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I have been in total denial this whole time that my W left for another man. She told me once in the beginning and I believed her and here 6 months later I catch a glimpse of this email below. I don't know how to process. Funny thing is, my brother accused her of this 6 month ago with this guy and I chose to believe her over him. Feeling pretty stupid now.

"Hey, since you are avoiding and ignoring me anyway, I'm just gonna lay it all out there. I've tried everything I know to do to make things better with us, and I'm just at a loss. I've been going through our conversations that we've had through this relationship and I remember why I fell so hard for you, I just don't understand how things changed so much. You went from talking to me, caring for me, being sweet, and us just talking about anything; to barley even asking how my day is going. What did I do? I know you have [censored] going on, but to be honest, there's not anymore [censored] going on now that there was 6 months ago. Did you find somebody else? Did I just not measure up to your expectations and you don't want to let me go because you don't want to be lonely and want the opportunity to have sex when you want? These are the kind of questions that have been racing through my mind and I can't get you to confirm or deny any if this because you refuse to talk to me. If you don't want me anymore, be a man, and tell me; and if you do then show me. You clearly are not concerned with my feelings, so what do you have to lose besides a booty call? I've told you before, I don't expect to see you everyday or even every week and I'm not looking for a commitment or any labels of what we are or aren't, but I am looking for some attention. The kind you used to give me when you said you've always wanted me and you miss me when we don't see each other for a while, and that you think I'm an amazing person who deserves to be happy; the kind where you just talk to me about anything and everything going on with you. I want to remind you, as you are probably feeling pressured by me right now, that you were the one pushing this in the beginning. And then all of a sudden, something happened and you went running the other direction. I don't know what it was, but it was literally an overnight change. I don't mind waiting if things really will even out when all our crap is done and settled. The way you used to make me feel and the fun we used to have and what we shared is definitely worth the wait, but if something on your end has really changed I deserve to know and we both deserve to move on. I don't want this to end, but I don't want to feel like this anymore either. Just talk to me. Be honest with me like you promised me you would. If you do or ever really did love me, I should be worth that."


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Shoe is on the other foot now. She's getting a taste of her own medicine.

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And then all of a sudden, something happened and you went running the other direction. I don't know what it was, but it was literally an overnight change.

See, it does happen just like that. That should give us hope.

Don't beat yourself up. This is her doing, not yours. I know it's hard to take, but not really that surprising.

I'd look at it optimistically. She left for another man, and now he's gone, at least for now. If he stays away, then in a while she may start thinking totally differently about what she's left behind.

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Thanks for the pep talk Zew. I think finding this info has finally given me what I needed to detach well and stop any pursuing. I don't feel like I can pursue her knowing this secret kept hidden. I honestly am still having a hard time believing it. But there is the proof in black and white. They do say the average affair dies after about 6 months right?

What do I do from here though? I'm afraid I'll come off as being cold, not wanting to let on that I know but not being able to talk to her like everything is normal. Also, I've kept off seeing a lawyer until now hoping that I wouldn't start a conflict. But now I'm thinking I should take what I have, prep with a lawyer to protect myself, and get them to look into this A. Suggestions?


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Originally Posted By: Bunches
Also, I've kept off seeing a lawyer until now hoping that I wouldn't start a conflict. But now I'm thinking I should take what I have, prep with a lawyer to protect myself, and get them to look into this A. Suggestions?


Yes -- see a good family law attorney ASAP. This ^^^ was foolish.

Your wife left the marriage -- openly talking divorce -- last October, and has been acting secretively since February. It's long past the time you got a legal consultation to protect yourself, and find out what your rights and responsibilities are here, Bunches.


Starsky


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Okay, L found and appointment set for consultation on Thursday. Taking a half day out of work to get it done. Obviously just having found out today about PA, its been on my mind. Does anyone think it is wrong to file first if you feel like it will protect your rights to kids? Now that I thouroughly don't trust her, I don't know that I'm comfortable with her filing this summer after she has had S for a couple months. I also don't trust that she isn't trying to position things to get a good deal in her favor with CS and alimony. I really thought I knew her.


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I filed today and I did it only to protect myself and the kids $$ and get visitation schedule court ordered so there isn't any issues if we don't agree.

I am in the same situation where I thought I knew him then bam wtf?!

Listen to the advice here, it's hard but try.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
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He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Feeling really low today. Trying to focus at work and its hard. Now that I know about the PA I'm back to not eating or sleeping. Any time I slow down or close my eyes I think about OM and W again and it makes me sick. I keep having emotional swings between doing something vengeful or trying to understand her side of things. I don't know how I'm 'supposed' to react to this or how to understand it. I think I'm capable of forgiving it but not when she isn't even sorry. Hell, she hasn't even told me about OM and in the beginning when my brother told me this was happening I believed her when she said they were only friends. I even defended her to others saying it would never happen.


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So what is your PLAN, Bunches?

Look, this [censored] -- I get it. Hell, I LIVED it (and successfully rebuilt my marriage, too). Life has dealt you a great, big CHIT SANDWICH, and you've gotta deal with it.

Being stuck in denial is what GOT you here in the first place. It's time to kick yourself in the azz and come up with a gameplan for the rest of your life.

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Starsky, my gameplan so far consists of the following:
1. Unloading my house and moving to a new home (June)
2. Taking some classes during the summer to GAL (Motorcycle / Cooking / Music) hoping to start some new exciting things in my life.
3. Son moves back in with me full time come August when school starts up and I've worked out a tentative schedule that will give me a great deal more space from W and be independant.
4. Come next March I should be finishing up with current job. Planning to save money between now and then to start something smaller requirements during that time and go back to school.

This is my life plan at the moment. Understanding that I don't expect W to be a part of any of it. Trying to be friendly but detach and be 'as if'.

Is this what you mean?


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Yes, it is, and those all sound excellent! I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had all of those plans in place as I haven't really followed your sitch.

Please do follow thru on the L thing and find out what your rights are, Bunches -- the information you get will also be very empowering, and make you feel better since "fear of the unknown" is always the worst. Make sure you ask your atty what are the "do's" and "don't's" you should be mindful of right now.

Peace,

Starsky


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I'm glad you are challenging me. Honestly, its great to have feedback. I feel like most days I log on here and journal on my newcomers threads and get nothing. It feels good to get feedback, so thank you.

I've scheduled meeting with atty this Thursday at 3 pm. Got scheduled out of work to make it happen. I'm honestly looking forward to it. Looking forward to moving too. The house we had for 7 years had a lot of problems and is just filled with memories that don't help every day. I'm thinking of spending some money when I first move in to replace some of the furniture too. I hate sleeping in our bed, something new would help. Its nice to have something to look forward to.


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I do understand. I'll try to stop by your thread more often, if that's OK, and catch up on your backstory.


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Thanks Starsky! I'm majorly thick in the head and only seem to learn by doing the same stupid thing multiple times or being told I'm doing it wrong repeatedly. It feels great to feel like someone has an interest. You will probably see a lot of classic mistakes and poor focus in my older threads.


