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#2461307 06/18/14 09:38 AM
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Here is my last thread:

What's my Next Move?


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Well last night she admitted the conflict is Stay with Me Versus go with OM!

I know the believe Nothing what you hear rule.

So I am going to assume that this could be just a lie.

Just trying to set my strategy for the next couple of weeks.
I do believe she's touring apartments.

Last edited by Oxford1; 06/18/14 09:50 AM. Reason: Spelling

W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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"So I am going to assume that this could be just a lie."

It's probably not a lie. What you don't understand is how conflicted the WAS can be and clearly your W is very confused.

Continue doing what you want to do as if she wasn't there.


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Originally Posted By: MrBond
"So I am going to assume that this could be just a lie."

It's probably not a lie. What you don't understand is how conflicted the WAS can be and clearly your W is very confused.

Continue doing what you want to do as if she wasn't there.


Ok, I will. The thing is she told me shes being more forthcoming and truthful to me then AP. I actually believe this

Another tid-bit is, I understand I can be quite controlling. Mr. Bond helped point this out to me and continues to do so when I post controlling statements.

However, my WAS must be attracted to this in men.

The Om tells her to not say, she is in "her House", he insists she says "I am in THE House", He tells her to not call me her husband, and says you must not say that when you refer to him, I think the US courts might think differently.

He tells her to call his apartment, in his country "Their or our" apartment. He insists she calls him her fiance. Meanwhile she told me when she put his "commitment ring" on his finger, a wave of Doubt and concern over-him overtook her. Oh, and he insisted that she do so.

Finally, she has told him that she is completely separate from me. Does not talk to me and has nothing to do with me in the house...

We sleep in the Same Bed!!!!!


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How does your WW handle the sons in all this? I mean I would hate to have my kids lose respect for me!! She is the main female role model for them that they will carry with them in their future relationships!!!

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"Ok, I will. The thing is she told me shes being more forthcoming and truthful to me then AP. I actually believe this"

You shouldn't. She's going to bring up whatever lie is going to make her sound the best.

"Another tid-bit is, I understand I can be quite controlling. Mr. Bond helped point this out to me and continues to do so when I post controlling statements."

See, your belief that she's being truthful is also controlling. It's like you don't want to acknowledge that you might be wrong. It's the same way of thinking that she has.

"However, my WAS must be attracted to this in men."

Which makes her weak enough to leave any relationship for whom she sees as stronger.

"The Om tells her to not say, she is in "her House", he insists she says "I am in THE House", He tells her to not call me her husband, and says you must not say that when you refer to him, I think the US courts might think differently."

Who cares what the courts think? The fact is that he has enough control over your W to order her around. And you're trying to order her around also so she's in a tug of war between you two. What happens when one side drops the rope in tug of war? The other side falls. That's what you need to do. Drop the rope.

"He tells her to call his apartment, in his country "Their or our" apartment. He insists she calls him her fiance. Meanwhile she told me when she put his "commitment ring" on his finger, a wave of Doubt and concern over-him overtook her. Oh, and he insisted that she do so."

Same.

"Finally, she has told him that she is completely separate from me. Does not talk to me and has nothing to do with me in the house...

We sleep in the Same Bed!!!!!"

Again, why do you concentrate solely on her? Let her go. Stop helping her.


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I agree with all your post above.

I am trying so hard to retrain myself. No more control, no more bringing up OM.

Let him attack me. Let him control her.

Worst of all let him text her over and over telling her he's worried for her safety and that I have done something.

If she's five minutes late texting him. He freaks out. Calls all her phones texts her over and over.

How does she put up with this?


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Originally Posted By: MrBond


Again, why do you concentrate solely on her? Let her go. Stop helping her.


Does this include driving her and her staff to the airport etc? Is that what you mean?


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
If she's five minutes late texting him. He freaks out. Calls all her phones texts her over and over.

How does she put up with this?

It includes obsessing about her like this above ^^^^


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
If she's five minutes late texting him. He freaks out. Calls all her phones texts her over and over.

How does she put up with this?

It includes obsessing about her like this above ^^^^


crazy


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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While he's stressing over her, you can be the opposite and be casual, cool and fun. Do it with no expectations. Every now and then, tell her, 'hey, I was going to grab a drink if you want to come along", and if she says no, then just smile and say just though I'd ask, then you go out and have the time of your life. No expectations. She has to see you enjoy yourself rather than obsessing over her.


M-43 W-40
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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
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Originally Posted By: MrBond
While he's stressing over her, you can be the opposite and be casual, cool and fun. Do it with no expectations. Every now and then, tell her, 'hey, I was going to grab a drink if you want to come along", and if she says no, then just smile and say just though I'd ask, then you go out and have the time of your life. No expectations. She has to see you enjoy yourself rather than obsessing over her.


Ok great advice.

ThAnks


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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So she has decided to stay in the family home.

I need to set a boundary...it revolves around past sins. Not adultery, but probably worse in her eyes. Another issue is she likes to throw it up at me to get me into it with her.

Yesterday we had a text fight about it while she was on a business trip.

Then she called me and actually complained about OM, this then led me to attack not him as much as men who chase married woman etc etc.

So it's a two way street here.. I need to come up with something to say when she dwells on the past and past mistakes....just to rile me up.


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23
Boundary number 1- you will not listen to her relationship problems with OM.

How disrespectful.


She actually got upset about something today.

She threatened to divorce me, break-up with him and go live by herself for a while.

And then once she finds herself, go find a Real Man, a man that she wants to be with.

I replied, you have a real man right next to you, so why don't you dump him and see what you have...

Silence


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
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S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23
Boundary number 1- you will not listen to her relationship problems with OM.

How disrespectful.


She actually got upset about something today.

She threatened to divorce me, break-up with him and go live by herself for a while.

so the "threat" part is the divorcing you? B/c the rest is not threatening, imo.

And then once she finds herself, go find a Real Man, a man that she wants to be with.

Ouch...


I replied, you have a real man right next to you, so why don't you dump him and see what you have...


Silence


Sorry, I must be dense today. I don't understand your reply. You want her to dump YOU and then see...what she has? Or whom? Like OM?

Or you want her to dump HIM and then lose you, or what?

I'm confused.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
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H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
I agree with all your post above.

I am trying so hard to retrain myself. No more control, no more bringing up OM.

Let him attack me. Let him control her.

Worst of all let him
text her over and over telling her he's worried for her safety and that I have done something.

If she's five minutes late texting him. He freaks out. Calls all her phones texts her over and over.

See how you immediately talked about OM only a few SECONDS after saying you would not? You are definitely taking your time implementing real change.

If I were you, I'd ONLY focus on myself b/c Oxford, your m was a lousy one. Your sons' admit wishing you'd gotten a divorce or at least expecting you to do so b/c of what THEY SAW with their own eyes.

Too bad they have all the details b/c the more other people are involved, the harder it is to recover from.

You were supposed to keep the road home, paved and smooth. But you kept harping and obsessing and YES CONTROLLING, and blaming and blaming her som more, so you have made it a lot less likely to heal.

BACK OFF and learn to STFU. Don't involve your sons anymore, for everyone's sake.

more later...


How does she put up with this?



How does "SHE PUT UP WITH THIS?"---

no offense, okay? But she put up with much worse from you, for a lot of years...

I guess You trained her well.

Can you name 2-3 Actual specific 180s YOU are doing to become a better man?

Not to get her back, but to show your sons what a man is supposed to be like?

What are you working on in yourself to become a better man and partner, for whomever?

.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
I agree with all your post above.

I am trying so hard to retrain myself. No more control, no more bringing up OM.

Let him attack me. Let him control her.

Worst of all let him
text her over and over telling her he's worried for her safety and that I have done something.

If she's five minutes late texting him. He freaks out. Calls all her phones texts her over and over.

See how you immediately talked about OM only a few SECONDS after saying you would not? You are definitely taking your time implementing real change.

If I were you, I'd ONLY focus on myself b/c Oxford, your m was a lousy one. Your sons' admit wishing you'd gotten a divorce or at least expecting you to do so b/c of what THEY SAW with their own eyes.

Too bad they have all the details b/c the more other people are involved, the harder it is to recover from.

You were supposed to keep the road home, paved and smooth. But you kept harping and obsessing and YES CONTROLLING, and blaming and blaming her som more, so you have made it a lot less likely to heal.

BACK OFF and learn to STFU. Don't involve your sons anymore, for everyone's sake.

more later...


How does she put up with this?



How does "SHE PUT UP WITH THIS?"---

no offense, okay? But she put up with much worse from you, for a lot of years...

I guess You trained her well.

Can you name 2-3 Actual specific 180s YOU are doing to become a better man?

Not to get her back, but to show your sons what a man is supposed to be like?

What are you working on in yourself to become a better man and partner, for whomever?

.


I have to learn to shut up. Today we went out as friends for our 28th Wedding anniversary...It was a nice dinner until she hit a trigger, I don't know what it was.

I can tell that I made points she even said I did, but then she said I went to far....

I think I have planted seed of doubt about the OM. I just have to let them stew and really be the better man.


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23
Boundary number 1- you will not listen to her relationship problems with OM.

How disrespectful.


