I'm sorry this is how your life is for right now. You are a great dad and your kids are lucky to have you. I wish you luck with the separation and everything. Keep us posted.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
I appreciate your kind words. I look at this as a necessary step. Distance and further space may be a very good thing. I always try to see the positives. Of course I have much sadness, but I try not to show it.
I can tell how confused, scared and fearful my W is at this time. The last thing she needs is any pressure from me. This step just helps ensure that. It may well help in the long run.
While reflecting, I have realized that one of our issues was conflict avoidance, and we rarely made decisions that had conflict, and my wife would often give in, and resent me, and she would feel like she had no voice. Very valid to feel like that given the dynamics.
Obviously that is an unhealthy way to attack problems. And killer for a M. My W needs to have a voice.
I want to do a 180 on this now, and I am trying to figure out how to approach this, as our interaction is somewhat limited. I think resolving and negotiating any conflicts that do arise in a quick and fair manner for both of us would be ideal. I want to be strong and decisive, but not controlling. Giving her a voice I think comes down to attentive listening on my part, and not interrupting or arguing her points
I have really realized that I cannot argue with her, that you cannot argue a feeling, and my work has to be all action based. Any suggestions with respect to conflict resolution 180s would be appreciated.
She said she doesn't actually think we are good friends at all. Not sure if this is her thoughts because of the OM, or her own thoughts. But it doesn't matter because it's how she feels. I feel differently obviously, but that is put away for now. She also said she doesn't think we bring out the best in each other.
2x4 time: give your head a shake. You CANNOT believe a word she says. She's rewriting history as all WAWs do. She's saying things to justify her actions and emotions. Don't believe a word of it. As for listening better, try reflective conversation techniques. http://www.loveatfirstfight.com/instant-connection/ It's a better way to communicate so that you give her a voice and validate her side of the equation.
M: 59 W: 53 M: 9 yrs T: 14 yrs No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine) W moved out 11/18/2013 D-Day 12/14/2013 W moved back home 12/1/2014
PeterV2 is spot on. Do not believe the crap coming out of her mouth. My W was all over the map when we were separated. I would have given up the fight if not for people on this board telling me those very same words.
separated since 9/01/13 M-31 W-36 D-4 Move back home 12/26/13 3 months of tough times Finally in a happy M
Thanks for the 2x4, as well as the link. I like it, and I will start to implement it. So critical. And the reminder to not believe what she is saying as well is great. Of course I'm referring to her emotional justifications right now. I realize what she is saying right now she does believe at this moment of course.
Indigo,
Thanks for chiming in. So nice to hear from someone that has been through it. Your right, you need to stay the battle, and be consistent. And not believe what she is saying at this time.
Okay, I just received this email from my W. I am not sure really how to respond, and I'd love Sandi or MrBond or anybody's interpretation, if I should interpret anythjng other than my W is getting an understanding for what has caused some of our issues
Here's the email:
I know this may seem strange for me to write you like this at this time.
I feel like the last several months in particular have been a blur although in many ways so have the last several years.
You are an incredible person. You are passionate, loyal, trustworthy, committed, kind, and generous. You are an amazing father. And when I say the kids are lucky to have you as their dad, I mean it with my whole heart. I regret not being able to let you share more in their early months & years. That was a mothering philosophy of mine but also a deep unmet need of mine: I had felt so much excruciating pain not being able to count on my parents in my most vulnerable moments that I could not bear to let my own babies feel despair.
Whenever I find myself referring to you, it is with pride I have called you my husband. It took months to get used to calling you "my husband" so I imagine it will take months to not refer to you as such. I will always treasure having shared my most intimate moments with you.
I often wonder "what I am doing" and "why" am I doing it? As I'm sure you among others do as well.
It makes little sense on the outskirts. And it's not fair to you. I see that. And I am deeply sorry.
I am sorry for the unending bitterness in our relationship. The resentment that built over years. I feel like I lost myself in motherhood and wifehood. But I never had much of a "self" prior to marriage. I think I had been on a journey to finding myself around that time but any progress that I'd made was eaten up a little more after each pregnancy to the point of nearly being unrecoverable.
I think we have both really gotten to know ourselves and each other a little more throughout the last few months particularly in our sessions with IC
Now that we are both almost at a place of understanding how we got here, it does seem tragic to not "make it work." I say almost because I believe we are still learning about ourselves and each other during each session. And I believe there is merit in that as individuals and as co-parents and hopefully as friends.
