting to talk and share with me when things were going really terribly at work today ( hate for him that the feeling of low self worth is clearly creeping in), but then he was distant tonight after his IC.

He always seems to pull back significantly on days he has IC. I'm not sure if he's having to face wounds and difficult topics so he " runs" from me emotionally, or if she specifically directs him to back away. There are some things he's told me about their sessions that seem very helpful, but others that clearly don't value marriage to the same degree I do, and also that push him to handle the kids in a way that is not necessarily the best ( I happen to know his counselor doesn't have kids so I am very wary of her take on things).

I get quite stirred up when he goes to therapy b/c I know it helps in some ways as it makes him think and face some of his issues, but on the flip side his previous counselors pushed him to ask for a divorce as they saw he was " unhappy". In his foggy MLC state I worry that he will listen to things that aren't what he needs to do.

So what this all tells me is I am getting too sucked back into all of this. I can't control what happens and I'm tired of roller coasters so time to get back to detaching and working on me. I was doing so well for awhile.....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2469458 07/16/14 03:00 PM
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Hi Daring, my darling. smile

Quote:
He noticed I was down and I said I was just tired but he could see through it. Kept asking and I said no big deal if I wasn't so overtired I wouldn't be over sensitive. He seemed hurt that I wouldn't tell him- kept asking if he did something and I said no. Finally I just told him- it's hard that he wants to leave our home because he doesn't want to spend time with me but he wants to spend time with other people at my house ( I didn't include this part but of course it's my house and not his rental- we built an awesome pool and outdoor grill area a few years back just for having low key get together a like this). I know- bad DBing but it was either tell the truth or him be more upset because I wouldn't talk to him.


^^^ How did this effect his behavior or words in the following days?

Quote:
In any case- maybe sharing my feelings wasn't terrible DBing-


I agree. Every case is a little different and your H is still somewhat present. I believe it is possible to build on that in a constructive manner, as long as you are NOT being needy or pursuing. You can be good friends, and even someone he likes to open up to. <<<This would be ideal right now, and seems like something you have an opportunity to achieve.

Now that you’ve told him what you did about his behavior hurting you, allow him to SEE that you really do have a fulfilling and meaningful life outside of your M. I know you’re still working on this and that’s ok! We should never stop growing/improving.

What’s a meaningful and fulfilling life for you? Continue to work on that. Make it real and H will see it… Maybe even want to be part of it someday.

Remember, for the M to work, H is going to have to catch up to YOU. He’s spinning and searching, and you’re the lighthouse on the rock.

Quote:
I'm very strong and independent so showing that I want him in my life may help as long as most of the time I'm just doing my own thing.


Right!

Oh, and I know how difficult it can be when your spouse is not interested in snuggling, so... (((hugs)))


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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FY!!!! ((((Hugs)))) to you too.

So how did my sharing impact his behavior? It's hard to say as he also has terrible things going on at work and is really down.
Two changes that are apparent- the night I mentioned being upset he was compassionate and didn't seem like he needed to " run" because he couldn't handle my hurt on top of his. Also made a point to say he likes seeing me.
Second is that when he is hurt or down- he's reaching out to me. He texted, and called and some of them he would say " just to say hi" but I could tell he needed to talk and I made sure I listened and supported. It's been awhile since he's come to me to talk when he's really upset about those things.

He was still a bit distant in person but I just let him have his space and go do things he needed to ( dinner with friends last night etc).
He flew out to LA today to interview for that new position. They want him to move- which he is not willing to do ( yay!!) but said it was a nice ego boost to see himself valued. When I said the right doors will open soon- he said he's just going to open them himself.
I love that! And I said I was happy for him that he was seeing his abilities in a positive light. And to let me know how I can help.

You are so right that he is going to have to catch up to ME, and has even said watching me shows him how far he has to go. I will be the lighthouse.

And in the meantime I'm going to a 4 day scrapbooking weekend with the girls next week, and then a cruise with my mom, daughter and close friend in a few weeks. I can have happy and fulfilling without him- but sure would love to have it with him smile

And I see glimpses that he would like that too.....

By the way FY you need to start a new thread to keep us updated on you!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2470877 07/21/14 02:35 AM
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So here's where I'm at tonight and I need some thoughts on it....

For the most part things are positive. H met up with his friend who he started the initial company with and is at current awful place with. They talked about starting something up again on their own and H is really excited ( texted me at midnight last night on way home- good things- wanted to share with me).

Today he came over and we had some intimacy time that was great. Part of our SSM history were my issues, but he also got into a juvenile way of seeing sex and women and that impacted us significantly. I see him being more loving and connected which is really great. After we spent time just snuggling ( I had so been needing that- yay!) during that he just out of the blue says- I'm sorry I'm so crazy. I said it's ok, glad your job is becoming something you're excited about- that will be good for you.

Rest of day was back and forth us splitting up with various kids to get errands done. This weekend when I'm at girls time and younger kids are going to the beach with friends- H is going to take s16 for a fun weekend of ATVing so he was getting that all ready. All in all quite good.

So here's the part I'm having mixed feelings about and might need a mild smack upside the head. H's lease is up beginning of Oct. He has realized he made a poor choice renting a huge house and was considering a smaller house to rent. Then today he was talking about how he might not have much of an income for awhile as he starts up the business, and will probably need to look at something smaller, and needs to figure out health insurance etc. I told him he's still on my insurance ( since he filed for D but hasn't moved forward I haven't pulled him off my health plan and as long as we are married I don't mind carrying that. He has health issues that can't go without meds). I also said I would help him find an apt if he wanted.
What I was hoping he might say is he wants to move back. Part of me is not sure the timing is correct though as he just in the last few weeks seems to be emerging from the tunnel bit by bit. I don't think he's ready to commit and may not ever be- though I'm hopeful. I get the sense sometimes that he wants to prove to himself he can make it on his own ( hasn't asked me for any money) but other times it seems he makes the comments about " being broke for awhile until business takes off" and " having no income" likes he's leaving an opening for me to make an offer.
So what I thought I would do is bring up a middle ground- since our oldest will be back at college then I was going to offer for him to stay in S19 room ( maybe even rent it if he feels he needs to contribute) until he gets the business up and running and can get his own place. That way I'm not assuming he will just stay forever and it gives him an option and an out.
I feel like at one point I sent him back in the tunnel a bit from pressure even when I didn't realize I was placing it, so I'm treading lightly. But in this case I really do just want to help him. With a little hope but no expectations that he might eventually decide he likes home the best.

Input ( and smacks) appreciated....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2471375 07/22/14 07:19 PM
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Daring, you and H are interacting quite a bit and getting along well. I don’t see any problem with offering him son’s room as a temporary cost saving option. You just have to do it right.

No pressure.
No sign of expectations.
Decide ahead of time what rules/boundaries you think would be best to have in place.

If it were me, I’d mention the idea casually, after HE brings up the housing issue. I’d also include something like “If you think you’d be interested then let me know and we can discuss it further”. This way he knows you expect to have a say in how it would work out, and aren’t desperate for him to return.

I hope others offer you some advice regarding this issue.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thanks FY- I ended up bringing it up much like you suggested.
He was talking about all the things he needs to work on for new business and I said- " hey by the way, if you need it you can stay in S19's room for a bit until you get on your feet"". He said thanks he may have to stay with someone, either me or friends. I said just let me know. And then we went on to other topics at hand for upcoming kids activities.
He's pretty stressed lately with all the potential changes and figuring out finances- seems to be back in withdrawal a bit. I'm hoping that the lack of choice on having to stay somewhere- which might be at our home- doesn't set him back. But as my DBing has taught me, I can't control that smile
I'll just keep living and helping him where and when I can. I know he sees that I am a constant in the midst of his spinning- the lighthouse on the rock is shining brightly!!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2473105 07/28/14 01:34 AM
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Had a wonderful few days at girls weekend scrapbooking and drinking wine smile
Even scrap booked last year's big vacation with pics of H and I and family and didn't feel down. ( that vacation was 2 months prior to BD and our first trip to Europe. I had quite a bit of resentment about it for awhile thinking why would he go on such a big trip and then walk out- MLC alien ship calling of course).
I found myself even feeling joyful as I spent the few days hanging with friends and documenting family memories.

So I have no idea why on earth I did what I did when I got home but I think I went bonkers for a little while.
After hanging by the pool and cooking food for week and swinging by to see the horse, I sat and read through old emails between H and I over the last few years. I did this once before right after BD and this time my perspective is much clearer as I read them and understand where he was emotionally, but it certainly put me in a more somber mood. Not sad or painful like it used to, so I guess that's good.
I have so many other things I could have been doing though, so I'm not sure what prompted that.
Have only two older kids in house, H dropped off S16 early evening and went to his home and crashed after a full day of ATVing, little two went to beach with friends so maybe the quiet did make me go wacky.

In any case, I have a little bit better understanding of the timing and I think the triggers for H's MLC. Still see him bouncing around but it seems for the most part replay is leaving our lives and he visits Earth with his mind intact much more than he used to.
Now to get myself out of this weird slump and back to my great PMA.....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2473111 07/28/14 02:11 AM
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Hi daring. It's ok to look back, and even to feel sad. Just don't get stuck there.

Originally Posted By: daring

In any case, I have a little bit better understanding of the timing and I think the triggers for H's MLC.


Do tell. What was the trigger, and how long has it been now?

Last edited by ForeverYoung; 07/28/14 02:12 AM.

M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Soooo-
In Aug 2009 I started my practice. In Nov 2009 H ended up closing the company he started ( first one ever, open 2yrs) due to differences between he and his business partner. He joined a company for a month but wasn't happy. Then took 6 months off trying to figure out what he really wanted to do next.
June 2010 he joined a friends company that he respected, but by early 2011 that was acquired by the company he briefly worked for and left in 2009. So he started his own thing again, which went well initially, but by 2013 was running out if funds and acquired by the company he's at now which he hates- and rightfully so they are awful. I actually think the second company might have stayed afloat if he wasn't in such deep MLC and unable to focus.

