FINALLY SURFACING

[Fartiltre]

Looking back at it all gives a totally different perspective doesn't it? It seems easy to comprehend, at the time it's like trying read a foreign laungauge.

It certainly does
I often think back to the words you posted about this last year. You told me to follow advice and to stick with the VETS simply because I didn’t understand. That changed a lot for me and I am still grateful for those words!
The funny part of this is that much of it hasn’t changed! I still don’t understand totally what I am facing in regards of W and possible R. I am much more at peace though. I have found my path for now and that have given me some kind of peace of mind and in the daily life. I still have a lot of work to do and my goal of being through this by the end of this year seems to be somewhat optimistic. Crazy to think that I believed it to be solved in a matter of days at BD
Hardest thing we will ever do – right?

[T1000]

We all want it fixed right now.

Hardest thing we will ever do? To a certain degree I think so.

It's a bit like a death (similar feeling of greif) but one that you can change...maybe...if you commit, work hard enough and it all works out.

[Fartiltre]

I “un followed” W on FB last night. It might seem minor but that was a big decision for me and I might change it back at some point. I found myself looking at how many likes she gets, who likes her posts and so on. Secondly her posts about Ds hurt because they remind me that we are not a family anymore so all though she posts about the Ds and I really like to see the pictures – it hurts more afterwards than it does good in the moment.


This morning I wrote her a short text about the Ds. She hasn’t spoken to them for more than a week and I know how that makes me feel when the opposite occurs so I decided to let her know that everything is good.

Me (8.50AM):
“Good morning
The girls are good :-)
They miss a little but nothing alarming and D7s peeing-problems seems to get better.
We can talk later
Fartiltre”

She called shortly after but I didn’t answer – I was busy doing something with the Ds.

W (11.10AM):
“How nice to get a text like that. Thanks
I almost called yesterday but thought it might do more bad than good…! They are missed very much here as well :-) but I also know you have some great days together. Say hi and give them lots of kisses and hugs”


Ds and I enjoyed the day. We went swimming and then visited friends. I had a good talk with friend about the vacation and he complimented me with something like “You are creating precious memories for your children” Made me feel good!
The deeper I look into this the more I realize that I am a WOA (5LL)…and I start to see the reason for me neglecting our R. This is certainly not an excuse for something just an explanation. W was very good at WOA but stopped at some point. Might be due to my actions or something else. We ended up in that evil spiral that consumes so many Rs. If you are not doing this for me – I won’t do that for you. Not in spoken words but in actions and as I know now, they count even more.
It seems like all these small compliments I get from friends and especially my children is doing me good – they make me feel better every time and they motivate me to work harder.

When we left friends and went home I texted W and asked if I should call her.

The talk lasted for about 20 min and I did most the talking. W asked about what we have been doing and I filled her in. She complimented my choices and told me that it all sounded fun and things like “That’s how a vacation should be”. Even when I told her that D7 and I have been watching the soccer world cup until past midnight she complimented my choice. I also told her about the Ds missing her, but also that it wasn’t too bad.
I told her about me going on vacation next week and she asked about location and who I am going with – she seemed somewhat nosey, but I told her in short what we will be doing.
The convo was very nice and once again I talked much more than usual and more than her.

We discussed what to do about the last week of vacation – W is certain that we agreed I should have the Ds. I am certain that we didn’t but told her that we will find a solution.

I asked her no Qs beyond the things she brought up.
She did once refer to one of my post on FB so something she does see.
She didn’t interrupt me even once (It almost feel like she attended a skill course in listening 1-2 months ago)

In a convo like this I feel/mindread several things. I feel her thinking:
WTF is happening – why didn’t he do that earlier on?
I feel her wanting to participate
I feel her wanting to talk. Not about R but about some of all the Qs she has in her head about what is happening to me. I feel her having Qs!
She seems less gone in a convo like this than 5 min. before.

I guess the above is positives but it is still just me guessing or mindreading.

So, focus back on me! I will see W on Sunday and does not expect to talk to her before this.
I want to make the Ds last days of vacation special and then I look forward to a guy’s holiday with a dear friend the week after.
We will visit a small city in Poland that was destroyed in WW2 and then rebuild – I look very much forward to this. I have visited Poland 10 times or so, but always on hunting tours and therefore I look forward to actually seeing a town. Afterwards we visit Berlin and that will be nice as well.

[Fartiltre]

Great today at beach with two friends and their children.
Bathing, playing, barbecue – it all!

