She says she's conflicted

[25yearsmlc]

"I have said to her, I would rather see you on your own then with this POS.
He is a fake phony fraud and she just does not see it."

Wow you haven't listened to anything anyone has told you. First of all, you CAN'T make her see anything that she doesn't want to. You just can't stop controlling her. And let's face it, if it's not him it will be someone else. Then you'll complain about that one as well.

"Oh , i am the real man...she says what she says to shut me up...When she commented on dumping both of us for a real man she was just trying to get me to stop."

You don't get it. By doing what you just did, shows that you aren't the "real man" she is looking for. You haven't changed. You're still trying to be controlling and are just as bad as the OM.

"I will tell you if I dont stop she will leave again..I just have to shut up."

That's not going to do any good because you can't seem to stop. AND you don't seem to want to change or stop controlling her.

"She already told OM to not cone to the US. If she is lying to me and I catch her with him....I pity him and then I will file for divorce and lock her out of the house.."

Big words. You haven't done anything. AND you haven't changed. That's why she hasn't been looking back towards you. Given your attitude and the way you talked to her, why would she want to go back to you?

I think today was bad because it was our anniversary.

YOU attached expectations and YOU went too far with your talking about the M and or the A (again). Stop deflecting responsibility away from yourself.
That's the main pattern I see through out your posts.

You feign an "insight", then pretend to want to change a flaw, but the next thing out of your mouth is a defense/excuse or "explanation" for you, again, NOT controlling yourself. Not shutting up, when it's obvious to everyone that you should is a lack of discipline/control OF YOURSELF.

For a man who wants to control others so much, you may want to start by controlling your mouth and yes, your thoughts. You let them run wild, negatively....

This morning we go into it because she started

OMG here we go w/the blame game, round#39358...

and tonight it was me.
I feel awful about it.


Well, so what? I mean, you repeat other behaviors you also feel bad about. You don't change and you don't really "take in" what we are telling you.
Process the feedback...don't just defend yourself or make another journal entry b/c then, why are we to bother giving you any feedback?

You need to get AND use tools for change. As long as you refuse to do that, you stay stuck. That's on you. I hope someday you'll own that with your sons and not have them try to shame their mother into returning home. It won't work for long anyhow, and that's best case scenario. No WAS returns home, and stays, out of shame. It's wrong and it's too painful.

If you can't let this go (and you have given every indication that you cannot ever get past this), then what is the point of her making any effort?

FWIW, I thought if my h felt guilty enough, he'd return. I was wrong.

He converted the guilt he sometimes felt (never once did I trigger it, but he'd miss the kids, or they'd hug him, etc) But MY attempts to guilt him always, always, turned into anger and blame AT ME. \

And if I had "publicly" tried to expose or shame him (b/c that's what exposure is designed to do, and involving family or friends --e.g., them writing letters, is an example of more controlling attempts and shaming...and it's the opposite of what a woman having an affair, is going to be tempted by)...My h would have felt cornered and defensive. That does not help ME.

Work on YOU and only you. She's not your job to fix or complete.

I told her that as her "Anniversary" present I would stop .
I would just stfu ![/b]

I've never heard of someone talking about shutting up...Do it already.


Even our MC said this relationship is mine to loose.
The problem is I keep thinking he is here this week.

"...I keep TALKING and TRYING TO CONTROL HER/OM"...that is THE problem. Period.

I know it's not easy to change this controlling streak, But it sure isn't complicated.

Whenever she tells me she had to work on the weekend or there is a meeting in the middle of the day it usually means he here

Who cares?? So what? How are you becoming a better man/choice? That is your task. Do you understand that?

So, What are your 180s? And your GAL?

(And please do not involve family members again...OMG that is NOT helping YOU or them)

Become a man only a fool would leave.

That^^ task will solve every solvable problem you have that is within your control. Leave the rest up to God.

CHANGE YOURSELF ASAP.

B/c you keep blaming her, and obsessing and deflecting, at your peril.

[Oxford1]

"I have said to her, I would rather see you on your own then with this POS.
He is a fake phony fraud and she just does not see it."

Wow you haven't listened to anything anyone has told you. First of all, you CAN'T make her see anything that she doesn't want to. You just can't stop controlling her. And let's face it, if it's not him it will be someone else. Then you'll complain about that one as well.

"Oh , i am the real man...she says what she says to shut me up...When she commented on dumping both of us for a real man she was just trying to get me to stop."

You don't get it. By doing what you just did, shows that you aren't the "real man" she is looking for. You haven't changed. You're still trying to be controlling and are just as bad as the OM.

"I will tell you if I dont stop she will leave again..I just have to shut up."

That's not going to do any good because you can't seem to stop. AND you don't seem to want to change or stop controlling her.