So the trigger is his career issues that I know he saw as failure (2009)at a time when my practice took off and I was working unbelievable hours from (2010- 2012. Then got more partners and it got better)

Late 2009-2010 I think was denial as he was still reaching out to me and others. 2011 was definitely moving into anger and major personality shifts. I kept saying he was someone I didn't know and I thought it was because of health issues ( diabetes and sleep apnea that he wasn't addressing at the time). A little bit of replay was present in 2011 as well ( Harley in April- after we had agreed it was not good timing- he bought it without asking). Early to mid 2012 was when deep replay happened and the EA took shape as he hired our neighbor to be his assistant. The first bomb was in late 2012- I'm not sure this is going to work, then the I'm going to see a lawyer for a D and we can't work was Sept 2013. I'd say it was at least a year if not two into replay.

So there's my timeline- 2009-2010 is the start.
I know it means nothing as to how much longer he has but it is very interesting to look retrospectively at where I've been and am now.
I would say 2011 and 2012 were the worst years of our marriage- I cried a lot more than I have since BD. Makes me think I processed a lot of the awful stuff even before I really knew what was happening. And I think God had a big hand in how that all went. I was not the wife I could or should have been and had lost myself in the challenges of starting a practice and the negativity of our marriage. I needed to work on me quite a bit and had things played out differently I might not have had the time or the insight to do the work I've done. For that I am thankful.

So as I said in previous post, I see rare replay behavior and more reaching out. Tonight H called at 930 pm to say he was on the way to the grocery store and did I need anything??? I think that was his excuse to check in with the lighthouse smile


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2473481 07/29/14 02:58 AM
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Career dissatisfaction can be a huge trigger for anyone... and even worse for a man when his W's career seems more satisfying/impressive/lucrative than his own. We want to Be The Man!

The good news is work is the rubber ball, that can bounce back. Let him know you are there and believe in him as you allow him to figure his own way through this.

Similar to my sitch, your kitty kitten MLC'er maintains connection and doesn't blame you for his plight. Remain strong and build on this. I believe they'll figure it out eventually.

Have you read 5LL? What is H's primary love language? What happens when you speak it?


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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His LL is physical touch- that's one of the reasons I decided to let intimacy resume between us. It's a tough subject as he substituted sex for love ( his words) rather than including it as a part if love for a long time and acted out in ways that pushed me away. As he began to figure it all out he slipped into MLC and I didn't realize it at the time, so I pulled away emotionally. The cycle of negativity became pretty awful. He did blame me for awhile- interestingly he read 5LL first and told me I wasn't meeting his needs (partially true, and partially not as he was looking to me to fill all of his voids and be responsible for his happiness- when I said I couldn't do that but would work on my issues, it wasn't enough at the time.)
Since BD that cycle has been broken as I discovered DB, de personalized his behavior and forgave and worked hard on my issues. He definitely opens up more when I speak his language, but he is also often guarded.

So weird goings on right now- I'm trying to not let the unknown make me anxious and just let him be. Younger kids are still at beach and so yesterday there wasn't a reason to contact or see each other. I texted him to see if a mtg I have Wed night would interfere with anything he had and he sent me back some joking texts which led to some funny banter back and forth. I was seeing his old sense if humor and thought he was doing ok.
Then last night he texted and said he talked to kids at beach and hope all is well with me.
I texted back a few things and asked if he was doing ok. He said no, but he would be fine. I asked if anything new had happened and he said dunno was just rough day. I told him I was there if he needed an ear or to hang out. He said that meant a lot to him and that I was very patient and caring.
Today I texted to just check on him. He said he was " still here"
and was forcing himself to go out and do things. Then said he just needs to go through all of this he guesses. I offered for him to come to dinner tonight when kids get back. Haven't heard anything yet.
So I don't know exactly what he's going through- and it's so hard because I want to help and know so I don't drum up negative scenarios ( not that I can control any of it, I know that). I just hope he's not moving towards a finality decision on our relationship. Clearly I need to keep working on my detachment.....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2473941 07/30/14 02:45 AM
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Please pardon the temporary interruption of paranoia and insanity, I'm good now.
He texted to say that it was just everything going on and he's trying to work on so many things and none of them are going the way he wants. Then said he's also having moments of overwhelming depression, but he's getting through it.

He's starting to understand that the process and the answers have to occur within him I think. That's good.

Tonight we went to dinner to celebrate neighbor's daughters birthday and the kids arranged themselves so that H ended up sitting next to neighbor ( the EA one). His interactions with her have been different, I don't see the same " connection" that I used to. He even seemed a little uncomfortable and kept getting up to walk around table and talk to kids. I didn't have the "third wheel" feeling I used to get either. Might be my progress but I also think he's much more cognizant.
After dinner he applogized for how the seating arrangements ended up. I've also noticed he makes sure he tells me exactly what's going on in any conversations he has with her and why the conversation needed to occur.

So I have a question for those that have reconciled- how do you deal with the former EA if that person can't possibly be kept out of your lives?
Our kids are best friends and we often do activities together. And quite frankly I actually really like her and think that while she was turning to my H a little too much for help with work and her marriage issues, my H was more enamored with her than vice versa.
Just curious to hear how people are doing who still have the former EA around....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2474728 08/01/14 02:34 AM
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Today was quite a whirlwind.
Had IC last night which stirred up a lot of things with me and I was feeling a bit more emotional. Then didn't sleep well and this morning started feeling physically sick. Started as nausea and then I started feeling very fatigued with chest pressure and sweaty/clammy. Made me very concerned so I called my Cardiologist who had me come right over. ( I see him due to high BP and very bad family history for cardiac disease). My staff walked me over and then I texted H what was going on. He was clearly very worried and said he was on his way. I told him he could wait to see if I needed ER admit but he came anyway.
Cardiac eval was fine but my BPs were sky high. Cardiologist asked me about my stress level and I told him what was going on-'turns out he's dealing with same.
He talked to me about managing my stress and eating/exercise which I told him if been doing very well with and dropped a size and toned up. I switched this week to generic form of my BP med and he thought that might be the main reason for high BP.
So H wouldn't let me drive home, gathered all my stuff and brought me to my house. Then went and filled my new med for me and got dinner for the kids. He hung around until evening making sure I was ok. But he seemed almost mad. I even asked him and he said no he was just worried and has not been sleeping
well himself so he's not communicating well.
After he left he texted asking if I was doing ok- I said yes and thank
You again for your help.
Then he sent a very strange text: "no matter our marital status or who is sleeping in your bed I will always be here. Just need to know what's going on a little more clearly if it's from a distance".
I was very confused. Granted my staff did tell him that I debated letting him know initially and I think that really bothered him.
So I texted back that only the dog was currently sleeping in my bed and I didn't mean to offend him was just thankful. I also asked what info he needed more clearly.
He texted back it's all good, he was reading and it's hard to read context with text messages, especially when we are tired.

So my take on all of this- BP med is getting fixed and hopefully that is bulk of issue. I have been an emotional mess last couple of days and clearly that is impacting my health. On other hand these are issues I need to process b/c they hit my own old wounds from childhood. Need to find a balance on working through them.
With H- he seems very restless. Lots going on with him ( job change,
Not sure when/how much he will be paid as he does startup, has to look for new place to live) but there seems to be more.
The comment on marital status or who's in my bed, he also said in regards to me not letting him know something going on with S16 until later " I know, I get it, I don't live here".
Warning- about to mind read- it's like he's mad that he walked out and that there is more distance. But he's not ready or is too scared yet to change his mind.
Is this a potential part of coming out if the tunnel? He definitely keeps mentioning all the " emotional stuff" he is processing and seems to need to go through.

Could use any advice or observations out there.....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2474824 08/01/14 02:41 PM
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Hi Daring. I’m sorry to hear you were feeling ill. I hope you are doing better soon. It must have felt nice that H showed concern for you.

I know firsthand that the stress of our sitch can drain us, and cause or amplify physical ailments. There was a period early on where I was seeing my doctor for several unexplained aches and pains… and I’ve always been a very healthy person. Please take good care of yourself. What is your exercise program? Good job trimming down. Trying some new activities may help relieve your stress, especially if it involves others. Staying active and meeting new people has really helped me.

Originally Posted By: daring
But he (H) seemed almost mad. I even asked him and he said no he was just worried and has not been sleeping
well himself so he's not communicating well.


Even though he still cares for you, dealing with anyone else’s problems is just too much for him right now. Remember, he’s buried alive dealing with his own schtuff. Very confused, and hurting badly. (thus the not sleeping well)

I think you’re doing well. Just continue to give him space, and let him see that you are more than ok.

I wouldn’t read too much into the strange text. He’ll say weird stuff here and there and then not mention it again, or change his tune later. Our MLC spouses don’t love themselves, and can’t see how we would love them. My W used to tell me I should go find a “real W”. Even point out candidates to me! Thankfully, these comments have long passed.

Quote:
he also said in regards to me not letting him know something going on with S16 until later


Try to meet his needs, but in a reasonable manner. Don’t knock yourself out over it, because it can be a moving target. Just stay your course. You’re the lighthouse, remember!

Quote:
He definitely keeps mentioning all the "emotional stuff" he is processing and seems to need to go through.


This is awareness, a very good thing! Be content with this and believe that he will make it through.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thanks FY for bringing me back to perspective. I had been doing well but I think his increase in spinning and confusion has me a little riled up.
Time to plant my lighthouse back on the rock!

I do a boot camp program that is really more like a family- we do HIIT ( high intensity interval training) which is supposed to be more effective than cardio or weights alone. I try to get there 3 times a week. Our coach is awesome- she focuses on positive mindset, loving yourself where you're at- not just when you've reached a goal, and provides lots of sound nutrition recommendations. It has been great and I find myself wanting to be tortured by my workouts and upset if I have to miss!!

It was really nice that H wanted to help take care of me. He stopped by today as well and bought me a new BP cuff. Is also driving me to work later to pick up my charts and my car.

I so identify with the " find someone deserving of you" comments. Those have decreased significantly but he will still say every once in awhile that I should find someone that's able to make me happy and not so messed up.

His insight is definitely encouraging. He's not looking outward to fulfill his needs nearly as much, but looking inward is still painful. Baby steps.

