mlc rut

[Ggrass]

Hey Pbetra

Throw in a tilt-a-whirl and then you have a pretty accurate description of living with a mlcer. The only way to avoid the nausea and dizziness is to get off the ride. Step off. Rip up your tickets. Let him ride alone.

Please do not let his behavior stop you from going out and having fun more often. My h is the same. He goes and has his life but doesn't want me to have mine.

Nods uh huh! I know that feeling, been living it for years.
It's ok for him to accidentally pack up and head away for the weekend but me to spur of the moment do something's not ok.

[pbetra]

Thx Matt,

Reading your reply w/ a 'cuppa joe.' I needed a smack of reality & msg w/'good sense'.

>>>when the MLCer is still at home .. My W became very depressed about 7-8 years ago.<<
I don't know how you did it! Really! The MLcer is so toxic, it's living with the toxins all the time (which is eventually going to make you sick).

I rationalize, read the advice etc - tell myself - Anger is like poison & expecting the other person to die -'stuff'/self talk like that, deep breaths, keep the PMA going ... but, oh my God, it's so exhausting when you don't have space from it. Like you, I have to manage tight financial sitch. I think that if my funds were in better shape that I would feel better, more secure & of course $$ gives freedom to occasionally escape from day to day activity. The financial strain is killing me these days Matt. Sometimes I get scared - that's another set of thoughts that I must fight or else they woudl 'cripple' me. It's nice out, so I may do my flowers - thye're always bright (!!) aromatic ... & they're good 'listeners' too! They never interrupt

>>felt badly and "made up" with me later. In other words, she recognized that she was acting out, blaming the wrong thing for her bad feelings.<<
I have witnessed this - sometimes it's real, other times, it's an act. He's good. Knows the honey/vinegar application & techniques. All a nest of lies & 'theatre' - this illness. In one of the homework threads - can't think now (but will try to locate for ref. (amyc, braveheart?!!), the discussion centered around if MLC is mental illness or not. The writer believed that it was not, b/c the MLCer functions etc. Well, I no expert ... mental illness is VERY broad since the psyche, the mind is so complex. I look at H & do feel that it IS mental illness that we are bombarded with. These are not the behaviours of mentally stable people. So what if they function in other ways? Even Ted Bundy had friends, had a job ... & "Ted" was 'real sick'!

>>During these times I felt ready to just quit (not always but a person can only take so much). But I knew she wouldn't be able to care for herself. That she didn't have a job or income and I couldn't leave her like that. It went against everything I always stood for, who I was as a person. I have NEVER regretted this, even now that my W has left me when I needed her income more than I ever have in the 21 years we were married (really the only time) and filed for D.<<
Am listening.

>>She left me with no money (actually a negative balance in checking account), didn't care a bit about what she was doing to her D's or me (still doesn't).<<
Such a 'sweetheart'!!!

It's really complex this illness. re your post - They KNOW what they're doing is wrong sometimes, feel the guilt, may try to compensate ... I am fascinated, must admit. What a chaotic 'soup' of 'conscience' action, guilt ...behaviour, brain networks/connections & chemistry have gone haywire ... Now my own networks are running away w/me ... so I'll shut it !

>>Still, I know that I did the right thing by not just leaving her on her own back then.<<
I know you're right Matt, I do. Thx for reinforcing. So nice to hear the voice of reason, when your mind is filled with 'none'(!!), during toxic moments like these.

>>All I'm saying is be careful that you don't loose yourself and your values in reaction to what your H is doing. There may come a point where the right thing for you to do is just go and leave him to take care of himself.<<

This would would be great. It's hard to heal with the 'problem illness/toxin' all around, but time + detachment = insulation from MLCer is the formula around here! The other issue is that this is MY family property. It isn't much - in need of good reno but mortgage paid for etc. My father had set up account for me years ago (to get me started). When online banking became a reality, I put what I could (which was 'sporadic' & not much - but that's what we live on now. Health expenses paid from parents 'health related savings & can't be touched! While at my family property, I do it all - physical work (indoor & out), I pay all bills).