She actually got upset about something today.

She threatened to divorce me, break-up with him and go live by herself for a while.

so the "threat" part is the divorcing you? B/c the rest is not threatening, imo.

And then once she finds herself, go find a Real Man, a man that she wants to be with.

Ouch...


I replied, you have a real man right next to you, so why don't you dump him and see what you have...


Silence


Sorry, I must be dense today. I don't understand your reply. You want her to dump YOU and then see...what she has? Or whom? Like OM?

Or you want her to dump HIM and then lose you, or what?

I'm confused.


Sorry no not at all. she brings this up.

I have said to her, I would rather see you on your own then with this POS.
He is a fake phony fraud and she just does not see it.

Oh , i am the real man...she says what she says to shut me up...When she commented on dumping both of us for a real man she was just trying to get me to stop.

I will tell you if I dont stop she will leave again..I just have to shut up.

She already told OM to not cone to the US. If she is lying to me and I catch her with him....I pity him and then I will file for divorce and lock her out of the house..

Last edited by Oxford1; 06/23/14 02:43 AM.

W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
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S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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"I have said to her, I would rather see you on your own then with this POS.
He is a fake phony fraud and she just does not see it."

Wow you haven't listened to anything anyone has told you. First of all, you CAN'T make her see anything that she doesn't want to. You just can't stop controlling her. And let's face it, if it's not him it will be someone else. Then you'll complain about that one as well.

"Oh , i am the real man...she says what she says to shut me up...When she commented on dumping both of us for a real man she was just trying to get me to stop."

You don't get it. By doing what you just did, shows that you aren't the "real man" she is looking for. You haven't changed. You're still trying to be controlling and are just as bad as the OM.

"I will tell you if I dont stop she will leave again..I just have to shut up."

That's not going to do any good because you can't seem to stop. AND you don't seem to want to change or stop controlling her.

"She already told OM to not cone to the US. If she is lying to me and I catch her with him....I pity him and then I will file for divorce and lock her out of the house.."

Big words. You haven't done anything. AND you haven't changed. That's why she hasn't been looking back towards you. Given your attitude and the way you talked to her, why would she want to go back to you?


M-43 W-40
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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I have said to her, I would rather see you on your own then with this POS.
He is a fake phony fraud and she just does not see it."

Wow you haven't listened to anything anyone has told you. First of all, you CAN'T make her see anything that she doesn't want to. You just can't stop controlling her. And let's face it, if it's not him it will be someone else. Then you'll complain about that one as well.

"Oh , i am the real man...she says what she says to shut me up...When she commented on dumping both of us for a real man she was just trying to get me to stop."

You don't get it. By doing what you just did, shows that you aren't the "real man" she is looking for. You haven't changed. You're still trying to be controlling and are just as bad as the OM.

"I will tell you if I dont stop she will leave again..I just have to shut up."

That's not going to do any good because you can't seem to stop. AND you don't seem to want to change or stop controlling her.

"She already told OM to not cone to the US. If she is lying to me and I catch her with him....I pity him and then I will file for divorce and lock her out of the house.."

Big words. You haven't done anything. AND you haven't changed. That's why she hasn't been looking back towards you. Given your attitude and the way you talked to her, why would she want to go back to you?


I think today was bad because it was our anniversary.
This morning we go into it because she started and tonight it was me.

I feel awful about it.
I told her that as her "Anniversary" present I would stop .
I would just stfu !

Even our MC said this relationship is mine to loose.
The problem is I keep thinking he is here this week.

Whenever she tells me she had to work on the weekend or there is a meeting in the middle of the day it usually means he here


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33 years M 28
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S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I have said to her, I would rather see you on your own then with this POS.
He is a fake phony fraud and she just does not see it."

Wow you haven't listened to anything anyone has told you. First of all, you CAN'T make her see anything that she doesn't want to. You just can't stop controlling her. And let's face it, if it's not him it will be someone else. Then you'll complain about that one as well.

"Oh , i am the real man...she says what she says to shut me up...When she commented on dumping both of us for a real man she was just trying to get me to stop."

You don't get it. By doing what you just did, shows that you aren't the "real man" she is looking for. You haven't changed. You're still trying to be controlling and are just as bad as the OM.

"I will tell you if I dont stop she will leave again..I just have to shut up."

That's not going to do any good because you can't seem to stop. AND you don't seem to want to change or stop controlling her.

"She already told OM to not cone to the US. If she is lying to me and I catch her with him....I pity him and then I will file for divorce and lock her out of the house.."

Big words. You haven't done anything. AND you haven't changed. That's why she hasn't been looking back towards you. Given your attitude and the way you talked to her, why would she want to go back to you?


I think today was bad because it was our anniversary.


YOU attached expectations and YOU went too far with your talking about the M and or the A (again). Stop deflecting responsibility away from yourself.
That's the main pattern I see through out your posts.

You feign an "insight", then pretend to want to change a flaw, but the next thing out of your mouth is a defense/excuse or "explanation" for you, again, NOT controlling yourself. Not shutting up, when it's obvious to everyone that you should is a lack of discipline/control OF YOURSELF.

For a man who wants to control others so much, you may want to start by controlling your mouth and yes, your thoughts. You let them run wild, negatively....


This morning we go into it because she started

cry OMG here we go w/the blame game, round#39358...

and tonight it was me.
I feel awful about it.


Well, so what? I mean, you repeat other behaviors you also feel bad about. You don't change and you don't really "take in" what we are telling you.
Process the feedback...don't just defend yourself or make another journal entry b/c then, why are we to bother giving you any feedback?

You need to get AND use tools for change. As long as you refuse to do that, you stay stuck. That's on you. I hope someday you'll own that with your sons and not have them try to shame their mother into returning home. It won't work for long anyhow, and that's best case scenario. No WAS returns home, and stays, out of shame. It's wrong and it's too painful.

If you can't let this go (and you have given every indication that you cannot ever get past this), then what is the point of her making any effort?

FWIW, I thought if my h felt guilty enough, he'd return. I was wrong.

He converted the guilt he sometimes felt (never once did I trigger it, but he'd miss the kids, or they'd hug him, etc) But MY attempts to guilt him always, always, turned into anger and blame AT ME. \

And if I had "publicly" tried to expose or shame him (b/c that's what exposure is designed to do, and involving family or friends --e.g., them writing letters, is an example of more controlling attempts and shaming...and it's the opposite of what a woman having an affair, is going to be tempted by)...My h would have felt cornered and defensive. That does not help ME.

Work on YOU and only you. She's not your job to fix or complete.

I told her that as her "Anniversary" present I would stop .
I would just stfu ![/b]

I've never heard of someone talking about shutting up...Do it already.


Even our MC said this relationship is mine to loose.
The problem is I keep
thinking he is here this week.

"...I keep TALKING and TRYING TO CONTROL HER/OM"...that is THE problem. Period.

I know it's not easy to change this controlling streak, But it sure isn't complicated.


Whenever she tells me she had to work on the weekend or there is a meeting in the middle of the day it usually means he here


Who cares?? So what? How are you becoming a better man/choice? That is your task. Do you understand that?

So, What are your 180s? And your GAL?

(And please do not involve family members again...OMG that is NOT helping YOU or them)

Become a man only a fool would leave.


That^^ task will solve every solvable problem you have that is within your control. Leave the rest up to God.

CHANGE YOURSELF ASAP.

B/c you keep blaming her, and obsessing and deflecting, at your peril.

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 06/23/14 10:19 PM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I have said to her, I would rather see you on your own then with this POS.
He is a fake phony fraud and she just does not see it."

Wow you haven't listened to anything anyone has told you. First of all, you CAN'T make her see anything that she doesn't want to. You just can't stop controlling her. And let's face it, if it's not him it will be someone else. Then you'll complain about that one as well.

"Oh , i am the real man...she says what she says to shut me up...When she commented on dumping both of us for a real man she was just trying to get me to stop."

You don't get it. By doing what you just did, shows that you aren't the "real man" she is looking for. You haven't changed. You're still trying to be controlling and are just as bad as the OM.

"I will tell you if I dont stop she will leave again..I just have to shut up."

That's not going to do any good because you can't seem to stop. AND you don't seem to want to change or stop controlling her.

"She already told OM to not cone to the US. If she is lying to me and I catch her with him....I pity him and then I will file for divorce and lock her out of the house.."

Big words. You haven't done anything. AND you haven't changed. That's why she hasn't been looking back towards you. Given your attitude and the way you talked to her, why would she want to go back to you?


I think today was bad because it was our anniversary.


YOU attached expectations and YOU went too far with your talking about the M and or the A (again). Stop deflecting responsibility away from yourself.
That's the main pattern I see through out your posts.

You feign an "insight", then pretend to want to change a flaw, but the next thing out of your mouth is a defense/excuse or "explanation" for you, again, NOT controlling yourself. Not shutting up, when it's obvious to everyone that you should is a lack of discipline/control OF YOURSELF.

For a man who wants to control others so much, you may want to start by controlling your mouth and yes, your thoughts. You let them run wild, negatively....


This morning we go into it because she started

cry OMG here we go w/the blame game, round#39358...

and tonight it was me.
I feel awful about it.