By the way BP already much better today since switching back to brand name med. Whew!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2475258 08/02/14 06:53 PM
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Well I am not having a very good day. H is clearly upset about his job stuff- they are excluding him from a lot of things and even though he's leaving them soon, it's really hitting his self esteem.
He's very moody, and mainly underlying anger. I can deal with all of that- except even though he's trying to help me with me having been sick this week, he's picking on me and makes " biting" comments here and there.
He hadn't seen an expansion at my work that we opened in Jan, when he did he said how the competition should open something up. I said her are you trying to put me out of business? Then he said " like there's any chance if that happening".
Then he made a sideways comment about how I'm too soft on S16 at the same time that he was letting our daughter out of doing something I had asked her to do. I had left it alone but once he made the comment to me I said really- you want to go there? What just happened with d12?
Then as he was leaving he said his phone wasn't working. I said ok if I have heart symptoms again I'll have s19 take me in. My daughter said- did you really think you were having a heart attack? I said yes- then he said no her heart just needed some attention. I ended up starting to cry and he rubbed my leg saying he was just teasing and left. He called later to apologize which was nice- I told him thank you.
Then today his brother came over with SIL and baby to visit. He had asked yesterday if it was ok.
He got to the house after that did and as soon as he walked in starts giving S7 crap for being on computer, starts cleaning up the kitchen in a big flurry and then finally sits down.
It reminds me of how he was early in MLC though it's clearly not to that level and he does have some insight. Back then one of his big issues was telling me I was a bad mom and not involved enough and I wasn't doing things to help in house as much because I was working so much. ( never mind there were times he traveled for a year straight and I had 4 kids and medical training to handle).
I guess I didn't process all of that hurt fully and while I have forgiven him for it all as I know he didn't mean to be that way, I'm very sensitive right now and I find myself feeling horrible and crying. I don't even want to be around him when he's like this and I'm not sure what to do.
He came to check on me a little while ago and saw me crying, asked what was wrong and I said it's not a short conversation - I'm ok right now.
He's going to keep pestering me and if I tell him he will run b/c he's hurting me and he can't handle it but if I don't say anything than he will keep badgering me until I do. I also feel I need to set a boundary on him" picking" on me and the kids but I'm not sure how to do that either.
Ugggh I don't know why I'm taking all this so personally it [censored]!!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2475287 08/02/14 09:24 PM
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Hi daring,
FY is right about the MLC not being able to handle anyone else's problems. My W, even after leaving, treating me like crap, yelling, spewing, etc. still wants to talk to me about all HER problems. She will go on and on about her health, her dad's health, things at work....but if I say anything about my life that isn't 100% good, she will get upset and not say a word. Even when it come to the D, she seems so surprised that I can't understand that I have to do whatever SHE wants as only her life and her problems matter. Our problems are NOTHING compared to what they are going through (even though it was their choice) and if we complain or have health issues, whatever, they get angry since to them it's nothing compared to what they are going through.

Try to detach from him right now. Try not to let it get to you. Hang in there daring you'll be fine!

Matt165 #2475335 08/03/14 02:39 AM
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I recovered the day pretty well. I feel sometimes like I am the one going crazy lately- I think I may be too attached to H's rapid cycling.
So as expected he asked me an hours yet what was wrong- I said I'm just really nutty and I'm taking things personally that I shouldn't. He said there wasn't anything he had said directly to me today and I said you're right this is my issue. He accepted that answer and then checked in with me later to make sure I was ok.
As much as he maybe grumpy or angry, I know it's not truly directed at me and I have a choice how I respond. If my self esteem is down I take the things he says and does to heart, even if he's teasing. I had done a great job of stopping that before but got caught up these last few days. I'm glad I responded the way I did to him and accepted my part of the issue as it seems to have broken the cycle for now.

So the other thing going on is S12 really doesn't want to go to his house ever. She says it's not home, she doesn't like it and she doesn't want to go. I try to help, and H tells her he deserves to have his time with them too. But at that she it's hard to force it. He's really trying to connect with her- took her out to dinner tonight for some time. She's usually daddy's girl but is really upset at his choices. I mentioned that maybe we need to reconsider the idea of H and I switching off at the main house for time with the kids. He said no- he's not going to have me leave. He knows this is hard one everyone, he just doesn't know anything anymore.
I don't press when he says those things, but the timing and context often seem as though he wants to consider coming home but just doesn't know.
Could be hope on my part but I do think that's in his thoughts he just has no idea how to dig out of the hole he's in.
I'll keep the door open but no pushing- and keep working on my own sanity!!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2475337 08/03/14 02:41 AM
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Oops that was supposed to say d12 in last message.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2475361 08/03/14 04:41 AM
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Wow, your exercise program sounds quite intense, daring. Good job! cool

Do you ever hang out with the others in your group after a session and just talk? I've found doing this to be very helpful for me. Maybe even consider joining another "less intense" group. For example, a hiking or book reading group would offer much more time for verbally connecting with others... something we all need, especially when our spouse is orbiting!

Quote:
I think I may be too attached to H's rapid cycling.


You are, but this is understandable. Your goal now is to not ride his roller coaster. If he goes up 10, you should only go up 5. (or less) When he drops down 10, you drop less than 5, because you're detached... you are the lighthouse! (pssst... here's a little secret... he knows this!)

Back away... he'll still be there.

Quote:
he just has no idea how to dig out of the hole he's in.


None of them do. Yet, many of them will make it. Your goal is to outlast his crisis. It really is up to you.

Quote:
I'll keep the door open but no pushing- and keep working on my own sanity!!


I love this! You got this, daring. smile


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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FY I love the roller coaster analogy of only going up and down half or less- that makes it more doable to imagine I don't have to be perfect just less up and down than him. ( I'm a bit of an overachiever so this gives me a more realistic goal).

I do chat after exercise sometimes but frankly my schedule is pretty tight so adding anything else in is tough. Two of my staff at work are also close friends so that's an opportunity to talk and interact with non- aliens. smile

Interesting happenings today yet again- H was driving me back up to work to pick up my car since I left it the other day when I got sick. He told me he was looking at a house for rent today. I asked if he had found better rent prices and he said yes a little.
Then told me D12 had asked him at dinner about holidays and how that would work. He told her we would figure it out but as she's noticed we've been doing things together as a family most of the time.
Then he said " as my counselor says, I don't know why you don't think you're married- you're just sleeping somewhere else but still do everything as a family". Counselor also suggested to him that if we needed help to figure out the kids so we can move on ourselves we could go to counseling together. He told her no, we don't have an issue there. Then as he's talking to me he said again, it's all just a mess.
Few minutes later he said you've been great, I just want to make sure I acknowledge that. Then as he's dropping me off he said- are you ok with doing the holidays together this year? I said I'm ok with that, at some point it may be too much but for now I'm ok.
Then in my office he asked if I needed anything othr than a new husband- I said I don't need a new husband. He said you obviously do this ones broken. I said I'm broken too. Then he hugged me and said I'm sorry, I really am.

So thoughts on all this- he's acting like he did the two previous times he said he was going to seek a D, like there's no hope. I'm not necessarily fearing the D, I understand that doesn't have to mean the end, I'm more concerned about why he seems to have this downtrodden view. Maybe it's part of the rapid cycling, the progress toward the tunnel exit, or even his own counselors prodding which is sometimes helpful and sometimes not.
He obviously doesn't want to let go completely as he's asking to do holidays together etc. He just seems to be in a place where he thinks he will never get free from and be able to have a relationship. I know this is part of the whole MLC journey but these moments for me are the scariest.
All I can do is keep shining as the lighthouse on my rock and manage my own ebb and flow so that it's not so affected by him.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2475454 08/03/14 06:41 PM
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The roller coaster analogy was from one of the wise vets here. (can't remember who)

Originally Posted By: daring
Then as he's talking to me he said again, it's all just a mess.


Ok, here's the secret to making it through this... You accept the above as your present reality, and realize it won't be like this forever.

Quote:
Then in my office he asked if I needed anything othr than a new husband-
Part of being the Lighthouse, is showing strength. My W used to tell me I should find a new W too, and I once told her:

"Don't you dare tell me what I should want. I can take care of myself, thank you."

And as you know she is still here.

Remember, YOU are the strong steady one in this relationship, H is the one spinning. Use this FACT to your advantage.

Quote:
He obviously doesn't want to let go completely as he's asking to do holidays together etc.


My W makes future plans for "Us" too. This is a good thing. Again, use it to your advantage.


Last edited by ForeverYoung; 08/03/14 06:43 PM.

M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Ok FY- I got this!! smile

Need to stop spinning with him and unhitch my wagon. He's traveling this week so that helps.

I think he's hitting some pretty big emotional " aha" moments. He's seeing the impact on the kids ( before he said they'd be fine because we are good parents).
Yesterday as he was getting ready to leave house I asked what was wrong as he looked down and he said " just everything". Told me to give the kids hugs for the week while he was gone. He started to leave and I said " Hold on- you need a hug". When he let go after a long hug I saw he was crying and I told him to take care of himself and don't let work get him down.
ILY almost came out if my mouth, not on purpose but because it felt natural at that moment, but I didn't say it. Glad I didn't as he needs no pressure/guilt right now.

Time to regroup while he is away. And it's countdown to less than 2 weeks for my girls cruise!! I so need this vacay- wahoo!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2476530 08/07/14 12:03 AM
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Well it has been an interesting week thus far, I believe God is giving me a 2X4 to slow down and take care of myself.
Monday evening I came down with an awful GI virus. Sick all night and in lot of pain. I texted H since he's out of town just to let him know I might go in and would have my mom watch the kids.
He texted multiple times that night and yesterday morning to check on me. By about 2 it got worse again so I had S19 take me to the ER. Got fluids and eval to make sure it wasn't anything else. S19 had just dropped me off and I was fine with that but I guess H gave him a hard time for leaving me there by myself ( that was sweet). H texted and called several more times to check in.
This morning I went back to work but probably shouldn't have- was feeling very weak. H called and said I sounded terrible- I told him I was going to go home in afternoon and rest. He asked if I needed him to come home to help me and I said no I'm good ( again very sweet).
I'm working on feeling better and appreciating that he is being attentive- it makes me feel good.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2476929 08/07/14 11:28 PM
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So- WOW! My H just basically told me he is in MLC.
He's out of town still and has been checking on how I'm feeling.
Then all of the sudden sends a text saying " why is it that MLC has to last the whole middle of my life? I need to find a job I care about again. I need to balance things better".

I sent back a text saying it's not a quick process, I agree that having a job he cares about would help a lot, and that he's working on the balance and it is hard so be kind to himself.
Tried to validate as much as I can but not try to fix it for him. I also said I'm here if he needs to talk. He said thanks but he has no room for feelings right now.

