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^^^ right! Only 2 of my friends and my parents know. I have no idea who he's told, but that's on him.

And I did have to lay it on the line for each if them that I'm driving this car until the wheels fall off, so please don't bash him. (I honestly don't even talk about it any more- nothing to report! Lol!)

It was actually one of my friends who suggested I don't tell people. It will be hard for them to not want you to feel better ASAP, instead of working through things in time. If one of my friends came to me with the same sitch, I would tell her/him to cut their losses and move on (BEFORE all of this happened, that is wink )

And if your H is making decisions out of pride, he's gonna be miserable down the road. (Mine is doing the same thing).

Hang in there!


Me: 39
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
[quote=claire7]25yearsmlc: I think I get what you are saying. We all have...


Hi 25 - your insight on these boards is perhaps even more valuable than the books (sorry!). I think I'm still in some mode (but off of moderation now, yay!) whereby I cannot PM you. I wanted to see if you'd visit my most recent threads (sorry to the OP for that on this thread) and lend your insight. Again, to all, sorry and thanks.

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artsy-- a bit too late for me for that. Oh well. I can only move forward. I've come to my senses though and have stopped talking about it in a one-sided way--I've actually stopped talking about it much at all with most people. (and most people don't ask much anyway).

Bit of journaling-- trying to stay in the positive... Need to show him consistent change. He's brought up a couple of things recently that seem to indicate that he's not 100% convinced that I'm capable of lasting change, at least in regards to my relationship with him. So... instead of feeling defeated when he doesn't respond the way I'd like him to (when I give him a compliment on his parenting, or ask him how he is feeling), I'm trying to just stay the course. Take a breath. The truth is, if I'm really honest with myself, that I am not a completely different person. I've changed in many ways, but the "old" me still creeps in at moments. So I have to be patient with myself, too.

But man do I hate this detached, friendly co-parenting thing. When he writes, "Hey, thanks for that nice note. That was nice to hear," it sounds to me a little bit like I'm glad you are coming around to our new situation. This will make things easier for all of us in the long run. And I'll respond politely, but I won't offer anything back to you that might make you think I'm starting to change my mind. Because I'm not. Just want to be clear on that. But I'm so glad we can be nice to each other through this, because there are no hard feelings. Sometimes things just don't work out and we will all be better off this way, and I'm so glad you are starting to see that, too.

Argh.


Me 38 H 40
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Originally Posted By: claire7
Originally Posted By: Upwards

A massive 180 would be YOU planning your own things then! It doesnt have to cost lots, there is loads that can be done cheaply or free that i'm sure you & your D would enjoy.


Yes, I agree. Working on it. Also working on gaining more confidence in taking her on bigger trips by myself.

Quote:
Also fear plays a big part in how the LBS feels. You need to strip back what your feelings and try to get to the root of whats causing it, thats the only way of knowing whats really going on for you.


For a long time, I was so afraid that he would leave me.


Please READ THIS^^^ and notice... NOTICE that we often bring about the very things we fear, when we let fear decide things for us or affect how we behave and how we treat others or ourselves. Notice this and learn from it.


I had so much anxiety about keeping our daughter safe--partly because I knew that if something happened to her, there would be nothing keeping us together. (Wow. Sounds pretty terrible!) But now that that great fear has been realized-- and the world has gone on (and I'm actually handling it quite well), I just don't have that fear anymore.

I hope you take the lessons from this, that are needed...enough said (right?)

I know that I don't want to go back to how things were. I was not happy in the R.

The old marriage is dead and gone. Let it go as neither of you were happy. It's okay to concede that. It's crazy Not to concede that. AGREE with your h about the need for that marriage, to fade out... nothing to argue about there, is there? So let him see that you get it!


I guess if he was willing to confront his side of things and work on changing himself, then I'd be very willing to do the same.


PLEASE STOP THIS THINKING^^^^...it's a cop out. It's conditional. It is you saying "I will improve ONLY IF I think HE WILL, AND THEN....I'd be very willing to do the same"....why does he have to change anything before you do?

And excuse me, but he is not here trying to save the marriage; You are.

So it's YOU, the LBSer, who takes the first step, and the next step, and the next 309485 steps if needed. Don't count and don't measure.