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That's okay, cuz I specialize in 2x4's. Or maybe 2x6's. smirk


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Starsky, I was just reading some of your history and had a question. You managed to make a big difference with confrontation. You don't think it would have had the same effect though if your W had already left and was pushing D do you? Of course, my W has decided she doesn't want to save the M and has already agreed to have my S live with me as long as she gets to see him often. I don't think confrontation could work for me.


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My wife said she was DONE with our marriage, and was openly threatening divorce when I filed. She in fact retained an attorney before I did (although I filed first).

I would describe my approach as a hybrid of what you're calling "confrontation" (and what I would characterize as a tough legal/financial/affair-busting stand) and the softer package of working on my issues (180s, "becoming the man only a fool would leave," self-improvements, etc.).

I do think it made a big difference that I did all of this almost IMMEDIATELY, however, once I discovered her affair.


Starsky


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I feel than I often need 2x4, and should stf more. Although one of his complaints was I never talked when he thought I should and the rest of the time I let no one else speak.

I realise now it was more than likely down to ow, being in the picture.


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I defintely think OM has been in the way but I think its still a symptom, not the problem. Of course, she can't look at it or won't look at it with OM around so until she gives that up and goes through the withdrawal from it I don't see the fog lifting and her noticing what she is giving up.


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Question:
I see all the time on this site that confrontation doesn't help or it depends on the circumstances. My W has been marching for D since day 1. She moved into another relationship and might not even feel bad about doing it while still M because in her mind its Done! With this, can confronting her that I know even help me?

Regardless of whether she did or didn't quit the affair, it might make her feel like she can't be around me or she might just get pissed that I snooped enough to find out. Honestly though, since she hasn't backed down at all from D this whole time and now that I know about A I'm thinking I should file first. She can always change her mind but if she doesn't I don't know that making it all easy on her is healthy for me. She has been working on her own paperwork and pushing to get D started, but with the terms she is going to want she looses nothing but responsibility.


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Bunches,

I'm kind of baffled by your question. I guess I don't understand why you WOULDN'T let her know that you are aware of her affair. Did you read your wife's note to the OM carefully? She even tells him to "be a man" at one point. Do you think she'd say that a "man" would sit back and say nothing if he knew of his wife's affair?

You seem to think that "confrontation" means something more than being direct and honest. I believe in honesty. She should know that you know of the A, and that you won't tolerate it. Period. There is no "confrontation". It's just two people having a frank discussion about their relationship and their personal boundaries.

If your wife's affair has fizzled out, and she drags herself back to your home, reluctantly, what would you then discuss with her about her affair? How do you think she will react if you casually mention that you knew about it and sat back, passionlessly, and said nothing? My wife thanked me for fighting for her. Would yours?

It sounds to me like your wife is getting the brush off from the OM. Perfect time for you to let her know you won't tolerate an open marriage. She's running out of options. Be that strong "man" that she needs.

HS

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Originally Posted By: HopefulStill
Bunches,

I'm kind of baffled by your question. I guess I don't understand why you WOULDN'T let her know that you are aware of her affair. Did you read your wife's note to the OM carefully? She even tells him to "be a man" at one point. Do you think she'd say that a "man" would sit back and say nothing if he knew of his wife's affair?

You seem to think that "confrontation" means something more than being direct and honest. I believe in honesty. She should know that you know of the A, and that you won't tolerate it. Period. There is no "confrontation". It's just two people having a frank discussion about their relationship and their personal boundaries.

If your wife's affair has fizzled out, and she drags herself back to your home, reluctantly, what would you then discuss with her about her affair? How do you think she will react if you casually mention that you knew about it and sat back, passionlessly, and said nothing? My wife thanked me for fighting for her. Would yours?

It sounds to me like your wife is getting the brush off from the OM. Perfect time for you to let her know you won't tolerate an open marriage. She's running out of options. Be that strong "man" that she needs.

HS



x 2.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Originally Posted By: HopefulStill
My wife thanked me for fighting for her.



As did mine. Said she LOATHED me at the time for it, but even THEN, she respected it (and admitted it was attractive) . . . and then later as she came out of the withdrawal she really thanked me.


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Your right HS. Its time I stopped letting my emotions crumple me into a crying kid in a corner and just be an adult about it. I've let this devestate me for too long and tried to treat her with loving kid gloves too often. Just ask for a truthful answer and ask, right. No need to get into how I know or how it makes me feel.

Okay, honestly though I have to ask then. What is it the other experts on the site are meaning then when they say confronting your S about their A doesn't help? I mean I obviously must have been reading that wrong or is it just a difference of how others approach it?


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Thank you Starsky. I've wanted to say something since I found out. At first I figured I needed to cool down cause I was pretty out of sorts about it and cold for a couple days I think. Been less than a week since I knew but I will feel easier without the secret anyways and able to proceed.

Saw a lawyer today and they cautioned me against my agreement to let W have S for the summer. She could take him and file afterwards muddying the water for who gets him. She had told me she would leave him living with me but I'm concerned she will change her mind. They suggest I file now to protect my S living with me. I don't trust my W, its true. Her life keeps changing and her decision are terrible at this time. Thoughts?


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Maybe they mean that you cannot control your spouses actions? Not sure. I do read a lot of wishy-washy advise on here. Advice that advocates sitting back and waiting for the world to change in your favor while you "improve yourself". I don't subscribe to that at all. I think you've got to take charge of your destiny- and that includes your M.

Both Starsky and I and others on here SAVED our marriages by being direct with our spouses and setting boundaries. You can't control your W, but you can control what YOU will accept in YOUR life. The funny thing is- standing up for what's right also makes you more attractive to your W....

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Originally Posted By: Bunches


Saw a lawyer today and they cautioned me against my agreement to let W have S for the summer. She could take him and file afterwards muddying the water for who gets him. She had told me she would leave him living with me but I'm concerned she will change her mind. They suggest I file now to protect my S living with me. I don't trust my W, its true. Her life keeps changing and her decision are terrible at this time. Thoughts?



I think if you trust yourself that you picked a good lawyer (I assume this is a good family law atty, preferably one who specializes in "men's right" and paternal custody issues?) then I would listen to your attorney.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Originally Posted By: Bunches


Okay, honestly though I have to ask then. What is it the other experts on the site are meaning then when they say confronting your S about their A doesn't help? I mean I obviously must have been reading that wrong or is it just a difference of how others approach it?


Not trying to be snarky or anything, but right off the top, I'd ask those advocating such advice if they were successful in saving their marriages. I think that's a fair and important question.

Secondly, I think even I would say that "confrontation" (and I wouldn't even really characterize what I did as "confrontation") in and of itself doesn't do a damned thing, other than:

a) clearly communicate your core boundaries to your wayward spouse ("I will not live in an open marriage");

b) re-builds some attraction, esp. when articulated by a man but I've seen it work for both sexes, just due to the decisiveness of it;

c) Outs the deceit and secrecy of the affair, and kills some of its mystique and attraction.