Well, so what? I mean, you repeat other behaviors you also feel bad about. You don't change and you don't really "take in" what we are telling you.
Process the feedback...don't just defend yourself or make another journal entry b/c then, why are we to bother giving you any feedback?

You need to get AND use tools for change. As long as you refuse to do that, you stay stuck. That's on you. I hope someday you'll own that with your sons and not have them try to shame their mother into returning home. It won't work for long anyhow, and that's best case scenario. No WAS returns home, and stays, out of shame. It's wrong and it's too painful.

If you can't let this go (and you have given every indication that you cannot ever get past this), then what is the point of her making any effort?

FWIW, I thought if my h felt guilty enough, he'd return. I was wrong.

He converted the guilt he sometimes felt (never once did I trigger it, but he'd miss the kids, or they'd hug him, etc) But MY attempts to guilt him always, always, turned into anger and blame AT ME. \

And if I had "publicly" tried to expose or shame him (b/c that's what exposure is designed to do, and involving family or friends --e.g., them writing letters, is an example of more controlling attempts and shaming...and it's the opposite of what a woman having an affair, is going to be tempted by)...My h would have felt cornered and defensive. That does not help ME.

Work on YOU and only you. She's not your job to fix or complete.

I told her that as her "Anniversary" present I would stop .
I would just stfu ![/b]

I've never heard of someone talking about shutting up...Do it already.


Even our MC said this relationship is mine to loose.
The problem is I keep
thinking he is here this week.

"...I keep TALKING and TRYING TO CONTROL HER/OM"...that is THE problem. Period.

I know it's not easy to change this controlling streak, But it sure isn't complicated.


Whenever she tells me she had to work on the weekend or there is a meeting in the middle of the day it usually means he here


Who cares?? So what? How are you becoming a better man/choice? That is your task. Do you understand that?

So, What are your 180s? And your GAL?

(And please do not involve family members again...OMG that is NOT helping YOU or them)

Become a man only a fool would leave.


That^^ task will solve every solvable problem you have that is within your control. Leave the rest up to God.

CHANGE YOURSELF ASAP.

B/c you keep blaming her, and obsessing and deflecting, at your peril.


I agree with this..

Here is my sticking point.

She tells OM not to come she needs time with me and S16..
He gets PO he tells her shes listening to my wishes, that doing that means she is Joining The Dark side!!

I know he uses those words, I have heard him use it about himself when referring to his temper.

He tells her basically that husbands and wives can not ever say things like.."i don't want you going to the strip club" or worse yet,should agree with' if you want to sleep with someone outside the marriage..then go ahead" He has no respect for anything to do with marital vows, etc...

I told her that in a way he is saying if you and he get together and marry, you have no right as his wife to stop him from going to visit another woman" I know she gave that a lot of thought.

you see I am dealing with a guy who is 10,000 more times controlling and seriously sick in the head...I am in love with a woman...who can not see this...

I am the dark side...Her faithful, loyal husband and father of her boys, and provider of her lifestyle?

But this 53 year old Charlatan Womanizer and I have found out Fraud about his Military accomplishments..he is not the Dark side!!???

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Who cares?? So what? How are you becoming a better man/choice? That is your task. Do you understand that?

So, What are your 180s? And your GAL?

(And please do not involve family members again...OMG that is NOT helping YOU or them)

Become a man only a fool would leave.

That^^ task will solve every solvable problem you have that is within your control. Leave the rest up to God.

CHANGE YOURSELF ASAP.

B/c you keep blaming her, and obsessing and deflecting, at your peril.[u][/u][i][/i]

This is great I will stick it in my brain.

It is all about controlling myself.

the part about "only a fool would leave"

Is really what I need to focus on...

That will be my 180 for now..stop discussing OM!!


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
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As someone who has just worked this out, the OM really shouldn't be all your focus.
He is a symptom. Not a cause.

The OM is most likely the opposite of yourself and totally unsuited to your wife.
These people sneak in, fulfil your wife's needs when you aren't/or unable to, and your wife subconsciously rewires her brain to cope with any guilty feelings.
He is NOT Superman. Just a parasite.

Do whatever you have you to do to pour some water on those hot angry coals of anger. Any displays of anger just serve the OM and not you.

Spouses don't return when you're bashing them over the head with morality either.
As much as people seem to think it does.

Do what works and be patient. Try not to validate her choices for her though. That is the fine art.


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So, are you in Reconciliation?

I am confused?


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God no! Mine is shot to hell.
I got angry and exposed the whole thing to her family and friends.

I'm just advising against making the same mistakes out of hurt and anger that I did.


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Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
As someone who has just worked this out, the OM really shouldn't be all your focus.
He is a symptom. Not a cause.

The OM is most likely the opposite of yourself and totally unsuited to your wife.
These people sneak in, fulfil your wife's needs when you aren't/or unable to, and your wife subconsciously rewires her brain to cope with any guilty feelings.
He is NOT Superman. Just a parasite.

Do whatever you have you to do to pour some water on those hot angry coals of anger. Any displays of anger just serve the OM and not you.

I AGREE WITH YOU so much here!!

Spouses don't return when you're bashing them over the head with morality either.
As much as people seem to think it does.

Do what works and be patient. Try not to validate her choices for her though. That is the fine art.


Understood. I have to really focus on me.
This morning when she left for work she kisses me good-bye and says I love You, but in the back of my mind I know the minute she turns the corner shes calling him from her mobile phone..and will tell him the same thing...

I need to completely drop anything to do with him from my life and my thoughts. I have to act like he never existed.

I don't think he can drop me. I think he is more threatened by her relationship with me then anyone will ever know.

It is she and I that are seeing this MC as a reltionship coach, seperately but its about us. When WAW gets upset she does say she is going to leave both men..She never says me for him!!

The thing that I have to remember is that she left me. she moves away, she came back.
Then after her last trip she said she was getting an apartment. The MC convinced her to stay...we all know no one can convince you to do anything you don't want to.

Its as if she was conflicted and needed an independent party to tell her to stay.

Even my S16 psychiatrist believes my Wife comes back for me and uses Son as an excuse.

SO shes here, shes in OUR home, she is with me most of the time...

I just have to ignore the OM.


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
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S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
God no! Mine is shot to hell.
I got angry and exposed the whole thing to her family and friends.

I'm just advising against making the same mistakes out of hurt and anger that I did.


Oh sorry to hear that.

The exposure thing, someone did it on my behalf without my approval. I have had to fight to retain composure for her and me over this.

But honestly the exposure of OM he deserves it. He uses his Career as a way to meet married woman. He should never ever be allowed to lead a tour of the Holy Land Again...but thats wishful thinking...

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One more thing!
Be very careful of absorbing too much of the internet advice and concepts of WAW, WS, Affair Fog etc.
While these are valid, never let it over take YOUR own knowledge and perception of your situation. Use it as reference, not as an overall guide.

We all coming looking because we're lost and want anything to help the pain stop.

Just set up some fundamental boundaries. Of what you absolutely will not tolerate.
Stick to them. But don't ever react to those being crossed with ANGER.
You're giving them both ammo to shoot you with.

Her head is most likely all over the place like my wife's is.
Mine was too.

Be the stable one.
Affairs rarely last man. They're built on nothing but lies and fantasy.


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Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
One more thing!
Be very careful of absorbing too much of the internet advice and concepts of WAW, WS, Affair Fog etc.
While these are valid, never let it over take YOUR own knowledge and perception of your situation. Use it as reference, not as an overall guide.

We all coming looking because we're lost and want anything to help the pain stop.

Just set up some fundamental boundaries. Of what you absolutely will not tolerate.
Stick to them. But don't ever react to those being crossed with ANGER.
You're giving them both ammo to shoot you with.

Her head is most likely all over the place like my wife's is.
Mine was too.

Be the stable one.
Affairs rarely last man. They're built on nothing but lies and fantasy.


I have decided to end my affiliation with TAM.

The issue is someone exposed my wife on CV. She was page two on google.

Now we were called by one of those companies that push it down, we told them we could not afford them and she is number one page one when you google her name.

She is a medical professional..this is going to push her to leave me to go to the OM country.

I am scared to death of this !!


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I have to focus on all the info I have been given. I need to work on us and as you say all these distractions make my head spin.


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I thought I had troubles!

What is CV and TAM?
What is your relationship with the person who exposed your wife? Do you have their name and personal details?

Legal proceedings might be a possibility.
If it's an internet message board, and no hard proof exists on it. It's not exactly a credible source of information.

It's a question of damage control at the moment. Don't beat yourself up. Mistakes happen, sometimes they are out of our hands too.


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There are plenty of "Gagging Orders" in operation. Even when it is the truth.
Ever hear "I'm not legally allowed to say anything on the matter?"

Usually amongst celebs, but I'm unsure of the law out there.

Personally, I don't believe 90% of what I see on the internet.


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Consequences.


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The biggest issue is how to handle what is going on in our marriage.

Even her attorney is now telling my attorney that my wife is so inconsistent it's nauseating


She basically said that she is still in a relationship with dirtbag, but that she is trying to work on our marriage. That we are seeing a PhD psychologist marriage counselor, but separately.
that she is a relationship coach at this point...

