Am I on the right track?

[Nitty]

Nitty, what do you mean by "H agrees to a form of MC?" I would like for my WW to go to a marriage saving seminar as a last resort. How did you get your WH to agree to MC? Was it regular MC or a last-resort seminar? I've heard horror stories about MC, so I'm not too optimistic about that route, especially since my WW has already told me she doesn't want to go to MC.

First, nmwb123, don't insist that your WW go to MC. I did that and it backfired on me. I did my research and found an excellent MC, H said he liked him, but the truth was that H was not ready and (unknown to me) was not willing to be totally honest at that point about the extent of his A. After a few sessions he left me and said he would never, EVER go to MC. He has maintained that opinion ever since.

Everybody's sitch is different, only you know what's best, but if I had to do it over again I wouldn't have insisted on anything. In the beginning I bought him books, sent him links to articles, did all sorts of stuff. All I can say is back off from that. You can't do MC if there is an ongoing A. It just will not work.

Now we are currently in D mediation, instigated by H. Our mediator is not an atty but a C who does D mediation as well as business and family negotiation. His specialty is described here: http://www.goodtherapy.org/conflict-resolution-therapy.html

When we started I asked H to consider the conflict resolution as an alternative to MC but H refused, said he was "done" and "through" and we only needed the D mediation services. Note that I suggested it and he said no. He is still opposing pretty much anything I suggest.

But when the mediator proposed communication skill-building to be done concurrently with mediation, stressing that it would help us streamline the process of D as well as help us in other family Rs, H agreed to participate.

It is not MC. But it can help us keep from fighting during D mediation so that's why I called it "a form of MC". He seems to have moved from being "done" to being "in reconciliation" in his head, somehow. I don't know how it happened. Who can fathom these MLCers?

Tomorrow he may reject it, just as he rejected traditional MC. Maybe he'll reject it next session. Or perhaps he'll stick with it and decide he wants traditional MC, too. Who knows?

I am trying to have No Expectatons and constantly remind myself that these MLCers dance forward and back, forward and back. Just because he's dancing forward right now, in my direction, doesn't mean anything. He has done this before and will probably dance back again.

What helped me the most has been reading hundreds and hundreds of the threads here, seeing what worked for people and what hasn't, again stressing that everyone's sitch is different. I hired a DB coach, too, who helped me through a rough spot.

There are no guarantees, but it isn't over yet. Be cooperative in D in that you do what you are supposed to do and protect your rights, but don't do anything else. If she wants this D let her do all the grunt work for it. In my case, my H paid for mediation, but after three sessions still has not completed his paperwork. You can bet your sweet bippy I will not do it for him.

Time is on your side. It is, as Cadet says, "a gift". Use it wisely, not to pursue her but to better yourself.

[wmwb123]

Wow, thanks Nitty. I appreciate your detailed response. That's very helpful.

I was just looking through your signature, and I thought things had improved for you. I thought you were on the path toward reconciliation. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm sorry you're still suffering.

My WW pretty much cut off all contact as soon as she left. I did not know about the affair until after she was gone, so I didn't get a chance to make any ultimatums. She was already gone, and she was already talking about divorce before I even recovered from the initial shock.

I never had a chance to really communicate with her and find out what I had done wrong. She would usually just say it was because she was selfish that she had to leave. Now I know what she was talking about.

I'm guessing she feels guilty, and that's why she won't talk to me via phone, text or in person.

Are there any stories of people getting through to their wayward spouses in the midst of divorce proceedings? Should I drag them out or just let her have the D?

[wmwb123]

Woohoo! Now I can post without time lags!

[wmwb123]

What did you expect her reaction to be??

Honestly, I thought once her parents knew she would snap out of it. My wife is a conservative Christian, and she knows that what she's doing is wrong. I did not think she would dig her heels in. I thought letting her parents and a couple of good Christian friends know would bring her back into reality.

[wmwb123]

nmwb123,

Sorry to see you here.

It hurts like hell, and you (like all of us) have racing thoughts and can't get yout spouse or their affair partner, or the whole bloody mess out of our mind. To tell you to try not to think about it is probably not too helpful: no one is THAT zen. ;-)

The reason people recommend "get a life" activity is to help you save yourself. Any activity that demands your full attention and helps you find flow (losing yourself in the activity) frees your mind from fixations on the affair. Sailing, martial arts, rock-climbing, painting, etc are all things that might help you regain balance AND give your mind a break. You can't really worry about your marriage when you are reaching for the next hand-hold as you scale the climbing wall or ducking someone's left hook in your kick-boxing class. Get in shape, give your mind some rest. Running on a treadmill won't help, it allows your mind to drift and you'll have racing thoughts. Pick something that really engages you.

On the positive side, you don't have kids. Sorry if that's cold-comfort right now, but this would be significantly worse if your kids had to go through this. You really have only ONE person to worry about protecting: YOU.

I'm not going to tell you to fix yourself or become a better person you so your wife can see the positive changes. That makes the next 6-24 mos of your life a miserable hell of walking on egg-shells and worrying if she's noticing your changes. Generally speaking, it doesn't really work. She knows your doing it to win her back so she's really suspicious and most people backslide from those changes. Lots of DB "champs" that mentored me THOUGHT they saved their marriages by becoming superman for 12 mos, 18 mos even 2 yrs. Eventually they slipped back into more usual behavior, and guess what? Yup. Their spouses ended up leaving them and cheating on them again. They are both divorced now. They used to have success stories posted on the DB boards.