This is one of the 'best case scenarios' of cake eating at it's finest & doormating at it's best! I often feel stuck! I hope that he gets enough income to make it on his own SOON. I can't think. I want to 'breathe', clear my head, further my plans & move FORWARD. It's hard with the constant cake eating, diminishing funds, intrusion of MLC madness & debilitating fatigue that I experience some days. The other day was one of my lowest after gallant efforts to deal with this for the last few months.

My old home is now 'new' to me b/c so much has changed in comp. to when I was a little kid! It seemed good to move here b/c 1 - we had place to move to, 2 - parent (we were close to) had also suggested we come back to not be alone (life was getting harder alone as elderly person (bad things/security concerns accidents were happening w/senile dementia .. many in kitchen!). 3 - h had friend here advising him that work sitch was much better than where we were & encouraged him to start networking. There was no more opp. where we were), so we 'pooled' our resources as a family. We were all close anyway (hard to imagine that now!). All that was vaguely familiar to me had changed, including the few connections/friends my family had. It was like a foreign country. People moved on & out. It's strange but socially it worked out more for him - starting with 'friends of the friend'. I was alone here, with MLC in my future to contend with. I am alone with all *3 dependents ... financially & concerning caring/home keeping (*dependents: a parent, a child & my 'teen' MLCer).

>>Make sure that you have truly reached that point before you do something that you may regret later. Believe me, I just had a bout with thinking that maybe I should be "playing hardball" with my W (had some people I work with tell me that is what I should be doing and for a moment I started to question myself) so I get where you are at right now. Just be sure that you don't do something you may look back on and wish you hadn't!<<

Thx Matt, I know you are right. We really have to be mindful of what we do NOW b/c of 'consequences' (?) 10 yrs away ... 5, even a few months. The concscience (re: those who still have one) is a funny thing. Intentions, plans & actions find 'little cubbies' to reside in for a while, and when the host, 'us' is totally relaxed & going about life, the consequences for those actions emerge from their many hiding places. Who are we running from? We can't run from our conscience if we did something to cause the horrible demise of another. The MLCer can't run from themselves (part of their problem) they can run from us, but cannot escape themselves. With guilt we could experience the same I suppose. Again, my mother would support your advice b/c at the end of the day, I have to live WITH MYSELF!
Oh Ooooo no how much longer?!)

>>Hang in there. I hate to see you hurting so much. I understand how hard GALing is when low on funds...I'm in that spot right now myself, but try and find some things to do to get out and be with other people, away from H's craziness even for just a bit. It will really help.<<

Am hanging Matt! Haaaaa n g ing I know if there is anyone who can relate to the financial strain in 'this mix', it's you. I appreciate this really. When the sitch is a little stiffling, it's great to read objective feedback 'independent of self.' Thx again - will e-see you at your thread later today. I realize that a lot has happened but need to complete reading before any reply of course.

Have a good day to you as well Matt, pb

[pbetra]

Hey Pbetra

Throw in a tilt-a-whirl and then you have a pretty accurate description of living with a mlcer. The only way to avoid the nausea and dizziness is to get off the ride. Step off. Rip up your tickets. Let him ride alone.

Please do not let his behavior stop you from going out and having fun more often. My h is the same. He goes and has his life but doesn't want me to have mine.

Nods uh huh! I know that feeling, been living it for years.
It's ok for him to accidentally pack up and head away for the weekend but me to spur of the moment do something's not ok.

-------------------

Been living it for years Ggrass? Ouch!!! How Ggrass, how?!! Sometimes, I feel I can't live another hour!!
YOU will be my inspiration! (just replied to Matt - same w/his W, YEARS!!?).