That she is not ready to leave me and she hopes to work on our marriage, but she is not ready to drop OM.

I think that her photo should be added next to the term CAKE-EATER


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
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S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I think that her photo should be added next to the term CAKE-EATER




And yours should be added next to the term "PASSIVE, FEARFUL ENABLER." So what's your point?


Seriously, if she's this messed up, you need to be asking yourself why you even want her. That says more about you than it does about her at this point, I'm afraid.


Starsky


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Ok, I've been through your story and I've face palmed myself so much I might have a black eye tomorrow.

We've all done it at some stage, some longer than others. Myself included!

There's a fine line between Tough Love and Turning Nasty.
THINK about which camp your behaviour will fall in.
If you bottle this resentment up by trying to please her, you'll snap like I did and do things that are more Turning Nasty.

She is walking all over you at the moment.
Whenever she makes any remarks that are hurtful, do NOT react. Just calmly say "Was there any need for that?"

It worked every time for me. God knows why I didn't do it more often.

If she insists on spending time with the OM, do not react with anger. But refuse any attempts to work on the marriage until the OM is history.

Honestly man, the more calm and in control you make yourself, the less helpless you feel.
That is some essential stuff!
Makes you less likely to lash out and make the OM more appealing.

Who knows, after a while, you might even start to wonder if you can really tolerate this treatment anymore.

I do look back on my own separation at times and shake my head at how I allowed my WS to talk to me and treat me like she has.


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I have the OM's telephone number.

I am so tempted to call him and tell him everything ....everything she lies to him about!


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S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
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Rip up the OM's number. It is of no use to you. Get back to work on you and your future.

Time wasted on OM is time that you will not enjoy, and will never get back.

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Originally Posted By: zew
Rip up the OM's number. It is of no use to you. Get back to work on you and your future.

Time wasted on OM is time that you will not enjoy, and will never get back.


Thanks..


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This parasite is not worthy of your time or mental energy.
He is just some lowlife scumbag that has exploited a gap in your relationship.

Calling his phone number will achieve what? He'll either laugh at you, manipulate you or use it against you somehow. Why give him the satisfaction?

There is only really one legal and moral way to get rid of him.
Show yourself to be a far better man than him. Show that you are capable of fulfilling the needs that this clown is doing, but much better!

At the moment, everything you're suggesting is playing straight into his hands.


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Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
This parasite is not worthy of your time or mental energy.
He is just some lowlife scumbag that has exploited a gap in your relationship.

Calling his phone number will achieve what? He'll either laugh at you, manipulate you or use it against you somehow. Why give him the satisfaction?

There is only really one legal and moral way to get rid of him.
Show yourself to be a far better man than him. Show that you are capable of fulfilling the needs that this clown is doing, but much better!

At the moment, everything you're suggesting is playing straight into his hands.


Yes your right. The fact that she is starting to wonder if he is controlling I think shows she may be questioning this OM.

She even keeps telling me she loves me, kisses me hello and good-bye.

I have to show her I am the better man.


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
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Originally Posted By: Oxford1


I have to show her I am be the better man.



There. Fixed it for you. smirk


Why would you want to SHOW her, anything? She's cheated on you, openly, and disrespected you, your marriage and your family.


BEING the better man is for YOU -- not for HER.


Starsky


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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
I have the OM's telephone number.

I am so tempted to call him and tell him everything ....everything she lies to him about!



GO to some other site b/c THIS SITE IS DIVORCE BUSTING and you are clearly NOT following the advice given here or the books.

YOU just said you have to "stop THINKING about OM" and here you are, AGAIN trying to manipulate outcomes and that means you are still into the whole controlling thing...

Have you actually read any of the DIVORCE BUSTING books?


READ THEM AND DO WHAT WORKS...stop mixing up approaches b/c that does a disservice to all of them.

nothing you have done, has gotten your wife to return for good. STOP focussing on her or OM and focus only on you...good grief this is frustrating.

You keep deflecting off of yourself. What are YOU DOING, TO BECOME A BETTER MAN? You know, the whole "become a man only a fool would leave",

and btw, that is about YOU, not her!

You have your own issues (for the life of me, I must be the only one to have read your whole thread ---it is long).

But you have been physically rough with her, you do a TON of scorekeeping, which you forget that she does as well and on HER scorecard you are not ahead, and your own son expected your marriage to fail.

What is DIFFERENT about how YOU behave now?

Why won't your wife fear that if she returns to the m, you'll be just like you have been in the past--

but worse, b/c you'll keep obsessing and TALKING about the R and blaming...??

If I were contemplating leaving a man with your control issues/lack thereof, my biggest fear would be a reversion to exactly how it was before the BD.

You give her ammo every day that you will indeed make this all about how great YOU were as a h (as if all of the problems began with OM, which is a lie)

and how the OM is a POS. What good has that done, YOU? Sure, it keeps you from looking in the mirror but if you'd spent half your energy on your own self improvement that you spend blasting OM, you'd be a lot farther in this process.

The more you try to corner her, the faster she'll want to run. I don't see the cake eating so much as a toxic dynamic all the way around.

You control you, and then the dynamic might change.


M: 57 H: 60
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S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
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What are your GAL and 180s?

Name 2 of either, please.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
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X marries OW 5/2016

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Embrace the Change
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took the words out of my mouth 25!!!

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Ox,

25yrs and I probably agree maybe 25% of the time, lol. Typically very different approaches, at least on the surface. The fact that we're both -- hell, we ALL -- are telling you the same thing OUGHT to tell you something.


Starsky


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The Tough Love thing has to be done on us BS/LBS's too.

Honestly dude, unless you get yourself straight in the head and heart (for your own benefit), this whole process will eat you alive.
You'll do plenty of damage to what's left of the relationship too.

Most of our wives not only take our hearts when they go, but they'll take our balls too if we're not wearing them at the time.


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I'll tell you what, "This thread is hot!" Now, drop the rope and let it burn, Ox." We're kicking you in the rear because we understand and don't want you to tailspin into the gutter or take a dive into the pit. You're spiraling down and need to read and reread Sandi's list and all the DBing books. You obviously are educated and not wanting to use that head of yours. It's critical you get that head screwed on. I know. Been there and THANK GOD I didn't do anything yet that I regret. Just do it. Stop talking and start taking the DBing action. GAL 180 drop the rope
Do you get it? This DBing is Tough Love on steroids!

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Thanks everyone

It's all ABOUT ME ME ME ME!

I have to work on me!


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Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
The Tough Love thing has to be done on us BS/LBS's too.


That is exactly our point. Oxford is continually pointing at his wife and or OM for change in THEM, which he has zero control over. Plus he has his own flaws to work on and those are what his job is, not fixing her or OM.

Honestly dude, unless you get yourself straight in the head and heart (for your own benefit), this whole process will eat you alive.
You'll do plenty of damage to what's left of the relationship too.

Most of our wives not only take our hearts when they go, but they'll take our balls too if we're not wearing them at the time.



Um, not to quibble, but I'm sure how this^^ plays in.

Ox's anger has worsened things, not improved them. He needs to control HIMSELF, not others.

Ox, Start by GAL, please...you'll never detach without that and you will repeat your past dynamics too much.

Bottom line is this,

No WAS comes home to a marriage they left,

UNLESS they believe the marriage can be

better/different than before.


It's your job to demonstrate YOUR changes...How on earth will she ever believe that YOU are different/better than before,

if you continue to repeat the same destructive
(controlling and obsessive and insecure) behaviors as you have for so long?

Just stay in your sandbox and work on You...stay out of hers and for God's sake don't even think about OM's sandbox. He has his issues-- but the more you point them out, the more she'll defend him. Unlike many, you have a wife in the home to whom you could better interact (or repeat the past bad behaviors she uses to justify leaving you or wanting an OM) b/c OM is a symptom, NOT the cause...

Fix yourself and improve the dynamics between you and your wife, and the rest takes care of itself. IN short, Back off, BE the better choice.

I wasted a year of my life wondering WHY?? my h was going all "Tundra" on me. A year I can't get back. (And our marriage had once been a truly excellent one, so we never had the toxic dynamics you are dealing with...)

I could have spent that year on myself and my kids' lives and improving them...but until he actually went up there, I could not figure this out. I tried and fell and got back up again and then when he left
I realized I only had one healthy choice.

When I GAL, I finally saw the light...and my goal was NOT getting him back.

My goal was to be happy, with the expectation that he probably was gone forever.

And I did get happier, and so did our children.

So when he wanted back into the marriage/home, I hesitated a long time b/c I just was not sure I wanted to be hurt again AND also b/c I had come to like my new life quite a bit.

My guess is that I became the woman he fell in love with, again.


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Thanks
Your post is excellent especially hearing it from a woman

This morning I was getting ready for the Gym, she was getting ready to go to our home gym and do her p90x

It was a normal morning. She looked at me and said OM is starting to drive me crazy . He never stops talking and makes me late for work. Then at work he forgets that my clients come first!

All I could say to myself was holy cr@p you tol me that I did this.
I haven't been like this in years!

Then she said I need to tell him to back off he thinks he can control me from 6400 miles away!

