I’m still standing I feel good about me I am turning into a great farther, an awesome friend and a much better man I am getting aware of and in touch with my personal boundaries I am still learning, studying and changing I still feel the turmoil and therefore still focus on PMA GAL and training is good
I am now 15 months into this and what a journey. Some part of me feels like I have travelled around the world twice on bare feet and some part of me feels like I have only the taken the first two small babysteps. I still have absolutely no idea where I will end up but as days and month’s passes, I am getting more and more confident that good waits around the next corner. I know my path, but I don’t know where it will take me. I will travel it for as long as I feel good about it, and for as long as I believe it will take me to happiness.
My path is simple: Father Friend Home, security, financials Work Triathlon Educating me by reading and convo’s with shrink, this forum and friends Evaluating and changing me Looking up new people and new experiences and exploring my possibilities. Sleep Optimizing time
My personal life is so much richer today than prior to BD and when I try to look pass my feelings for W, BD and children I truly believe that I am a happier man now than then – still I would love to share this with W. That might just be a dream because I don’t know W anymore and she doesn’t know me – we might be able to R and we might not, so I guess I am not standing for W, but the chance that she, at some point, wants to talk R. I still feel I owe her, children and me that chance, so I still have patience. We still communicate a lot. W seemingly still wants more communication and more meetups with the children, but I hold back because of the children and me. There is no sign of OM. She is very pleasant, nice and amicable towards me and has been this way for a long time. She has gotten a little nicer lately for some reason I don’t know about.
My Ds are hurting every day because of BD. They miss. They do not understand. They are thrown back and forth between two lives and have no control. I hurt with them. It tears me up just thinking about this. I hate, hate, hate what this have done and will do to the rest of their life. I see the impact on the children so clearly and it devastates me more and more. If not for this I would be much happier and rope would properly have been dropped several months ago.
I still feel I have a long way to go and I am starting to enjoy the ride. I started at the bottom of the abyss as many before and after me and now I feel like I am finally surfacing. I can almost breathe freely without the scuba gear.
Looking back at the past 15 months makes me sad and at the same time I almost start to laugh. I have been blessed with so much well meant, sound and good advice in here, but in many of the cases I wasn’t even able to comprehend the advice and therefore I couldn’t live or do it. One thing won’t change and that’s my skull. It is thick and it is always spinning around.
I owe the greatest of gratitude to all the loving people that have helped me in here, but especially you Sandi2 will always be on my mind. I would not be where I am right now if not for you and this community.
I believe you have made progress down your path. And, you take it very seriously when working on yourself. I like it.
I am curious about what your therapists say about the conversation with W when she was angry over you putting things on hold to give it thought. Is this something you have always done, or started doing after BD? Sorry, I can't remember, if you've said.
I am not saying it is right or wrong. I see you being "cautious" and taking every decision about daughters very seriously. And, I can see your W's frustrations with this.
I did notice something a second time. Her impatience when she was speaking to you and your attention was on your child. Just to clarify, did your D interrupt while W was speaking, or did W interrupt what you and D was doing? It really rubs her the wrong way, doesn't it?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Two short meet ups with W yesterday. I took S11 and D7 to Legoland yesterday. They had a special Star Wars day. W agreed that D7 could go months ago, but I am almost certain that picking D up, doing something great and then dropping them off at Ws place afterwards will be a future no-go for me. It gives a nice experience but the possibility to share it is lost and two times changing place in one day is not good right now. I will keep this in mind for the future when possibilities come up.
Pick up was rather quick and only one little incident. W started talking about the competition yesterday. D7s school had a for-fun-competition against another school. I didn’t attend. W: “It was so much fun, but unfortunately they lost” Me: short comment I can’t remember about her statement and then: “……I look forward to D7 filling me in on all of it in the car” W: “Ooooh, then I am very sorry” (Eye rolling and upset) Me: “No need to be – all is fine” (Calm voice) Case was that I didn’t want W to tell D7s story and certainly not with D7 standing beside me. W once again felt I didn’t give her the attention she wanted and then she got mad, sad, sarcastic or whatever – me mindreading. W reached out for a hug when we arrived. I remember feeling that her hand rubbing my side up and down.
We had an awesome day at Legoland. Everything was just plain great!
When setting D7 off there, were children visiting. Same children as were at my place last weekend when W dropped off here. D7 went off and played. W offered coffee, but I didn’t feel like any. We talked shortly about the day and D7 showed driver’s license, a gold coin, a Legowatch and told W about the items. D5 was all over me again. “I love you”, “I miss you”, “Come and see this, dad”, hugs – just all of it. Then W put nail polish on D5 and friends D3 asked if I would help her do the same, so we sat there in the sun, the four of us, doing that. I never did this before BD but now I do it – still rather poorly Afterwards S11 and I left. We stayed for 20 min. or so. I stayed out of hugging this time by placing myself so I wouldn’t happen. I felt her wanting to.