>> ok for him to accidentally pack up and head away <<
Interesting little buggers, aren't they? found out 'buddy' here has been checking my GAL activity re: my phone! didn't do it when I had nowhere to go - now it's the questioning, all 'da rage' ... & phone checks. I'm on it though! 2 can play ... thx for 'connecting' - feels somewhat reassuring!

How have YOU been Ggrass?

[pbetra]

just making a note right now.

Organizing cupboard, getting school things ready & found h dressed to go out. he was eating (food I bought & cooked) which saves hm $$ sometimes re: having to pick stuff up. clearly rushing - there was a phone conversation about a gathering that he's going to - "mind if I stay at your place until logistics are worked out with ?" Didn't seem as if he knew this person too well.

He was very nice to me, always is ... asked me if I needed help (that's new, started about 3 days ago)Let me know he was leaving for a gathering and would help on return.

Recent observations:
-> all job prospects are in the crapper. including one he came closest to!
-> seems to have lost shoes (?) went in one set this past week, returned w/another!
-> evidence of drinks in car (with straws). looked like 'woman's drink (?). generally speaking, men don't use these skinny, colorful straws
-> few months ago - the very **LAST time we were out together, I got food poisoning. I was brought home, undressed with all the love and attn. one could hope for. h helped me undress to my underwear to be comfortable, complete with cover - oh so loving! I was then unceremoniously left on the bed as he scurried quickly back out (!) Sick, I could hear the car in 'full throttle', URGENTLY scooting back to the clubs!

Just recently, I found a receipt dated about 3 weeks after that incident. Turned out to be the same eating place ... for 2 customers, including wine! (it was a fluke ... I thought God really does exist (!), as the wind gusted through the windows, providing me with something more tangible. It was almost like a movie. (And where there are excessive lies, there are mistakes) Moral: Liars should always purchase really good paper weights ... for whenever hasty!
So EA/PA/OW is confirmed. h has "no money, & no place to stay" as echoed last night like a victim - so tough for him here with the tons of cake eating.

My real dilemma though is that my munchkin "wants the family" - I made a casual joke about moving on... to test the 'kiddy waters' (didn't think it funny as at!!) I don't think that it would be easy for child to handle another loss issue just 1 year apart at this time.

I am thinking so much as my deadline approaches ...
I am thinking of going 'darker' somehow (before I was dim, PMA & supportive, with a GAL, which may be on life support soon). Going dark is going to be hard in this space!
I will ask for monthly contribution toward expenses? What do you think? That's fair - he said he had "no money", so no wonder the secrecy to cover up what he does manage to obtain! But he gets it from somewhere! I know it isn't enough for him to 'make it' out there - But I would like some of the money - he's not the one facing the bills. Am I making any sense?

Children complicate matters so much ... pb

-------------------------------------------
** re: 'stare'
- I always wanted to ask! Witnessed it that ('sick') night! And it was weird! I often wondered about it. Does anyone know more about this? what does it mean? What are they thinking or why do they stare? What is going on?

Just a thought - I used to feel bad about commenting on his stuff, as he would NOT like this, but it's all the truth - & mlcers don't feel bad about lying anyway.

[BrightFuture]

I can relate to the financial strain. I was out of work for 1 year, and dealing with the sitch at the same time. I had no money coming from any source during this time. In the past, when I was in between the projects, I could rely on H. We supported each other and each other’s backs. I didn’t have that anymore when I was out for work last year. I started working about 3 months ago, and it feels good. I gained all my confidence back, that I can take of myself and survive whatever comes my way.

It must be very hard to live with the MLCer who openly has this much disdain for you and blaming you for his misfortunes. I didn't see much of that from my H, since he was gone. Actually he just didn't come home from his work in another state. This is probably why I think that he was not that bad. But, I don’t know that for sure. He is such an actor and can hide his feelings pretty well.