Definitely processing through that MLC tunnel......
Go to the light, go to the light, your W is waiting as your lighthouse on the other side!!! smile


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2476939 08/08/14 12:57 AM
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I'm routing for you daring! I really, really hope he is close and makes it through! This is a very hard time. He is on the edge and things could go either way. My W got there at one point and something stupid and meaningless drove her back deeper into the tunnel and she has never come out. It was probably the death nell of our M. He is still not understanding his feelings, not sure what he wants. He see's his family but he also saw his family before and still bombed you. At the time of the bomb, he probably was so SURE that was what he wanted. Now he isn't so sure but remembers the feeling of being sure. He needs to get to the point of wanting his M and family as much as he didn't want it before. He can get there, just be careful and keep up the good work. You seem to be doing really well. Just be aware that something you think is safe can turn everything around, so be careful!

daring #2476990 08/08/14 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: daring
So- WOW! My H just basically told me he is in MLC.


This IS huge. Yay!

I think you are validating and encouraging H perfectly. Keep it up, but also allow him his space.

Quote:
I also said I'm here if he needs to talk. He said thanks but he has no room for feelings right now.


This is a clue that he wants more space. He knows you are there for him, allow him to come to you. He will.

Matt is correct, H is still likely to flip flop a few times here. Kinda like when he moved back home, and then out again. Don't let this trip you up or send you crashing. Just continue to be the steady rock in his life. The one he still cares for, and continues to feel comfortable enough to confide in.

Oh, and don't forget to leave that light on!

Last edited by ForeverYoung; 08/08/14 03:33 AM.

M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thanks Matt and FY- it's encouraging to see these " breakthroughs" but I know he's not done baking yet.
He has cycled through depression, withdrawal, and old H multiple times in the last 24hrs. I'm trying to just roll with it.

Was funny as I was stressed today about several things going on and he asked me if I wanted help de stressing- with a twinkle in his eye. I knew he meant some adult playtime, which I decided would be good for us both. As we were walking back to my room he said " I know this is confusing, me talking about moving to another house from the one I'm in ( it's too expensive) and then us having these types of moments". I said no- not really- I'm good. ( the concept of friends with benefits kept going through my mind but I didn't let it escape my mouth!)

And I meant it. I'm good for now. As you pointed out a bit ago FY, my new normal is a big mess- but it's where things are at so I'll just have to go with it.

I do notice being all together as family, not just being with the kids, seems to be more his happy place than it used to be.

I'm keeping the light on....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2477503 08/10/14 03:24 AM
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Wow, Dar!!

For him to mention MLC sounds huge! I'm cheering for you!!! Woot woot!!!

I love reading forward progress!

Also keeping in mind what FY said.... About flip flopping and crashing. I'm in that same boat!

Hang tough, Dar!!!!

daring #2477515 08/10/14 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: daring
As we were walking back to my room he said " I know this is confusing..."


Thing is, because you have taken the time to attempt to learn and understand what H is going through, you very likely are less confused than he is. Which is how it should be if you're going to be the lighthouse.

Quote:
And I meant it. I'm good for now.


I'm so happy to hear you say this. Reaching a place of acceptance and peace is so important in all this. It's the only way we'll ever outlast the crisis, really.

Quote:
I do notice being all together as family, not just being with the kids, seems to be more his happy place than it used to be.


So good to hear. Savor every moment. Sock away the good memories. Understand that there will still be some rocky times... and be ok with that.

The more good memories you're able to make now, the more H will continue to see the M as the direction he needs to move.

I hope you've been feeling better.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Well- lots going on over here on MLC land.

H has been back and forth with his moods/depression quite a bit but has still been reaching out. I do think he sees me as the stable one he can turn to more and more.

He's been looking for a new rental to move into next month. I guess he out in an application on one today as he is stressing out about qualifying since current job ends this week. He called me today to tell me it was officially ending Friday.
Then later texted " how are you" which meant he wanted to talk more.
I texted how are you back and that's when he said he put an offer in and it " made him sick to his stomach". I asked about possibility of renting a room until he has continued income, and told him offer still stands to use S19 room for few months if needed as he will be at college. He texts back the way he feels he wants to live under a bridge in Uganda. Poor guy.

Then he texted back and forth a bit saying he just stressed about everything and he never knows if he's doing more harm then good anymore. Then texted "sorry".

Hmmmmm- what I wanted to do was prod that conversation a little more - I.e. Did you realize you made a mistake, do you want to move back with us, etc.
But I didn't. I feel like he is starting to come around and he needs to arrive at those conclusions himself.
So I just texted no need to say sorry I'm here to listen even if he's just working through the thoughts in his head. He said he'd see me Thursday ( he's traveling to speak at conference).

So I think this is all good. He's reaching out and sharing with me. He's rethinking ( yes I'm mind reading- I know) his decisions. And I think being away from this awful job will be good even though there's some unknown.

I'm hoping me being out of touch next week doesn't hurt things but I soooooo need this vacation free of the stress of all if this! 5 days until cruise.....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
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And in today's news..... H started an R talk and told me he loved me. But he still has a ways to go so I have no expectations ( and I told him so).

I was having a hard day with stuff at work that's stressing me. H just got back from traveling and hasn't found a house yet so may need to take me up on offer of S19 room. I told him I wasn't going to let him sleep in the street.
Then he said " we have a strange relationship". I said why? He said most people in our situation don't get along as well as we do. He said I know we have our issues, and that I ( as in him) am emotionally unstable right now, but this is unusual. I knew he went to IC today so I asked if that was according to his counselor or him. He said both- then told me she mentioned she only knew one other couple who was able to continue like this and get along and talk about anything. He also said he likes it smile.

So then there was some discussion about other stuff and I'm not even sure how we got there but he was joking about a girlfriend and I said oh- really? He then said" I just wish I was emotionally in a place to have a healthy relationship". I said understandable, but I've also decided everyone's crazy and just have to figure out how to meld your crazies and make it work. He said agreed, he just has to figure out how to get over his own hurts. Then he said " Where do you think this is going?" I said I really don't know. I've decided this is where we are at right now and I have no expectations and we will have to see. He almost seemed bothered by that response. ( mind reading- did he want me to open the door more???)
Then he said " I just want to focus on maintaining this sort of closeness and the relationship we have now. I also don't have expectations of you because I know I'm still emotionally in a place where I would hold you accountable for unfair unmet expectations". I said ok.

Then some talk about no matter what happens, blah blah blah. Though I do see a subtle shift in that us working out versus not seems to be just slightly favored in his words compared to previously.
Then he said even if you date or I date, if this doesn't work out, I think we can maintain this closeness.
I said well I disagree. He seemed surprised. I said if I get to a place where I decide to date or move on, I'm going to devote my efforts to that relationship. He processed that and said- ok that's understandable.
Then he said well I guess that could happen anytime. I said no not right now. Then he said of course it can you're beautiful. I said that doesn't matter.
He said sure- someone could try for months and keep wooing you and win your heart. I said no they couldn't- I'm not looking for anyone to fill a void. I'm ok where I'm at right now, and I make the decision whether I let anyone in.
He seemed almost a little relieved ( or maybe I'm hoping).

I thought about saying I wouldn't date b/c I'm technically still married and it's wrong ( which is true) but he wouldn't see that as being because I want him, in his depressed state he would just think I was trying to do the right thing to stick to my own values.
I also thought about saying no one could win my heart because he already has it. But he is in such a delicate place I don't want to push him away and thought that might be too much.

Then he was being flirty and suggestive and said- I also don't want to spend time with you just trying to fill a void. I want to be with you and have closeness because I want to and I'm thinking about it in the right ways. I told him I know, I've seen that change and I don't feel that he's " using" my affection in any way.

Throughout these conversations he hugged me twice in a very gentle loving manner.

I'd say this is pretty amazing progress. He is gaining lots of insight. He's trying to do right by me in how he approaches any type of relationship. For the first time in a long time he also said we have a connection/relationship outside the kids. ( he used to say he felt I wanted to be with him only because of the kids and outside of that there was no us).

Clearly he still has some processing to do but I'm encouraged.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2479254 08/15/14 05:13 AM
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Daring, this sounds so positive!! You seemed to hold your ground very well. I especially liked what you said that you 'make the decision whether to let anyone in'.

He is making some observations and seems to be processing....but still some odd comments, yes? I couldn't find anywhere in this thread, but does your H have ow? I hope not and that you're one of the lucky ones smile.

IMHO I don't think opening the door more would make much difference here. It seems he knows you're still there for him, at least for now.

Shining #2479255 08/15/14 05:18 AM
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Wow, this is all very good, no?

I agree with Shining about opening the door more making not much difference. You need to be honest with him and honest with yourself. He knows how you feel, no need to pain the walls with it, right?

You are doing really, really well. It seems like he's making some changes and effort, too, but I understand you wariness.

Hang in there and keep us posted!


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Ss06 #2479572 08/16/14 02:50 AM
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Shining and Ss- thanks for the encouragement and the advice.
Sometimes I get so excited about positives I over analyze when really I just need to be myself and let it unfold.

Shining there is no OW, though there was an EA with our neighbor/friend/H's employee for 2 years from 2012 to earlier this year.
That was hard enough and I thoroughly admire those of you dealing with a PA/OW. I don't know that I would he strong enough to deal with that.
That said this person he had an EA with will always be in our lives as our kids are best friends and they live next door.
It gets complicated some days as I am friends with her too and I know it wasn't an on purpose thing- they just started leaning on each other emotionally when marriage troubles were going on. But I know I'm still guarded around her.

So next week I am off to my much needed girls cruise. H is going to stay at my (our) house for the week with S19, S16, andS7.
I will get some much needed relaxation and break from the drama- and maybe H will get a taste of all the little things he misses with the kids. Even though he is over a lot and they periodically stay with him- the interactions aren't the same.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482163 08/24/14 05:10 PM
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Back on land from the awesome cruise vacation- I so needed it!!
I noticed a day or so in how much more relaxed I felt being away from all the stress. Even on " good" days at home I didn't realize how much if a toll this was all taking on me emotionally.

Driving back home now and hoping I'm recharged enough to continue this MLC marathon! Got a welcome home text from H this morning. At least it's a nice start!