Great evening with S11 but the feeling that we never got closure on a great day with D7 didn’t leave me.
Sandi, First of all – thanks for the kind words! It means a lot to me. Also know for certain that I wouldn’t feel this way if not for you! I owe you a world of gratitude! I will keep on exploring me and comments like the one you posted motivates me to strive harder - thanks
Prior to BD I didn’t put anything on hold. I took my stand immediately and it was hard to change afterwards because of stubbornness. So this is new behavior and it is sinking in. I feel good about it! I don’t make as many wrong or rash decisions and more of my decision is based on thoughts instead of feelings. I actually often change my first thought several times before coming to a final decision. I have only discussed it shortly with T but it will be one of the issues next time I see her (two weeks time). T has so far told me (based on examples) that what I do is the only reasonable thing to do. New situations and new decisions crave a little longer time than daily ones, and at the same time there are a lot of feelings involved in this. I do understand Ws frustration and the “You are putting me on hold” but IMHO that’s nothing compared to making the wrong decision or a completely feeling based decision. At some point, more of this will get under my skin and decisions will come faster, but for now I like this way.
I do not recall the exact incident, but normally when I am talking to somebody and my children interrupts I tell children to wait – that goes for W and anybody else, but it also goes the other way around. The incidents I recall over the past 3-4 months and in general (with W getting upset because my attention is not on her) I have been busy with the kids and W has been interrupting. Yes, it seems to rub her the wrong way – just as it did today when I told her that D7 would tell me in the car. And to be honest I do not see either sense or reasonability in this. What I do see is feeling based action and communication, but I do not understand the feelings or what tricks this in her.
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
Please don't discuss it with therapist just b/c I mentioned it. I was just curious. You have discussed it with therapists and it's agreed you are being reasonable.
I don't know if you will understand or agree, but I think your W is jealous of the time and one on one attention you give to the girls. Not b/c she doesn't want you being a great father, but b/c she has given up that special place in your life and it really stings when she sees your preference of who gets top priority now.
It's kind of like how some men experience jealousy toward a new baby receiving the time and attention from his W that once was all for him. Nobody wants to admit they feel jealousy toward their own child, but it is more about them feeling the loss and seeing the child getting what they no longer have.
This was my reasoning for asking who was interrupting whom. After your explanation, I think it is what she's experiencing. The irony is she knows she chose this road and yet she doesn't like some of its rough spots.
It's not difficult to read some minds. She doesn't seem able to cover her feelings well. The whole eye rolling thing and her impatience says a lot.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
W called today and was rather upbeat. She had talked to D7s school and they thought it sounded interesting to establish a grief-support-group. W has talked about this some time ago as something that might help D7. I have told W that I like the idea and think she should pursue it. School can’t and won’t finance it but they might lend some rooms to a T that can run the group. A possible T is one of Ws friend. (Still many things to solve and I am not going to hang my hat on this) The talk was good.
I have now experienced the feeling of W actually starting to do something after a talk some times during the past months. It might just be me but the last times W and I have had an argument she says some rather harsh things to me and then after a short while she turns around and get totally nice or she does something completely unexpected and that is what I suggested or something close. It seems like she disagree in the talk, then thinks and then changes her POV. She doesn’t state this but simply acts it out. Might be me mindreading but still the feeling I have.
At the same time W still seems totally gone. At some point in the convo talking about these groups she said that the children would have to come there several times. I agreed and stated something like “this affect their lifes for the rest of them so off course”. W didn’t get angry but agreed. She was more objective than normal – I (mindread) believe that a comment like this would have taken her through the roof 6 months ago, but not today.
So only one Q remains. Why did she want to share this with me? That is off course her business but I am curious in nature and I believe she also wanted to send a message about her actually doing something about Ds hurt to me and the rest of the world.
If W actually sees, acknowledges and acts on the Ds hurt now I am glad – that will help them.
Good training session in the local triathlon club this evening. Second time I went and there’s some nice people there. I feel some good vibes about this and hopefully it will extend my circle in the local area.
Sandi, I want to talk to T about it. Not in the perspective of W but in my own. I want to develop this new thing further, but I also want to be able to make faster decisions in time
As far as W goes you might be right. At the same time I do believe that she actually sees the changes and that makes her go “WTF didn’t he do that before” and then “To little to sad”. I think she is pi$$ed at me for not doing this earlier on and she has every right – heck I am pi$$ed myself!