Yes in THEORY if you, through some herculean effort, are able to change yourself significantly, and maintain those positive changes FOREVER, you might have a chance at attracting your wife back and keeping her. Michelle Weiner Davis says it's the hardest thing you'll ever do. In my opinion, you might have a better shot of making it through the Navy Seals training class. Heck...I believed it at first, and I SWORE I could change. Guess what? Didn't happen for me. I got exhausted. I forgot to grow a spine in the process and I didn't lay down healthy boundaries. In the end, the fact my wife didn't think her affair was wrong (even though she was open to reconciling)took the wind out of my sails. I couldn't stay married to someone who thought adultery was a viable, morally acceptable option.

For your marriage to be saved, you BOTH need to want to save it. DB-ing only gets their attention, but it doesn't really make them want to change themselves, or even experience remorse for cheating on you. That would take serious marriage counseling.

Here's my advice.

1. Don't pursue her. the more energy you put into the relationship NOW, the more she's going to pull back. If you give her space, she MIGHT be curious. Or then she might not. No guarantees here.

2. See a Lawyer and protect yourself/your assets. Know your options. Take steps to move on with your life. You can always stop the train, but getting it started means you are serious about caring for yourself. Right now you are acting like you are a footnote in your wife's story. Start acting like you are the main character in your own play. ;-)

3. If you have evidence of her affair you have to decide if you want to use it. You can wait a period of time and see how it plays out. Confronting her is only good if you give her an ultimatum. It's me or him. Decide now. Even Michelle Weiner Davis talks about ultimatums. They usually are only effective after the the Last Resort Technique and after going dark. In my opinion, your wife may have already decided. Ultimatums are, to some degree, a sign of strength - they show resolve and backbone, which is attractive. Unfortunately you only get to use them once and they don't always work out.

4. Give yourself a time-line. 3, 6 ,9 mos. Decide how long YOU are willing to leave the door open before you file for divorce. And stick to it. If it doesn't work out, at least you walk out with your dignity. Otherwise you'll be dragged in kicking and screaming through a divorce where you have lost all your power.

5. My personal experience though the whole process is this: the WORSE things I imagined would happen DID happen. And several years after the fact, I'm OK. I wasn't destroyed. The worst case scenario isn't going to destroy you. If I had that perspective then, perhaps I wouldn't have been so frozen in fear. What's the WORST thing that can happen? You lose your wife. And THEN what? Can your life still experience joy and meaning? Yes. Do we rise, phoenix-like, from the ashes? Yes. It's really hard to see that, but really, had I lost my fear, I might have been a bit more creative and, perhaps would have been able to f*ck with the OM in my situation, who happened to have been my best-friend.

6. Put on you inner Samurai. Suit up. Lock and Load. It's YOUR life.

Peace,

Theoden

Thank you, Theoden. I did not see this post until recently. I have been MIA for a while as you can see.

[wmwb123]

wow. Take in all that Theoden has said: GAL and detach----expecting NOTHING from her (no texts, phone call, smile)will save your life. Yes it is counter intuitive! Keep memorizing and living out Sandi's37 rules but remember: you are still early into the game. I am still early into the game (4 months since DBing)
Too early to lose hope and throw the dB book away. It ain't over till it's over and even without dB I know of several people in my life who made it through a hellish separation and are still together. It can happen just keep the "road home smoothed and paved" a dB saying for don't backslide and lose all those hard earned changes. People who have reverted back to their old ways,
YES that happens
But if you are working on yourself and those changes are for YOU and make you happier and everyone in your world happier, not just your WAW you will stay changed. And then everyone wins.
Don't try to get comfort from this with family and friends: you get pity or "just move on" come here for support often. Fight with us who want our M back.
I am with you man. Work on what you need to change. Be the man only a fool would leave!

Thank you, rayzzz. Yours was another I missed until the other day. Sorry.

It is early in the game for me, but unfortunately, my wife has filed for divorce. Now I'm looking for advice on how to proceed. I guess it was doomed from the start, and I never had a chance, anyway.

I have good Christian friends, and they are supporting me in my fight for my marriage.

[wmwb123]

My thoughts are this: My wife's affair has been going on for three months now (PA, the EA started six months ago). If most affairs end within six months, and I want to save my marriage, then I should at least try to drag the divorce proceedings out so that we do not end up divorced before those six months are up. Once she is no longer with the AP, maybe she will be more open to communication.

[wmwb123]

Unfortunately, I had to pay a retainer today. I'll have to file an official response. Every step closer to divorce pushes me back into despair. I do not want to divorce. If anybody here prays, please pray that my wife will come to her senses before the divorce is finalized. She's been gone for 3 months now, so I'm hoping and praying desperately that it's just a matter of another few months before her affair ends.

[wmwb123]

I have an appointment to talk with my attorney again tomorrow. She's going to go over my options with me again.

Does anybody have any advice? Do I dispute the "irreconcilable differences" and leave it at that to show her once again that I love her? Should I counter file for adultery to show her I'm standing up for myself? What's my best option here to work towards reconciliation?

[Wet]

Hi nmwb123, the best advice I can give is go to the meeting prepared. Bring tax returns, bank statements, a list of your important/valuable assets/investments, the deed to any properties you own, etc.

And most importantly, come with a list of your questions. This should be a good conversation between the two of you. Also, make sure that you understand if you are being billed for this meeting - attorneys need to be clear about their billing method (flat fee, hourly, or some combination). Good luck.