Your H behaves like a teenager now. It’s like not wanting to live with his “mom”, but having no other means to exist, but also blaming “mom” that he is “stuck” with her. Poor boy… Not! I would ask him to contribute to the bills. If he says that he has no money, ask him what he thinks the solution should be then. I’m curious what answer he comes up with. Will he say that he expects you to cover for him?

[pbetra]

Your H behaves like a teenager now. It’s like not wanting to live with his “mom”, but having no other means to exist, but also blaming “mom” that he is “stuck” with her. Poor boy… Not! I would ask him to contribute to the bills. If he says that he has no money, ask him what he thinks the solution should be then. I’m curious what answer he comes up with. Will he say that he expects you to cover for him?

Thanks BF for the explanation ("mom") - very clear. The 'teen' is asleep now having come back from 'the event'. Came in, changed, drank something and passed out. A real teenager! Unbelievable. As for your suggestion - will approach him this way - & keep it 'light & casual' Thx u .

It's great that you're working now - it does make a huge difference.

It must be very hard to live with the MLCer who openly has this much disdain for you and blaming you for his misfortunes. Yup! And h comes from a family of 'blamers' ... even without MLC! Always external blame & criticism. Self esteem issues at the core.

he just didn't come home from his work in another state. This is probably why I think that he was not that bad. But, I don’t know that for sure. He is such an actor and can hide his feelings pretty well.

Wow - that must have been rough, a 'no show'! I agree with you though - I do think that they are great at acting, hiding their feelings. I don't know if its b/c they just don't care, don't have much of a conscience re LBS. With h it's like a switch for the role he wishes to play.

You're working now BF. Get back to you GAL efforts. This MLC stuff is rough on us - we exist within a certain continuum of expectations & predictability with our spouse. It's the 'beat' of life. Our mindset is set up for it - then out of nowhere, the bomb interrupts the continuum, breaks the surface tension - all without warning! It's no wonder we feel like this.

Get back to GAL - It really does help! i hope that you can break th edepression to get the inertia going. Beginning is tough, I know ... i 'say'/type the words but we all know it's challenging.
Take care, pb

[pbetra]

Been trying to complete post but typically called away for some reason or the other!

BF - Q.>>I would ask him to contribute to the bills. If he says that he has no money, ask him what he thinks the solution should be then. I’m curious what answer he comes up with. Will he say that he expects you to cover for him?<<

Well, I asked BF! So predictable - "no money" (I believe it too). I could see that it's all 'blown'(!), h has not been clubbing too much recently. I suspected when I realized he's home nights. Can attend private events/parties but all night nightclubs etc are costly. His eyes were red (& sad). I assumed that this may have to do with overall 'condition,' withdrawal re: alcohol etc (?) 'out there,' lack of sleep' ... the eh 'lifestyle' Or maybe it just was being 'grilled' by me as perceived by him

H can't think of a 'solution' right now btw (I was not entirely surprised). It was as if he was dumbfounded. A few hundred $ should pop up in a few months so I will revisit & try to claim before its all gone ... Anyway, after telling me that he has no $ "in the world right now"... related like a bit the 'sob story,' I said ok & ended it (remembered GGG & the amount of STFU juice to be consumed (!!) when in doubt or 'welling up. Also the need to 'stop' & /or just walk away. Sooo, I did. Did not wish to belabour the point or hear any more crap or excuses. I could feel 'my temp.' rising ...

With the past weekend behind me & after some reflection re: the last few months:, I 'modified' 2 things. 1 - sex, & 2 - altering of 'dimmer' to a little darker. h acting skills flat out confuse me (!!). He's good. I don't always trust what I see & hope I will not mess up (or haven't !!) any concealed 'baby steps' in this pile of 'mlc dung'.

Two modifications
1 - Intimacy eval:- I tried to keep this up since BD to stand 4 M./family (although frequency did become more and more erractic, also declining last few months). I read that HeartBlessing kept sex life alive during her marriage, so I tried.
I am trying to go *'cold turkey' re intimacy. Don't know if *good idea, but will see ... There is no R talk. He may eventually ask about 'sex sitch' ... or not. I will do him not 'us' for now ... I have to think of how I would handle (H is very sensitive re sex). I know he is NOT ready for R talk and do not wish to interrupt the natural mlc progression within tunnel.

