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cat04 #2447366 04/22/14 12:31 PM
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B,
I can agree with Cat's assessment of the situation completely, but there is also lessons to be learned in your last post.

Let me start with a point....In life you can true ownership of your actions or you can make things about you? They sound the same, but are very different. In the being about you....You do things and react to how it affects others from the standpoint of...This is how I do things, This is how I want things, and this is how it is going to be (A very common theme for you actually).

Now in taking ownership of your actions....You do things for you, but with others in mind. You are aware of how things you do affect others....You still have the control of the things you do, but you accept the responsibility of how they affect those around you. Your son for example, it used to be very much your way or the highway with him. As you have changed your relationship with him to being about ownership of action for each of you....and even more so understanding and communication, the relationship is changing. It sounds like he is taking ownership of the things he does and accepts responsibility of it...and you listen and respond better...taking ownership of your reaction to his actions.

Now let's get to the gym.....You comments on the conversation tell me you listened to her, You did a good job paying attention, but you did not HEAR her.

The root of the conversation was not about the gym....nor was it actually about you buying the gym. Nor was it about you doing things for yourself.....it was totally about you not listening and hearing.

Now you may or may not remember any conversations about buying a gym in the past, but that is really irrelevant. We could switch the content to many other items and the the same scenario could be said....Dealing with the kids, holidays, parents staying at the house, grocery shopping, etc. These are all things that have come up since you have been on the board that could be inserted into the place of the gym.

Now we are looking at the old B....and yes it has to be done. To change the future, you definitely have to understand the past. The old B did things his way....not anybody else's way...His way because he was always right. Part of this "always right mentality" is that you didn't listen.....and not being heard eventually leads to resentment.

The real heart of your conversation last night was this....Your wife resents you for not listening to her side of things. Not giving her thoughts, opinions, feelings, etc a moment of thought as yours were the ones that matter. Yes, you did buy the gym for yourself and you have that right. So don't feel bad about that or frustrated....The frustration should be that in the past you did not acknowledge your wife's perspective on things and that is something you are working on.

Take the conversation as a lesson on how you you communicated in the past and work towards changing it.


"Be the changes you want to see in the world"
Lostforwords #2447367 04/22/14 12:42 PM
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So I'm supposed to live for myself now and remember when I didn't consider my wife's feelings in the past so I'm able to live independently while being thoughtful of others in the future?


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2447373 04/22/14 01:29 PM
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LOL....Yes.

You learn from the past, when you weren't thoughtful of others, so you can change in the present, and be a better man in the future.

You are hitting it right on the head....You can live independently while be aware of others.

If you truly want an interdependent relationship with people....What we are discussing is a first step must.

A good example is our relationship. We both have our lives that are independent from each other, but we come together to discuss what is going on. I don't tell you what to do...we just discuss what can be done. You in the end make that final decision. Now if I told you that a,b, and c have to be done and there is no other way....That is me putting my way on you with no regards to your thoughts or feelings.

Now if I suggest a, b, or c based upon our discussions.....and then you make the decision. That is closer to interdependent.

I am not telling you what path you need to walk....I am only offering you what paths may be there from my perspective and you get to decide which path to follow.


"Be the changes you want to see in the world"
Lostforwords #2447512 04/22/14 07:48 PM
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Ok, thanks LFW and Cat. I was confused because I did something for myself and felt good about it and at the same time, I felt horrible for missing how it made my wife feel as I could see how she felt controlled through our relationship. Overall though, my feeling is that I've bought the gym for me to add to the life I'm trying to live independent of my wife and while I'm upset at how it's made her feel, she's chosen this route and until I have an opportunity to be thoughtful of her, I feel I should keep doing things for me.

So yesterday, I spent the morning at home with the kids. I promised them we would build and paint little wooden things my wife and I bought for them on Sunday and I told them it wouldn't be getting done first thing in the morning (my kids have been waking up before 6:30am). As the morning passed, my girls decided to be little b*****s and I felt myself getting angry and frustrated. I put some cartoons on in the other room and took a time out for myself. I don't want to yell at them or smack them and they were really pushing me. I calmed down and let the kids through the house again and a while later, my girls started again and this time, my son started being annoying too. My blood started to boil again and again I sent the kids out of the room I was in so I could settle down. By the time I'd settled down again, the babysitter was due in half an hour and we didn't have time to paint the wooden things. My kids were disappointed and I was too.

I don't want to let my kids down. I also know I don't have the energy to spend time nicely with them when their behaviour is poor. I felt really proud of myself for not yelling yesterday even though I got close several times. I felt upset that they were upset that I said they could paint their things and we didn't end up doing it. I felt more upset when I got home from work to find that my wife had let my son start painting his and she knows I told them we would do it. I'm trying to keep my word to my kids AND they're frustrating me to the point of needing time out for myself. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2447534 04/22/14 08:56 PM
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My frustrations with my kids generally originate from several sources. I don't like conflict and they pick at each other. Drives me crazy, can't they just get along? I have to step back because for some reason I feel I am responsible somehow for their actions (obviously with kids, that is somewhat true, not true at all with fellow adults though). I want to control them so that they act the way i want. Which leads to expectations.

They aren't doing what I want them to do, which is to get along. I should really expect that they are kids and that they will constantly pick at each other. Then I wouldn't be 'let down' but rather pleasantly suprised when they did get along!

And last, I get frustrated when I can't do something they ask for. Like yesterday, I took them out to fly kites. Now while I was helping my daughter, my son asked me three times for help with his kite. Some weird codependecy thing gets me upset when I can't fufill a perceived need in someone I love. Each time he asked I got a little more irritated.

I do know that when I discipline them, it has to be in a calm and cool manner. And, I can't be wishy washy over the long haul. Discipline must be done immediately, consistently, and ideally without any anger. A simple, 'you did this and therefore you get this'.