But it didn't do ANYTHING to help my wife and I rebuild our marriage -- that hard work came later.

Somehow, "don't expose the affair!" has gotten morphed into some sort of silly game, whereby the betrayed spouse knows about the affair, the wayward spouse KNOWS that they probably know, but neither one of them say anything and she continues her infidelity and he wallows in despair, his wife slowly losing whatever attraction she still had for him. Or -- worse -- openly LYING to people who ask point-blank, to cover up and enable their wayward spouse's affair.

Read my story (as "Puppy Dog Tails") -- it's far from a story of "confrontation," and neither is HS's.


Starsky


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If you're just talking about confronting your S with the A, there's nothing wrong with that. It depends how far you're going to take it. Some people have gone off and exposed to not just family, but to friends and employers as well. If you're doing it for the sole purpose of shaming your spouse and getting revenge, the chances of you saving the M isn't very high.

It's not "wishy washy" advice as specified above. You do, in fact, have to "improve yourself", or else why would they even want to go back to you if the problems still exist?

Bottom line is that it is up to you. Everyone has a right to proceed as they see fit. It doesn't mean that those who don't expose are "weaker" than the ones who do. It's a personal choice.


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I'll let HS respond for himself, but I don't think he's recommending anything other than working BOTH sides of the "strong stance" and "improve yourself" fence. I'm certainly not -- you have to do BOTH.

I just don't care for what I used to call the "Little Bo-Peep" approach: you know, "leave them alone, and they'll come home, wagging their tails behind them." Um, no they probably won't.


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"I just don't care for what I used to call the "Little Bo-Peep" approach: you know, "leave them alone, and they'll come home, wagging their tails behind them." Um, no they probably won't."

Well I've seen that happen here and in real life just as I've seen the exposure work and not work. Every situation and the individuals involved are different and what works for one may not work for another.

Just my 2 cents.


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Well, I hope fortune favors the bold then. Of course 10 minutes later she was coming by the house to get S swim stuff and I just manned up and asked. She started to side step but quickly realized I wasn't asking an exploratory question....and then she got mad. Before even wanting to answer she wanted to know who told me. Which I wouldn't answer. I turned it back to respecting me enough to give me the truth. I wasn't angry or even mean at any point. I actually managed to stay calm and just said I deserved to know the truth. I don't know that I got it though. She said she had been seeing someone and it never should have happened because we are still married and she knows how wrong it was. But she also denied that anything physical happened.

I don't know whether to believe that or not though, as my first post showing her letter to this guy sounds like something did happen. She adamantly denied sex but admitted she had been seeing him and that it was over. Honestly I don't feel good about how she tore out of here pissed afterwards but I do feel good that its out in the open. I think you are right though, with my S at stake here and so many bad decisions in play I have to file paperwork and protect my rights to him. I don't have any intention of cutting her off from him but I've gotta proceed. Am I wrong?


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You have to do what you have to do to protect you and your son. Forget about what others tell you. You're just protecting your assets so that you don't get screwed. This has nothing to do with your M.


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Bunches,
Good for you smile. It's out in the open now. I think you'll find yourself in a much better position as time goes on. I wouldn't worry about the fact that she was upset when you let her know that you were aware of her A- it seems all waywards get upset.

Hi Mr. Bond,
I think what you're referring to is what I call "exposing" of the A. I do agree with you and others that I don't think that's the best approach (the exception being letting the other spouse know). I was simply referring to those that advocate not having an honest conversation with your spouse about their A and where your boundaries are. I also feel that one should work on improving oneself (marital strife or not), I was just making the point that it should be PART of a total strategy, not the strategy itself.

Stay strong,
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Well after I left here yesterday, I went to pickup a friend from the airport and drop off before picking up S again from W. W calls me on the road and starts to apologize for the way she handled the situation and how badly she reacted to the topic. But I get the idea it wasn't much of a real apology. She quickly turned the topic back to how I found out and 'when' I found out. I think she just wants to know because now she doesn't trust people. I wanted to keep it friendly so I just dodged the question for a few minutes but when she kept at it I just let her know that I didn't owe her an answer. Then I calmly said that while we were managing to be friendly over the topic, that I wasn't happy with her and had a lot to say that I would just keep to myself unless she kept pushing me. She got really quite. Started a few sentences but just stopped a few words in each time. Went through a few awkward minutes of silence so I just asked if she was still available for me to pickup S at 8:30, she agreed, and I said I'd see them then.

Pickup was quick and without incident. I didn't say to her someone told me about the A, but I may have infered it by using the word "heard". She seems to be really tripping over the whole thing too.


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Originally Posted By: Bunches
But I get the idea it wasn't much of a real apology. She quickly turned the topic back to how I found out and 'when' I found out. I think she just wants to know because now she doesn't trust people. I wanted to keep it friendly so I just dodged the question for a few minutes but when she kept at it I just let her know that I didn't owe her an answer.



Excellent!!! whistle whistle


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Thanks Starsky! It feels good to be in control of choices and not feel like I'm waiting for something to happen. Not sure how interactions with W are going to go from here on. I'm keeping my L business under my hat until things are prepared at this point. No need to stir that up in the meantime. From the sounds of things she doesn't want to meet at the house any more to trade off S, which honestly I'm okay with. I didn't like the feeling of that interaction each day anyways. Looking forward to a great weekend for now. Wish I could kind of fast forward time a little to my move in June, but I'll just take things one at a time until then.


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Well I hope some of you are online tonight for advice. I don't know whats going on yet and I'm trying to stay calm. Got a text from my W while at work just now. She says "Text me when you're on your way home please. I took this afternoon off and am taking S out for a bit." I waited a few minutes and responded "Okay, everything alright?" and she kicks back "Not really, but it will be."

I have no idea what she has in mind but given the interaction over the last couple days I'm guessing she has something to say. Any advice?


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Just try to relax and when you see her, LISTEN. No expectations, no projecting. I know that's hard, but you really have no way of knowing what's up.

PROMISE NOTHING, EXPECT NOTHING is my motto in these situations. Remember, "Hmmmm, I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'll have to think about that" phrase is your friend!

Starsky


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Okay, so I took that wrong all together I guess. She didn't want to talk. She told work she couldn't function today and took off the second half of the day to think but didn't intend to talk to me about any of it. She talked a little about summer scheduling but that was it and then took off again. Not sure how I feel about that. Guess I had expectations that it was some kind of direction.

I'm starting to feel guilty about filing. I don't want to push this along faster, but not sure what else to do.


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I keep running through everything in my mind again today. I've made the decision and things are in the works but I keep questioning it trying to be sure. The W I've known all these years just doesn't seem like the person I'm defending my rights from now and every time I picture her I feel like a monster for taking action against her. But then I think about the choices she has made and feel like I don't know her at all now. Its so gut wrenching to think about how things could go when this all gets started but I feel like it was coming sooner or later. I'm just taking it into my hands now and acting first. My L said based on the situation, if I wait even a few weeks, everything will change and she would have a much stronger case to take him from me because she would have him all summer. I hate this...