You do your work in your sandbox and you stay out of his sandbox.
The LAST thing he needs to hear from you is what you'd "be willing to do IF IF IF he..." anything.

Just Do your work. Let him worry about his own. But trust me, if he were to see real lasting deep change IN YOU, he'd want to do the same. FOR HIS SAKE...

B/C seeing someone who is at peace with themselves, content inwardly and outwardly, is someone to emulate.


So, I guess at this point it's worth holding out hope for that.

Well, your changes are for you, remember? Regardless of what he thinks/feels (which you will not know), it's your work to do. Period. It's NOT related to him. Do you see that?


Two questions:
1) Is it at all appropriate to date while you are DBing? (My hunch is NO, you remain committed to the marriage, but I don't know for sure!)

People here, including some DB coaches, vary in their answers. If you are actively SAYING you want to work on the marriage and you are under the same roof, obviously it's a bad idea to date. \

But when separated, there are arguments that go both ways. For ME, a lot depends on who is trying to prove what, and which party (the WAS or the LBS) is the one dating. It's NOT one size fits all but as I said, it'd be different if you were under the same roof, have kids exposed to it (never do that unless you think the R with OM was getting serious) and who the walk away is...

Sometimes, an LBSer who dates, realizes they are not going to be alone the rest of their lives if their spouse does not return AND OR the WAS realizes that the LBSer really is a good catch and only the attention of OMs awakens that realization. IT VARIES...

But I caution you, do not date solely as a tactic to get the spouse to return.

For one thing, it's not fair to the OM/OW who is essentially being used...so honesty is crucial there...and for another, if the reason you date is as a tactic, it usually shows thru in some way. IOW, it fails as a tactic.


2) How do folks handle birthdays or special occasions of in-laws? My nephews' birthdays are coming up-- do I buy them gifts? From me? From me and D3? From just D3?? I don't want to come across as pitiful or manipulative--is it inappropriate for me to insert myself in their lives now??


are you "inserting" or simply remaining in their lives?

Don't drop off the face of the earth. Make it clear that a gift is from you and D3 and then DROP IT and don't wait around acting as if you expect thanks (and some words of encouragement, etc) from them. If it's a GIFT, then give it. No strings/expectations or hopes, attached...make sense? Let them learn to relax around you. NO neediness from you. Your friends and YOUR family are for that, not your h's.


I'm pretty positive I won't be invited to their birthday celebrations (my H and D3 will be, though I'm not sure they will even tell me about it beforehand), so will it seem desperate and lame for me to send them a gift on my own?? I miss them. :-(



IF your d3 is invited and goes with your h, then I assume HE will buy a gift. If not, or if unsure, ASK your h if he wants you to pick the gift up and then send it with him/them....involve yourself in a helpful way but if he says he's got it covered, LET HIM...

Also here is a list of things I did to GAL when I really did not feel like it but knew I HAD to...

I did these when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. And I had 3 kids, including an infant (so you know I don't want to hear about how 'you are 'too busy' to GAL).

Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your h. OKAY--

I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.

I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).

I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).

I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.

I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well.

I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.

I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.

I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding.

Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license.

Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)

I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. (Plus I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was NOT at all easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly cold of their long LONG winters).

In the winter, I used a tanning booth, which helped me a lot with depression. I felt more energized, and it probably helped my appearance, which also helps us FEEL better.
(I know that those tanning booths post skin cancer risks. But I was facing a LONG brutal winter, again, and made the choice I felt was healthiest for ME at that time).

Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.

Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).

Joined the Officer's Wives club after 15 years of active duty.

(Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)

Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking

There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot. Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
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X marries OW 5/2016

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Just read your 'quote' from what you think he is saying to you Claire. I'm in a sort of similar boat. I'm working on the 180 thing. Following Sandi2's 37 Rules. Me and WAW are getting along great when we do talk. But I get the feeling what she's saying to me is "Great. You now agree our marriage is over. Let's just get along as if we are great friends but nothing more".
It seems as if all the changes I'm trying - not contacting first unless with regards to daughter, keeping fit, going out more and when she asks am I going out I say yes, even though I might not be ie to appear more outgoing than before etc - but I feel it isn't working.
I feel like what I'm doing is counter productive. However, she was texting me from daughter's phone earlier pretending to be daughter to joke about something. Then when I rang her they were both laughing. I was too because it was funny. It was like the old days. But I know if I brought this up she's go into her shell and say I need to get over things ie we're over.
This is sooo tough.