Wow she could not have said these things at a better time!
Everyone here is telling me back away shut up GAL and she's telling me he's making her nuts!
Then she hugs me I mean like I have not had from her in a long time. A hug that could have if we were ready led to intimacy !

As a side note the collaborative lawyers and divorce coach want us to cancel the divorce for now! When do you hearl of divorce lawyers firing their clients!

I am going to spend every free moment rereading DB!

And i just have to STFU!

Last edited by Oxford1; 06/25/14 11:52 AM.

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One more thing!

She also volunteered that SHE told him

" if we end up together and you think your going to treat me the way you treated XXXX( his ex-common law wife of 17yrs) I would leave so fast you would not know what hit you!"

So why not just drop him Now is my internal mind thought!

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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
So why not just drop him Now is my internal mind thought!

Because at this moment in time her fantasy is running the show.


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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
One more thing!

She also volunteered that SHE told him

" if we end up together and you think your going to treat me the way you treated XXXX( his ex-common law wife of 17yrs) I would leave so fast you would not know what hit you!"

So why not just drop him Now is my internal mind thought!



And how, exactly, is that ^^^ about "YOU YOU YOU," Oxford? confused


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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Thanks
Your post is excellent especially hearing it from a woman

This morning I was getting ready for the Gym, she was getting ready to go to our home gym and do her p90x

It was a normal morning. She looked at me and said OM is starting to drive me crazy . He never stops talking and makes me late for work. Then at work he forgets that my clients come first!

All I could say to myself was holy cr@p you tol me that I did this.
I haven't been like this in years!

Then she said I need to tell him to back off he thinks he can control me from 6400 miles away!

Wow she could not have said these things at a better time!
Everyone here is telling me back away shut up GAL and she's telling me he's making her nuts!
Then she hugs me I mean like I have not had from her in a long time. A hug that could have if we were ready led to intimacy !

As a side note the collaborative lawyers and divorce coach want us to cancel the divorce for now! When do you hearl of divorce lawyers firing their clients!

I am going to spend every free moment rereading DB!

And i just have to STFU!


And so I looked her square in her eyes, and calmly and firmly said "_______, I will say this only once. Please do NOT discuss your boyfriend with me while we are still married. It's incredibly disrespectful not only to me, but to our marriage and even to our family. You're a big girl -- figure it out."




There. Fixed it for you. ^^^


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Thanks!


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I guess I thought her opening up and complaining was good

Starsky I have to memorize and practice your line inredabove


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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
I guess I thought her opening up and complaining was good





No, not even close. It's UNHEALTHY and TOTALLY DISRESPECTFUL for a wife to talk (even if it's complaining) to her husband about her BOYFRIEND.

Can you really not see that???

Do you want to convey "strong, attractive leader" to her or are you shooting for "gay boyfriend" territory?

I'm sorry to be harsh, but that's the best descriptor I can think of to describe what you're talking about here. It would be good for your wife to discuss that with her FRIENDS, or with her COUNSELOR . . . or even with you, once you two have reconciled . . . but NOT NOW!

Totally outta line, and I'm TELLING you (but you haven't listened) that she is LOSING RESPECT, LOSING ATTRACTION, and therefore LOSING LOVE for you every. single. time. you. do. that.


Starsky


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I am listening
What starts it is her being upset about something.

This leads to her admitting that she wants to limit contact.
Where I mess up is I say limit? How about no contact!?

I discussed with her this morning that we should only be focused on us

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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
I am listening
What starts it is her being upset about something.

This leads to her admitting that she wants to limit contact.
Where I mess up is I say limit? How about no contact!?

I discussed with her this morning that we should only be focused on us


You're missing the point -- again -- Ox. It's not the CONTENT of the conversations about OM. It's the very EXISTENCE of them, with her husband!!!

Where you mess up is, not cutting the conversation off IMMEDIATELY, and telling her you WILL NOT talk about her boyfriend while you are still her husband, as it's disrespectful, hurtful and inappropriate.


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I should probably add, NONE of this changes one iota of what Bond, Gabby, 25yrs and others are telling you about WORKING ON YOURSELF.

I am only adding to the conversation that element that I see is missing, and it's TACTICAL -- just a key means of communicating, and learning to set and enforce boundaries. It does not change what your STRATEGY should be, and that is to WORK ON YOURSELF, and building your own confidence and attractiveness, and working on your wife's legitimate marital complaints, and being the best father and role model you can be for your kids!


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Thanks Starsky your a great coach!

I am going to really work on this.
I have been a good role model to my kids except In this situation.

Your comments on OM are very telling. I have to just keep playing them over in my head.


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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
I should probably add, NONE of this changes one iota of what Bond, Gabby, 25yrs and others are telling you about WORKING ON YOURSELF.

I am only adding to the conversation that element that I see is missing, and it's TACTICAL -- just a key means of communicating, and learning to set and enforce boundaries. It does not change what your STRATEGY should be, and that is to WORK ON YOURSELF, and building your own confidence and attractiveness, and working on your wife's legitimate marital complaints, and being the best father and role model you can be for your kids!


My WAW has a really awful cold so I offered to take her to her court appearance for something business related. Then I spent the evening watching "The Last Ship" with my S16, she actually decided to join us and sat next to me...

It's interesting I mentioned some upcoming business meetings and she wanted the who what where and why...

I keep hearing all the comments from everyone in my thread and I just completely diverted any conversations about anything but my S16 and S21.

It was actually refreshing to enjoy an evening without relationship talk...


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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
The Tough Love thing has to be done on us BS/LBS's too.


That is exactly our point. Oxford is continually pointing at his wife and or OM for change in THEM, which he has zero control over. Plus he has his own flaws to work on and those are what his job is, not fixing her or OM.

Honestly dude, unless you get yourself straight in the head and heart (for your own benefit), this whole process will eat you alive.
You'll do plenty of damage to what's left of the relationship too.

Most of our wives not only take our hearts when they go, but they'll take our balls too if we're not wearing them at the time.



Um, not to quibble, but I'm sure how this^^ plays in.

Ox's anger has worsened things, not improved them. He needs to control HIMSELF, not others.

Ox, Start by GAL, please...you'll never detach without that and you will repeat your past dynamics too much.

Bottom line is this,

No WAS comes home to a marriage they left,

UNLESS they believe the marriage can be

better/different than before.


It's your job to demonstrate YOUR changes...How on earth will she ever believe that YOU are different/better than before,

if you continue to repeat the same destructive
(controlling and obsessive and insecure) behaviors as you have for so long?

Just stay in your sandbox and work on You...stay out of hers and for God's sake don't even think about OM's sandbox. He has his issues-- but the more you point them out, the more she'll defend him. Unlike many, you have a wife in the home to whom you could better interact (or repeat the past bad behaviors she uses to justify leaving you or wanting an OM) b/c OM is a symptom, NOT the cause...

Fix yourself and improve the dynamics between you and your wife, and the rest takes care of itself. IN short, Back off, BE the better choice.

I wasted a year of my life wondering WHY?? my h was going all "Tundra" on me. A year I can't get back. (And our marriage had once been a truly excellent one, so we never had the toxic dynamics you are dealing with...)

I could have spent that year on myself and my kids' lives and improving them...but until he actually went up there, I could not figure this out. I tried and fell and got back up again and then when he left
I realized I only had one healthy choice.

When I GAL, I finally saw the light...and my goal was NOT getting him back.

My goal was to be happy, with the expectation that he probably was gone forever.

And I did get happier, and so did our children.

So when he wanted back into the marriage/home, I hesitated a long time b/c I just was not sure I wanted to be hurt again AND also b/c I had come to like my new life quite a bit.

My guess is that I became the woman he fell in love with, again.


An update on this...she spoke to her lawyer and me mine, we actually stopped all divorce proceedings for now...I think I'll get some of my retainer back...

Folks remember she ran from me in February. She sent me a email asking for a divorce...
Now it's on hold she's in the same house as me...

I have to let her see the changes in me...not tell her about them but let her see them.

I also have to read that book boundaries that I purchased when I first found this forum..


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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
I should probably add, NONE of this changes one iota of what Bond, Gabby, 25yrs and others are telling you about WORKING ON YOURSELF.

I am only adding to the conversation that element that I see is missing, and it's TACTICAL -- just a key means of communicating, and learning to set and enforce boundaries. It does not change what your STRATEGY should be, and that is to WORK ON YOURSELF, and building your own confidence and attractiveness, and working on your wife's legitimate marital complaints, and being the best father and role model you can be for your kids!


I echo these sentiments^^... I might make your reply to your wife's complaints about her boyfriend, shorter. Mostly b/c I fear 2 things: You won't STFU after you say it b/c you'll go on and on OR you'll want her to apologize, AND OR, you'll say it with anger.

Perhaps ask her to consider the whole dynamic involved (what I think Starsky is saying is, in part, that she's treating you like her bff, and that's not sexy or showing leadership. Plus, it's wacky levels of wrong.)

Just TELL her you think "wow, w, if you put yourself in MY shoes, I hope you'd see how this is a wildly inappropriate topic. So I can't listen to it anymore so, see ya."

Thing is, then you have to STFU and leave the room. Yeah, LEAVE THE ROOM and do not act show that you are angry. Stay in control of yourself.