2 - Dark, darker .. Had tried 'dark' at one point but maybe the time was not right (?). My sensitive h. read it as total indifference or (God knows what). HB had similar sitch where handling her h was oncerned. I had to 'correct the darkness' as I was trying to save m. Have only just started to go a little darker at this point of the MLC continuum, so I have no idea how h will respond med->long term this time around.

I got a response re 1, 2 but instinctively know that h definately cannot handle any serious discussion, in spite of his 'heighten attn.' toward me. There is constant testing to see if I will accept sex ... which I am turned off from - just feel used (so I do him, he pressures me to do us but I haven't done us since d -/decision day).

I need a break from all this before I dive into the next 6 months:

• the 'veiled' contempt (there is ongoing change with h, but! ...), AND also the disrespect shown (masked with GREAT acting. Have occasionally fallen for this. I really can't decipher sometimes)

• recent 'over interest' re sex (since 1 &2), is insulting my intelligence (h feels that by giving sexual attn. it reassures me that things are good, that I am fooled & flattered somehow - his tactic to keep relationship somewhat 'normal' until he finds 'better' ... u know, throw a 'crumb' occasionally to keep security here)

• just feeling flat out used while in survival mode ... used 4 sex when not getting through 'out there', used financially (he must despise me even more at times b/c no one likes to 'need' the person they have issues with, it compunds prob.!)

Fiinancial sitch/GAL:
I haven't been able to go out very much recently. This made h get more 'comfortable' again (but I did do hobbies, stay busy in the meantime ). He goes some days to do 'stuff' & I am here most times as I am also 'part time carer', as you read by now. This must translate to very 'domestic' b/c I have no help - If i don't take out garbage, it stays there, yard etc. This is his 'visual' of me, 'domestic'. I try to fix hair etc. and many times, I keep things up but other times, I simply feel really very drained. This reality in addition to looking at the past 6 months made me question how to approach GAL re $. (Had to turn down invitation up 2 last night - too costly)

I spent a ton re: school term, & some house repairs before then (Summer) and ongoing health costs have to be budgeted for. I simply cannot go out very much right now. Have to recover some funds through saving where I can for a while.
Anyway, in an effort to go darker, I wondered what I could do. I remember just wanting to get away, or hoping h would go somewhere one day. I did NOT want to see him those few days - just felt that way. I needed to find somewhere to go.

Walk
The next day, when the part time helper arrived, I told h I had to go out. Just began to walk - I didn't know to where. This area is suburbia with quiet spots here & there. I looked for quiet but SAFE. It was there that I let my emotions free where he could not see. I cried. I thought, 'what have I come to?' ... out here with eyes peeled b/c life is funny, & in my efforts to sort things out, something bad could happen in this isolated place ... all b/c I needed to GAL re him, & get away for me. I sat under a really nice tree tho'. When I was done crying (I think from a little frustration), I took out some books. I left with my db books, so I read under this tree. I was lucky, the day was absolutely BEAUTIFUL & I soon felt better!

The quiet was eventually interrpted by a truck that had parked not too far and some construction workers. With the growing noise, I left and looked for another place to settle. Just walking ... 'Found' another tree and continued reading DBs (did the other 'db,' deep breathing in between). After a while, I was tired. Remembering to 'wear' my PMA, I went back home. H was there - I thought he was gone for most of day to his buddies or 'something' & was surprised that he was back. The helper said he returned shortly after I left! (Whew!)