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
Short dialogue with W Tuesday. I texted W and asked her two ask D7 about a birthday in the upcoming weekend. W returned an answer and then asked about karate today. She ended up calling and we had a short talk.
Wednesday I picked up Ds. So good to see them again. I had short talk with D7 in the evening. She – once again – stated that she wishes that W and I live together, that she misses and that she is sad. I validated as much as possible and told her it was so good she shared this. We talked shortly and agreed to talk to her teacher Thursday so D7 and teacher could also have a short chat. A little texting back and forth with W because of some mix up at Karate class.
Thursday D7 was sick (or perhaps she just wanted a day off) so no talk with teacher. I took her with me to the office and she was there for 3 hours getting spoiled. Her own desk, laptop, a Coca Cola and a nice experience. Afterwards we did some shopping and then picked up D5 early. The evening was nice. D7 seems sad every time she goes to sleep.
I texted W in the evening: Me: “Can you pack some more clothes to D5 and D7 that I can pick up tomorrow. (D5 lacks bla bla bla and D7 bla bla bla) D7 has been sick today and therefore not to school Have a nice evening. We’ll talk later F”
W:“Off course I can. Still the stomach? Say hi to both and speedy recovery to D7-mouse” (D7-mouse is a local expression – a loving nickname)
Me:“Super. Stomach is not good but better. Perhaps she cheated a little today ;-)”
W:“;-) It is also nice to have a day at home with you”
Me:“I believe she enjoyed. I took her to the office and that was big :-) Afterwards some errands and then we picked up D5 early. Lets see about the stomach tomorrow.”
Today I saw W when I picked up the clothes. Short and nice. We talked for 3 min about Ds and clothing and W told me she was visiting family with SIL – just the two of them . I initiated a hug when I left. SIL has been posting peculiar things on FB about how one should work on an R instead of leaving it. She is divorced herself and these posts got me thinking for a while. SIL (and MIL) still likes almost every post I put on FB.
Communication with W has been almost daily and still nice. I still find myself on the small rollercoaster. A sentence like” It is also nice to have a day at home with you” gives me hope and a no-answer on the last text, takes it away. This is due to me mindreading and I it is easy for me to let these feelings go – or easier than earlier on
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
Weekend has been so great. Pikefishing with a friend and children Saturday. Barbecue and football at home Sunday with two other friends and their children. It has been fantastic and that actually makes it even harder to set of the Ds today. I won’t see them for two weeks now.
I had a short talk with a dear friend, whom I haven’t seen for months, yesterday. He started out by telling how fit and good I look. Then asked how I was and then told me that this D was an example of how to do it, if it had to be done. I got a lot of sincere compliments once again. (He knows W but doesn’t see her very often) Every time this happens I get even more motivated to continue this crusade of applying changes and new ways to myself. I also realize that I am not even close to being where I want.
I also took some smoke about women and dating from these two guys. Only well-meant and mostly for fun but at the same time I mindread they are wondering why I am not active on the market. I tell them the truth “I simply don’t have the time and if I had I still don’t feel like it.”
This morning at D7s school the teacher stopped me. She had a talk with D7 last Friday as agreed. D7 expresses that she is sad, that she misses and the stuff I already know, but she also specifically asked the teacher to tell me that she would like to spend an equal amount of time at Ws and my place. That made me happy (as a dad) and sad (for D7s hurt).
Afterwards I dropped of Ds bags at W. SIL was there. I got a major hug from her and we talked shortly. Then W came into the room, hugged me and we talked a little. I told her shortly about what the teacher had told me and that the teacher had sent me a message. W seemed a little surprised since she hadn’t received it. (I totally get this feeling I believe this left her with, since I have experienced feeling left out of communication regarding the Ds several times) I told W I would forward the message when I got home and did so. The message from the teacher was short and only stated that D7 would like to spend equal time with me and W. (This was the original agreement but W changed it before she moved out and right now we are at 9/5).
3 hours later I receive an answer from W:
Hey you I am positive, but I need to think – you know that feeling ;-)
(I love that little remark about me thinking about my decisions ) I see some possible issues rising here. First of all I am interested in knowing Ws POV and second if she actually accepts D7 request my time issues will get bigger. I have arranged my own and the children’s life around the current schedule and, all though I would like nothing more than having Ds here more of the time, it will demand changes including a possible move from countryside to city.
I will leave these thoughts until W explains her stand on these matters. I have learned that many of the problems I face tends to solve them self without me doing anything at all. In fact; me doing nothing is often at better solution than me acting….and the worrying and trying to avoid problems often expands them tremendously. If W doesn’t initiate a convo I will do so I a week or two.