Going to catch up on others threads over the next few days. Hope all are doing well.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482167 08/24/14 05:31 PM
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Back on land from the awesome cruise vacation- I so needed it!!
I noticed a day or so in how much more relaxed I felt being away from all the stress. Even on " good" days at home I didn't realize how much if a toll this was all taking on me emotionally.

Driving back home now and hoping I'm recharged enough to continue this MLC marathon! Got a welcome home text from H this morning. At least it's a nice start!

Going to catch up on others threads over the next few days. Hope all are doing well.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482186 08/24/14 07:05 PM
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Back on land from the awesome cruise vacation- I so needed it!!
I noticed a day or so in how much more relaxed I felt being away from all the stress. Even on " good" days at home I didn't realize how much if a toll this was all taking on me emotionally.

Driving back home now and hoping I'm recharged enough to continue this MLC marathon! Got a welcome home text from H this morning. At least it's a nice start!

Going to catch up on others threads over the next few days. Hope all are doing well.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482268 08/25/14 03:09 AM
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Wow- back from vacation today and there is much to report already.

H had the three boys while I was away and apparently had a really rough week ( due to other stuff- more on that later) but still cleaned, did laundry and grocery shopped for me before I got home today. That was really thoughtful!!

So I noticed he didn't seem too good emotionally and finally we had an opportunity to talk. I didn't push- just said is there anything I can help with?
Then everything started spilling out. He was stressed about call regarding our back taxes and how we were going to pay everything on time. ( especially since he has no job right now and has to figure out living arrangements). Then the biggie- some events this week triggered some memories from his military time he didn't remember until now. Thankfully he was able to keep it together with the kids but said he became physically ill and was in horrible mental anguish. He went to his counselor the next day and the thought is he definitely has some PTSD. He continued to share and then said- " I have no answers about anything- I don't know what to do about us, I don't know about work or where to live. I haven't felt such emptiness and pain in so long". I didn't say much, just nodded and said that sounded awful and did he want a hug. He fell into me and I just held him while he cried ( I cried too- he was clearly in so much pain). Then after some time of holding him it progressed to ML that was clearly an opportunity for him to connect emotionally and he just hugged me silently after.

Later we were having more conversations about our taxes and trimming some expenses etc. It got a bit stressful and he stopped and said- " I have no idea what's going to happen with us and I'm not planning one way or other. The desperation you hear is a weeks worth of fear of eventually being alone with no home or money and I'm probably not communicating well so try not to let this stress you." I stopped and held his hand and said ok, thank you for clarifying. I won't let you be homeless.
Then he said well S19s room isn't going to be available because he's coming home more often. Later I said to him that we could figure something out and convert one of the other rooms if need be. He said I might need to do that for a bit, but I want to do it the right way.
He seemed very pensive and introspective but not in a foggy way, in a things are becoming more clear way.

So this is all extremely positive, and I have a great deal of compassion for him right now given everything he is dealing with. I had no idea about the PTSD and I'm sure the MLC tunnel is bringing much of this forth for him to work through. Right now I just want to help him and make sure he knows I'm here as a friend no matter what. It's hard to stay detached when these things happen, but I know I still have to balance hope with no expectations. Whew this is hard!

I will certainly say some prayers for H tonight. Feel free to throw some in too- he needs them.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482458 08/27/14 09:22 PM
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Don't know where it went, FY, but I did see your last post to me.
Lighthouse with benefits- I was cracking up! Just might get a t-shirt with that on it!!!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482459 08/27/14 09:23 PM
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Don't know where it went, FY, but I did see your last post to me.
Lighthouse with benefits- I was cracking up! Just might get a t-shirt with that on it!!!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482529 08/28/14 01:13 AM
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Hahaha, I'm glad you liked it. Probably just got lost during the forum downtime.

It looks like none of my past threads got trashed. Good thing too... sometimes I need to go back and read just to remember what all happened the last 2 years!


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
daring #2482534 08/28/14 01:31 AM
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Ok a very unexpected text R talk was just started by H.

I'm going to copy and paste what's been said thus far as I'm waivering back and forth where I'm going with this and I don't want to screw up.....

H: Just so you know. I might be broken forever... I keep trying... I do love you.. I'm just always going to be a mess I think

Me: I don't think you'll always be a mess to this degree. But I've really decided everyone is a mess. And I love you too even if you're messy and broken, just like I've learned to love myself as messy and broken.
But don't feel like I'm putting expectations on you as I'm not. Focus on healing yourself and I'll help where I can.

H: You don't... I put them on me. I can't heal myself. I need a partner... Somehow I can let you in partially but not fully... I'm working on it...
But I may never fix it.. I can't be any more honest than that... I'm just broken there.

Me: I understand. Interestingly that is what those iMAGO books are about. That you ultimately need a partner to heal.
I don't think you should focus on letting me in but on loving yourself. That's how I was able to start embracing that vulnerability more with you.
Do you think you can let someone else in fully?

H: I think ultimately i need to let someone in. I know I do better in a relationship. I require affection (give and receive). I need to love fully in all the ways I can. And to learn new ones too. We started in the right place you and I. We did really well given our circumstances too... I'm just shattered in many ways right now. I'm trying to balance that too.
Oddly enough it's not like supermodels are lining up to let me try.

Me: Wow- how odd that they are not lining up- you are pretty cute smile
Ummmm no- I'm not going to help you find anyone new, especially a supermodel!
I think I went through what you are a few years back and you followed on the heels of my breakdown.
You may not be able to let anyone in until you start working on things in a relationship, I don't know.
It seems like you are not at a place for doing that yet- there are some other wounds that need processing first and you need someone to lean on through that. I'm willing to be there to help.


So here's my issue- I go back and forth between getting frustrated and thinking fine already- go find someone and figure your [censored] out!! And thinking that he seems to be reaching out, looking for safety, love and support.

Anyone have any thoughts?


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482535 08/28/14 01:34 AM
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He is definitely reaching out!!! Validate, listen, don't make promises right now. Be there!

You're rocking this!


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
Ss06 #2482595 08/28/14 03:34 AM
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Remember what the vets tell us, daring. We can't fix 'em. Our spouses have to figure it out themselves, it's the only way it'll stick.

My humble advice: Give H more time and space. Get yourself another patience shovel and try not to whack him with it.

H is in depression, and feels hopeless. The times my W was in that position and reached out to me like your H did I would tell her I had faith that she would figure it out... and then do my best to back off and leave her to it.

The better you are doing on your own, the more attractive you will be. But it has to be REAL, not a show... They can tell the difference. This is why the vets tell us to focus on our life.

I still see a lot of positives in your sitch. If you're gonna look at him, look at that!

Have confidence in yourself, you can do this. You ARE doing it!


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thanks for the support and perspective Ss- I'm trying.

FY- you're right, I went into fix it mode. Ackkkkk! I need to wack myself with the patience shovel!
I get very discombobulated when he says those particular things as that usually follows a few days later with the thought that he's never going to be able to figure it out and mentions the D word. It's not that I don't think I would be ok, I would be fine and I am doing fine, it just sends me on that d@mn roller coaster and takes me a minute to regroup.
The conversation continued and I'm hoping I didn't say to much. It came up that any attempt at working this out would require starting a new relationship. He wanted details on how that would happen. So I told him it would require starting with a beginners mind, smile and talked about what I had learned from my mistakes and what I need to focus on differently. I said I couldn't speak for him on that.
Maybe it will scare him, maybe not. But he asked so I sent back a short blurb.
He said he wanted to get some sleep and reread and respond to things.

Your opinion is always welcome FY- thanks. I'll back off now and just listen and validate.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2482737 08/28/14 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: daring
I'll back off now and just listen and validate.


Now you're talking. Or would that be not talking?

When people are in crisis the mistake they often make is thinking that they have to come to some resolution, one way or the other, ASAP. As LBS's we can get trapped in that way of thinking too. But Michele teaches us that having our M in a holding pattern for a bit is ok. Even better than ok if one or both partners are in crisis. We just have to learn to accept it as being ok!

One of my comments to W back when she really wanted to run was "Let's just see what happens". <<< no expectations, no pressure.

She's still here, and present.

It's often said that spouses in crisis are spinning. I'm pretty sure you can see why!

They have to steady themselves before they are able to fully accept our love.

Last edited by ForeverYoung; 08/28/14 04:08 PM.

M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
daring #2482741 08/28/14 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: daring
FY- you're right, I went into fix it mode. Ackkkkk! I need to wack myself with the patience shovel!


Don't whack yourself too hard, you're learning. My mistake was ending up in "convincing mode" any time we had a R talk. I'm better now but still have to be careful. You can't convince 'em back!

Last edited by ForeverYoung; 08/28/14 04:11 PM.

M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Quick update- not much to report but need to vent just a little bit....

I've been working like crazy so didn't get home until late last night. H didn't mention the " text R talk" at all and I just left everything alone as well.
After bringing kids back from dinner he said he had to go to his house and clean and pack b/c they are doing an inspection on Fri. He said he figured they will let him know if he needs to move out this weekend. ( he's got a month left on lease but trying to get out early since he has no job now, they keep going back and forth).

I said " ok do we need to make some plans for you?", he said " I have no plan. I figure I have so much travel over the next 6 months for speaking engagements and potential consulting work I might not need a plan."

Oh really? So you have no home, no job, if I hadn't kept all our accounts joint right now you would also have no way to eat or front some of your travel until you get reimbursed, ( to be fair he is being frugal though) but it's ok to not have a plan and have me to fall back on even though you have disrupted our whole household and lives.....

But don't worry- I said none of that- I said " oh, ok". And then STFU.

It's not my nature to truly pull the rug out from under him, though in a very hurt state I may say or do something like that temporarily. I have grown and know that doing those things only hurts me, and I actually feel a little guilty for having these feelings, but I'm frustrated and low on reserve since I'm working MORE than usual to try and pay down our back taxes. I need some grown up support for my own stresses too!

There are some days it seems like he wants to come home but is scared. At least he's not trying to run away anymore, he's just avoiding.
I'll just add him to the list of teenagers in my life for now and hope he keeps moving forward slowly.....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2483801 09/01/14 05:39 AM
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R talk alert, again......