Anyway, definately a challenging subject, the disciplining of children. Perhaps a warning next time that 'if X keeps happening, we won't have time to do painting'. Then the responsibility is all theirs and you just wind up with a small sense of dissapointment....


me 41 w43
married 20 years
BD 10/10/13 ILYBNILWY....
4 kids, 21,18,8,6
tough spot #2447642 04/23/14 06:32 AM
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Thanks tough spot. I'm not sure what to do at the moment so I gave myself time outs yesterday to calm down instead of flying off the handle at the kids. I'm proud of myself for not snapping. Unfortunately, I also let the kids down by not doing their woodwork pieces with them. My wife sent me a message this morning noting that I hadn't done the woodworking with them. I'm a little pissed off at this because she's not in the trenches dealing with the kids. I understand that she doesn't care about what I do at the moment, even if I'm busting my butt to treat the kids better and be a better parent.

Speaking of the message, she sent a pretty snarky one this morning:

Here's some communication for you since I didn't actually have energy to tell you last night:
D4 vomitted on the lounge. Could you deal with the cushions outside the laundry this afternoon? Babysitter knows since she was here but she's going to keep an eye on her today.
S6 will be apologising to you today. He asked if he could open his craft thing to look at. I said ok. This morning I noticed he's started it. I told him that you'll be upset because you were supposed to do it with them. Not sure why you didn't yesterday.
Could you take chicken out this afternoon when you get home. I'll cook again.
Thought I'd save you assuming why/how things are around the house.
Just remember assume is to make an ass out of u and me.


As much as I don't like her attitude towards me right now, and I deserve it, her communication is clear. She asked me to tell her how I feel, I did by telling her our communication was poor and she's addressed that. That's all I asked for. I don't know where the part about S6 apologising came from. I didn't acknowledge this comment with my wife. Instead, I discussed it with S6 when I saw him after work. Anyway, my response to my wife was this:

Point taken and thank you for writing it down. Thanks for letting me know about D4. The girls were causing trouble yesterday so we didn't get to the woodwork. I'll take chicken out for you. I'm going to try harder to not assume things. Enjoy your day.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2447649 04/23/14 09:34 AM
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B,

Good stuff....Your wife was clear and concise. As you noted, this is what you asked for. At some points in your marriage you might have seen it as nagging, but in reality it is setting clear expectations of what needs to be done....with no assuming (I use the assume statement all the time).

I hope you were successful in explaining to S6 that their behavior was why you did not do the project. Give the kids responsibility for the consequences of their actions.....The girls it is harder to teach, but nobody said being a parent is easy. I will say though.....nothing has affected my kids behavior patterns more than letting them know when I am disappointed in them. Just a nugget of parenting advice to pass along.

I like how tough spot thinks about parenting...That is the experience of having children. I would read that post a bunch of times.....There is a lot there.


"Be the changes you want to see in the world"
Lostforwords #2447656 04/23/14 10:16 AM
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My wife was never much of a nagger. Her way was to shut up shop and not talk to me. I've discovered through this process just how little we really talked about meaningful things. I feel that my wife feels pressured now that I'm opening up, hence her plan to move out, yet I feel that it's an important step towards a more respectful relationship, whatever that entails. She's not going to put up with my nonsense and I'm not going to tolerate poor communication.

Speaking of moving out, my wife asked me tonight what I would prefer with regards to our living situation. It was a hard conversation as I don't know what I prefer to be honest. My wife doesn't really have an opinion on it either or isn't prepared to share with me yet if she has one. On one hand, I would like to leave the kids in the house we have and have my wife and I switch between places, something my wife suggested back in January. On the other hand, if we are to have our own space, I want my own space; somewhere where things will stay where I put them, where I can clean as much or as little as I want without repercussion, somewhere I can sleep in the same bed and shower in the same shower each night. I said to my wife that sharing a place away from the kids will still mean each other being in our space even when the other isn't around. I'll just wait and see what my wife says about it now.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2447671 04/23/14 12:30 PM
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Ok barry, where to start?

You have some great people posting to you. Mach, knows what he is talking about. Lost brings up great points too. I love the topic of interdependence/codependence/dependent/and independent. Those are terms you really need to become familiar with. As you learn what they are, you will be able to see the patterns in your relationships.

The kids...they are kids. They are going to be noisy, dirty, and drive you nuts. You need to find a level of acceptance with it. So that you dont get so easily frustrated. Pick you battles wisely because there will be lots of them.

My S is almost 20. BF's S is 13. They both have this hugly annoying habit of fidgiting. I mean constant movement of some sort. Makes me want to ask them to leave the house. For me, that is one of my battles, at the dinner table only. Other times, i do my best to ignore it because it is part of who they are. Took a long time to learn that.

Your W...well i hate the tone that comes across in her communication with you. However i understand it to a small degree.

By demanding clear concise communication...you are controlling things. Sort of a theme that is hard to escape.

We can try forever to not be controlling however enforcing boundaries is going to make us appear controlling to someone on the planet.

So try to explore these things a little as i have already typed too much from my phone and my frustration with touch screen is beginning to rise lol...



"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
cat04 #2447673 04/23/14 12:39 PM
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Lol at the touchscreen bit. I understand how asking for and expecting better communication could be seen as controlling. The big thing I've learned through this process is that my wife and I need to find who we are and part of that is determining things we like and dislike, things we will tolerate and non-negotiables. For me, better communication is a non-negotiable. It either happens or our relationship will forever be strained. My wife will have her own list of non-negotiables too and that's fine. Don't get me wrong, I know I have to improve my communication as well. It's going to be a huge red flag in any future relationship if I can't communicate effectively with my partner.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
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