M 35 W 31
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EXCELLENT advice from 25yearsmlc above, I was going to reply but everything I was going to say has been covered smile

Originally Posted By: claire7
But man do I hate this detached, friendly co-parenting thing. When he writes, "Hey, thanks for that nice note. That was nice to hear," it sounds to me a little bit like....


STOP!!! You are mindreading, he was saying that you & that it was nice to hear, thats it, thats ALL that you can take from what he said without mindreading.

What was the note out of interest if you dont mind me asking Claire?


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claire7 Offline OP
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Upwards: One of my action steps towards my goal is to offer him compliments about his parenting (something he is not super confident about). So, it was related to that. I tended to be pretty controlling with regards to parenting (high anxiety and OCD/perfectionism issues), so it's a big 180 for me to ask for his advice on parenting, or to accept a suggestion from him and say, "Great idea" without saying, "Yes, I know I've already read all about that," or "no, that's not what the experts say" or something superior and obnoxious like that. I was always trying to get him to "read the books" or do x,y, or z... and he never would. But, now he is telling me about the articles he's reading and strategies he is trying. Good for him. Good for our d3.


Me 38 H 40
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T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

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I have a similar 180. I always chose/decided everything for our D7 (school, clothing, activities, daycare, outings, etc.) and rarely consulted his opinion. When he offered one, it was usually wrong. I think I'm more aware of this now. I've made a point of saying positive things about his parenting with D7. That has an extra benefit, too, as his LL is words of affirmation.

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Originally Posted By: hope456
I have a similar 180. I always chose/decided everything for our D7 (school, clothing, activities, daycare, outings, etc.) and rarely consulted his opinion.

Please let me use this^^ as a 'teaching point' without feeling as if I am bashing you. But this^^ behavior when it's in a man, is seen as CONTROLLING as heck, and comes off as critical too....b/c the other spouse is clearly not as capable as the one choosing...

so as easy as it is for we women/mothers to "do it all" we have to remind ourselves that it's NOT a quality or attribute to cultivate. It's mainly a flaw we have to work on modifying or eradicating.



When he offered one, it was usually wrong.


and here^^ we have the evidence that it is seen as "WRONG" of them to disagree w/us. Chances are the suggestion or answer is more subjective than "right vs wrong" and that gets hard to admit bc we THINK we have "worked it all out already" and our preferences are the "Right" ones...

but in truth, most of what we choose is not crucial and our spouse's preference is just as good as ours, sometimes it may not be but it's rarely a life and death matter. And if it's not, then why did we insist on having it our way and self righteously demand that it be done our way?

I think it's partly b/c as mothers (esp if we are stay at home mom's) we don't get a lot of positive accolades, and we don't get a "bonus or promotion" for a job well done. We need that...so perhaps we are more insistent than we need be, b/c we need some pats on the back. Too bad we couldn't just tell our h's that!



I think I'm more aware of this now. I've made a point of saying positive things about his parenting with D7. That has an extra benefit, too, as his LL is words of affirmation.


Ah well maybe this^^ is why My DB coach said to "applaud loudly for the 1% of positives they do" and at the time it felt so hard to do, that I had to work hard on it.

In retrospect, I'm embarrassed b/c giving compliments is simply a loving thing to do, and it costs me nothing. You'd never know that however...

Right as she told me that, I heard myself thinking "but if I compliment him for X, then he'll take Y for granted and might treat me worse ....."

It was as if I was risking something by complimenting my h! I was so wrong.


It was really the opposite b/c we risk a lot more by with holding compliments! We empty their love tanks b/c we don't add to it!

My h responds so much more to positives than negatives, I can't believe it took me decades to realize what could and should have been clear to me, much sooner.
I get treated much better b/c I compliment him more than before..
Lesson learned.


Does this resonate?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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claire7 Offline OP
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^^^ 25yrs: The msg you replied to was written by hope456, not me... but since I could have said a lot of the same things myself, I read your reply closely.

Yes, it resonates a lot. This is definitely something I'm committed to working on in my next R (with my H or whoever else). I'm also working on it with everyone else in my life-- my D3, my parents, my colleagues...


Me 38 H 40
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T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

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