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How about something like

"H, I certainly understand the fatigue factor and I certainly understand the hassle factors involved in getting kids up and ready for the day, then going to work and then coming home, and still having to raise our kids. And I definitely know how hard it is do alone...so let's see what we can work out so we both are better able to manage our time and division of labor. Should we hire an additional someone to assist us?"

PROBLEM SOLVE WITH HIM AS AN EQUAL. Seek out his advice to resolve this.

This demonstrates conflict resolution in a way that you both probably have not done in some time. And it shows change in you.

Make sense?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Validation means that you validate how he "feels" not how he "acts". Understand and sympathize that he has a right to feel the way he does even though you don't agree with the actions that he's doing.


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Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
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claire7 Offline OP
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25yearsmlc: I think I get what you are saying. We all have to adjust to this new situation, and I can either judge him/shame him/throw it in his face, or be someone only a fool would walk away from and handle it in a mature, collaborative way. This is my new reality, and I can't change this reality overnight, so I have to handle it as the best "me" possible.

There is definitely a part of me that worries that this fuels his vision of "won't it be so wonderful to be divorced from her. See, she'll be a great co-parent with me. This is definitely the right call.". In many ways I think he is seeing what life after divorce is like-- and he doesn't seem to love it-- so when I am fine with picking up the slack and saving him from the hard parts, I worry a bit that it reassures him that it won't be so bad after all.

Oh boy. Just when I think I was making such great progress. Sigh!

Ok-- I think I figured out my takeaways: VALIDATE how he feels-- he feels how he feels, and he has a right to feel that way. And I don't have to be a doormat and roll over to every request. I can assert myself ("How can we problem-solve this together, in a way that feels equitable and reasonable for both of us?") without being nasty.

THANK YOU!


Me 38 H 40
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Originally Posted By: claire7
25yearsmlc: I think I get what you are saying. We all have to adjust to this new situation, and I can either judge him/shame him/throw it in his face, or be someone only a fool would walk away from and handle it in a mature, collaborative way. This is my new reality, and I can't change this reality overnight, so I have to handle it as the best "me" possible.

There is definitely a part of me that worries that this fuels his vision of "won't it be so wonderful to be divorced from her. See, she'll be a great co-parent with me. This is definitely the right call.". In many ways I think he is seeing what life after divorce is like-- and he doesn't seem to love it-- so when I am fine with picking up the slack and saving him from the hard parts, I worry a bit that it reassures him that it won't be so bad after all.

we all told ourselves things like this^^ b/c we FEEL bad and we hate acting. We think it 'enables" them to leave us guilt free (as if guilt is a loving goal).

But the thing is, your choice is to be miserable in front of him (super fun to be around...NOT) or to guilt him and say "how do you think I FEEL???" which also won't work. OR

you can be pleasant enough (not silly and guffawing in laughter, but HANDLING things) and capable enough that someone can relax around you without fearing your 'needs' will overwhelm them, (and you build on that ability for him to relax around you)

OR you can constantly show your pain.

Given your history of depression in the past, for which you did not take responsibility til recently, to me, that "handling it" capability, is what I'd emphasize.

Not your "continued symptoms of melancholy" EVEN THOUGH you are saying "but wait, I have the RIGHT to feel bad now!!"

We know.

I'm just saying is, how will showing him more negative emotions on your end, help you? I don't believe it will, at all.

AND IF a divorce were really "all fine", with him, that would amaze me. HE won't believe it and already he doesn't believe that. You have seen HIM showing you that it hurts HIM to do this. That confusion on his end IMO is b/c you are confusing him by not falling apart. He's seeing strength in YOU. That is attractive!

Seeing you functioning, is good. It's NOT going to make him think he did the right thing but rather it will give him second thoughts. But Seeing you mope around miserably and blaming him, would make him want to flee.

Choose which you want to model for him; a woman who got her sh!t together, or a woman who fell apart after being on the brink of it, for some time....

Oh boy. Just when I think I was making such great progress. Sigh!

YOU ARE MAKING PROGRESS~!!!


Ok-- I think I figured out my takeaways: VALIDATE how he feels-- he feels how he feels, and he has a right to feel that way.

