She moved home but still in love with OM!

[Oxford1]

See there it happened again..I typed LITTLE, I PROOF READ IT.

I HIT SEND AND IT SAYS ; limitless....

[MrBond]

"I was trying to ask, what is the best way to approach my situation. I know she is cake eating."

To a degree. But you forgot what behaviors you exhibited during the M that got you to this point. She's at that point where she's undecisive because you are "safe" yet she can't be happy with you because you didn't see to her emotional needs like the OM does. Building that trust with you again will take time.

Right now she's on the "high" of the A. She used to have it with you, but over time, that faded and you didn't do much to rekindle it.

"The fight started originally because I was trying to detach a limitless more."

I didn't see where you were trying to detach. All I saw was you giving her an ultimatum of its you or nothing. That's what's bothering her.

"She wants me to do married couple activities with her , she tells me I am her best friend."

That is actually a good thing. Read the other sitches on here. Usually the WAS wants nothing more to do with the LBS and in some cases even has the LBS arrested for harassment.

"She wants to basically date me, but she's not willing to give up OM....yet."

That's because you haven't been presented as the better option ... yet. Why should she go back to you if things are the same? Wouldn't you leave a bad situation that you didn't feel would ever change? What change have you actually shown? You say you've read DB, but all I see is you concentrating on your W's A and not on yourself. And yet you are surprised when people on the other forums call your W a sl*t.

"Some of the things she said during phase two of the argument where almost a confession of the fact that we will never reconcile ."

By the time phase two of an argument occurs, all logic has already gone out the window and people are just acting out of emotion. You should have just stated things straight and to the point, validate her feelings where necessary and then end it.

"The problem was that the temper tantrum she was throwing was drawing me in , not pushing me away."

Don't blame her for this. YOU allowed yourself to participate. You could have just as easily told her that you both needed a breather and walked away. You're still not taking responsibility for your actions. You're still blaming her for the way you act.

It's the like the "abuse" comment. If you choose to see yourself as a victim, then you will remain a victim.

[Oxford1]

"Ok, so,we had our first argument since she moved back in. It was kind of cathartic.
I think it was a little fear because we are going to the lawyers tomorrow.
It's to work with some financial planners and set up the final boundries."

I don't understand how the lawyers are supposed to set up boundaries. That is for YOU to set up.
sorry for coming across so incoherent . It's really the Collaborative divorce coach (psychologist) and the financial planner . The Lawyers are there more as consultants to us...I should have been more specific.

"She keeps violating them but I am afraid I have been allowing it.
for example we were hanging out In the master bedroom I the bed talking when the argument started."

I don't get it. What boundary was crossed? It sounds more like you're trying to punish her rather than actually setting up something that protects your assets.

somehow she slips in " he won't let me do that" or " he has a good heart" or we went hiking and XXXXX was telling me"
She claims that I am leading her to bring him up in conversation; I could be maybe without knowing it? But I asked her to stop , she can choose not to answer, but 9 out of ten times she gets him into the situation. That is the boundary. My other is when we are with the divorce team and she Brings up her plans to move to Israel or his apartment is really there apartment ( my face probably flushes because I get a panic feeling when she does this), she senses it upsets me, and when we leave the meeting she asks if I am ok I looked awful at the meeting...to me bringing up moving there combined with then asking me if I am ok, when she knows full well what is (I told her) is to me a violation.

Then she said I feel bad, maybe we should put up a divider so you can sleep here.

Ofcourse for some reason that led to another big argument..she was yeeeeeellllllling I was actually getting a little attached to her , it was a rush to see how strong she can be and how she will protect her beliefs."

[MrBond]

"somehow she slips in " he won't let me do that" or " he has a good heart" or we went hiking and XXXXX was telling me"

I don't understand what this means. Who is "he"? Who is "we" and XXXXX?

"She claims that I am leading her to bring him up in conversation; I could be maybe without knowing it?"

Probably.

"But I asked her to stop ,"

Don't. Let her just let it all out. You'll learn alot by actually LISTENING to what she says. You'll pick up clues as to what she thought was lacking in her relationship with you. You might think it's total gibberish, but it means something to her.

"she can choose not to answer, but 9 out of ten times she gets him into the situation."
That is the boundary."

Then you're missing an opportunity to learn.

"My other is when we are with the divorce team and she Brings up her plans to move to Israel or his apartment is really there apartment ( my face probably flushes because I get a panic feeling when she does this), she senses it upsets me, and when we leave the meeting she asks if I am ok I looked awful at the meeting...to me bringing up moving there combined with then asking me if I am ok, when she knows full well what is (I told her) is to me a violation."