"She already told OM to not cone to the US. If she is lying to me and I catch her with him....I pity him and then I will file for divorce and lock her out of the house.."

Big words. You haven't done anything. AND you haven't changed. That's why she hasn't been looking back towards you. Given your attitude and the way you talked to her, why would she want to go back to you?

I think today was bad because it was our anniversary.

YOU attached expectations and YOU went too far with your talking about the M and or the A (again). Stop deflecting responsibility away from yourself.
That's the main pattern I see through out your posts.

You feign an "insight", then pretend to want to change a flaw, but the next thing out of your mouth is a defense/excuse or "explanation" for you, again, NOT controlling yourself. Not shutting up, when it's obvious to everyone that you should is a lack of discipline/control OF YOURSELF.

For a man who wants to control others so much, you may want to start by controlling your mouth and yes, your thoughts. You let them run wild, negatively....

This morning we go into it because she started

OMG here we go w/the blame game, round#39358...

and tonight it was me.
I feel awful about it.


Well, so what? I mean, you repeat other behaviors you also feel bad about. You don't change and you don't really "take in" what we are telling you.
Process the feedback...don't just defend yourself or make another journal entry b/c then, why are we to bother giving you any feedback?

You need to get AND use tools for change. As long as you refuse to do that, you stay stuck. That's on you. I hope someday you'll own that with your sons and not have them try to shame their mother into returning home. It won't work for long anyhow, and that's best case scenario. No WAS returns home, and stays, out of shame. It's wrong and it's too painful.

If you can't let this go (and you have given every indication that you cannot ever get past this), then what is the point of her making any effort?

FWIW, I thought if my h felt guilty enough, he'd return. I was wrong.

He converted the guilt he sometimes felt (never once did I trigger it, but he'd miss the kids, or they'd hug him, etc) But MY attempts to guilt him always, always, turned into anger and blame AT ME. \

And if I had "publicly" tried to expose or shame him (b/c that's what exposure is designed to do, and involving family or friends --e.g., them writing letters, is an example of more controlling attempts and shaming...and it's the opposite of what a woman having an affair, is going to be tempted by)...My h would have felt cornered and defensive. That does not help ME.

Work on YOU and only you. She's not your job to fix or complete.

I told her that as her "Anniversary" present I would stop .
I would just stfu ![/b]

I've never heard of someone talking about shutting up...Do it already.


Even our MC said this relationship is mine to loose.
The problem is I keep thinking he is here this week.

"...I keep TALKING and TRYING TO CONTROL HER/OM"...that is THE problem. Period.

I know it's not easy to change this controlling streak, But it sure isn't complicated.

Whenever she tells me she had to work on the weekend or there is a meeting in the middle of the day it usually means he here

Who cares?? So what? How are you becoming a better man/choice? That is your task. Do you understand that?

So, What are your 180s? And your GAL?

(And please do not involve family members again...OMG that is NOT helping YOU or them)

Become a man only a fool would leave.

That^^ task will solve every solvable problem you have that is within your control. Leave the rest up to God.

CHANGE YOURSELF ASAP.

B/c you keep blaming her, and obsessing and deflecting, at your peril.

I agree with this..

Here is my sticking point.

She tells OM not to come she needs time with me and S16..
He gets PO he tells her shes listening to my wishes, that doing that means she is Joining The Dark side!!

I know he uses those words, I have heard him use it about himself when referring to his temper.

He tells her basically that husbands and wives can not ever say things like.."i don't want you going to the strip club" or worse yet,should agree with' if you want to sleep with someone outside the marriage..then go ahead" He has no respect for anything to do with marital vows, etc...

I told her that in a way he is saying if you and he get together and marry, you have no right as his wife to stop him from going to visit another woman" I know she gave that a lot of thought.

you see I am dealing with a guy who is 10,000 more times controlling and seriously sick in the head...I am in love with a woman...who can not see this...

I am the dark side...Her faithful, loyal husband and father of her boys, and provider of her lifestyle?

But this 53 year old Charlatan Womanizer and I have found out Fraud about his Military accomplishments..he is not the Dark side!!???

[Oxford1]

Who cares?? So what? How are you becoming a better man/choice? That is your task. Do you understand that?

So, What are your 180s? And your GAL?

(And please do not involve family members again...OMG that is NOT helping YOU or them)

Become a man only a fool would leave.

That^^ task will solve every solvable problem you have that is within your control. Leave the rest up to God.

CHANGE YOURSELF ASAP.

B/c you keep blaming her, and obsessing and deflecting, at your peril.[u][/u][i][/i]

This is great I will stick it in my brain.

It is all about controlling myself.

the part about "only a fool would leave"

Is really what I need to focus on...