When we left for home W was at friend drinking coffee with his wife. Ds were very happy to see her and they didn’t want to leave her. Especially D5 was sad and crying. Goodbye lasted for 15 min or more with tears all over.
I stayed out of it and let W handle it.

D4 was very sad in the car. D7 fell asleep quickly.

45 min later I received a text:
W:
“Are the girls ok?”

Me:
“Almost.
Will you give me a warning by text or call next time a situation like today can occur? Maybe we can avoid it entirely.
See you Sunday. Will 11AM do for you?
Have a nice evening :-)”

W:
“How is that – we could as easily have run into each other at the supermarket. I agree that it is so sad and hurtful. I didn’t stop crying until now myself :-(
11AM is fine. Say hi many times and enjoy the weekend.”

Me:
“We can’t do anything about the supermarket and likewise – I agree totally – but when I am at beach with [friend] there is a good chance that we will have coffee afterwards at his place. I assume you know we were at the beach ;-) If I had known you were at [Friends wife] having coffee I would not have stopped by. I am not mad or likewise. I just want to avoid that especially the girls but also you and me gets sad when it can be avoided. We can take it on the phone if you think it needs to be talked over.
Great about Sunday :-)”

W:
“Neither [Friends wife] or I thought about it. So if a situation like this happens again I will let you know”


D7 and I bought a tent yesterday and we will be camping in the garden tonight – that took of the tension and D5s thoughts about W.
She was speaking about missing, asking why W and I are not living together for some hours but when we rolled out the sleeping bags in the tent she got better.


I have some issues that need to be addressed:
W asked for the evaluation /how are Ds and we doing – talk
I am doubtful if I should take the next step towards this or just leave W with it

We need to talk about the days where one of us picks the Ds up and set them of later because of a special thing like Legoland or a family party. To me this is not the best at present time – It hurts them more than it does them good.

We need to long term plan and I need to confirm it in writing – I need my calendar sorted out and W (or I) seem to forget some agreements.

We need to find a solution to D7s wish about staying half time with me.


Tomorrow we stay at home and in the afternoon I have arranged a playing date for the Ds for two hours. I am going to try out the distance for the competition on august 2.
Saturday will be a strange day. Last day of vacation with the children.

[Fartiltre]

Just got home from the pool where Ds and I met up with W and the house is so empty now. I miss them already and I won’t see them for two weeks or so. It s!cks major!

I found myself feeling left a little outside today. Ds where naturally clinging to W after 2 weeks so she became the center of their attention – I had gotten used to be there and it is a nice place to be.
I will mind this for the future and not arrange something like today.

I felt a little awkward around W for the first time in a long time but it went ok. When saying goodbye I brought up the talk she has asked for and we agreed to do it soon. W did ask if I was busy (as if she wanted us to do something) but I had neighbors coming over for instruction on how to take care of my rabbits and ducks while I am away. I told W that I had plans and she simply said OK.

Now awaits an afternoon cleaning and packing and then an early bed! I leave for vacation tomorrow at 5AM.



Friend and I almost did the distance two days ago but I am killing myself. My avg. pulse is around 160 and that is too much – I will have to talk to my trainer about this.
I so much want to reach my goal of doing 1/10 of the ironman (400 meter oceanswim, 18 km bikeride and 4,2 km run) in 1h10m but it is going to be a close one. Competition is in two weeks.

The friend is the same as we were at the beach with few days ago and when I arrived his W came to me and apologized for the incident with W being there when we arrived. I told her not to worry and that things like this happen. That it was not her responsibility and that W and I had addressed it. She kept talking and totally agreed on the things I had said to W (without mentioning them). Friend did the same a little later.

Their reactions and my reaction when they addressed it made me feel good. I did right in telling W and I didn’t react as the old me. I didn’t put anybody down and I didn’t go back to the subject.

[sandi2]

I found myself feeling left a little outside today. Ds where naturally clinging to W after 2 weeks so she became the center of their attention – I had gotten used to be there and it is a nice place to be.
I will mind this for the future and not arrange something like today.

I simply do not understand your thinking here. You invited your W to be your guest at your home. It comes across as you being jealous of her getting so much attention from the children. Do you want to reconcile or not? B/c if you do, you need to get your act together about this type of attitude or thinking.

Both of you are jealous of your time with the girls, which is common when there is a separation. She is jealous of how you give undivided attention to the girls......as priority over giving her your attention when she wants it. But you are just as jealous when she is the center of their attention!