Don't even know where to start- H kept saying he wanted to talk. I left it up to him to start. So tonight he started talking about our previous text R conversation as well as what he would do when his lease is up as far as where to live etc. He talked about potentially staying in our house ( other room) for a little bit but if he does that it needs to be short term b/c if he comes back to house it should be to fully come back, and it would be too confusing for everyone..... Etc

Then kept talking about how he felt like he needed to make a decision, so that everyone could move forward. I threw out a couple truth darts about how everyone was still going to have some confusion and turmoil no matter which direction things went, and that I didn't need him to make a decision for me to move forward, I would be fine no matter what and if there came a time that I felt decision needed to be made I would make it but for now I'm ok where things are. He talked about how he is learning about how much all his past ( childhood, military career especially) affected him and how some of our issues made those triggers worse. He knows he has to keep working on them and that any new relationship would also have issues.

He seemed to focus a lot on D, that he still had too much hurt and knew he wasn't ready to come home yet, that he would just screw things up. But then talked about how he loves me and he can't escape his heart and he knows D doesn't fix everything and make the hurt go away. I again mainly listened, but did use a play from Raine's book and tell him he'll never find the depth of connection with anyone else he has with me, and he agreed. But then also said he's not in a place he can give all of himself to me and so it's better not to do halfway.

I did get a little emotional when his EA came up and we talked through some of it. He was no longer defensive at all like he used to be. He asked me some questions about what I was feeling and I explained that I was working on it but took a hit to my self esteem b/c I felt like I wasn't worth being with or was second choice. He said it was never about me it was the emotional distance between us at the time and his need for affection and attention, and he's still scared he would mess up again if we hit a rough patch. I said I understand it wasnt about my own worth, but it's not a logical thing I need to process it's the emotions of it, just like his issues. I also told him there are no guarantees, I get that. He agreed that some things make logical sense but our emotions take over. Early in the process of his distancing ( aka MLC) he got to a point that if he didn't make me happy, he felt he was worthless, if I didn't want to ML he was worthless, and on and on. I again validated and said I understood. He also asked if in regard to his EA was there anything he could do to help me process it. I said sometimes when we talk it seems you don't agree you took it too far. He paused for a moment, and said based on his first reaction to my statement he could see why it seemed that way. Then he looked in my eyes and said " I'm sorry. I was wrong. I took things too far". I thanked him for that and made sure to reiterate that I know I did much to contribute to the distance between us that led to that opportunity.

He talked about how amazing I have been and that he wants to raise these kids with me together. He said he knows he spends an awful lot of time with us at the house and obviously enjoys it. ( his counselor frequently tells him he's still married he's just sleeping in a really expensive hotel at night).

He asked about if we were D could we still have the same relationship we do now and could he still come over and see kids if he only has a tiny apt where there isn't room for them.
I said I'll never keep you from kids so we can figure things out for that piece, but as far as us I don't know. I think our interactions would significantly change. ( of course who am I kidding- a long as there was no OW I would still stay as close to him as I am now. At least initially. But I'm not telling him that).

There was so much more to this conversation but the gist is as above. It's like he wants to take the leap to try again but is too fearful. His talking was often focused on ending it but his actions ( body language, eyes, gentle touches between us) spoke much love and desire.
And of course at the end of the 2 HOUR! talk, we ML.
I was snuggling him after and I said something about a " next time",
And he said " there will always be a next time". I'll take that as he's not ready to let go of me yet wink


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2483889 09/01/14 05:07 PM
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Daring,
You are making many good choices. Your h is picking up on that support that you are providing. I think you guys are moving in the right direction.

Keep giving him his space and encourage him. Don't forget to believe none of what they say and only 1/2 of what they do...body language speaks volumes!

Good luck!


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
Atsbaby #2483993 09/01/14 10:25 PM
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Thanks Atsbaby- I can use the positive reinforcement for sure!

I'm venting here so I don't do something stupid. For the first time since separation- we are having a pool party BBQ. Was H's suggestion. Includes neighbors and friends from H work- we used to do this almost every weekend. It includes our neighbor who was EA ( if you haven't read my thread much- I really like her- our kids are best friends).

I'm slightly tipsy, and feeling pretty frustrated. Was a big emotional mess this morning already after our talk yesterday.
Now seeing neighbor ( former EA) and her husband snuggling and reconnecting, also H's friends from work that are sort of my friends too being romantic. And I'm annoyed. Really? If you don't know what you want then fine- go figure it out. If it's easier to start over go for it- good f'n liuck. If it's not worth working on b/c it's too painful for you even though I've walked through the pain- fine. I'm ready to just find someone who doesn't run when it's hard.

I know that's probably not the absolute truth, and this is a tough situation given the get together, recent talks and current alcohol consumption. But it's where I'm at.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2484236 09/02/14 04:20 PM
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Ok I'm better now, regained my composure.

H and I both talked some after the BBQ about how it was hard for both of us to see the "couple time" people were having. I got a little emotional again ( stupid alcohol!) about some things I was still working through. H was awesome, berry supportive and wanted to understand how I was feeling and what my thought processes were. He checked in on me this morning to make sure I was ok.

I also forgot to mention that the other day when he had the R talk and was saying he didn't know which way he was going to go, he also talked about how I was his best friend ( a lot) and he also went to Home Depot that day to get things to fix up some house issues.
I need to dig deep and keep working on me. There are a lot of positives here. Need to focus on those and just be still ( as Job always tells people).

Glad I have this board to vent on though- kept me from reacting in a more if the same way and allowed for fruitful interactions.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2484616 09/03/14 01:00 PM
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Back to stressed out and distant H last night.
I came home and he was fixing my leaky toilet but was very distracted and seemed upset. I asked if he was ok and he said no- but I will be. I left it alone after that.
I know he had IC yesterday, and we've had some pretty intense days lately. He's also trying to start a new company and still needs to figure out where to live etc. trying not to mind read- could be any number of things that have nothing to do with me/us.

So on a separate note- time to refocus on me. Going to boot camp today, have my IC, and D12 bday is this weekend so need to finish shopping for her.

Ahhhh I feel so all over and still react to/sucked in by H's moods. Working on more detachment- I know it's a process.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2484930 09/04/14 02:50 AM
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Well, now I know why H suddenly shut down- he was bothered by the fact that I had been drinking at the BBQ and then got emotional. He did at least say that he recognized this was more about his own issues surrounding alcohol ( childhood bad experiences with alcoholic grandparents) that are being triggered and he hasn't dealt with yet and he was trying to manage his negative reaction.

I didn't try to defend myself though I did remind him that the whole BBQ was emotional in regards to who was there and all the memories it triggered. He agreed with that. I asked him to just tell me if he's upset but he said he was trying to be sure he had the right words and approach.

As my counselor said today- this is his issue to work through. Just as mine are my own. I need to be sure and not "own" any projection onto me from his past hurts.

Refocusing on me- letting him be.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2485266 09/05/14 12:54 AM
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So I feel like I've been posting to myself a lot lately..... Anyone out there? I could definitely use some input.

Since H and I had our convo yesterday when he was upset with me- I have had some (repeat) realizations..... Seems like every few months I get the aha- this is done, time to back off.
So I recognized from our conversation that just because he seems like the old H more often and has quite a bit of insight- HE'S STILL COOKING! ( caps meant to remind me).
He may be able to see some of his issues, he may start to have more feelings for me and question if he really wants to leave- but he still isn't able to handle his unresolved issues when they are triggered and he sure as h3!! can't have any compassion for me right now- nor should I expect it. ( duh! I knew that but I got sucked in again.....)

So how I feel for today is that I need to pull back and not spend so much family time with him- not b/c I'm trying to get a reaction from him or show him what he's missing, but because I need a break. I'm getting too emotional again, the evolving reconnection made me drop my guard and look for mor


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2485268 09/05/14 12:57 AM
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Oops posted too early-

Was supposed to say I started looking for more than I should have.

I'm still the lighthouse, but going to plant myself on a further away island for a bit and focus on me.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2485278 09/05/14 01:34 AM
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Hey, daring,

I'm here, been checking up on you.

It does sound like your H is still cooking in his little E-Z-Bake oven.

Sometimes those contraptions don't cook evenly--he's probably still gooey in the center even though he's getting a bit burnt on the edges!

What you said about your interactions triggering unresolved issues is so true.
I know that when GUBU goes off on me, it's all about HIM and how he is interpreting what I said--not about what I really said, because since DBing, I am watching everything that comes out of my mouth there is really not much for him to react to.

So he reacts negatively to me being:

Distant
Friendly

Having too much fun/enjoying life without him
Seeming down/sick/tired

Needing his help
Not needing his help

Looking sleepless and ragged/skinny
Looking hot and dressed up

Talking too much
Not talking enough

Not reaching out to him
Reaching out to him

Responding warmly to his communication
Not responding warmly...


It's like, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

He wants to dislike me and I'm making it really hard for him.

I like myself more now that I ever did!

My patience with my own oven is wearing thin, but you know, they're from the '60s so they're not exactly energy-efficient!

You hang in there because you ARE the prize!


---GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



daring #2485280 09/05/14 01:41 AM
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Daring, I'm following you, even if I don't post....not the most qualified to offer advice, especially when it comes to pursuit and distance dancing.... I'm in the thick of the same stuff you are.

I agree, though, that distance is best. I'm still learning myself, but for what I know, nothing we do now is real connection until they come through the full tunnel. I've not read one post on this board that recommended someone pursue and get closer to their WAS before the very end, and even then, they say to keep a distance.

I feel you, though. I am grieving and missing my old H. When I see glimpses, especially tears, I fall apart. But he is still running. He is still confused. My guess is yours is, too. The best thing is to get out of his way as much as possible, and allow him to figure this out on his own.

Shining #2485299 09/05/14 02:25 AM
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Oops... seems that darn patience shovel almost slipped out of your hands there for a moment, daring! Better order the kevlar reinforced, DB approved MLC gloves with Kung Fu grip.

I want you to go to the chalk board and write 500 times "I Can't Fix Him, gosh diddley darn it"

I'm glad you've decided to give H more space and time. It truly is the right thing to do. One day he may even thank you for this gift.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Shining #2485303 09/05/14 02:28 AM
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Thanks GGG and Shining- I think I was just feeling a little lonely.

GGG your list cracked me up- I think I might make one of my own to see all the contradictory things that pi$$ H off depending on the day!