Ever see a kid cry and hear an adult tell them "you should not cry about that"...? It almost always fails to sway the child. The child FEELS like crying and so he does.

No one telling him he "Should not feel that way" ever helps. Instead we say, "your feelings are hurt/you feel scared" and then we comfort them. All we do as adults when we want to validate IF WE DO NOT AGREE with their take on things is listen to what they say and not argue it. If they revise the marital history too much, you are allowed to say "I don't recall it that way at all, but I"m sorry you were hurt. If I had it to do all over again, there are many things I'd do differently"...

and you can say something similar when he mentions something you DO feel bad about, like "I am sorry that hurt you and if I had it to do over again, that's one of many things I'd do differently"....

both answers show your willingness to change, neither escalates or defends and you are not being a doormat in either scenario.

And I don't have to be a doormat and roll over to every request. I can assert myself ("How can we problem-solve this together, in a way that feels equitable and reasonable for both of us?") without being nasty.

THANK YOU!


Among the biggest problems in marriages today, in MY opinion, is the inability to resolve conflict without someone feeling that they "gave in/LOST" the round. Or won.

Which is why I detest the "Scorekeeping" done by so many. It never helps a marriage.

Problem solving is what teams and colleagues at work do all the time. Strange that it gets so hard to do in our own families.

I think you're doing very well and there is hope. And regardless, YOU are becoming a woman only a fool would leave and that matters A LOT.

You have children watching you and someday when life throws them a big curve ball, they'll recall YOU


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,428
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claire7 Offline OP
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You are so so so right.

I told him, shortly before he left (things were pretty bad between us at that point) that I had reached my rock bottom in terms of my emotional well-being and I recognized that I couldn't go on living that way any longer. That's when I finally took action to make changes for myself. It was too late for him. But once I started feeling better, a couple of weeks after he left, I told him that I would never go back to that dark place. And I mean that 100%. To me, getting healthy and getting out of the negative space I was in is a life or death proposition. I could not go on living the way I was. He didn't believe the changes would last and told me so. But there is no going back for me.

For a long time, my neediness made him feel like he was contributing much more to the relationship than I was--and he told me so. And maybe that was true, even though I did contribute in important ways. He just couldn't notice it because he didn't feel loved and supported enough. (And his not noticing made me feel unloved and unsupported. Ack, what a horrible dynamic we had!)

Now that I am so much stronger, maybe he will be more able to see the ways that I contribute to the relationship, and that we can have a more equal partnership.

And if he can't, my next partner surely will.

I am so grateful for this forum. It's given me tremendous perspective and confidence.


Me 38 H 40
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T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

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Hi Claire - Your feeling sound like mine in soooo many ways - I too struggle with alot of the same thoughts as you - will H think this is great! Look how easy D will be. Look how nice she is being, etc.

It nice to know I'm not the only one thinking this way and its also nice to see some the the reponses above to help move past these thoughts.

25yearsmlc - you are so right. Great perspective! So right!


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Yep I wonder the same girls, I wonder if by me being so AWSOME (lol!) and so understanding, caring etc won't that just confirm to him that things are better this way & that we're better off apart?!

I know these changes are for ME anyway but it is something that's always in the back of my mind... Any input on this from our experienced DB'ers here?


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Not if you stay the same understanding, caring person you are now when/if he returns. If my W were understanding and caring, wow, that would be a big plus to attract me...

Luke


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Add me to having the same thoughts. I'm pretty NC but I'm always accomidating and very polite. So weird! I too wonder if I'm making. This just a little too easy.


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claire7 Offline OP
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Luke-- what I worry my H is thinking is something like, "we care about each other, we can be nice and friendly, we maybe even feel love for each other...but we just don't work as a married couple. And the fact that she is doing so great on her own confirms that to me. We are all (including our D) better off apart. And now I don't have to feel so much guilt about it because she is so happy and capable without me."

And I know that being miserable and needy certainly isn't going to win him back. But damn this is frustrating. The changes are for ME. I KNOW. But sometimes I want to bop him on the head and tell him what an idiot he is.

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Me 38 H 40
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T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

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