You are merely SHOWING her that you will not listen to that type of discussion and b/c you have given her an explanation (obvious to the rest of the "real world") there's really nothing much left to talk about...right?

Also, you have a HUGE positive that just happened, (assuming your wife agreed) to STOP THE DIVORCE.

Don't blow it now. Do NOT PUSH FOR MORE YET...

and finally, I'm going to post something you probably should have gotten before but I forgot I still had it.

It's a copy of a letter from a WAW to her h. Her h, in their case, had made some significant changes within, and he had become a better h/father.

He could not comprehend why she would still feel uncertain about their marriage.

But he admitted he'd been "kind of a jerk" before hand. More than just neglecting her (that, too) but often snapping, taking his wife for granted and being critical, moody, dumping on her as well. She had NOT been his priority.

So, just see if any of the letter from the wife, might ring true for you.

FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED,& WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET, AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

"When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M.

I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H. Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes.

So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.


Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years,
the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to 'win'.


Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to 'win'.

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.
_________________________


Another thing to think of is how "mathematical" this can be.

consistent change on your part + sufficient time = change SHE can believe in.

Good luck.

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 06/26/14 03:13 AM.

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Very pleased to hear things are headed in some kind of workable direction Ox.

25years above has summed up what I was going to say in much more detail.

My grandfather once said,
"Three sides to every story, your's, mine and the ****ing truth"

That's very true in our situations.
When it seems totally unfair that you have to fight back to win your wife from an OM, remember that few wives are straight out cold hearted b*tches.

SOMETHING made them do that. I hope, one day soon she can express what it was, amd you can use it to move forward.


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Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
Very pleased to hear things are headed in some kind of workable direction Ox.

25years above has summed up what I was going to say in much more detail.

My grandfather once said,
"Three sides to every story, your's, mine and the ****ing truth"

That's very true in our situations.
When it seems totally unfair that you have to fight back to win your wife from an OM, remember that few wives are straight out cold hearted b*tches.

SOMETHING made them do that. I hope, one day soon she can express what it was, amd you can use it to move forward.


She says it was a cry for help


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I would want a statement like that to come with something to back it up.
Just so I knew she was sincere and not throwing cliche's at me.
(I've been separating what were genuine feelings from her and what were movie lines to rewrite history in my situation. Because I've had a confusing mix of both).

I think that may help as from what you've decribed, she experienced a severe drop in respect for you.

Without that, genuine love will be difficult to re-establish.

Last edited by RedHawk98; 06/26/14 10:48 AM.

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Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
I would want a statement like that to come with something to back it up.

He has had decades of marriage and if he listens to her, he KNOWS that she has complained about things before. This did not come out of nowhere. Have you read his entire thread?


Just so I knew she was sincere and not throwing cliche's at me.

You want to test your wife's sincerity when she tells you what she needs? Really?


(I've been separating what were genuine feelings from her and what were movie lines to rewrite history in my situation. Because I've had a confusing mix of both).


You both push too much and then seize on your w's word changes like a lawyer cross examining someone, to catch them in small variations and then call them "lies" or "confused signals".

Even if or when they are hiding something, figure out if you are playing a role in that...over reacting to things that can incentive someone to deceive.

It does not make it right but for instance, I know when my brother in law flipped his lid when my sister dented the car, the next time she got rear ended, she hid it from her h.

So, who was "more wrong" In ^^that? DOES IT MATTER -- or should her h first learn to keep a cool head?

By nature my sister is very honest but after witnessing his idiotic outburst, I could see why an upset woman with a dented car would find her husband's anger the LAST thing she felt like facing..

. And trying to "catch" a wife in a mistake makes this a competition, or punitive game, not a marriage. What is the GOAL of that? It is feeling "right"? cry


Why not make the goal trying to understand what your wives are telling you? Think of it as a mission...gathering intelligence for the task...
Listen and hear what your spouse is flat out telling you.

My God, a "cry for help" is NOT to be challenged. Proof is not to be demanded of her for that remark. I think It's heartbreaking.


No woman leaves a decades old marriage and children, for a silly selfish reason alone. Something important to her was missing...and You just finished telling Ox to find out why she's left and said there must be a reason-- so when he says what she says, you want to doubt her words? WHY?

Figure our your goal and get on and stay on the path to the goal. Stop letting ego and emotions knock you off the path.


I think that may help as from what you've decribed, she experienced a severe drop in respect for you.

Without that, genuine love will be difficult to re-establish.


Oxford, I repeated the Letter to you and red hawk on his thread. though I hate doing that (repeating a long post) I notice neither of you took in the words of a WAW...

you should.


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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: RedHawk98
I would want a statement like that to come with something to back it up.

He has had decades of marriage and if he listens to her, he KNOWS that she has complained about things before. This did not come out of nowhere. Have you read his entire thread?


Just so I knew she was sincere and not throwing cliche's at me.

You want to test your wife's sincerity when she tells you what she needs? Really?


(I've been separating what were genuine feelings from her and what were movie lines to rewrite history in my situation. Because I've had a confusing mix of both).


You both push too much and then seize on your w's word changes like a lawyer cross examining someone, to catch them in small variations and then call them "lies" or "confused signals".

Even if or when they are hiding something, figure out if you are playing a role in that...over reacting to things that can incentive someone to deceive.

It does not make it right but for instance, I know when my brother in law flipped his lid when my sister dented the car, the next time she got rear ended, she hid it from her h.

So, who was "more wrong" In ^^that? DOES IT MATTER -- or should her h first learn to keep a cool head?

By nature my sister is very honest but after witnessing his idiotic outburst, I could see why an upset woman with a dented car would find her husband's anger the LAST thing she felt like facing..

. And trying to "catch" a wife in a mistake makes this a competition, or punitive game, not a marriage. What is the GOAL of that? It is feeling "right"? cry


Why not make the goal trying to understand what your wives are telling you? Think of it as a mission...gathering intelligence for the task...
Listen and hear what your spouse is flat out telling you.

My God, a "cry for help" is NOT to be challenged. Proof is not to be demanded of her for that remark. I think It's heartbreaking.


No woman leaves a decades old marriage and children, for a silly selfish reason alone. Something important to her was missing...and You just finished telling Ox to find out why she's left and said there must be a reason-- so when he says what she says, you want to doubt her words? WHY?

Figure our your goal and get on and stay on the path to the goal. Stop letting ego and emotions knock you off the path.


I think that may help as from what you've decribed, she experienced a severe drop in respect for you.

Without that, genuine love will be difficult to re-establish.


Oxford, I repeated the Letter to you and red hawk on his thread. though I hate doing that (repeating a long post) I notice neither of you took in the words of a WAW...

you should.


I read it but fairly quickly. I got the jist of it , but not the depth if you know what I mean.

Last night my wife felt like crap. She has a bad cold, but whenever she is stressed it goes right to a migraine.
That's how I kept knowing something was up or OM was going to be in the USA.

Now it's that I get this sneaking suspicion that she's looking for confirmation that if she drops OM completely that who she sees I am is true.

I have to show that the Pain of leaving me is worse then the pain of leaving OM.

I am getting more positive signs, more natural I love yours not panned.

Actually she is " violating" her own personal boundaries she set up more and more...I am talking less acting like a female housemate and more like a wife in terms of getting dressed, pecking me on the lips instead of cheek. Etc etc...


I am going to read the letter several times to get a better understanding of the entire " concept" it is trying to convey.

Oh as a side note, this morning when she did slip into OM territory I told her I did not want to hear it, it was disrespectful to us and our marriage for me to even hear the problems you are having with OM.



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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Oh as a side note, this morning when she did slip into OM territory I told her I did not want to hear it, it was disrespectful to us and our marriage for me to even hear the problems you are having with OM.

A step in the right direction.

Keep up that boundary, she will test you some more and not believe that your changes are real.


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"Even if or when they are hiding something, figure out if you are playing a role in that...over reacting to things that can incentive someone to deceive."

This is so right on target.
I know not to focus on WAW or OM, but from the "last" conversation a couple of days ago, this was her reasoning to me for being more forthcoming with me then OM.

She felt I was stronger than him and less likely to fly off the handle when she is open and honest.

I know that he goes Ape-sh33t on almost every other conversation they have.

She said he is wearing her down.

As for me I have been just biting my tongue and stfu


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Oh as a side note, this morning when she did slip into OM territory I told her I did not want to hear it, it was disrespectful to us and our marriage for me to even hear the problems you are having with OM.

A step in the right direction.

Keep up that boundary, she will test you some more and not believe that your changes are real.


Yep. Be ready for it, Ox. "I told you before, I won't listen to this. Please stop bringing it up -- period."


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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Oh as a side note, this morning when she did slip into OM territory I told her I did not want to hear it, it was disrespectful to us and our marriage for me to even hear the problems you are having with OM.

A step in the right direction.

Keep up that boundary, she will test you some more and not believe that your changes are real.


Yep. Be ready for it, Ox. "I told you before, I won't listen to this. Please stop bringing it up -- period."


Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.
I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..She waxes and wains on this...Then goes Ape Sh33t on me about our past ills in our marriage.

She says I am going to leave both of you, starts crying etc...