I am terrified of losing you. But I feel that we are trapped in a cycle of our most wicked traits always hovering. And I am mostly referring to the feelings and behaviours of mine that I battle. Although I have wondered lately if the perfection you've felt you had to live up to with your family has been projected onto me. A me that does not have the foundation or skills to cope with such high expectations. Tragically, the feelings I battle most appear before I see you, when I'm with you, or after I've left your company. They are suffocation, anxiety, depression, despair and they lead me spiralling towards only one option. I can't say it's just the kids, or the house, or you, or life, and how we've structured it. But as scared as I am of losing you, I am more terrified of the suicidal thoughts I have. They are at times relentless.
I am not telling you that for any reason other than it is real and it is powerful and it is unbearable to live with such harmful and intrusive thoughts. And I'm sorry they've become associated with you. I know I've had them before in my life and before I knew you so even though this association is powerful now it is something I feel inside of me that I will be battling for my entire life. It is an illness. A silent illness. And probably why I so often wish for another disease. A disease that evokes compassion and sympathy. A disease where people would want to help care for you and your family. Without judgment. Where people would forgive you for not feeling up to attending an event or where they would make you a meal and take your kids out to ease the load. But mental illness does not afford that patience. And it is draining for people to try to understand it. So I will say that my anxiety, depression, irritability, and feelings of being overwhelmed are symptoms I've lived with for decades but they are now also symptoms of my marriage and my kids and my lifestyle and these symptoms need to be managed like any other illness. I will never be able to live up to your family's expectations. It has also led to my feeling of depletion and inadequacy. I know this is also not fair to you. I realize that they may seem like giving up but I see it as exercising control over one small part of my life that I have control over.
I am sorry that I can't commit to "making it work". I don't like the thought of you being with other women any more than you do. Especially ones who aren't damaged goods like me. But that also builds resentment and the mantra "it's not fair" I know you want to be with me despite my war wounds but I loathe my body. I am no longer proud of what it accomplished. And that is not fair to you either. Some part of me will hold onto the anger that my body was destroyed in the making and birthing and nursing of three big children. Your body underwent transformations only for the better. And that is not fair.
I've also come to another epiphany in the last little while. And that is since I loathe myself so much in your presence I loathe you for having loved that person. Even if it's not those qualities that you love. Obviously! But you accepting those parts of me hasn't made me overcome them, rather they surface more frequently. This might be a topic for our next session with FT
Anyhow, I am sorry for how this happened and how I've handled so much of it. You deserve so much better. And you will find it. I have no doubt. And maybe one day that person will even come to see that despite the unforgivable nature of what I've done, she is lucky to be with the person & partner it helped you become.
Don't know if it provides insight into her frame of mind, if it is meant to elicit some sort of reaction from you, (probably yes, or she wouldn't have bothered to write it), is she trying to play the victim, thereby letting herself off the hook? She is saying so many wonderful things about you... Then why is she a WAW?
"I resent you for loving me because I don't love myself enough..." Sounds like a 70's movie theme.
It's beyond me.
But I can say that a woman's got to have a lot going on to leave a man who she describes as darn near perfect.
I'd take it with a BLOCK of salt, of course.
But I'm curious to know what YOU make of this?
Do you sense she's sincere or just playing?
I guess what she does from here out will tell the tale.
I'm curious to see what others say.
----GG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
I think it's sincere, she's not playing. The thoughts she's had of anxiety, despair and suffocation are real feelings. I've mentioned her suicidal thoughts in my stitch before. They are all very real.
My challenge is what I do, that contributes to that, and trying to change that, if it is possible.
I think she wants to be friends, and I know she is scared of losing me, but she's more scared of losing herself. I've told her we will not be friends if there is an OM involved in this D and there is no commitment to work or try to repair out M.
Bottom line, she doesn't feel good about herself around her family and me. I need to try and adjust my behavior to limit that, but at the same time, she needs a lot of space to figure out herself.
I'm a tad overwhelmed by the letter right now. I need more time to digest.
I'm more concerned from the suicidal aspect than from the WAW side.
Sounds like she's letting you completely off the hook, and saying she's not worthy of anyone or anything. And she hates you for loving someone so unworthy of you.
Isn't that part of the suicidal drama? Are you convinced she isn't in danger? Hate to analyze this as WAW-speak without taking the self destructive side into account first.
