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mdu,

All that probably came across as way too harsh.

I just really think that a lot of times it is easy for others to see, from our posts on here, what our spouses may be dealing with on a daily basis with us. Does that make sense? I could read my own posts and see the Train my H was dealing with. And sometimes it became pretty obvious the patterns I needed to change in myself.

Again, I hope you weren't hurt by what I wrote. That truly was not my intent. And I hope you can glean *something* from it.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 768
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Train, I do appreciate the feedback but yes, I did find it rather harsh. More than that, though, I truly found it overwhelming. And unfortunately I allowed myself to get into a bit of a panic and called H in this overwhelmed state. It started out good with a calm discussion about me being the planner. He was emphatic that this is not an issue for him. That far and away his biggest issue with me is my anger and getting nasty when I get especially angry. This is the #1 thing he’s looking to see change before fully recommitting.

Unfortunately we then got to talking about the separation and A a bit and then one thing led to another and I ended up letting my anger get the better of me and started getting really nasty. Ugh! This is precisely what I should NOT do to win him back. It was really awful. Obviously I never should have called him in the first place given my head was already kind of ‘off’.

My #1 work, truly, is it to manage my anger and nastiness. I need to better recognize my triggers and then get myself into a calm and rational state before I speak to H (or anyone). Your post was a trigger. And not at all blaming you, Train, just stating what happened mostly for my own future reference. Anyway, your post sent my mind reeling about our M, about the A, about a million things. And then I called H. You don't have to say it, dumb, I know.

Identifying triggers is an anger management fundamental which I know well and have studied many times, implementing is another thing entirely, though. But it’s clearly absolutely key to bettering myself for both my M and other important relationships.

Eventually H and I got off the phone but the damage had been done. I felt so terrible as I calmed down and came to my senses. About 2 hours later I asked him if we could speak again, he said yes and called me. I apologized for being so nasty. Which is big for me. Not that I wouldn’t apologize previously but usually it was a disingenuous one with a….’but you did such and such’ at the end. This time I just took accountability. It was really hard to get myself there, especially given the A. But I kept reminding myself there’s no excuse for nastiness, not even an A. All it does is more damage and for what? A few minutes of feeling righteous and powerful? Ugh! Anyway, he was really receptive to my apology. And he apologized too. Then we chatted a bit and things felt back on track. Which is also big for us. Usually a blow up like this would start a vicious, never ending finger pointing battle between us.

So while it was very bad, it kind of ended good. I know the best is obviously not to engaged in this behavior in the first place. But when I make mistakes it’s good to know if I truly take accountability H will be receptive. So all in all I’m considering this a sorta success. At the very least it’s documentation of what NOT to do.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
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mdu,

You honestly remind me so much of myself that it's almost like I'm reading my own words and actions when I read your posts.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that. wink


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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"So all in all I’m considering this a sorta success. At the very least it’s documentation of what NOT to do."

I wouldn't. What Train explained was very much true about you and your reaction was par for the course.

I've mentioned before that I think you are one of those people who NEED a C to show you what to do and monitor your progress instead of just reading it from a book. You mentioned that you were looking at getting help for that several weeks ago and you haven't done any movement.

If anger was the biggest issue your H had with you, shouldn't that be your priority? Apologizing after doesn't stop you from doing it again. You apologize enough and after awhile they become empty words.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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"If anger was the biggest issue your H had with you, shouldn't that be your priority?"

That's exactly the point. Anger is the biggest issue and is my #1 priority, not getting H to plan activities.

Mistakes are a normal part of trying to change behavior. H can chose to stay and give me a chance...or not. For the moment it seems he is choosing to continue to stay. Nothing more I can do but keep trying and when I get off course, apologize and get back on track ASAP; getting back on track is success.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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You missed my point. I think you could benefit from having a real life C rather than doing it yourself. You are quiet stubborn in that respect.