Shining I agree about us trying reconnection, it seemed like he was the one doing that b/c he was really sharing with me and talking about wanting to come home but not quite being ready and then-BAM!- something related to his unresolved issues occurs and he ran back to the comfort of the tunnel.

I'm emotionally exhausted- which means I need to take time for me and let his gooey center bake! ( my irritation with him right now wants to refer to it as a wu$$y center but when I step back I know he's in pain so I'll let it go).

Thanks again for posting- I needed a little love smile


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2485304 09/05/14 02:36 AM
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FY we were posting at the same time!
That patience shovel tried to run away and leave me thinking there was progress! Had I been in my right mind I would have known that BBQ, plus H, plus people with whom I like but are in parts of the story I don't like, plus alcohol, plus sun......
Geez I think I fell and hit my head on the shovel!!

Well lesson learned- and apparently one I needed to put me back on the "time and space track".

I will definitely order those gloves FY, they can double as workout gloves for swinging the 25lb kettle bells when I'm irritated like I did yesterday.
Today I did boot camp and swung them some more!!

I think I might be a little all over the place also b/c I'm coming up on a year since the big BD- Sept 14. I'm thinking a spa day with maybe a hot male masseuse is in order. But no hanky panky- I'm still married and standing smile

Thanks FY- you always make me smile!!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2485707 09/06/14 02:42 PM
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Today's focus is D12 who as of today is D13. Aack I have a teenage daughter!!
Having her friends over and doing a trip to the mall and dinner. H will be there too but that's fine- these kinds of things should be like that.

As for the last couple of days I've done well- H was here when I got home yesterday but I was very nonchalant and he still seemed distant but not as bad as before. He decided to go back to his house early ( around 7) as the kids and I were all doing our own thing. That worked for me- I'm enjoying the much needed space and actually want it.

Hoping this means my detachment journey is progressing......


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2485796 09/06/14 11:20 PM
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Here I fix it for you

I cannot fix him gosh diddly darn it.

There job done, I have the same issues, who would have thunk it a kids who can sit and wait while the chook lays and egg cannot wait to see what happens!

I know those dismantling things, I'm doing said same, but he's dragging his feet. Which is odd seeing as he with his soul mate and done crispier than dryer up chips.

He did say at the mediation session he made a decision and by just ignoring me I would somehow know. Sigh.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Ggrass #2485900 09/07/14 04:02 PM
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Thanks Ggrass- clearly I need some help in rembering I can't fix it and can't take any comfortable interactions as a sign that we are progressing.

D13s birthday was good overall. H and I had distant and weird interactions, partially because I was feeling distant.

This was my journaling yesterday:

I am so angry today! Ever since his reaction the other day to my getting emotional and my realization of the fact that I have worked my arse off and put so much into all of this and he can't even begin to have compassion for me, I have been irritable.
I hate it b/c I'm irritable with the kids and pushing them away, irritable with H and feeling very inadequate and down on myself.
Today him coming over and launching into finances really caught me off guard too. Sent my mood worse. He asked earlier if I was ok and I said no- told him the impromptu finances stressed me. He apologized saying the apartment issue ( he's been denied b/c of some old bill none of us recognize) and this leftover bill made him think his dad was using credit again and he got stressed too. ( finances are one of his issues, H's dad gambled and often there was no money for food or utilities. His dad also used his kids credit and even our sons to gain loans etc)

Also him bringing up melting pot as an option for for D13 birthday dinner like we did last year really got to me too. B/c next day was BD. And the days before it when D13 and I were in Colorado were hurtful the way he was ignoring me.
Maybe I focused so much on myself in the beginning if this and what I did wrong or needed to work on that I haven't processed all the crap he did.....
Was thinking at mall today all the clues through the years about him needing to work through things- the " disappearing" money early on that was supposedly for a dress that never materialized, hiding going to a movie from me and lying about it, the one night affair with our friend, the porn, the off and on money irresponsibility, the emotional affair and abandonment, and here we are......
What should I do next to help heal? And how do I say I need him to not be around as much when I do want this M to eventually work but right now I need way more space than I even did last week. And is it b/c I took too many steps back with the BBQ on Labor Day or is this a natural part of the process and I just got overwhelmed by the amount of processing that's occurring???

I'm not in a good place emotionally this weekend. I think I might be having a depressive episode. Time to regroup, exercise a lot, eat well, read, connect with kids and reclaim my seal esteem.
I can do that in a week, right??? B/c 1yr BD is a week from today and I do not want to be an emotional mess!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2485979 09/07/14 11:22 PM
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Yeah, I know where your at this weekend was a depressive episode for me.

Tears etc. don't think I've ever cried this much in my whole life. It's a tough shirt to wear.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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Ggrass I hope it passes quickly for you- strangely I felt like I cycled from depression to acceptance all in one day today. Of course we will see how I feel about all of this tomorrow smile

So the big D came up again today. I had a feeling H was leaning that way lately. For once it did not cause my heart to jump in my throat and feel like I was panicking- yay me!
So strangely I feel almost relieved- not because I want our M to dissolve, but more because it seems this may be his only way back and I can really see that.
He started the conversation by talking about trying to get this new apartment and setting up a schedule for the kids. Then moved into saying that Monday ( our BBQ when I was drinking and got emotional) affected him in much greater ways than he's ever realized. He also said to me that it was his issue and I did nothing wrong. I told him I understand, I had the same issues surrounding sex and didn't realize how extensive until I started working on them. Then he said finances is also a big issue and he knows that too.
He doesn't want to drag me through two years of heartache and pain and us end up hating each other. He said he would rather remarry me and do it right after he works through his chit. He knows I'm willing to work through it all with him but thinks he won't do it right then- he needs to rely on himself and regain his own identity. He feels that he has to reset and rebuild the foundation of himself and us. He said he knows I will need to treat him differently at first but hopes we can work through that. I said maybe I'm impeding your progress. He said you're still my best friend, and my feelings don't change- I just don't want to be angry at you for my own stuff.
Then he made a joke and I said are you trying to change the subject- he started to break down with clear pain in his face and said " I'm trying to be here the best I can".
I reached out and touched his leg to offer comfort- and then before he left he hugged me and said we are going to have the weirdest divorce ever.
Then said he was going to go to his house and throw up. He's actually more upset about the conversation than I am.
Am I finally progressing to detachment???

So here are my thoughts- maybe he will be like reaching higher's H and decide he can't go through with D at the 11th hour. Or maybe he will go through with it. Either way he really seems to recognize some of the key issues and the depth to which he needs to address them. And even if we D, I think we can maintain a healthy friendship and maybe that's how we find our way back to each other. And if not- I will be ok. And I will have remained true to my authentic self.

Hope I still feel peaceful in the morning but I imagine this is going to be a roller coaster still.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2486013 09/08/14 02:17 AM
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Oh my goodness, there are so many of us being so emotional this weekend! I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the appearance of the full moon?

Daring,
I'm sorry your H is still on the D kick. I completely understand. I think that is the way my M is going to have to go frown

I hope your D enjoyed her b-day. Good luck with the teenager! I still have a couple years, whew!

I'm praying that you have a good day tomorrow. It's nice to have those once and awhile.


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
Atsbaby #2486341 09/09/14 02:37 AM
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Well I made it through today pretty well. Was feeling a bit emotional this morning but then had very busy day at work so not much time to think about the recent conversation about D.

When I came home H had taken care of some errands kids needed and chatted with me about driving/carpooling schedule for schools ( they are all in different ones- ugggh!). He said something that irritated me and I wasn't ugly to him but I didn't try to hide my frustration. He sensed it and said maybe he's not communicating well, hasn't really slept much and was going to head back to his house.

It's good to not walk on eggshells and be able to show irritation ( reasonably) as before I tried so hard to avoid any conflict. Maybe that's a benefit of becoming more detached. And his response was quite reasonable too.

One day at a time....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2486346 09/09/14 03:08 AM
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Yeah, it's been a weird day, for sure! One good thing, is he doesn't seem to be spewing any anger or anything. The fact that he took it back onto himself with the communication comment is kinda nice.

You go on with your detached self, daring!! You're doing great!

Shining #2487163 09/11/14 01:03 AM
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Doing pretty ok the last few days.
H got his apartment which I'm glad as I know he was stressed and now he'll have a place to live and that he can bring the kids. Funny that yesterday he tells me he's all moved in when he hadn't even told me he got it ( granted it was just the previous night that his app was accepted).

I'm kind of in a whatever mindset- I'm even looking at some meetups and social activities to do when I don't have the kiddos. We will see how things go- I still have hope but I deserve to have an H that has "done the work" as much as I have and is ready to do the rest together. If and when he gets there, maybe I'll still be interested. It's freeing the way I feel- I'm not worried I might upset him or he will feel unloved if I back off. He's seen my changes and the work I've done. Now it's up to him.

This is weird- I guess it's what lovingly detached feels like? Hope it lasts.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2487168 09/11/14 01:23 AM
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Just caught up on your thread. I think you are doing great.

I think it is normal to struggle with acting normal around the MLC. We are so afraid of showing any irritation in our mood we become like clones of humans.

It's a good sign if you can be relaxed and be yourself.

Second - your h is totally gas lighting you , most of this whole thing has nothing to do with you and if you were drinking and emotional. And whatever other charges he claims - this is all about him.

He was prob upset on Labor Day cause his EA was being affectionate with her h.

That said I think you have a good chance for R if that is what you want because his EA is unavailable.

Do whatever you can to stay focused on yourself- boot camp and therapy are great. I also highly recommend alanon


----
M 39
H 35
D5,D4
M 4
T 9
ILYBNILWY 5/18/11
Left 7/11/11
Divorced 12/1/13

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BK- thanks for the encouragement and insight.

Funny I thought H might be upset seeing her lovey with her H too- maybe he's still dealing in EA withdrawal....

Thanks for the perspective on him gaslighting also-!at first I was feeling bad and ashamed that I became emotional and vulnerable but then something clicked. I had known it intellectually but finally emotionally I saw and felt how I had made so much progress on my issues and he was stuck. And I actually got peeved at how bad he was making me feel about it all to deflect from his own discomfort.
At least he finally came back a few days later and said it was all him and I did nothing wrong.