You are still wanting to cling to the "rules" applied when she first left you. Remember, you have to readjust or shift according to your stitch as it is presently. I see the main problem being you can't decide if you really want to be with W now or not. You keep saying you are not ready and need to work on yourself more. You struggle about what you see as her cake eating verses working toward a possible reconciliation.

It is great to continue working on yourself. We should never stop working to improve ourselves! But I am wondering if you are doing the same thing you did about getting married. It was never the right time b/c you thought the R needed to be better before making it official. Do you see what I am trying to explain? It's kind of like waiting until you can finacially afford to have children. You never reach that point. You waited too long about finding the perfect time to get married. Now you are waiting until you are more improved before considering reconciling. In the meantime, you waffle back & forth between keeping her closed out completely and leaving open a tiny little crack.

One major thing on her part was & is her wanting to continue family times. I believe you proved to her this was not going to happen after she left you. I think you did a fantastic job, btw. Both of you struggled and suffered through that period, before she saw she wasn't going to have it both ways. Then the communication became very strained b/c you pulled way back and was unavailable to her frequent texting, etc. That was exactly what you needed to do, at that time. Down the line, the two of you began to butt heads and her frustration was clearly seen, which was expected. So then you see a switch in how pleasant she responds in her conversations. Almost as if she may be trying to tear down a wall between you? IDK.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I believe you have done a wonderful job! I am only stating my observations. It is difficult to know where she stands. She has not given any hints, that I can see, of wanting to reconcile. I believe she stills longs for family times. I also believe she has learned you are not going to bend her way easily. She has not been able to have you as her "friend". Do you agree and feel this has been accomplished? Do you feel you need to prove anything further alone these lines? Do you believe she has learned it didn't turn out the way she thought it would when she left you?

When you enter the phase of seeing a possible R on the horizon, it is a slippery slope. I still believe the WAS needs to do some work to get the LBS back. But if the LBS wants to R, he should not intentionally place barriers in the path. That is what I meant about readjusting some of the "rules" to fit the current stitch. The goal would be for her to see a R being possible. Since your W has not shown any evidence of having OM in the picture, there would not be the problems that other couples face when there has been an A. I personally believe the WAW in an A should work harder at getting the LBH back, than maybe the WAW who has not been involved with anyone else. Your stitch is maybe the second or third story I remember reading on the board where there was no third party involved. Very unusual around here.

Don't misunderstand what i'm saying about R. You do not have to compromise your values, boundaries, or where you stand on what you would expect in the MR, or anything like that. You certainly do not want to return to old habits. You want to continue being an attractive male, in every sense. If you want to R with her, I think you will need to show more warmth or friendliness toward her. It's sometimes difficult to evaluate from reading your post b/c I know we get very small glimpses of what goes on. I'm not saying to persue her yet. I think it needs to go slowly. She may not know what she wants, either. Maybe try to be a little more agreeable with her, and don't seek to have everything your way? Maybe don't try to cut the conversations so short now? And as things warm more, maybe try once to ask her how she is or something about her personal life. Just try once to see what kind of response you get. It is a little pursuit, but also a little test to see if she responds warmly to it........but only if you are wanting to reconcile. Then, wait to see her next move. As I said, it is a slippery slope.

It is difficult for me to really know how to advise you at this point, simply b/c you are undecided about the stitch. You say she is "gone". She has probably been depressed b/c this seperation did not bring happiness. But if she is not interested and has not given any hints of wanting to be with you......then you may need to give more consideration of letting it go and just work on having a good co-parenting relationship. If you believe you can move on and not suffer the pain you experience now, perhaps that is what you need to do. It is your decision to make and I will try to support whatever you decide. In the meantime, I will be here making suggestions to think about and try.

Just sharing a thought that has been in the back of my mind for a very long time. If things were to progress and you decided you wanted to really go all the way and R with her, I think you need to do it right the second time around. Buy a ring and purpose to the lady! Take her to a romantic place and the whole deal. But not tomorrow or next week. It is just something to think about.

[Fartiltre]

I am on vacation and it is nice, but I have a hard time keeping W out of my head and I miss talking to my children. I sleep very poorly these days – maybe due to the fact that temperature is very high, exercise is very low and I have had some beers. Not many but it is the first ones in a month or so. Friend and I actually spend 7-8 hours yesterday afternoon just talking while visiting different bars and café – I cant even recall last time I did that. I was a great day.