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
W called this afternoon and we spoke for half an hour without any harsh words – at all! No disagreement’s, no angry tone of voice - no unpleasant things in any way.
She said she wanted to have a status-talk about how the Ds are doing and how she and I are doing. I told that I would gladly meet and that her idea sounded good to me. We weren’t able to find a time in our schedules the upcoming two weeks. She wanted to meet today or as quickly as possible, but my calendar is full and I didn’t offer to reschedule. She pushed a bit for this and said that she would like to meet and talk in person because she doesn’t get as angry with me in person as over the phone. She gave up on the meeting and asked if I could talk now. I told her yes.
The talk was probably initiated by the request from D7 to her schoolteacher. W seems positive to let me have D7 more time, but has her doubts about a lot of issues. Should D5 come along, when this should be done, what if she wants to change again, why is this coming now and so on. I agreed to most and also expressed my own doubts and told W that we shouldn’t rush a decision like this. W wants to listen to Ds wishes. I told her I want the same, but also that we as parent needs to be comfortable with any decision we make.
The talk quickly evolved to a talk about what we experience with the Ds and behold: W has the exact same experiences that I have about the missing, the hurt, the days when they shift places - it all. Ds expresses the exact same things at her place as at mine. We talked about our experiences, out thoughts, what we think initiates certain behaviors, D7s outbursts, the difference between D5 and D7 doings – we covered a lot of ground.
I kept my voice calm, low and tender throughout the talk and W did the same. This is the most I have talked in a convo with her for a long time. She did interrupt me, but excused herself every time and let me finish. She actually listened to my opinions and she didn’t get defensive as she normally does. Normally when I point Ds hurt to her decision she gets very defensive, sarcastic and angry. I did exactly this more than once during this convo and not once did she get angry. Even when I told her that I don’t see this as a temporarily issue and that this is due to D she listened without expressing anger. She believes these problems will stop and that D will grow out of the hurt – I told her that I disagreed and that divorce leaves a lifelong hole in children.
It was like talking to a different person.
After half an hour one of her clients walked in and we had to end. She wanted me to call her back in the evening but I had to tell her that I might not be able to do that, since I have an appointment and might stay the night.
I am not putting anything into this other than it was a good convo and if we are able to talk like this Ds will be better off. I honestly believe I did very little different in this talk compared to several ones before this. W did the change and the outcome was totally different. It felt like she had a lot more to say but we left it there and I will let it be up to her to initiate further talk. W still seems totally gone.
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
I texted W after out talk: “Thanks for a good talk earlier. I won’t have the possibility to call you back this evening. Let’s see about tomorrow. Kiss the girls :-) Fartiltre”
W replied: “You’re welcome. It’s totally alright. We can talk later. Have a nice evening”
Since then - no communication. I will leave the initiative to continue this talk at her for now. In a week or two I will look into it – we need to settle on something for D7
Today I went to see my shrink. I wanted to talk about my communication and especially the part of my communication that seems to upset W. We went through it and she told me that I should simply keep on doing exactly what I am doing as long as it makes me feel good and as long as I am sure that I am not communication this way to upset W on purpose.
Afterwards we had a long and good talk about my changes and me being worried if this is just a shell. She almost found it amusing (in a good way) and then she started listing what she sees, why she sees it as real changes, what she has experienced with me during the past year and why she doesn’t see me falling back. She was very convincing and very objective so I took a major step away from this fear today.
Vacation started today I have 4 weeks leave now and that is the most I have ever had in row. The first 3 weeks the children will be here. At first S11, then all three of them and at the end I will have a week with the Ds. Week four is for me and a friend to travel.
Next Sunday W, children and I go on a one day trip to visit a special children’s circus. We went to this last year after BD but before her moving and will do so again. Otherwise no mutual plans for the vacation.
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
Still no communication with W since our talk last Wednesday. One week is a new record I believe. This seems normal according to the pursuer/distancer thoughts – except for the point that I didn’t pursue the talk. Still I find it normal – it seems like every time W and I have a more deep talk there will be several days without any comm at all. W is still on my mind a lot, but I am fine with it!
S11 and I are enjoying these days. We share our life’s in the best farther/son–way and we still get closer and closer every day. I love having this time and space to focus on my R with him. Yesterday we went climbing and had a great day. Today I had to go to examination at the hospital and at a chiropractor so S11 had some hour to himself. He enjoyed them since I didn’t interrupt his minecraft-gaming Tomorrow we go on our own little trip. Canoe, tent and the things we need for a luxurious three day trip down a small river.
All good here!
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
