Sigh. I'm so glad that you have asked for forgiveness. Problem is? I don't see you actually receiving any forgiveness. When people tell me that they are asking for forgiveness, I think that they are confused. I think that they are really asking for an opportunity to change things. On a conscious level, people know this is impossible and they can't turn back the hands of time. On a subconscious level, though, I think that they are really seeking precisely that which is impossible - to go back and change it. Please receive forgiveness. Please forgive yourself. There is nothing more you can do other than change your behavior (the true sign of being contrite). You have obviously made great strides in doing so. Oh and that humility lesson? It's the best one we can have. Another lesson in humility? You aren't God. You can't turn back time. You can't change the past. You don't get to make decisions for others. But you do get to make decisions for you! Funny, isn't it? We want to make all the decisions for others, but we have such trouble making decisions for ourselves. Make the decision to play the cards that are in your hand instead of wishing you had other cards.
Soooo... one day my husband came home. Only I didn't want him home. I was still pretty angry and not at all thinking very healthy. Plus we have the added complication of alcohol addiction.... but I digress. I dated a guy very briefly during our separation. Guy was awesome. Had 2 beautiful daughters (my chance to be a step mommy!), was so handsome, very witty, very fun, independently wealthy, even came armed with a seminary degree (did it in his spare time - unbelievable!)... There were a few issues, but on paper, boy he was so wonderful... Thing was? Relationships don't happen on paper, they happen in the heart.
OM is not better than you. He might be better than you for her (and boy I know that still hurts), but not better than you. We waste precious time with these comparisons because they are so meaningless. And for me? Despite what the paper said, my husband was ultimately right for me. This had absolutely nothing to do with the wonderful guy, but had more to do with my connection with my husband. It's a hard pill to swallow, I know. But you can't view this as not being good enough because it has nothing to do with that. It's about 2 puzzle pieces fitting together. I have no idea whether or not your ex is thinking clearly now to understand if OM fits her better. All I do know is that if that's the case, it doesn't diminish your worth one iota. She doesn't get to decide your worth. You do. Again, it may sound like I'm offering platitudes, but it's more eternal truth.
Also, can you please stop apologizing about your need to come here and talk this thing out? That's about the healthiest thing you can be doing. Stop calling yourself pathetic. Pathetic is someone sitting in their room by themselves wallowing in self pity and refusing to do anything to dig themselves out. I know. I did it for awhile.
Hey LIS. I think when I ask for forgiveness it's because I sincerely think that I did something wrong. In this case, failed to value a gift that I was given and did not nurture my relationship or marriage. It's an act of contrition I guess....and maybe I feel as if expressing true remorse for my attitude and actions will results somehow in happiness on some level.
I am both encouraged and discouraged by the story of your OM. It's good to hear that someone (you) had the heart to realize that what was on paper did not matter as much as what you felt....your connection with your H. I think my XWs connection to/feelings for me are at best deeply buried and at worst flat-out MIA. She had said before that her heart felt closed to me....and then said it was difficult for her to finally open it up to someone (in this case, OM) during our counseling session. So....at least it opened....just not to me.
I am moving on and moving forward as best I can. I know what my reality is....but I still hope for miraculous things....who doesn't, right? I know that my comparing myself to OM is not "right" - I need to stop....it is male ego. And, like I said, I am jealous. Not the best emotion - but I am just being honest. And it is the very notion that he is better for her than ME that does burn....because I laid out my best for her - through ups and downs, good and bad....and it just wasn't enough. 25 said that she needs to see others (this is her first R post-D) to see me and herself more objectively. I hope she is right.
I am still grounded in reality, GM. I know my circumstances and I know I have to move on whether I like it or not. Facts kind of trump hope most days. Though I do see 25's point I am still anchored in "now".
So you will love this......email from her this morning.
"I'm looking to book summer trip to Iowa. Are you open to compromising and giving us some extra days to travel?".
Honestly, what is the compromise?? I am not asking her for anything nor does she have anything I want. How does she view this as a compromise? She uses that language ALL THE TIME. I have not responded yet. But seriously? How does she see this as a compromise to be made? ALWAYS looking for extra days from me for her trips to Iowa. Does she think this is a good time to ask? Given all that has come up?