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That's what a lawyers job is, to protect your rights. They want to make sure you are protected and get whats best for you. The lawyer is most likely not concerned with you saving your marriage, that is not their job. I guess you have to decide for yourself how quickly to proceed. Your son will always be a part of your life even if your W is not.

This crap is not fun, especially if you still love and want to be with your W. You are probably worried about pissing her off and ruining any chance of getting her back by going forward with the lawyer. I suppose you need to make the call on how to proceed.

Good for you on letting W know that you know about the A. It kind of clears the air a little bit when you no longer have to live a lie around her.


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Thanks Indigo, you have a point there. L isn't concerned with my M. I've got a lot of paperwork to sort in the next few days while I think about what is best. On another note, W's roller coaster of crazy continues. She drops off S today saying it's too much and she is getting out of MIL place no matter what. W is still pretty broke and is giving up a large apartment only costing her $100 a month just because MIL doesn't like her life choices and has started to tell her about it every day. This is the 4th time in six weeks that her whole plan forward is changing. Now she also wants to change jobs which has also been going back and forth regularly. I agree she needs a better job and more stable income but she has no idea what she does want.

Spent most of the weekend out having fun. S and I got him a lot of new summer clothes on Saturday and pool stuff. He was with W last night and today. I went with a friend to have fun for that time and just got back. Good times! Made plans for most of next weekend too.


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I noticed you disappeared from Newcomers but I didn't know you wound up here. Sorry to hear about the turn of events. Stay strong and true to yourself and your son. Good luck!


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Thanks Barry, glad to hear from you. Its funny that I'd think I would feel worse all the time with the turn of events but I feel more in control knowing where I stand now I guess. Strange how this works sometimes. Still hoping, still praying...


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W was at the house last night dropping of S and started telling me about blowout with MIL. They have only lived together for 6 months now and its gone from the last 2 years of MIL being the most important opinion in W's life, to now they can't barely stand each other. Don't really know what to make of it but its one more person she is scrubbing from her daily life. Also, she is flipping her plan upside down again. Now she is trying to save money to get out of MIL's as soon as possible and planning to switch jobs again. These two decisions have changed several times in the last 2 months. She can't seem to make up her mind. With all that is going on in her life she is always in a bad mood it seems and I believe its starting to affect S. Wasn't a comfortable subject to broach but I told her with everything going on and the amount of stressors on her, even when S around, she might want to see counseling. She did not like the idea but reluctantly agreed.

I still feel like I don't get enough space from W day to day. She is usually on there 10 - 30 minuts a day when I get home but its the consistant seeing that feels like we don't get away from each other. Things will be easier I think in a couple weeks when school gets out and there is no reason for her to come and go daily.


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She seems unstable. I hope you will factor that in to your decision-making regarding D and custody. Arrangements could always be modified later, if/when she gets her act together.


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I AM AN IDIOT!!!

W messages me at work an hour ago just saying "I'm so sorry". Out of the blue. I can't leave well enough alone so I call to see what is going on assuming she must be apologizing for something I don't know about. She starts into all that has been talked about since PA confirmed in the last two weeks and how she felt she owed me a sincere apology. Then, I get dragged into her talking about how she doesn't want to try but wishing she did because everything would be soo much better and that she believes I can change and be better. She spends 10 minutes sniffling on the other end of the phone and I can't help but feel 'bad for her'. Why am I so stupid??


Starsky, to your point I decided yesterday that I wasn't comfortable dropping the legal papers on her without having talked about it so I talked to her. Of course it was a risk but one I decided I needed to take to feel right about it. She agreed her life was unstable and agreed to sole physical custody being with me. She also said that I was too good to her for not taking her for everything, that she would deserve it.


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Dang dude it's like looking into a future glass. I hope things turn around. I hate the whole "I know we could make it work, but I don't feel like it." Feels like such a cop out.


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Feeling really angry today. I think I've been trying to avoid seeing any counseling because I don't want to and thinking maybe I could get along by just posting here and talking to supportive family members. But I don't think I'm okay anymore. After W opened up some on the phone yesterday I'm finding myself really angry. I'm pissed at her for the terrible ILYBNILWY and the "I know it would be for everyones best but I just don't want to". I feel trapped between being nice and just waiting things out or filing D papers myself to get boundaries in place for myself and S. I'm hurt that she still lied to me about PA this whole time and still not admit having slept with OM. I have been trying to settle myself down since this last night and I'm just getting more wound up and having a hard time not thinking about it all again today.


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I'm sorry you are struggling Bunches. It never hurts to talk to someone. It can help you sort thru your feelings and help you work through the situation. A little help is a good thing!



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I know what that anger feels like, and it's totally understandable why you feel it. Your entire life is being uprooted around you, and the one person in the world that you would expect to be by your side THROUGH it is the very one CAUSING it.

Why doesn't your wife want to work on your M? Because she's in love with the OM and not you. That's it in a nutshell. She's going to have to either make an intellectual choice outside of emotion and decide to return and work on the M (which she's not planning on doing right now), or she's going to have to get through the withdrawel from the "breakup" with the OM. If the OM strings her along (like it sounds like he's doing) then that could last indefinitely....

Right now, your doing the right things. Your wife is going to behave like an addict right now. Addicts lie, cheat and steal to keep their habit going. That's why she seems like such a different person to you. Understanding that may help you cope.

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Originally Posted By: HopefulStill
I know what that anger feels like, and it's totally understandable why you feel it. Your entire life is being uprooted around you, and the one person in the world that you would expect to be by your side THROUGH it is the very one CAUSING it.

Why doesn't your wife want to work on your M? Because she's in love with the OM and not you. That's it in a nutshell. She's going to have to either make an intellectual choice outside of emotion and decide to return and work on the M (which she's not planning on doing right now), or she's going to have to get through the withdrawel from the "breakup" with the OM. If the OM strings her along (like it sounds like he's doing) then that could last indefinitely....

Right now, your doing the right things. Your wife is going to behave like an addict right now. Addicts lie, cheat and steal to keep their habit going. That's why she seems like such a different person to you. Understanding that may help you cope.

-HS



What he said. ^^^


Starsky


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All the above is spot on. I was living your hell just over two months ago. The OM is like a drug to your W. I was lucky enough to show positive changes and give my W a reason to let me move back home. A lot of it had to do with my D that gave me the chance. For the first two months back my W was in constant contact with OM through text messages. W did not know I guessed the password to our cell phone account. It was all day every day and I drove myself crazy. It became my obsession. She would lie right to my face saying there was NC and that it was over. She even printed out and manipulated the text exchanges to make it look like it was my number she was texting like I'm stupid and didn't know.