Why should this bother you? It is, after all, part of the D proceedings. She has a right to say things that are going to be uncomfortable to you just like you'll be saying things that are uncomfortable to her. It's more control on your part. You're going to have to learn to develop a thicker skin because things will get much worse before they get better.

Then she said I feel bad, maybe we should put up a divider so you can sleep here.

Ofcourse for some reason that led to another big argument..she was yeeeeeellllllling I was actually getting a little attached to her , it was a rush to see how strong she can be and how she will protect her beliefs." "

[Oxford1]

Xxxxx was her other man, she uses his name.

The we is when they went away for the holidays and what she meant was him , his friends and herself...

His friends completely support the affair.
One of them called me once and told me that I was a looser for trying to save my marriage and that doesn't their friend the OM deserve happiness!

I later found out that one of these friends has been married three times in fourteen years!

If any of my friends knew I was having an affair with a married woman they would never ever talk to me again. Especially the woman I know from work, oh and my family would disown me!

The other issue is during the argument I mentioned how I sometimes would tape a note to the inside garage door attacking her and that I found out from my mom that my father used to do that. My wife cried about that and said , you learned from your father.

MEANWHILE THE FIRST THING she said to me this morning was, I forgot about the notes thanks for reminding me, that's one more problem we had!

Ugh

[gogofo]

MEANWHILE THE FIRST THING she said to me this morning was, I forgot about the notes thanks for reminding me, that's one more problem we had!

Ugh

Ugh? Not ugh, you are missing the point. She is telling you what you need to do to change and have a chance to win her back. Listen with your heart, not with your ears.

From following your situation from the beginning and your recent posts it looks like you area an attacker. You justify it by seeing yourself as the victim.

She is telling you this and it is something you could change, if you want to.

Imagine what she would feel if you got into your conversations that you say turn into arguments and then instead of attacking her or the OM, like you have every single time you have documented it, imagine you did an extreme 180 and listen to how she feels and what she is telling you.

How would she feel? Is this something or someone you want to be? Only you can produce change in yourself but it will not come immediately and takes discipline.

You talk about being abused by her, but it looks like that door swings both ways. You cannot argue with someone who doesn't want to argue back. This 180 may leave you W wondering who this person is who is now interested in how she feels and is listening to her.

You need to stop your victimization of yourself and listen to what she is telling you. Your reaction to her statement this morning should not have been "ugh" it should be "wow, I didn't understand how much that could have hurt her, this is something I need to change."

She has every right to be upset with you and vice versa. You have to decide if you want to view her anger as constructive criticism or as fuel to your fire.

Which one would draw your W closer?

[labug]

Some very good food for thought from both Bond and gogofo.

Are you up to the challenge?

[Oxford1]

Some very good food for thought from both Bond and gogofo.

Are you up to the challenge?

This is great advise and even better pointing out and uncovering of the situation. All you know is what I write and it is SPOT on what the Neutral Coach has said.

And the Attacker comment ...wow if only someone said that to me...it hit me right in the memory bank.

Today I was speaking to a published psychological nurse at a cancer center client.

She told me to think with my heart not my emotions, she said stop talking and start doing.

She said I have to stop acting like the nine year old bullied need and grow up and act like the confident middle aged guy that any woman would want to be with.

All of this is just great info...
Thanks

[gogofo]

All of this is just great info...
Thanks

Now it is time for application.

[Oxford1]

All of this is just great info...
Thanks

Now it is time for application.

So the way my house is built the walk in closet is directly over the bathroom below. I was in that bathroom clearing out a clog and I could hear my wife speaking to other man.

I was not actively listening, but I could hear her threatening him the way she does me.

That's not the point.
She tells me she has not made up her mind etc. About the future.

Then I hear her tell him you have to understand where he's coming from, his wife stepped out on him do you understand that. Then she tells him I know about my husband and my past you don't have to bring it up and you don't have to bash him ( OM will not stop harping on our past abuses, mine in particular)

She then tells him if you don't let me talk I am hanging up on you.

Then she tells him I promise you i will honor the oath I made to you...( that hurts, what about the oath you made to me?)

Anyway now I did listen...she said to him, you have to understand I am just going through the motions, I've already promised you that when we divorce whether it's in six months or two years I promised you I will marry you and become your wife ( he has been essentially single for 20 years and he is 53).

I don't know if she's manipulating him, manipulating both, that is not important. I can see what is happening, but she and he focus on this entire abuse thing..

What are the chances of me really turning this around.

On one hand she tells me that she wants to do things with me etc like we are a couple, even buy gifts for our anniversary , we are not legally separated but she refuses to wear her wedding band.

I really am going to apply all the advice above and in DB ..

It's just hard to hear some of the things she says.

Ox