From what I have seen in all my years here, is that there has to be some sort of a loss in order for the wayward spouse to turn around in any kind of way...
And any kind of ploy, or act to do so...will backfire...
I am talking of genuine loss, in order for anything to change....
And more often than not, because the loss is real, the LBS holds the key to all of this....
In my humble opinion, your Ex has never lost you, and therefore has no reason to ever seek you out, other than to get her way with your parenting.....
If it were me, my response to her latest, would be...
I think it best, if we stick to our current schedule, so that we do not to confuse our Son any further.
I think when I ask for forgiveness it's because I sincerely think that I did something wrong. In this case, failed to value a gift that I was given and did not nurture my relationship or marriage. It's an act of contrition I guess....and maybe I feel as if expressing true remorse for my attitude and actions will results somehow in happiness on some level.
I don't know if you are speaking of something more of the spiritual sense, or if you are referring to asking for forgiveness of some person you have wronged......or maybe both. What concerns me about what you said here is I have to wonder if you feel you are being punished? Either by your XW or God, or both?
Has your XW ever said, or given any indication, she has forgiven you? I remember you writing a very heart-felt letter when you were scheduled to meet in court, and she was touched by what you said. I just can't remember her actually saying at some point she forgave you of anything in the past.
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maybe I feel as if expressing true remorse for my attitude and actions will results somehow in happiness on some level.
Who are you referring to? By that, I mean who are you watching to see if they give you this happiness as a result for your remorse, change of attitude and much improved behavior? You want to be rewarded with happiness. From who?
Who is punishing you, and who do you want to reward you with happiness? And, is this happiness in general (you said at some level), or is it more specified? IOW, do you have something more tailored in mind? Such as, a R with your XW, and your son able to have both parents living together again?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Mach - you (and many others) are right. Try as I might, I have never truly vanished on her. Ever. I have always been there when she has needed me.....without question. So no, she has never lost me.
We each have ten consecutive nights that we can take in the summer with him for vacation. To date because of work I have not been able to do 10 nights with him. Since she is off in the summers it is not a problem for her - she could take 20 if I would let her. I literally do not need additional vacation days from her....I can't use all the ones I have - so there is no compromise to be had. Plus I do not have much of a desire to try and bargain with her for anything. I am not going to. I mean really....10 nights isn't enough? Come on.
Then I get conflicted about what kindness looks like. If I was kind would I let her have those days she is asking for? To her, it will be read as me being retaliatory or punitive.
Remember - in our C session one of the "objectives" she wanted to achieve was getting better at negotiating parenting time because "sometimes he gives me 5 days, some days he gives me 10....and I have the summers off". To contrast, I said in my objectives were that I wanted to try to learn who the other person is now and get to a place where we can stop our S from hurting. Selfishness.
Sandi - just saw your post. I meant from a spiritual sense. And I do often wonder if I am being punished by God for not valuing the gift I was given in the manner I should have.
XW said in our counseling session where she dropped the OM bomb that she had forgiven me....and herself (which she said was hard) but she never said what she forgave EITHER of us for. I would really like to know what she forgave herself for because she has never indicated to me that she did anything wrong other than "allow" me to be the way I was. With regard to that letter -- I think it did touch her. And then her dad told her that I was saying all of that because I wanted to save the M so I wouldn't have to pay alimony and child support....seriously....he told her that. And I know that she still grapples with whether or not that is true.
As foolish as it might sound, to answer your last question, I think I meant happiness from God again. I would WANT that happiness to be my family back together again - but right now I would settle for just being able to not care about her anymore and enjoy life once again. Part of me wants to climb to a mountain top and scream to the sky God! I have learned my lesson! Please help me fixed what is broken! Again, embarrassing - but I am trying to be a transparent as I can.
Ever heard about the woman who was wheeled into the delivery room to have a baby......and she kept saying she changed her mind? True story!
Okay, what about a young girl who is barely in her teens who discovers she is pregnant, and she falls before God with her heart broken, ashamed, humiliated, and embarrassed. She sincerely asks God to forgive her. How will she know if He forgave her? Will she go by how she feels afterward, or how people treat her, or what happens in her life? What would you tell her, Crimson?