This caused me to mope around and act more like the old me. I mean how cant you be down when you know you are living in a lie? W admitted that my behavior was just pushing her farther away. Thanks to the members on this board I was advised to stand up and put my foot down. I told her I knew for a fact it was going on and I was leaving for good if it continued. I did get weak and let it slip one time.

Then came the phase of her going through basically a state of depression of losing OM. All became well after awhile until OM started threatening her thru work email. Changed cell phone numbers and blocked email and even had to say we would go to the police.

All is finally great now. W let me back into her heart and we truly are in love again. Anything can happen! I was so close to walking away so many times trust me.

Only your W can make the choice to stop what she is doing and give you two a chance. Its been said over and over again, but be the man only a fool would leave. Obsessing over the OM will only drive you crazy and make you act in ways that are counterproductive in what you are trying to accomplish. I wouldn't wish this crap on anyone, but you can rise above it no matter how things turn out in the end.


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Thanks guys! I know its natural to feel so upset and get so twisted up I just don't have the best way to channel this stuff. Especially when it hits me in the morning or at work. This whole business with the L has really kicked up my stress levels trying to decide what is best for me and S. The money is not as big of a deal but I've had this conviction this whole time that I would not be the one to file D. But I'm tired of sitting in Limbo just so I can say she will have to be the one to push this rock up the hill. I don't know now if A is still going on or if it fizzled. I have no way of knowing. She says its over but how can I believe that. She also tried to tell me nothing happened and I don't believe that. If you read the letter in my first post, I can't see that being the case.

I've slowed down my GAL activities recently. I need to get back to figuring that out somehow. I'm fine on the weekends but the weekdays don't often work out into anything unless I just take S out. I think I just need to pass the next two weeks like this and then things will change. We have a different schedule for the summer. W will have S more and I won't have to see her every day from school drop off.


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So on my way home from work today, picking up some food for S, and my W messages me to find out when I will be home to get him so she can take off. She goes ahead and just includes that she doesn't have plans but is super hungry. I go ahead and pick her up something too since I was already stopping and come home. She and S eat while she talks about her blow out with MIL recently, how her friends are doing, and what her brother is up to these days. I just tried to listen and validate her concerns. Think I was doing well. Of course I'm feeling...happy to have spent some time together. We had a couple drink after that just chatting while she dreaded going home to MIL. Her points about MIL drew into how she is not going to worry with making MIL happy with her actions anymore, she isn't living her life for others anymore. She says she has always done this and because of it she has no idea who she is or what she wants in life. She now seems to think its a good idea that she see a therapist after having thought about it and is going to check with her insurance to see who she can start seeing after then next 2 weeks. Don't know if I should really be allowing time like this but its not like I asked her to stay, just brought a couple extra hot dogs home.

Baby steps...


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Bunches you've helped me so much and as you know I'm just in the baby stages of my sitch. However, here's what I realized today and I think maybe it's right, but who knows.

As long as she's sleeping with another man she isn't anything to me, but the mother of my children and I will treat her as such. I will not go the extra mile to engage in conversation unless it is about the children or finances. IF and a big if she ever decides she wants to work on the marriage the only thing I will accept is "I made a mistake, how can we make our marriage work." I'm done feeding into false hope and letting her keep me around for Plan B. I'm not going to be a second choice, I'm focusing on me now and going forward.

I don't know how that relates to your sitch, but maybe stop letting her use you as her crying board and make her have to deal with things herself like our wive's are forcing us to do.


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Originally Posted By: Corbean
Bunches you've helped me so much and as you know I'm just in the baby stages of my sitch. However, here's what I realized today and I think maybe it's right, but who knows.

As long as she's sleeping with another man she isn't anything to me, but the mother of my children and I will treat her as such. I will not go the extra mile to engage in conversation unless it is about the children or finances. IF and a big if she ever decides she wants to work on the marriage the only thing I will accept is "I made a mistake, how can we make our marriage work." I'm done feeding into false hope and letting her keep me around for Plan B. I'm not going to be a second choice, I'm focusing on me now and going forward.

I don't know how that relates to your sitch, but maybe stop letting her use you as her crying board and make her have to deal with things herself like our wive's are forcing us to do.



Wow, for someone in the baby stages, that's pretty sage advice! whistle whistle


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At one point I even told my W that I felt like the plan B. And also that I did not know how long I would be around to let her figure her crap out. I went completely dark on W and then all of a sudden she started texting me and finally let me move back home. Every situation is different so who really knows what is best. My W swung back and forth many times. I swore it was over for good and suddenly she let me back.


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Well my wife just unfriended me on FB changed her status off married and her OM posted a selfie on his page that she like with the statement, "Ten years in the making, look who I found, or did she find me???


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I know that feeling....me and my whole family got unfriended two weeks after BD and the married status came down.

The selfie though is just douchebagish. Hang in there bro.


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It's your thread lol. Sorry I hijacked. I'm just trying to focus on that advice above.


Me-33,W-26
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Sobbering up this morning. BIL came over last night and brought drinks. Haven't talked to him much in the last several months. Don't think he knew what to say. Anyhow, it was an interesting night of conversation. Didn't realize but it sounds like his M is in danger too and he needed to talk more than I did. We did end up talking about W a good bit. He has no interest in getting involved and I said that was a good thing and why I would be willing to talk to him about it because he would not try to pressure her. BIL and W are extremely close and probably hang out several times a week. Anyhow, it went well with one of my 180's which is to be more social. Especially with family. I've always been one of those stay home guys who doesn't really want to go anywhere on the weekends. BIL also appears to have a drinking problem, says he is going to quit but really doesn't 'want' to so he just keeps on doing it heavily every weekend. I think I'm going to try to help him with it. No idea how though...


M: 43 W: 43
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Originally Posted By: Corbean
Well my wife just unfriended me on FB changed her status off married and her OM posted a selfie on his page that she like with the statement, "Ten years in the making, look who I found, or did she find me???


That [censored] big time and one I can relate to. Keep your chin up and focus on your goals. You have the forum behind you.


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So I managed to do alright for a GAL this weekend. Spent Friday with BIL having a good time. Had and excellent Saturday into early Sunday with friends a few hours out of town. A friend of ours is getting married in a couple weeks and we were celebrating for 2 days. Went by fast and managed to keep my mind off things for the time. Lost my cat on Friday. He got out of the house while BIL was over and haven't seen him since.

In other news, W just dropped off S and we had a quick chat about the normal hand off stuff and quick plans to meetup tomorrow for parent / teacher meeting. Our interaction these days is better than it has been but I had the friendly neighbor kind of conversation it seems to have become. She comes in most times and we exchange simple things about the weekend or such and then she takes off. I don't try to stretch it out or come up with additional things. I leave her mail for her and just keep it simple. DBing says this is the way to go. Just feels so awkward having no care for each others lives.


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So two weeks ago I found out about A that also made things seem like the A fizzled out. W was at the house last night and made some comments letting me know that the relationship ended and by the sounds of it she got dropped / suddenly ignored for the next girl on OM list.