Then like turning on a light switch she stops quiets down, says she is going to tell him to leave her alone even if he goes crazy on her..
(If it was not for legal advice I would have tried to record her when she calls him..just to see if shes honest)

Interestingly she leaves for work says she loves me its like the entire morning never happened??

I think this is why I get caught up in her and OM. Its her confusion.

I am thinking I should add this to my 180's and just walk away when she gets like this...I just do not want to be Passive-Aggressive.


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Originally Posted By: Oxford1


Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.



You can't. She will be emotionally blocked to you. This is why everyone is telling you to WORK ON YOURSELF right now.


There will be a time, hopefully, when you can work on your marriage later. This is not that time.


Starsky


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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.
YOU cant work on it while she is communicating with the OM.
Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..She waxes and wains on this...Then goes Ape Sh33t on me about our past ills in our marriage.

She says I am going to leave both of you, starts crying etc...

Then like turning on a light switch she stops quiets down, says she is going to tell him to leave her alone even if he goes crazy on her..
(If it was not for legal advice I would have tried to record her when she calls him..just to see if shes honest)

Interestingly she leaves for work says she loves me its like the entire morning never happened??

I think this is why I get caught up in her and OM. Its her confusion.

I am thinking I should add this to my 180's and just walk away when she gets like this...I just do not want to be Passive-Aggressive.

See she was testing you to try to draw you back in.

Yes walk away when she get like that and STFU!


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Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..



This makes you look WEAK, which is also something we're trying to get you to work on. It's not an easy trick to pull off, Ox, but you have somehow managed to come across as BOTH "weak" and "controlling" all at the same time. (((rolls eyes)))

You don't ASK her to end her affair. And you don't TELL her, either (that is controlling). You TELL her that YOU cannot live in an open marriage (which you've already done, so don't tell her this again) and that you both have decisions to make.

And then you LEAVE IT, and work on yourself.

Can you see how you are simultaneously telling HER not to bring up OM, but then YOU are???


Starsky


Last edited by Starsky309; 06/27/14 01:43 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.
YOU cant work on it while she is communicating with the OM.
Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..She waxes and wains on this...Then goes Ape Sh33t on me about our past ills in our marriage.

She says I am going to leave both of you, starts crying etc...

Then like turning on a light switch she stops quiets down, says she is going to tell him to leave her alone even if he goes crazy on her..
(If it was not for legal advice I would have tried to record her when she calls him..just to see if shes honest)

Interestingly she leaves for work says she loves me its like the entire morning never happened??

I think this is why I get caught up in her and OM. Its her confusion.

I am thinking I should add this to my 180's and just walk away when she gets like this...I just do not want to be Passive-Aggressive.

See she was testing you to try to draw you back in.

Yes walk away when she get like that and STFU!


I know and I need to kick my self.
She tells me how he never shuts up, attacks me yada yada yada...

She tells me I repeat what I have told her..And she does this bbababab and makes talking gestures with her hands and says she has done this and dealt with it forever, but then admits only since her affair started.

I know she is being fed all this cr@p by OM and it drives me nuts. I get frustrated writing about it.

What he is trying to do is get her to get me angry enough to physically assault her.


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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..



This makes you look WEAK, which is also something we're trying to get you to work on. It's not an easy trick to pull off, Ox, but you have somehow managed to come across as BOTH "weak" and "controlling" all at the same time. (((rolls eyes)))

You don't ASK her to end her affair. And you don't TELL her, either (that is controlling). You TELL her that YOU cannot live in an open marriage (which you've already done, so don't tell her this again) and that you both have decisions to make.

And then you LEAVE IT, and work on yourself.

Can you see how you are simultaneously telling HER not to bring up OM, but then YOU are???


Starsky



Yes, and double yes...I actually realized that when she left for work.

Mixed messages...You know she says that I send two opposing messages to her all the time.

Even today I told her that I was exhausted, that if she feels hes the better man leave. I would use an email she sent where she admits her affair to go to the judge and get her out of the house.
she started crying and screaming that I was going to ruin her that if I took an email she trusted me with and used it to ruin her. She knows that I never wanted the collaborative divorce, I tricked her into cancelling the divorce just so I could litigate and take everything from her..She was crying like a manic person.

I said woo wait a minute I thought OM was going to feed and protect you and take care of you the rest of your life, what are you so worried about...More tears and real crying real not her manipulative cr@p...

Then she said, the truth is I hate you, I want out, after the two years even and when OM is out of the picture I just dont want to be married to you anymore do you get it.!!

So I told her fine then leave now.

This weekend pack your bags and leave.

20 seconds later total calmness, friendliness telling me shes conflicted, telling me its to volatile right now shes telling OM to stay away, if he comes anyway shes going to dump him for not listening to her..hugs and kisses me before work..

I think I am dealing with a Manic Depressive..


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Wow.

Look, I know you love your wife and all, but considering her mental and emotional state, and her unrepentant infidelity . . . and how reactive you are to it all . . .

I personally don't see how you can even BEGIN to work on your own (considerable) issues while with her. Not in her current state.

I hate to say this, but I actually think you might BOTH be better divorced, work on your own stuff, maybe start dating each other again down the road after you're both in more healthy places, and who knows, maybe you end up back together?

About 20% of divorced couples do.


Starsky


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Hi 25!!

I read your post on Redhawks thread. I read the letter you posted on mine and it really really sunk in. I swear my WAW could have written it.

The other post you put up is exactly what I have been thinking

She complains I talk to much that I go round and round. That I keep trying to convince her that OM is a fake Phony fraud (He is by the way I have proof). That there is something wrong with him that he never found Miss right in 53 years. That the Miss right God picked for him was a married woman with 2 Sons!! Its just to much of me repeating the same thing over and over..

Anyhow, the other part of your comments was the part about Protecting and size and strength.

Thatpartly is why I have focused on his fake phony fraud Military record.

She kept commenting over the past couple of years that I was in the best shape of my life. She also is in amazing shape. And yes even though she can hold her own against most men and especially women I still have almost 75 lbs of Muscle over her.

OM is 6'2 and when fat 225 now because of the diet she gave him and a medical scare hes about 185. She even said he is kind of scrawny. She does believe he has this super secret IDF move that can take down any man...He tells her things like a child would to his friends...

So he has told her that he is rescuing her from me and from America, that the relationship with him is a rebirth.

He texts and calls her ten times a day to make sure she has not been assaulted etc..meanwhile twice while shes off running with him she got hurt, one time severely enough to put her Fitness competition career into early retirement!

I can act like a caveman i know that, I can be very intimidating. She told the MC that she feels like shes trapped when we argue and can not escape.

Last weekend even though she started I stayed quiet, but she said she felt like she could not leave the car.

Now she is bringing up how last July when I knew she was in an EA and that OM was here I still had sex with her before she went to see him..How it was like rape...then she admits she had an orgasm but says it was real but I forced her to!!!!!

She said the OM tells her that I am sick and perverted because I wanted to be WITH MY WIFE...but hes not sick and perverted having an affair with a married woman.

I realize that I have to STFU and walk away and hope that she sees the ilogic I did tell her though that if I see him in our state I am going to break him in two...


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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Wow.

Look, I know you love your wife and all, but considering her mental and emotional state, and her unrepentant infidelity . . . and how reactive you are to it all . . .

I personally don't see how you can even BEGIN to work on your own (considerable) issues while with her. Not in her current state.

I hate to say this, but I actually think you might BOTH be better divorced, work on your own stuff, maybe start dating each other again down the road after you're both in more healthy places, and who knows, maybe you end up back together?

About 20% of divorced couples do.


Starsky


that why now I say she should have got an apartment I could have gone completely dark, pushed her towards OM and let her see hes a freging nut job.

Why I even fight for her anymore I don't know...


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"Why I even fight for her anymore I don't know..."

I have a theory that as the situation continues without positive progress, there comes a point in which the LBS becomes the WAS.

I believe you have to take a break from pursuing and from trying to win her back, and not only fix yourself, but take time to consider what the R would be like if she suddenly changed her mind and dropped OM and came back.

Would you be able to get past her transgressions? could you truly forgive? and not hold it over her head?

I know, for me, even while i was pursuing, and trying to save the marriage, i also realized i could not.


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Originally Posted By: KenF
"Why I even fight for her anymore I don't know..."

I have a theory that as the situation continues without positive progress, there comes a point in which the LBS becomes the WAS.

This is more than a theory, more like a truth!

And until one "lets go" their is no chance of return.


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Originally Posted By: KenF
"Why I even fight for her anymore I don't know..."

I have a theory that as the situation continues without positive progress, there comes a point in which the LBS becomes the WAS.

I believe you have to take a break from pursuing and from trying to win her back, and not only fix yourself, but take time to consider what the R would be like if she suddenly changed her mind and dropped OM and came back.

Would you be able to get past her transgressions? could you truly forgive? and not hold it over her head?

I know, for me, even while i was pursuing, and trying to save the marriage, i also realized i could not.


I have my demons. I did things that I am ashamed of.(no affairs though)
I feel I could forgive.

The issue is the fact that she fell for a fake phony fraud, and was more interested in his happy go lucky con man life style is what bothers me more than what she may or may not have done with him.