Let me go a step further. What if she questioned if she had been truly forgiven based on the fact she was still very much pregnant? Should she expect God to vanish the pregnancy to let her know He forgave her? Maybe I should rephrase that question, IDK. I am not saying we should tell Him how to run His business, but on the other hand........we seem to have certain expectations as proof of His love, forgiveness, and such.
I would like to hear your comments on this. In the meantime, I will give you what I believe. (Which certainly doesn't mean i think you should believe it since I do, but I like sharing this topic, so indulge me please.). I believe He forgives us based on His divine character, and not on how hard we work at being forgiven. I believe it is an act of faith, based on His promise in I Jn. 1:9. Our part is to confess it, and His part is forgiving, and the faith is believing He did what He said He would do.
I think if we believe (accept) it, then the feelings of peace, comfort, etc. can follow. But if we doubt......b/c certain things we had hoped for doesn't come about........we are really defeating ourselves and being our own worst enemy.
Just as God would forgive that young pregnant girl and love her throughout the whole nine months........she would still have the baby. It doesn't mean she wasn't forgiven. It doesn't mean God is punishing her. He is the only one who can take our faults and turn into something good...if we keep trusting Him.
We stand in the way of our own happiness.........and our doubt and hanging on to how we wanted God to work things for us....can prevent blessings coming our way. For all you know there is the greatest love of your life just waiting for you to give all of this stuff you are carrying aroind to God so you can begin to move her direction. But it can't happen b/c you won't lay it down.
Look, from day one I have told you to detach, stop contacting & sending her pictures, stop being available all the time, etc. And, since day one you have fought it tooth and nail. Even when others would tell you the same thing, you fought it and came back with the same talk as you are basically doing now. You never DETACHED! You were always AVAILABLE to her. And your reasoning was you feared she would believe you had not truly changed. After you really did change, you continued to hold on to that fear of what she would think about you. Even when you are told how a WAW needs to SUFFER some type of LOSS, you seem to turn it back to feeling you must show her goodness and kindness. But you admit you don't know if it is your own thinking or from above. You are asking 25yrs what goodness looks like.......(or something to that effect.). Why can't you just try dropping the rope, or even just the LRT? I mean, what can you lose?
You have been one of my favorite people here ever since you first came. But sometimes, Crimson, I want to turn you over my apron (as my grandmother use to say).......but I suppose I will give a hug instead. ((Crimson)). But seriously, this entire self destruction and torment since you have heard about OM is b/c you did not go through those BASIC DBing steps. You improved yourself as a man and a father, yes! But unless I have forgotten something (which entirely possible) the only thing I remember you doing that is recommended, is you did go out for a while. But I haven't heard about that in a really long time. But you never dropped your XW. You thought you would simply DIE if the D went through. But it did, and I had hoped you would finally start taking those DBing steps. You kept doing the same thing you are doing now. If there was ever a time you should have stepped back and let her wing it without you......but nothing changed. Then she moves back home for a very brief time and does it to you all over again. What did you do? Certainly not the basic DB steps in detaching, being unavailable, etc. So is there any wonder why you feel devasted again?
I just have to wonder how much of that fear she would not believe your changes were lasting......is really Crimson's excuse for not applying the LRT? I ask you again. What more could you lose? Plus, if there is ever going to be a time.......this it it, Crimson! I will tell you what you stand to lose. Your very last chance to apply it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I keep thinking to myself that I need to send an email saying that we need to sever all ties/contact and go our separate ways -- connecting if and ONLY if something is vital to the health and well-being of our S. In doing so I won't get anymore requests for extra time, or requests for pictures, or requests for updates on him.....none of that.
But then I think deeper and as satisfying as that may sound, it doesn't feel "right" with my heart. Yet, part of me does not want to be part of her life....there when she needs something....still enjoying life with OM and our S together....that imagery is PAINFUL. I feel as though kindness from me towards her will be taken as me being "OK" with everything and glad that she has a BF and that he is with my son.....I don't want kindness to be read as an endorsement. I feel like saying "I'm angry and I want you to know it!". Childish, maybe....but it's what is in my head at the moment.