That will be my 180 for now..stop discussing OM!!

[RedHawk98]

As someone who has just worked this out, the OM really shouldn't be all your focus.
He is a symptom. Not a cause.

The OM is most likely the opposite of yourself and totally unsuited to your wife.
These people sneak in, fulfil your wife's needs when you aren't/or unable to, and your wife subconsciously rewires her brain to cope with any guilty feelings.
He is NOT Superman. Just a parasite.

Do whatever you have you to do to pour some water on those hot angry coals of anger. Any displays of anger just serve the OM and not you.

Spouses don't return when you're bashing them over the head with morality either.
As much as people seem to think it does.

Do what works and be patient. Try not to validate her choices for her though. That is the fine art.

[Oxford1]

So, are you in Reconciliation?

I am confused?

[RedHawk98]

God no! Mine is shot to hell.
I got angry and exposed the whole thing to her family and friends.

I'm just advising against making the same mistakes out of hurt and anger that I did.

[Oxford1]

As someone who has just worked this out, the OM really shouldn't be all your focus.
He is a symptom. Not a cause.

The OM is most likely the opposite of yourself and totally unsuited to your wife.
These people sneak in, fulfil your wife's needs when you aren't/or unable to, and your wife subconsciously rewires her brain to cope with any guilty feelings.
He is NOT Superman. Just a parasite.

Do whatever you have you to do to pour some water on those hot angry coals of anger. Any displays of anger just serve the OM and not you.

I AGREE WITH YOU so much here!!

Spouses don't return when you're bashing them over the head with morality either.
As much as people seem to think it does.

Do what works and be patient. Try not to validate her choices for her though. That is the fine art.

Understood. I have to really focus on me.
This morning when she left for work she kisses me good-bye and says I love You, but in the back of my mind I know the minute she turns the corner shes calling him from her mobile phone..and will tell him the same thing...

I need to completely drop anything to do with him from my life and my thoughts. I have to act like he never existed.

I don't think he can drop me. I think he is more threatened by her relationship with me then anyone will ever know.

It is she and I that are seeing this MC as a reltionship coach, seperately but its about us. When WAW gets upset she does say she is going to leave both men..She never says me for him!!

The thing that I have to remember is that she left me. she moves away, she came back.
Then after her last trip she said she was getting an apartment. The MC convinced her to stay...we all know no one can convince you to do anything you don't want to.

Its as if she was conflicted and needed an independent party to tell her to stay.

Even my S16 psychiatrist believes my Wife comes back for me and uses Son as an excuse.

SO shes here, shes in OUR home, she is with me most of the time...

I just have to ignore the OM.

[Oxford1]

God no! Mine is shot to hell.
I got angry and exposed the whole thing to her family and friends.

I'm just advising against making the same mistakes out of hurt and anger that I did.

Oh sorry to hear that.

The exposure thing, someone did it on my behalf without my approval. I have had to fight to retain composure for her and me over this.

But honestly the exposure of OM he deserves it. He uses his Career as a way to meet married woman. He should never ever be allowed to lead a tour of the Holy Land Again...but thats wishful thinking...

[RedHawk98]

One more thing!
Be very careful of absorbing too much of the internet advice and concepts of WAW, WS, Affair Fog etc.
While these are valid, never let it over take YOUR own knowledge and perception of your situation. Use it as reference, not as an overall guide.

We all coming looking because we're lost and want anything to help the pain stop.

Just set up some fundamental boundaries. Of what you absolutely will not tolerate.
Stick to them. But don't ever react to those being crossed with ANGER.
You're giving them both ammo to shoot you with.

Her head is most likely all over the place like my wife's is.
Mine was too.

Be the stable one.
Affairs rarely last man. They're built on nothing but lies and fantasy.

[Oxford1]

One more thing!
Be very careful of absorbing too much of the internet advice and concepts of WAW, WS, Affair Fog etc.
While these are valid, never let it over take YOUR own knowledge and perception of your situation. Use it as reference, not as an overall guide.

We all coming looking because we're lost and want anything to help the pain stop.

Just set up some fundamental boundaries. Of what you absolutely will not tolerate.
Stick to them. But don't ever react to those being crossed with ANGER.
You're giving them both ammo to shoot you with.

Her head is most likely all over the place like my wife's is.
Mine was too.

Be the stable one.
Affairs rarely last man. They're built on nothing but lies and fantasy.

I have decided to end my affiliation with TAM.

The issue is someone exposed my wife on CV. She was page two on google.

Now we were called by one of those companies that push it down, we told them we could not afford them and she is number one page one when you google her name.

She is a medical professional..this is going to push her to leave me to go to the OM country.

I am scared to death of this !!