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"The issue is the fact that she fell for a fake phony fraud, and was more interested in his happy go lucky con man life style is what bothers me more than what she may or may not have done with him."

You really need to let this go. If it's not him it will be someone else.


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Originally Posted By: MrBond
"The issue is the fact that she fell for a fake phony fraud, and was more interested in his happy go lucky con man life style is what bothers me more than what she may or may not have done with him."

You really need to let this go. If it's not him it will be someone else.


I agree, but she said she was not looking.
I get hung up because he was the first man she befriended that had no relation to us, our friends, work etc...


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She called me from work like a wife would call.

Normal conversation. Tells me she loves me. I tell her I don't want to be the reason she cries. She says, that's impossible in the next 20 years she can't see something not happening that would make her cry.

So one minute she's ready to leave the next 20 years?

I guess I need to listen acknowledge and ignore all at the same time


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Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23
So what if she fell for a well to do professional business man who truly fell in love with her?

Would that make this any easier? If he was a " good guy" ?

Any guy would have been a fake phony fraud , right?


No, I would have been upset, but this is ridiculous.
Seriously if she saw him on the beach or even in town she would have either made a disparaging remark about him to me or she would have just looked the other way.

She also decided that she's not ever going to live in Israel. She likes her job, her sons and family are here and she just does not want to move there.

She then says he never wants to live here.
.
Then she says they will marry and he will do whatever she wants him to do...

She can't even convince him to not come to the USA this summer!

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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Oxford1


Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.



You can't. She will be emotionally blocked to you. This is why everyone is telling you to WORK ON YOURSELF right now.


There will be a time, hopefully, when you can work on your marriage later. This is not that time.


Starsky



Maybe it's semantics, but I think working on yourself IS ALL YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR MARRIAGE ANYHOW...(even if OM did not exist!!!)

you have issues of your own Oxford...Geez, read your own thread.


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I know she is being fed all this cr@p by OM and it drives me nuts. I get frustrated writing about it.

What he is trying to do is get her to get me angry enough to physically assault her.

_________________________



The fact that you believe this^^^ AND That it might work, says a whole lot about YOU.

Get yourself some solution based counseling, and more individual help, b/c YOU NEED IT.



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Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Originally Posted By: KenF
"Why I even fight for her anymore I don't know..."

I have a theory that as the situation continues without positive progress, there comes a point in which the LBS becomes the WAS.

I believe you have to take a break from pursuing and from trying to win her back, and not only fix yourself, but take time to consider what the R would be like if she suddenly changed her mind and dropped OM and came back.

Would you be able to get past her transgressions? could you truly forgive? and not hold it over her head?

I know, for me, even while i was pursuing, and trying to save the marriage, i also realized i could not.


I have my demons. I did things that I am ashamed of.(no affairs though)
I feel I could forgive.


Start on that now, regardless of what she does/says/feels. It's about letting go of it for your sake, not hers.

At this time, the matter of OM is consuming YOU.

The saying applies: "When you hang onto anger - to punish someone else--

it's like lighting yourself on fire...-----to get smoke in their eyes.

.



The issue is the fact that she fell for a fake phony fraud, and was more interested in his happy go lucky con man life style is what bothers me more than what she may or may not have done with him.



Hmmm, no, the "issue" is you must work on yourself.
Ox You don't sound stable or "strong" right now, not to me.

A big part of my "caveman" theory about what appeals to women is NOT about how physically strong or big you are

(though being in good health and good shape counts);

it's about the MENTAL and EMOTIONAL strength a woman can get from a man...a man we can lean on, figuratively and emotionally...that type of man or partner, is calm, not easily angered, very in control of HIMSELF, not controlling others...

Read the letter from the WAW again ----you admit you did mistreat her for a long time and you still do,

but especially the last part about you merely wanting to "win" this...and not so much about how you are in love with or fascinated by her or wanting a happy m.

You never bothered to make any changes in yourself until OM showed up, so how is it that your wife is supposed to believe in your claims of being a different new man? Can you see why she'd hesitate? I sure would.

Ox, we know this hurts...but its now officially an insane dynamic...

You don't seem to believe YOU must change significantly, and that scares me. It scares your wife too. We know this b/c she says it does and she acts consistent with that belief. So does OM, frankly.

The comments he makes may seem bizarre and outrageous b/c hey, HE is an OM!

And yet there is one other dimension to this situation, which he points out (just b/c OM is the messenger, does not mean the content of the message is false)

Ox YOU HAVE GOTTEN PHYSICAL WITH YOUR WIFE before.

Her comments about you "raping" her are alarming to me...(perceived orgasm or not...) are very alarming to me.

and the fact that you COULD ASSAULT YOUR WIFE --- is A BIG RED FLAG.

Yes, I see your wounded pride and ego all over this situation.

You admit you have long had a volatile (and probably abusive) marriage.

So it seems to me that a big part of you, maybe the biggest, just wants to "WIN"...
maybe if she left you and then dated a different OM, you would be fine...or if she stayed alone and single all her life, that would be fine.

Just wanting to keep her from THIS OM, is not the same as wanting to restore a marriage...


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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people can and do orgasm during rape...

it is a bodily function and DOES NOT MEAN they haven't been raped.

Never diminish someone who says they were raped.

power and control are not attractive qualities

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and she sounds like she is terrified to leave you...

Not conflicted but terrified to leave...like she must appease you

that's a sad commentary

That she is willing to pretend and appease you because she is afraid

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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc


I know she is being fed all this cr@p by OM and it drives me nuts. I get frustrated writing about it.

What he is trying to do is get her to get me angry enough to physically assault her.

_________________________



The fact that you believe this^^^ AND That it might work, says a whole lot about YOU.

Get yourself some solution based counseling, and more individual help, b/c YOU NEED IT.



I have been through anger management biofeedback you name it...I probably no I am the last person on earth to hurt her.

If walking away will make her happ I would do it.

I have been through so much therapy I don't even know my name anymore...

I actually believe it's Ox..


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...965#Post2477965
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Originally Posted By: figgeroni
and she sounds like she is terrified to leave you...

Not conflicted but terrified to leave...like she must appease you

that's a sad commentary

That she is willing to pretend and appease you because she is afraid


Wow wait a minute , I never assaulted my wife. I never ever hit her or anything like that never ever. We would argue, she would push me or hit me, she would walk away I would toss whatever was in my hand at her .. 99.9% of the time it neve even landed close to her.
She is rewriting history!

And the rape thing is BS.. She was wearing a lingerie, she seduced me ! I told her I did not want to be wi her she had been with other man...
The rape thing is coming from her OM because if the way the act ended ...he was hoping to get some finally as a going away present and I destroyed that.

All of the therapists including hers has said she has re written what happened. I am giving you her perception.
And I know that's all that counts.

Please don't forget. She ran away,she moved in with OM, she asked for a divorce.

It was her choice to move home, her choice to share the marital bed with me..none of this not one bit was forced on her.

If she wanted to leave tomorrow I would not stop her.

I am not looking to win! Unless you can get in my head and understand how I feel about this woman, don't tell me it's a desire to win..

I love her enough to let her go...if that's what she wants...

I have been working on me.

I came to this board to get advice on what I can do...how I can manage what's happening...
Oh she cancelled the big "D" not me!


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Originally Posted By: figgeroni
people can and do orgasm during rape...

it is a bodily function and DOES NOT MEAN they haven't been raped.

Never diminish someone who says they were raped.

power and control are not attractive qualities


One of my close family members is in a relationship with a woman who was raped at 16 by an a$$ hole she met on MySpace.

How dare anyone say I would diminish rape. I have second hand experience from knowing this terrific young woman what it is like and what she has been through. I thank god this SOB who did this to her is in prison forever..

When my wife and I were dating I can't tell you how many fights I had with guys older than me that would grab her or pinch her etc...

I am flabbergasted that I am being attacked in this way.

This pos my wife has attached to admits to things he did as a soldier to woman..strange woman prisoners etc...

To compare me to him is disgusting..

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LET - IT - GO

You really don't see how much this consumes you do you? The anger and hatred coming off of you is unbelievable. That's why you get into so many arguments with your W. That's all you concentrate on.

You keep insisting that you're the better person but you have the same anger and control problems he does. Both of you want to WIN.

If you're the better person, then BE the better person.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Originally Posted By: MrBond
LET - IT - GO

You really don't see how much this consumes you do you? The anger and hatred coming off of you is unbelievable. That's why you get into so many arguments with your W. That's all you concentrate on.

You keep insisting that you're the better person but you have the same anger and control problems he does. Both of you want to WIN.

If you're the better person, then BE the better person.


Me.Bond
I have to thank you for your insite. It's refreshing that you have me pegged in this way.

I realize what you are saying and this morning things between us have been great.

I have even bit my tongue about asking what happened when she told OM she did not want him coming to the USA and that he should keep the relationship long distance for now.
I agree I have to be the calmer more loving but independent and definitely not angry or needy guy.

I am serious when I say thank you !


W 53 H 51, S 16, S 21
33 years M 28
DD 3 Feb 11, 2014
S21 and His Fiancée move in with us 8/14
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...965#Post2477965
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