"That's exactly the point. Anger is the biggest issue and is my #1 priority,"

But not enough of a priority to get help for it. That's the point. I have a feeling that once you get him back, your changes won't stick. You seem to have that pattern of many of the ones I've seen here over the years.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Posts: 1,433
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My post was *supposed* to be about far more than your H planning activities, though, I admit, I'm hung up on that a little ... because it seems that would be the easiest and quickest way for you to learn how to give up just a little control and let your H lead his wife and family from time to time.

The post was intended to challenge you to think outside the box ... to consider that maybe you don't know your H - or all the answers - like you think you do.

My point also wasn't just about letting your H "drive" your planned outings/activities. That would way oversimplify the message. It's about you backing off a little, letting go of all the control and letting him drive *something*, ANYTHING in your marriage.

I'd continue to challenge you to think even beyond your anger. Recall some times you got angry with your H. Why did you get angry in the first place? What caused it? There had to be an event that sparked the anger. Now, what caused that *event*? Does that make sense?

I'm not at all rejecting what your H is saying to you as the (one) reason he was unhappy. But I still think there's more. I think y'all are scratching the surface, which is maybe all that CAN be done at this stage.

But YOU have the ability to challenge your own thinking and to think outside the box. I may only be one person, but I think your M depends on it. And I agree with Bond that your reaction to my post just shows there's still "more of the same" going on in you. Again, we see - in how you react/respond to different things - what your H must also see. Make sense?


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Oct 2009
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I might be the only one that thinks this but....

I don't really think mdu's husband minds her planning things...

some people really are planners and others really aren't

my partner is not a planner...not at all...he hates planning. He likes doing and he will give suggestions for something to do and then it is up to me to plan and make it happen. He feels good because he came up with the idea and I feel good because I didn't have to think of everything.

I also believe there is a difference when you say "I am sorry. But if....then...." and "I'm sorry"

I'm sorry is the first step
having the internal conversation with yourself the next time so you don't have to say you are sorry at all comes next

We all make mistakes
we all should apologize

I agree....working on your anger and your triggers is the most important thing to do...for you and for your marriage

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Still here...

Been taking some time off from the BB to regroup and ground myself. Trying to make sure I keep the focus on my top priorities. Also, trying to keep focused on what is working and most effective for my particular situation. Consistently whatever the DBing coach advises gets me the best results so right now I'm letting her opinion trump.

A lot has been happening, H and I have spent quite a bit of time together over the last week including taking a day off work together. All very positive. He invited me to a concert this weekend with him, his older son and older son’s fiancé; we may also take another ½ day off work just to hang together. So lots of opportunity for connection which is obviously great.

We’re both very happy about the times we’re having fun and connecting. However, he is still very skeptical about coming home and things working out long term. He is concerned about old patterns and seeing behaviors in me that he didn’t like, which apparently ‘trigger’ a very negative downward spiral of general hopelessness about the marriage for him. He’s afraid if he comes home and basically is around me a lot that he will get to a negative place that he can’t get out of. He has commented several times that he has seen positive changes in me but it’s obvious that he needs to see them consistently over a longer period of time. He may see an individual counselor to discuss all his feelings, it’s very difficult but I’m trying to stand back and let him sort it out.

Similarly, I am also dubious about our future as we really have not done much of anything in terms of dealing with the affair and of course I don’t trust him right now. I feel reasonably confident that things with OW are either completely over or at least have cooled off very, very considerably. His entire demeanor towards me has changed (for the better). We have briefly discussed transparency plan but not specifics. He has expressed interest in hearing the specifics so I think we will go there very shortly, although since we don’t live together currently a lot of it would be quite difficult to implement. But if he wants to hear it, I will share so at least he will know specifically what I expect/need in order for him to come home, the transparency plan is definitely a condition of him moving back.

So that's the latest. I hope everyone is well.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Thanks for the update, mdu. I was wondering what was going on with you.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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