Anyhow, W made some apologies saying she knows now how much that hurts and said she would not see anyone else while we are married. She still doesn't have money to file, she did ask me if I filed but said nothing else about it. I said no, which I haven't filed paperwork yet. Kept putting it off.

Just wanted to make sure I'm clear though. OM is out, supposedly but W is not making move to R. No pursuit still, right? I mean, this is time to pull away and see if she comes to me, am I right? I realize that I should not be thinking about R myself and should still be focusing on me but of course I can't help but think...


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Do you really want to take her back without her doing any of the work? Stay the course and keep working on you. Remember your boundaries.


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You are right Barry. I can't have her back like this, it wouldn't work. That's why we all need to talk about our sitch right. We make mistakes as individuals trying to manage our own sitch and need others to help us stop and correct course.

I'm still doing it wrong. W asked if I could pickup S tonight instead of her dropping him off. It was no big deal so I went ahead and agreed. Gave me the chance to say hi to BIL anyways. S learned how to ride a bike (w/ training wheels) tonight and they got to show me. We were both so excited I think we just forgot to think about the distance for some minutes and got to act like friends. After a bit though reality set back in and I took my leave. Tried to get back to working out again tonight but W decided to stop by during. She said she needed to talk to me so I took it outside as S was sleeping. She wanted to apologize. I just listened for a bit and she went on about being sorry for hurting me and making the wrong choices and staying silent for so long during marriage. But none of that made me feel better because she wasn't sorry for leaving. I wasn't near as detached in the conversation and towards the end she even got me to talk some about us. It made me realize I've made little to no progress at detaching. I'm still chasing crumbs of attention. I need distance, I need her to stop being around all the time and saying things like she did again tonight......she told me I was a wonderful man, but she didn't see things changing between us. She said she was doing what was right for her.

I'm tired...


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Don't be so hard on yourself. None of us are perfect. You know by now that this process is more about improving yourself than it is about your relationship with your wife and part of that, I feel, is learning who you are, what you represent and living your life according to those beliefs. That's not to say you should never forgive your wife; I hope she sorts her sh!t out and you do. It just means you should have self-respect and make sure your wife's actions back up her words, much like you've been learning to do since BD.


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We are all just frail humans we feck up, we mess up, we do wrong we learn and move on.

Really one day recently I logged in to my fb page and a lady I know just on fb for some years, her son15months had been admitted to hospital the night before and had died over night. It was then I decided you know what man up own your chit and get moving.

It's only game over when we are dead. Live life, the reason I left my first husband was he refused to live! Simple he became the ultimate victim.


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W already texting me again this morning to ask if I got any sleep after talk last night. I think I need to go dim. Summer break starts this week and we will finally be able to just start passing S back and forth once a week for June and then after that be in a schedule where she gets him for every other weekend and some weeknights when she can manage but no need to be around each other every day. I know my W wants to be friends and I don't know if thats possible but I just think I need to put some miles between us for me so I can get some work done on myself and quit being pulled back to her every few days. Am I wrong for feeling this way? Is it a bad idea?

I haven't answered her text this morning.


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I don't think I've been clear with boundaries so far. W dropped off S after school again today and had the impression that as next school year started up she would continue to get him from school each day and work out getting him to me after either spending time with him or just dropping him off right away. We have discussed daycare multiple times for next year and established that he would be living with me. I may not have communicated clearly but I don't know how she didn't get this one. I'm not sure if I'm being unfair but I currently have had to live most of my weekdays around her schedule. She is at my place every weekday when I come home and there is always an amount of awkwardness. I can't stop her from pursuing D but I don't want her over everyday then. I need my personal space without being reminded every day about her and her feelings. Is that so wrong?

She seemed so upset by it...not mad but upset, which I can understand as our plans are obviously different.


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The way your telling it she's left but still has you for connivence. I wouldn't allow her to clog up your weekend, especially if she's not prepared to do the work to come home.

I wouldn't answer her beeping you, you know road runner beeps at the coyote as he passes and the whole cycle begins again! Your tired, let her beep and run, sit and read a good book and rest!


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Feeling low and weak after difficult confrontation tonight.

W admitted how far the afair went and that it had been going on since before she left. She told me the guy didn't just loose interest in her. He is still M / S to his W but that he had pursued her before she left. He dumped her though recently so his W wouldn't find out. She said that I had told her some things last year around the time my dad died that I don't remember saying that made her feel unloved. I did have a bad period of time around then and didn't handle much well but I don't remember saying those things like that. I may have said something similar but not to the effect she took it. Anyhow, its out in the open now even more so.

I don't know how to write the rest....

Last edited by Bunches; 05/22/14 10:49 PM.

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Did she say what things you said to make her feel unloved? Can you think of anything from this period you can 180 if you haven't done so already?


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She said that she really knew things were not going to work last April in a car ride where I said that I did not want to get married when we did and that I did not want to have sex because she had put on weight. I don't remember saying that. But the car ride she is talking about was coming home from the hospital where my father was in a coma from a bleed formed in his brain caused by Leukemia. We had to make the decision that day to end life support, so I don't really know that I didn't say something stupid because I was emotionally torn up.

I do remember trying to convey to her a few times at the beginning of last year that things were tough when we first got married and that it had all gone faster than we should have and I was focused on the wrong things often and that caused a lot of distance. But I was trying to convey the message that I was a young idiot who didn't know how to be a husband and made mistakes. When we had those talks it was because I couldn't tell what was going on in her head and she wouldn't talk to me about them.

Whats the best 180 out of this? Don't say stupid things or just to get better at saying what I mean?


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I would talk with a DBcoach. To me you care about your M and family or wouldn't be here. Your wife is acting out and from what I've read, you have some hope and need to proceed in the best way possible. Reread and concentrate on Sandi's list.
You're doing some tough work, Bunches. Reflecting helps us to see ourselves better. It was a difficult time you were going through with your dad and stress causes us to latch out and say things we wouldn't normally say and do during other times in our life. During this time, it appears, your W kept silent and rather than expressing how hurt she felt, she decided to act out in a bigger way. At least you can recall the car ride. My H, soon to be x, has developed amnesia on a need basis and it's almost chronic when he's hurtful, during stressful times and not.

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Thanks Owl, you are probably right. W immediately turned the end of last nights conver. into when we could proceed with D. She has just been pushing that the whole time. Up until now I've just avoided the D talk and left alone but I think avoiding it is getting in my way. I'm letting it proceed at this point. It doesn't change anything in my mind, its just paperwork. I'm feeling clear of conscience with everything out in the open. She might feel like she had her reasons but she never brought them to me in the past or tried to get them resolved so I don't feel guilty. I recognize the mistakes for what they were and realize I need to be a better communicator. For now, it seems, things will start to be on a schedule where we aren't in contact so often and I think it will be much better opportunity for me to focus on me and stop worrying about her all the time. There has been a large wall up between us where she was keeping these secrets afraid that if I found out that I would file and cut her out of S life. That's not the case and she says she see's that now and will trust me as she is giving me custody without debate.