The friend I am here with do not have any connection to W and we have had a good long talk about me, my life, the feeling of being in between places, work life and so on. I still haven’t talked about DBing to anybody. He (and others before him) tries to put me in the direction of dating and we have had a long and good talk about this. When I told him that I miss spooning and holding hands more than I miss ML he didn’t understand how that is possible. And I can understand why …still it is the truth. When couples pass me on the street holding hands, kissing, laughing and so I am glad for them but some part of me also envy them. I want what they have and I want it with W.
It is not a desperate feeling or urge – it is something that just lies there in my head and it won’t go away. Besides the envy it is a nice feeling.

We have also talked a lot about my career and the conclusion right now is that I might need to change my career path. The more I have looked into this over the past months – the more I believe that this is also something that needs to be looked into. I am a partner in 4 small/medium businesses and one of them needs to go. Problem is that this one is providing my main income and I fear that income will drop. If I were by myself that would be no problem but I have a responsibility towards my children. It is my plan to have a talk with my two partners about this next week.

Due to Sandi’s last post to me, talks with my friend and a billion thoughts I am more sure than ever – I stand for my M! At the same time I also stand for me and my children – for the life we will share in the years to come with or without W. I want it to be fantastic!


Sandi,
Thanks for your long post. I have read it several times a day since you posted it and I have given your words a lot of thoughts. I hope this answer and the above makes sense and I hope you can read between the lines that this is not the old headspinning and skullcracking me. I feel really calm and at peace all though W and my life in general is very much in my thoughts. I am not happy happy happy as we have discussed earlier on but I am at a totally different place than half a year ago.

I still want R more than anything! I have NO doubts about that!
I still stand and I am not about to give up. I can’t and won’t do it.
You are right about me having to let go at some point but for now I still stand.

W seems gone – like she has all the way. When all of this started I interpreted every kind thing she did (wearing my jewels, hugging, taking my hand on a walk) as positives towards her being in doubts about her decision. I learned that was not the case. Then I trained myself (with a lot of help from you and others) not to mind or focus on these. I went LRT, changed my state of mind and stopped paying attention to Ws doings and sayings. She still does it all but I have learned not to see them as postives. In fact I skipped the word positives totally and called them non-negatives.
Truth is that I can see a lot of possible positives but I do not allow myself to believe in them. I have been sticking with the fact that she has not expressed any (to me) clear sign of wanting to R. I am “stuck” in the rules and simply applying patience and time.
I fear believing in possible R. I hope and pray for it, but I have left the initiative with W. My mind is set on that she need to initiate something and that needs to change. I need to look at W as I would look at any other women I would like to have in my life but I need to be careful

W seems to be happy. That is what she shows me and tells me but I also believe there is much more to it. Her picture of how this was supposed to be has been torn apart. She wanted weekly family dinners, mutual Christmas, us to be friends, us to live as neighbors so the kids could run from one to the other and so much more - and none of this has happened. She got very angry at first but I actually think she sees the reasonable in this today. So…
Yes, I believe that she knows that we can’t be friends and that I won’t bend easily
No, I don’t need to prove anything further
Yes, I believe she has leaned that things won’t be the way she wanted them to

At the same time I believe that she still wants family-time very badly….more than anything. Some part of me still sees/feels a lot of this as her “acting as if” everything is just fine. I have felt this way for a long time but again haven’t allowed myself to dwell on it due to it being mindreading. She shows me only happiness except from the episodes where Ds are hurting – and I do the same towards her. Truth is that I have other feelings than happiness and she might have as well. I can only mindread or analyse and I think you are pretty close to my observations and thoughts. I get no clues from friends or relatives and neither does she. She could be in the same state of mind as I am or the totally opposite.
It feels like there is a lot of unsaid words just below the surface of our interactions and that we both hold back. We have scratched them at one or two calls but it is like none of us wants to take the next step and really talk. This has happened before back when we lived together – she was sometimes afraid to take up an issue with me so she could sometimes go for a long time before she actually did it. (I have looked into this. I understand why she felt that way!) In some strange way it feels like the time just before BD. Something is not the way it is supposed to be between us. The major difference is that I actually believe I am on the right path. I certainly wasn’t at that time!

When W is in my thoughts I go from positive to negative. I can wake up in the morning and think R is possible and then go to be in the evening and think it is not.