We shall see how things shake out over the next several months. D or not I am going to be great and focus on me! I think I'm finally moving from faking it to making it.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2487599 09/12/14 02:52 AM
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I'm having a frustrated/overwhelmed night. Not sure why- I had been doing so good.
Last night and tonight H had dinners ( one social for friends b day and one business). He took one or two kids to each which was nice, but I had the littlest one both nights. I think I'm just needing some down time.
Behind on work stuff, overwhelmed about keeping up with kids laundry and other stuff now that it is just me ( he's been living away for a year but still around so much he was helping- now it's much less that he's around).
I'm sure I'll have days like this as I adjust.

Signed up with a few different meet up groups and going to try to get out some. I love being social and going to group activities so that should be good for me.

I'm still doing well overall- don't initiate any conversations unless they are kid related. At least he's very involved there- seems to be reconnecting with them more and more ( was never an absent dad but definitely more distant for awhile- much better now).

Hopefully tomorrow will be better with renewed PMA......


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2487956 09/12/14 11:53 PM
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Journal entry........
I came home to H watching a show with S7 ( he was relieving our nanny today as I was running behind). I went in to chat about kids schedule for weekend activities and transportation . He asked what's wrong- I said just stressed- have lots of work to do.
Then he came out of TV room to talk to me- asked me if I was ok and again I said just overwhelmed- S7 had run out of clean school uniforms last night and I got overwhelmed. Not sure why nanny didn't pay attention but I was stuck catching up.
He seemed bothered, said he was glad we could talk, he could tell I was trying hard not to be standoffish. I said I've been ok, just busy week. Then he said I know this is all a mess- and I know that this is my stuff. ( yay mini progress)
Then he said do we need to talk about anything? I said no, just kids schedules. Then I asked if he was ok and he said no, everything's a mess. I asked a few questions but he didn't want to talk. Said he would deal with it.
Then told me he could help with laundry and other stuff still. I said that might not be good for you to do ( meaning he needs to focus on himself).
Then he told me I looked pretty, then said "I know I shouldn't say that to you."
I said it's ok-just because you want to divorce me you don't have to think I'm ugly. He looked away obviously emotionally upset and then said " I wouldn't use the word want".
After that he withdrew and went back to watching TV.
Ok well- that was a good conversation......
He's cooking, I'm GALing as best I can. One day at a time........


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2487958 09/13/14 12:02 AM
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daring, you sound like you're doing great. Keep it up smile. This is so hard. I'm pulling for you. Time will tell.

(((Hugs)))

Shining #2488287 09/14/14 03:56 AM
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Thanks for the positive vibes.

H seems to be down. I had social/kid things going on today and he had separate stuff. He stopped by this morning to drop off S16 who had stayed with him and then had to run. He had mentioned calling to come back by, but I was out running errands when he showed up. Then a few hours later he randomly called to see if I needed anything while he was out running errands.
Seems like he is looking for reasons to call.

He went to a surprise B-day party for work friend where many of the usual suspects were there. Came by to pick up younger kids and seemed really blah. I asked if he was ok and he said he was feeling down but would be ok.

Since his most recent declaration of needing to proceed with D I have dropped the rope more than ever before. He is not over at the house all the time like he lives here but just sleeps somewhere else. It's very brief and exchanging kids for most part. I'm doing my own social stuff and continuing to GAL as best I can. He does seem to be hitting some realizations. I don't think this is what he wants.
But I know now that I can't help, he has to figure it all out and do the work on his own. And while I am willing to be a lighthouse, I'm not willing to be a tugboat. He's got to dig into the uncomfortable stuff for himself. I deserve that, and it will be necessary if this is to ever work long term. I see his wheels turning, hope they don't get stuck.....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2488404 09/14/14 08:44 PM
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So today is 1yr anniversary of BD- and H seems to be a bit all over the place. Who knows if it's that or if he even remembers.

S7 stayed with him last night and he brought him back over around the time I was leaving for my massage ( figured I needed to do something nice for myself today).

I have colleagues coming over today and I had told him he was welcome to stay and swim but he decided to leave a little while ago.
I said " oh you don't want to stay?" He said it's not a matter of want ( there goes that thinking again). He said his attitude right now is not good for anyone and that I deserve better. He seems angry. Says it's all him and his own issues.

Ok- peace out- I have my own things to do today......


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2488452 09/15/14 12:00 AM
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Leave him alone and he'll come home, wagging his tail behind him. grin

You know I'm all about reaching out to them in sitches like ours daring, but is all the asking him how he's feeling/doing, or asking if he wants to join you and friends helping or hurting? I don't know, just something for you to think about.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Interesting food for thought FY- I guess I feel like it's something I " should" be doing ( the asking about him part at least- the inviting I didn't do initially but he seemed hurt so I told him he was welcome to hang out also).
He asks about me and he just seems so emotional I want to give him an opportunity to talk or share if he needs to.
There are a lot of awkward, silent, not much to say moments too and sometimes I fill them with those kinds of check-ins.
I'll have to try and step back and see if it is making things worse or better.
Right now it seems he is just incredibly restless and unhappy- my people pleaser fix it senses are on overdrive and I have to consciously redirect myself away from doing anything about it much of the time. I know this is his journey to take.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2488856 09/16/14 01:29 AM
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This is all such a process- one min I'm done with him, the next min I'm not.

Today at work I was frustrated thinking about the men in marriages I've met recently and how loving and stable they seem. ( yes I realize you never know what's going on behind closed doors, but it did make me think of my own M history and how long this MLC unrest has really been going on).

H called and suggested we switch vehicles for the week since he is traveling and I am picking up kids ( his truck has more room than my car). That was very thoughtful. Then he texted some things later and asked what time I would be home as he needed to get some things at the store before traveling tomorrow. ( I'm thinking to myself- what did you do all yesterday when you had no children???) Monday is always one of my later days and he knows that.

So I'm driving home and I'm listening to my empowering 80s music ( no laughing here :)) and thinking about how I can start over and find a man who will be mature and genuine.
I get to the house and then H walks in with the kids. He says " you do not look happy- from the moment I walked in you looked frustrated". Oops- guess my face wore my thoughts. I said I'm fine, just tired, Mondays are always busy. He looked at me with the " I know you better than that face" but didn't say anything else.
He teased me a little about the sexy shirt I had on and told me my eyes looked pretty. I stayed distant and we chatted about S16 counselor appt and couple other things. I made a comment about how S16 was covering up what he really thinks with counselor and H says " like you when you hate me but are still smiling at me?" I told him I didn't hate him ( and that's true- but I am irritated as sh!t!!).
At one point when putting some things together for him to take with him he asked- are you ok?
( see FY- this is what I mean- I feel like I should reciprocate but maybe that's the wrong move)
I said I was fine- then he reached to hug me. He held me for awhile,it was an emotion filled hug. I pulled away first and then he walked out of the house after telling me again I looked nice.

I realize the above is just a stream of consciousness. Just needed to put it down on paper.
At least my detachment has progressed to the fact that I know I will be ok with or without him.


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2488894 09/16/14 04:08 AM
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W and I had, and sometimes still have, plenty of those awkward silent periods. I've learned to be comfortable with them. The quietness is not going to make or break the relationship.

Just be yourself. If you feel like mentioning something go ahead and do it. The only thing I'd avoid now is relationship talks. They are not helpful at this point.

I like to think of it as a dance. When my W is opening up and connecting, I do the same. If she's pulling back or being distant, I give her space.

You know your H better than any of us, so just pay close attention and take notes.

Don't fool yourself with fantasies of a dream partner. D is very painful, something to avoid if at all possible! New relationships offer no guarantee. Plus, since you have kids H and you will never be truly "Done" with each other. Go ahead and fantasize if it helps you deal with things, but you're far from done!

Last edited by ForeverYoung; 09/16/14 04:09 AM.

M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Working on being comfortable in those silent moments. I can be in a room or nearby in silence. It's the moments where we are there looking into each other's eyes saying nothing but speaking volumes that gets me. The raw vulnerability is tough in that moment. But I guess that's my issue-huh??

I think I might have conveyed the wrong message when I mentioned being done or fantasizing etc. I know we will always be connected, both because of children and because we really do have a deep emotional connection- even H has said that. I don't plan to initiate a D at any point in the near future. I think my " done" comments and thinking about other relationships are my way of convincing myself that I can continue to detach and I will be ok and will find happiness if this goes in a way I don't want it to and have no control over.
I'm trying to get to the point where I can envision him never coming back to this relationship and me moving on. Not because I want to, but because I might have to.

This is so hard as I am a very deeply sensitive person and either all in or all out. Granted I had built up some walls that I am working very hard on tearing down and rebuilding in healthy ways- but I've never had an exit strategy- always a " need to work it out within the context of the current relationship" strategy.
I don't know how to somewhat protect my heart and get off the roller coaster while still being open with him......


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2489637 09/18/14 12:13 AM
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Starting to hit my " I'm overwhelmed" point. Not even the S/potential D but fallout related to it is much of what is stressing me.
D13 has always been a little more on the anxious side but is now having horrible panic attacks and a fear of death and questioning her belief in God and heaven. Much of this is normal adolescent searching but it is compounded by the current situation. I think she is afraid of that feeling of loss- just like our MLCers and us- but at least we are adults.
At first she denied it had anything to do with her dad and I but then talking to our neighbor she admitted that was a lot of it, especially since this all happened around her birthday last year and she just had her birthday. ( I hope she doesn't associate those two forever).

I'm trying my best to support and help her and also getting her in with a therapist. H is helping too but it's more from afar and on the phone- either b/c he is traveling or b/c she doesn't want to go to his apt and stay. So I'm feeling the burden of this heavily.
Nanny is also going on vacation and I start call for the week on Monday. Have to meet with the tax lawyer tomorrow and a few of the employees at the office are creating major drama.
Apparently God is trying to remind me to lean on His strength because mine alone isn't enough for all of this...... My IC says I'm doing pretty well considering. And I learned I've lost 12lbs since my physical last year.
Focusing on the positive and what I can control.....


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
daring #2489670 09/18/14 01:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
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daring,

I'm sorry you're having a tough time. It sounds like there is a lot going on, and about to get tougher next week. When my kids are hurting, that alone can just about take me out.

I'm not in a place to offer advice due to some brain-fry and lack of experience.... But I'm here for support . ((((HUGS))))

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