Last edited by Bunches; 05/23/14 05:24 PM.

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Seems like, at this time, you're really sure this is for the best and all looks good. Keep in mind, it's normal to not feel this way most of the time. Unfortunately, the emotions get in the way of what we know. Take care.

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Don't get me wrong. I don't think D is a solution to the problem. But my W has expressed on many occasions that I am just making things difficult, standing in the way of what she wants, and trying to fix something that she doesn't want. I think getting out of the way of D at this point can allow her to go on her journey instead of trying to keep her with me. I wouldn't think this was a good idea, but she keeps resenting me for trying to stay married.


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Has she been to see a lawyer? At the end of the day, you don't have to agree to a divorce AND you can not stand in her way at the same time. Let her do the heavy lifting. If she wants it bad enough she'll have you served. Until then, it's just spew, right?

I'm not sure whether asking her more about that period of time where your father passed away is a good idea or not. It seems important that if the opportunity arises that you find out more about her feelings. Hopefully you'll already be addressing them and if not, there will be some new 180's for you. You can't undo that period and it was unbelievably tough on you and I understand why you would feel confused about what she felt given your feelings at the time. She's taken it to heart though and if you want her back, she'll need to know it won't happen again (time, patience, consistent actions... you know the drill).


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Barry, W has seen a lawyer but she cannot do much because she is broke. My W wasn't working for the last 1.5 years before BD. She walked out at BD with nothing. She has a job with great legal insurance now and only costs $500 to file but she still can't afford it.

So I had a terrible blowout with W on Friday. Picked up my S to head out of town and we chatted for a minute about the summer plans. Somehow we keep getting wires crossed about plans and when I mentioned her picking him up Monday and then me getting him back the following Monday she blew up. She wanted him for 3 - 4 weeks solid with me visiting him instead. I don't want that because I want to see my S but believe we need to not be seeing each other every day or even every other. I let her draw me into an arguement instead of walking away and ended up saying things about trust that didn't need to come out. She lost it and walked out, sent me a nasty text saying I called her an unfit mother, called me back 5 minutes later to apologize, then started to tell me how I wasn't involved with my S his whole life, we argued some more, she cried and then hung up on me. We haven't spoken in 3 days but she did text me the next day to say she hoped we were having a wonderful weekend. Anyhow, we did have a great weekend at a lake. Had family along and a ton of fun for 3 days. Now W will be picking him up shortly and we have to talk again about the schedule. We will see how that goes. Going to read the 37 rules again before hand.

On another note, I'm finally reaching that point where I care but could go either way and am feeling pretty good about my future. W has really pushed me to the point where I'm letting things move along and think the best thing for now is going to be us being away from each other. W's A ended nearly a month ago but she seems just as determined as ever to D. She makes me nuts and I think it will do me a lot of good to be away from her as much as possible for the coming months.

Barry, what you said about asking for more specifics from last year seems to be out of reach for the moment. I think any R talk will have to stay out of touch for now until either things settle some more or until she feel different. I think there has been too much arguing recently and things need to settle and heal some.


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W came by tonight and picked up S for a week long visit. Until she finds a new job she has some time and wanted to spend it with him. I don't really object so...
We had a pleasant business like conversation about plans for the summer. I'm looking into signing him up for a camp starting next week, talked about some of the other things I'd like to do with him (Six Flags / Waterparks) and she seemed surprised. I didn't typically get out much before and now I have all these plans. Things recently are keeping the money flowing out but at least I'm feeling good about them. She did take the time to clarify why she said some of the cruel things she spewed on Friday which I'm just chalking up to emotion at this point. All in all, I'd consider it progress. Lines are drawn at this point and she is realizing I'm not here financially to support of emotionally to clean her mess up.


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Didn't even realize its been over a week since my last post. GAL has been in high gear recently. W took our S for about a week visit since she is not working again for the moment. Things were quite and I got alot done without thinking about R. I setup camp for S to go to and W and I agreed to meetup to drop him off so we could both check it out. We ended up talking for like an hour after that. She of course is really unhappy and things still not going her way. I still can't help feeling like I want to help her in some fashion. I always worry about her. She says there is nothing I can do since all of her life consequences are her fault at this point. No idea what to say to that one.

Anyhow, she messages me later to let me know she was in an accident tonight. Aparently scary situation but nobody hurt. I'm feeling kinda rough again today. Had a great week but all it took was hanging out and talking to her for an hour and I feel pulled back to her and can't get her out of my head again. Ugghh, I suck at being non dependant of her.


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Having some tough times again this week. W and I lived in this house for almost 8 years and I'm having to pack everything up this week to move into apartment next weekend. Seems like most things have their own memory and cause me to stop and think. Spent some time with friends today, but more so to avoid the packing than planned GAL stuff. I have to go out of town again for a few days this week. Work will have me driving back and forth to NC for the next few weeks. Bad timing but it can't be helped.

Did manage to make plans and spend another evening hanging out with BIL on Friday. According to him its not okay with W that I've been spending time with him or FIL. They have been so supportive, I don't plan on writing them off in life just because she is uncomfortable. She approached me about this once already. Seems to think I should be cutting ties sooner or later to anyone on her side of the family.


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Bunches, if you have read my threads I make mistreated all the time but here it's my advice.
As long as you are not spending time with her family to try and get info/talk them into "reasoning with her" or something like that I don't see a problem with it.
If you would hang out with these people just for who they are then I say go for it and ignore W. It's none of her business


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Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
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He moved in with ow 3/13/14
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Thanks Twin. I don't spend time with them to talk about W. I didn't spend much time with them before but thats been true for pretty much all of my family. I've always been one of those guys that just doesn't take the time unless someone else initiates spending time or setting up to do things. Since BD though things have just changed, between me and her family as well as mine. I talk to my parents regularly and hang out with several family members on an ongoing basis. I like the change in me that makes me feel like I'm there for others now instead of just....there when I have to be. I don't expect it to earn points. It will probably continue to irritate her but I don't think that matters. Whatever her problem is with me spending time with them is her problem. Family is not conditional and I won't just write anyone off for another persons choices or actions.


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Okay, so I get this email from W today. Really a bit aggrivating. I feel like she is turning perspective on me to make it look like I'm the bad guy now. She makes several examples to me changing the plans of visitation to S, but throughout my threads she was constantly changing life courses and then also lying to me about A until I found out. Now she is really unhappy with our situation and seems to blame me.

Here is her email below. I'm really disgusted with it.

"I know things are a little weird right now, but there is a lot of things regarding our situation that are bothering me and I am tired of holding back and not saying anything.