I am not saying she wants to R but I do feel that she wants to talk. Some part of me believes that is the reason for her to ask for the evaluation-talk.
I brought up the talk last week and hopes we will be able to find a suitable time within the next month. I am on vacation this week and next week she is.
I will ask to her wellbeing (very careful and only once) when I get the chance.



I believe that you are right about me. “It is never the right time” unfortunately describes me very well. I have given this a lot of thoughts and it seems like I rarely dwell on the past – it seems like I live in the future. I can understand if this comes out a little odd here with me being so sad about the past but case is that I have had my focus on the future all the way. Focus on me getting better tomorrow; focus on possible R tomorrow and so on! I am getting better at living in the present but I have a long way to go!
I do feel ready for R. I will keep on working on me, but I am ready for W if she wants me! I believe I have a chance, but I don’t know how to grasp it yet!
I understand the twisting of the 37 you mention and have mentioned before – unfortunately it seems to take time for me to adjust my habits of how I interact with W. (I wish 37 there were 37 new rules to apply now – strict rules that my male lizard brain can comprehend)
We are certainly getting better along now than some months ago and I think it is time for me to increase kindness, length of talks and so on a little further and then just observe – just as you said. It is a long time since I got the last harsh words or eyerolling from her all though she seemed a little disappointed Sunday because I had plans. (Just the feeling I got)
Again I can read this both ways. It could be a tiny crack in the wall or it could simply be her settling in – IDK!

The issue about the ring you mention has been in my mind for a long time – IF I ever get the chance I will do it right On the knee, fireworks…it all ….but not tomorrow


In regards of the feeling left out or me being jealous I get your point. I arranged the meet up at the public pool because I believed it was a good way for the Ds to change place. It was – they had a great time. Still I got this feeling – I don’t want it. I felt hurt! I believe this to be totally natural but instead of running away from it as I did (in my post) I might just have to face it.

It is difficult for me to really know how to advise you at this point, simply b/c you are undecided about the stitch.

Please look at me as being decided! I am! I stand! I still want to R!


At last thank you for your kind words about me having done a good job – means a lot!

Time is 8AM here….now I will go for a run

[Fartiltre]

Vacation I Poland is over!
I am so positively surprised about this country. I have been here many times hunting but never as a tourist and I am coming back – Poland is simply fantastic.

Back home the house feels so empty but I guess that’s completely natural. From three weeks with the kids and then 6 days in Poland with a dear friend to an empty and silent house in the countryside. Some shift I will eat and relax a bit now and then I have a busy day tomorrow!

Otherwise not that much going on!
W and sit is still on my mind as the first thing in the morning and the last thing in the evening. There has been no contact since last Sunday.
I miss my children and think about them all the time.

Monday I start working again and I need some changes there. I will meet up with my partners as soon as possible and discuss my situation.

[Fartiltre]

Partners is on vacation this week so talk won’t be until next week

I have started thinking about really turning everything upside down in my life.
Change my financials so I can live with less income.
Move to a cheaper house
Lower my expectations to what I need in daily life
….and so on…all with the end goal of getting a less busy life and having more time for me and my children

I want more time for me, more time for my children and more time to enjoy life in general. That has always gone hand in hand with financials to me, but maybe I can turn this around. I want less stress and responsibility in my work as well. It will be some task and it will take a looong time due to the things that will have to be accomplished to make this happen. So far it is only a thought and it might stay that way for some time or always since I still need to secure an income and I need a very flexible job.
I have had few talks about the possibilities with a friend that might be able to help me, but I will hold my horses and think these matters through over the months to come.
(Compared to time prior to BD I work half the time now so it has already changed a lot and that feels good)


I haven’t heard anything from W for nearly two weeks. Some part of me thought/hoped (not expected and therefore no disappointment) that she would text me a short status since she got so pleased with the one I send her during my vacation time with the children….but none so far.
Otherwise nothing new – W and sit is still on my mind and I miss the children like HE77!

Tomorrow is the BIG day. I started training half a year ago after doing absolute nothing for 15-20 years and tomorrow is trial-date. The goal is 1/10 of an ironman in 1h10m….it is major to me and I look forward to the day. I want to accomplish this so bad!

I have done a lot of GAL this week. Actually so much that I turned an invite down yesterday. Visited friend and did a little training Tuesday. Friends W is best friend with W and for the first time ever she actually invited herself, Friend and their children to my place. She was nicer than ever towards me. Made me feel good!

The weekend is full of GAL as well.

[hotwheelsaust]

Wishing you the best F for the 1/10 Ironman. You can do it, you know you can. :-)