H was 'happy' to see me (big surprise here, so predictable ). Curious. Chatty - asked me to come (!) to guest room after putting my things away (this was off limit zone, need for 'space'!). We just talked ... for quite a while! Very chatty. Next day, h approached re intimacy. I declined. Later that day, was awakened during night (!) re 'more urgent' intmacy, all frisky & 'ready to go' (whaa ?!!) ... 'did him' (no 'penny'). More (!) chatting next day ... all tender, ... touchie that day. I was nice but kept my distance.

No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path. Buddha
Every day, I'd find an errand to run (or 'walk'). Although it's tiring, I did it. Sometimes just a walk to feel what I need to - freely or pop into drug store .. anything. h has been warmer, touches here & there. I know that he has sensed that I am indifferent re sex. He is pursuer again (go figure), so the two things brought about this slight change in behaviour (ie my change re sex + leaving for MOST of day, practically every day - being busy). Been roaming like a nomad!! Will back on the road again /like Willie N. sang ... Leaving and not knowing where I would end up! Tired but remembering to return all PMA outwardly even if inwardly 'busted' ... I think that another poster 2Bhappy (?) don't think it was BF, said similar (about tired of having to go somewhere). H will not be able to take the 'neglect' /sex much longer. Would be interesting to see reaction. I imagine he will distance himself in anger ... or 'in depression'.

H overall demeanor in comp. to the many months seems a 'bit' improved. However, I have not outruled the possibility of 2-faced action. That is talking on phone negatively like a teen so that the 'saviour buddies' could come out to rescue him - inviting him to parties, bar b ques, 'meet ups'/events here, there & everywhere b/c he needs to get away from me - the enemy. Its all SOS! On the other side, he's singing another tune here. I cannot recall if I mentioned that a 'caller' (one of the new 'gang' of friends who he spent time with last last weekend), offered some sort of apt. solution. The caller was obviously sympathic to h 'suffering in silence' here, having no options but to suffer. Interestingly, h turned it down! I guess he won't get a doormat there - maid service & a cook etc etc ETC!!!).

I understand the mlcer experiences mixed feelings as they really do not know what 2 do. He's been reaching out (!!?? what? ) ALL week. 'Reassuring touching', stroking/face etc. I even got a kiss (!) goodbye like old times recently. Sadly, I do not trust anything b/c I know that even if (by some FLUKE) he feels something, that even h also doesn't know WHY, & it won't last. I suspect his reactions are self serving. I suppose it's selfishness & survival at the core for him right now - h has been hinting at needing toiletries, new casual flats b/c current ones are old ... car stuff (for a car that is used to take others out - up to recently when I was left behind just 'feelintg' the excitement & knowing I was not part of it - I would have liked to go! (am not afraid or too proud to admit that, as I go from one 'to do' list to the next). Thought bubble > "Buy your own car stuff!" (Im saving to get my own car next year or 2). The house is warm. I pay lights for household, utilities etc which benefits everyone. He should get his own toiletries etc. Also hinting at holiday party (we had a lovely one last year when we were a family). He invited the people he met, their connections etc, or networked with. I planned, decorated and cooked my favorite Holiday recipes! The holidays will be different .. but I hope to make it good for me & munchkin, "c".

Child, (c)
So here I am, still standing after 6 months, & now 're-standing,' embarking on the next cycle of doing all, paying all. Geriatric care, mother to acting out c. and discarded, used 'w' & enemy. My child/'c.' grew clearly scared when I casually responded to him (child had remarked that h seemed to be "having more fun but not w/us" a few months ago. It was an observation he made when he saw h talking & laughing with others in general). I said "maybe we could just let dad go w/his new friends for while .. to have fun, figure out what he likes?" vaguely, jokingly, light-heartedly ... something to that effect. For awhile??!! What was I thinking? c didn't like it at all! "Wants the family together" blah blah blah ... face getting red with emotion, eyes 'welling up' - I had to reassure immediately! c had been through this a year ago with the last loss event. There has been a lack of stabilty for many years. I saw the fear re: c with possibility of yet another life event - the possible loss of dad this time. Realizing it was too much as c has barely gotten over other events, I HAD TO remedy this one 'real quick'. Lots of hugs (!), kisses, TLC, PMA ... time together and talking.