First of all, my biggest concern is S. When we first separated we agreed that we were to put S first regardless of how we felt about each other and what was going on between us. Up until the last month or two, I felt that we had done that. When I left, we agreed it was best for S to stay in the house with you, for at least the remainder of the school year, for his stability and routine. It was uncomfortable, but I picked him up off the bus everyday and spent time with him and saw you everyday, just to give him the time he needed with both of his parents. I still was unemployed and as much as he was living with you, I was still his primary care. We agreed that I would have him when he was not in school, so I decided to get a job as a bus driver so I could continue to be available when he was not in school. Then when I started my training for bus driving, I couldn't pick him up every day, so we worked out a joint visitation schedule that I could spend two evenings a week with him and every other weekend. That worked great! Then when I actually started driving, I again got to see him every day, but still spent the two evenings a week with him and every other weekend. Again that was fantastic. Then the plan was to have him move in with me for the summer, since again I would be on summer break with him, and you would begin with the visitation schedule that I had been abiding by for months. But when the time came, you were no longer comfortable with that, so I bowed down and agreed to your schedule of us having him every other week in a joint custody schedule. This no longer works for me. I understand that you don't want to see me, however, I didn't want to see you everyday in the beginning but I did so I could see my child and it was what was best for him. It is absolutely ridiculous for someone else to watch our child when I am perfectly capable and available to do so. We always said if one of us needed help with S for anything, the other parent would be the first to be contacted to be given the opportunity. You are now calling family members, a lot of the time my own family members, to take care of S when you are working, and to top it all off you and they are keeping it all from me. I have a right to know where my child is and who they are with and it is absolutely unacceptable for me not to have a chance to spend time with him when you can't. He's my son too, and I should definitely have a say in this. We said we weren't going to put S in the middle of all of this, but that is exactly what you are doing. He needs me, just like we both need him. So until, I have a different job and schedule, we need to revisit how the visitation is working out. If you don't want to see me, I can work it out with SIL to get S and bring him back to her, but I am not going to keep going a full week at a time without seeing my son. Let me know your thoughts on this.


Second, I am going to ask you to please stop contacting my family to help you out with S. I should be your first contact, and if I have a conflict, I will reach out to my family for assistance if necessary. Up until the last little bit, I did not mind you staying in touch with my family, but now that you and they are keeping it from me all the time, I do have a problem. This is a very delicate situation and we need to leave everybody out of it as much as possible. I understand that family is there to help, but putting the family ahead of the parent is not okay. I haven't done that with your family and I have ALWAYS gone to you first if there has been a schedule conflict with Nathan, and I don't intend on it changing. I ask that you show me the same respect.


I know that things are a little crazy for you right now with work, moving, and the divorce. I also know that I have hurt you a lot and I'm sorry for that. I really want us to be able to work everything out and have a good relationship for S's sake. I will not keep him from you and still want as much of a joint custody schedule as possible. It is what's best for S, and in all actuality, it's best for us as well. We need our son. And nobody, especially each other, should get in the way of that.


I'm sorry to hit you with this, however I'm tired of being quiet. All my life I've kept my mouth shut to avoid conflict, and I am always the one to get hurt because of this. I am trying to build myself a new life, and this is part of it. If you would like for us to meet somewhere and discuss this further, that's fine. But things are going to have to change one way or another. You can't keep changing the plan just to benefit yourself.
"


M: 43 W: 43
Married 6 yrs.
T: 7 yrs.
Son 20, 18, 17, 15 yrs. (w/ Autism), 12, 10

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Bunches, I've received some of the same type of comments from my WAW- how she's doing what's best for the kids (no, that would be their parents trying to work things out), how we should continue to be friends (despite the betrayal of an A) and how I've switched up plans without consulting with her (like we should be accommodating to a WAW?).

The mind of a WAW- it's almost like they have set plan of how things will work and as soon as we take a stand for what's best for us, it throws them off their game.

Maybe I'm just speaking from the bitter LBH perspective, but as long as you're not fishing for info, I think you should be able to contact who ever you want (including her family). If they have a problem with helping out with S, I assume they'll let you know. Tell W 'welcome to the world of D.' Ok, don't really say that : )



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Need some opinions. My W sent the email a couple posts back and I'm trying to word my response. I would ignore it but this is just going to boil over so I think I need to respond. I'm trying to avoid the spew and fight she is baiting while maintaining my boundaries and and getting my needs out there. Feedback welcome of the below.

"Your email was pretty big and you put a lot into it so I felt I needed to take time before responding. I’d like to start by saying I am glad for you speaking your mind. I understand that all that comes from keeping everything to ourselves is bitterness and resentment. I can see how you might feel that I’m making plans to benefit me from where you stand. I’m not going to get into what plans were and why because I think that will just lead us in circles from each of our perspective. I understand that you were much more comfortable with our previous arrangements and rightly so. I spent nearly 6 months trying to make sure your needs came first and that you were comfortable in whatever schedule we worked out. It seems that you were fairly happy with the arrangements, but just to be clear I was not. If you would like to make some schedule changes, then we can talk about it and arrange something. I think I have been flexible in making changes when necessary. I honestly did not think our most recent schedule could last more than 3 or 4 weeks. Depending on the job you find things may need a lot of arranging.
As for family, I don’t intend to stop having contact with anyone. They are all my family as well. There may be times I intentionally avoid mentioning things with them at their request, which is their business."


M: 43 W: 43
Married 6 yrs.
T: 7 yrs.
Son 20, 18, 17, 15 yrs. (w/ Autism), 12, 10

Joined: Dec 2013
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How about validating her feelings about the schedule, asking what she would like in a new schedule and ignoring the part about her family?

Something like "W, I understand that not seeing S for a week upsets you and I appreciate you voicing your feelings. What would be a fair arrangement to you?"


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
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Bunches Offline OP
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Thanks for the advice Barry. When we did talk I did not bring up the family members piece of conversation. I'm finally moved into my new apartment. Everything I didn't want to bring or belonged to W went into a storage space I've rented for 3 months. She is moving up her plans to get her own place in the next two weeks. Love my new apartment! Got new furniture that I really like and spent a lot of time recently hanging out with friends and family. I think I've finally gotten to that point where I'm secure in feeling like I have a future regardless of W.

On another note, I ran into W yesterday while emptying some odds and ends out of old house. She dropped in to pickup something and we began to talk about S schedule. A few minutes in she stops talking and starts crying. She said it was seeing our home in shambles and loosing it altogether. She started apologizing profuselly, saying she was sorry for everything. How things went down, how much pain she has caused, what she has done...it went on. I tried to validate, not sure how good I did because she got me really twisted up again. I think she is still experiencing withdraw from loss of OM. She is still trying to get some emotional support from me somehow. I keep trying to distance myself but it doesn't always work out because S has a lot of needs and she always seems to want to know what is going on. Anyhow, I know I just need to keep focused on GAL and myself. Let her deal with her and in the meantime just move forward.


M: 43 W: 43
Married 6 yrs.
T: 7 yrs.
Son 20, 18, 17, 15 yrs. (w/ Autism), 12, 10

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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I like to use the phrase "I know, this has been incredibly difficult on all of us." Validates and acknowledges her pain, while reminding her that her actions have impacted others, which is healthy I think.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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