I would like c. to 'stabalize' a little more - to be less sensitive, needy, insecure. Very self conscious child as well. Wish c could have t NOW. I want t. (!!) for myself of course, but as an adult I still have 'outlets' like these. I can vent here, I can read books on midlife, depression, etc I can help myself as an adult until I can do better. Sometimes, I don't feel that I am helping c enough. Lots of love & support - hope it's 'enough' ... so impressionable.

btw - apart from db books, got Conway, some on depression, Susan Anderson's, Journey From Abandonment To Healing on the the way etc! Also bought one of recommendations, Ackerman's Silent Sons (written 'by a man, for and about men,' for c.'s 21st birthday ) should I pass. I have signed it & will leave it for his 'future self' (c. is primary school age but it might be a good read going into 1/4 life ;0). I do not want 1/4 life or mlc to rob c. of peace in future if I can help in multiple, little ways NOW.

I will end here (finally after many attempts! ) c is talking to me & I can't really really really really (etc)... hear my self think! pb
(can't re-check now, sorry re any typos)

[AJM]

I understand the mlcer experiences mixed feelings as they really do not know what 2 do. He's been reaching out (!!?? what? ) ALL week. 'Reassuring touching', stroking/face etc. I even got a kiss (!) goodbye like old times recently. shocked Sadly, I do not trust anything b/c I know that even if (by some FLUKE) he feels something, that even h also doesn't know WHY, & it won't last.

The saddest part of all of this is the reminder that when the storm passes, it's the LBS that makes the decisions. By saddest, I mean it is for the MLCr. They may or may not wake up in time to stop their destructive behavior. If and when they do, the LBS may not be anywhere around. Or at least be inaccessible.

If and when he wants to come back to the M, there will be touch and go's most likely. For the LBS, we don't allow for the connection because we have been hurt before. We shut down. Slowly, almost imperceptibly while the MLCr cycles like a madman trying to push/pull/heal.

I think it's fair to say that you don't trust him or anything about his actions. I don't blame you. I'm not suggesting you should, but when you look down the road do you see a possibility? If you saw that possibility, what would the first steps look like? How would you react if they occurred?

I know for me it would be next to impossible to be overly cautious or too careful. But I'm not sure that's the best reaction, ya know?

I like the idea of going for a walk. I find that exercise is incredibly helpful. And the weather lately has been incredibly nice over most of the country. Always nice to get out and breathe

AJ

[pbetra]

I understand the mlcer experiences mixed feelings as they really do not know what 2 do. He's been reaching out (!!?? what? ) ALL week. 'Reassuring touching', stroking/face etc. I even got a kiss (!) goodbye like old times recently. shocked Sadly, I do not trust anything b/c I know that even if (by some FLUKE) he feels something, that even h also doesn't know WHY, & it won't last.

The saddest part of all of this is the reminder that when the storm passes, it's the LBS that makes the decisions. By saddest, I mean it is for the MLCr. They may or may not wake up in time to stop their destructive behavior. If and when they do, the LBS may not be anywhere around. Or at least be inaccessible.

If and when he wants to come back to the M, there will be touch and go's most likely. For the LBS, we don't allow for the connection because we have been hurt before. We shut down. Slowly, almost imperceptibly while the MLCr cycles like a madman trying to push/pull/heal.

I understand AJ. Maybe I have shut down a little. I tried so hard esp. in beginning (we ALL did!) ... On some level, my timeline was my personal reprieve I guess. A time to take a breath! This shutting down (even if minimal - 'best case scen'.) can b risky b/c with mlcer there is no 'hard timline', & some are so sensitive! Will tread carefully, THINK MORE today when my mind is a little clearer. Just wrapping up some things & going to take a break before school ends.

I think it's fair to say that you don't trust him or anything about his actions. I don't blame you. I'm not suggesting you should, but when you look down the road do you see a possibility? If you saw that possibility, what would the first steps look like? How would you react if they occurred?

You're right, there is a possibility. That's a good question - And some of h first steps would be similar to reaching out like this. That's what I found confusing though - I didn't think that mlcers are authentic at the '6 month point' anyway (been reading - change can take from 1-2 yrs PLUS!) Just the day before I 'tweaked' my behaviour, h was his USUAL mlc 'teenage' self!

What h started doing a few months ago was to slip me the safe stuff vs total exclusion/isolation as he initially did.
Eg a 'tactical' move would be to include me > to ask me along to pick up some chinese food or 'something', or approach re intimacy or to chat to which I would respond, always being nice. With that out of the way, he had me fooled in his mind, checkmarked off his list (necessary since he can't support himself right now).

So he came to me as usual to compensate for the 'fab weekend' of which everyone was part, but this time I was not available for anything. Period. So he approached again the next day - etc (already written in previous post). I guess h was thinking he had it 'covered' in that adolescent mind of his (!), but my deadline was reached & the pattern had changed. Now he KNOWS that something is amiss, & he begins to attempt to rectify problem. His survival depends on it.

Like I said, I'm just thinking that no mlcer can genuinely change in 6 months & certainly not in a day! The 'love' that I am receiving is NOT love. He does not want me or love me. If this were 1 year later +, maybe I would fall 4 it. Then again, with mlc chaos, there are no hard deadlines, & DB is about impacting MLC behaviour thro' LBS behaviour. So all in flux anyway & I have avoid 'narrow vision' due to my own perception of the 6 month h.

You have made me think about having to prepare for an effective reaction, should the opp. arise. Would hate to mess up an opportunity for partnership if this signals a baby step. I do not want to let my shutting down & immense level of distrust 'blow' it - otherwise all the effort & pain so far, would be in vain!

Thanks for giving me an 'outside perspective' - the value of feedback on the forum, when we are caught up in our own emotions.

I know for me it would be next to impossible to be overly cautious or too careful. But I'm not sure that's the best reaction, ya know?
There's a good side to the someone else's not so good. Wish I had some of that now!

I like the idea of going for a walk. I find that exercise is incredibly helpful. And the weather lately has been incredibly nice over most of the country. Always nice to get out and breathe
I've always LOVED walking, so this is great for me. It's my balm! Good for mind & body & surprisingly cost effective too!!!

AJM, thx again for your helpful reply. pb

[Matt165]

Hey pbetra!
Not a lot to add, just want to say to be careful and tread carefully. Your H is still all over the map. The phone conversation about maybe getting his own apt. comes to mind. Don't allow his "need" for you financially and his actions to secure that, give you hope he is "coming out of it". One of the things my W said to me was that one of the "reasons" she was leaving was because now that she was back working full time she felt she "could" do it. Never mind all the years that I stuck by her as the only one working. Even though I needed her income so badly for the first time ever, she only saw that SHE would be OK because the ONLY person she (or almost any MLCer) cares about is HER!

Her actions are having profound effects on her own D's. D19 is living hand to mouth because she refuses to live with her mother, D14 has been pulled from private school just when she was entering the final stretch and now feels money is a problem for the first time ever. Add that to her losing her sister being there for her, her parents getting a D, losing every friend she has ever known because her mom moved so far away, losing the only home she has ever known for half the time, having to live 7 days with mom and 7 days 30 miles away with me and never getting to totally unpack... but W feels SHE is able to leave because SHE can afford what SHE wants! That is the kind of selfishness MLCers have!

When you say you feel he may be being more interested in being intimate because he thinks this will make you feel better and "placate" you, I would listen to this feeling. I'm not telling you what to do or think. I just want you to have your eyes wide open. Keep GALing, pbetra! Take those walks. Get away from the craziness when you can!