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gogofo #2446648 04/18/14 06:23 AM
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We had our evening and things went okay. Had a ton of fun with the kids dying Easter eggs, W cooked us dinner and we ended up talking from about two hours.

I would say it was a positive talk, maybe another small step towards piecing. I will give more details in the morning but the big thing is she asked if I thought we were fixable. I just got honest and said yes, she said she wasn't sure. She doesn't know how she feels. She is not feeling like D but is also not feeling like reconnecting. She likes me, or as she put it "I must not hate you because I enjoy being around you". We laughed about it later and her choice of words. I could see her thinking about us and she would shake her head and say "I don't know". I finally told her after a couple of times that I understand how she could feel that way, but I was not asking for an answer.

Another bit of information that came out was that she had called a L and made an appointment but later cancelled. She said she just was not sure that is what she wanted.

I think I may slowly expand the text message contact at night to include questions about her and how she is doing. See if there is cheese down that hole.

Her family's Easter day was shot to help so I don't think she has plans. I thought about inviting her over to my parents to eat with the family but I am unsure if this is appropriate. It just doesn't feel right. I think my grandparents would get over excited and have expectations and I don't know how the W would feel.

Now to sleep...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
gogofo #2446652 04/18/14 07:45 AM
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I'm wishing you all the luck in the world. Seems like you're doing it right.


Me 38
Her 38
Daughter 7
Married 11 Together 16
BD 3/21/14
Moved out 3/8/15
D final 3/11/15
VFL #2446793 04/18/14 08:24 PM
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Here is yesterday in a nutshell, a big one.

W called at 4:45 and asked if and wanted to accompany family to grocery store, I accepted and she stopped in and picked me up. We romped around grocery store for an hour and headed out to her house.

An the way there out of the blue our oldest says "Daddy you can stay at our house in mommy's bed, she has two pillows!" We both paused for a second, looked forward, and then chuckled. I thought he had a good idea though. wink

W feeds kids, cooks our dinner, and then we proceed to the egg dying. This whole time I do not have a vehicle or a ride home without her taking me. I romp on the floor and wrestle with the kids for a while and sit wondering if my oldest was psychic. Finally around 8:45 we all load up and go to my house. Put the kids down and then I wait to see if she will start the conversation.

We small talk a little and then I just stop and look at her. I can see her wrestling with thoughts in her head and she keeps asking "what"? I finally ask, to give her some encouragement, what she wanted to chit chat about.

She started off with how she felt when she left. She said she felt like she was going to die if she didn't leave. I asked how long she felt these things and she said in September for sure and them brought up three other instances from the past.

Two of the arguments we got into were about rocking chairs for the babies rooms. I was opinionated and dumb about the whole process. The chairs were for her and her comfort, but I was an idiot about it and made her feel disrespected and unimportant. I should have let her have any chair she wanted, in retrospect I was such an idiot about it and unable to look at how she felt about the situation.

The other feelings she has of mistrust or feeling unimportant were about my decision to get a vasectomy. Before we even married we were pretty much in agreement about having two children. The first child was spearheaded by her. She brought up the idea and I agreed to go with it. After the first, the roles reversed and I spearheaded the decision about the second child. The second had a more difficult attitude than the first and in the first couple of months after his birth she said I should go get a vasectomy. I did not take this as venting and waited and scheduled the procedure to happen around Thanksgiving. I mentioned this to her and she was upset and said she was not ready and wanted to wait a year. I cancelled the appointment. During the next year we never really had much of a discussion about having more kids. She later told me that she talked to the councilor at her school about the issue. We both were at fault about not bringing up a serious heart to heart discussion about children. I later had the procedure, which I thought (assumed) I had her blessing on. She did get some pleasure out of this though because I had to have the procedure TWICE. I was the 4th person in 30 years that had to be redone by this Dr. On top of that, each time I was unable to be properly numbed in certain areas and I felt more than I should have, like cutting and snipping.

The vasectomy issue will be big and will never be forgotten by her. She said she was not even sure that she wanted another child, but the fact that I got the procedure made her feel unvalued and like she had no say in what happens with us.

The talks went into whether I thought we were fixable. I told her yes and she said she does not know. I wrote about this above.

What she has expressed is that she is stuck basically in the middle; nothing pulling her towards D and nothing pulling her towards reconciliation.

We talked about the kids being the most important part of this. She said she did her research and everything shows that staying together is the best for the kids. Then soon after that she looked at me and said "but I will not be in this marriage just for the kids." My interpretation of this is that I cannot just let the kids bring us back, I need to do my work.

My feeling is that she is leaning more towards us, but not much, for the simple fact that she says she likes me. I think she is scared to start reconciliation because she is scared of getting hurt again. I am scared to get hurt too, but I use this fear as motivation towards making personal growth advances and never to be back to where we were.

She talked about asking friends and family if she overreacted. They, or most of them, said that she did overreact. I said that I did not think so, those feelings she had were real and those people were not in her position nor did they have her feelings. I know she didn't come to her decision quickly, even if it was made in a highly emotional state.

During the talk we went back an forth between R talks and jokes and talking about what we have been doing at work, etc.

She also asked me what would be different in our relationship. I started talking about how I felt different and she stopped me and wanted specifics. Oh Boy! Pop quiz hot shot. So I talked about how things that mattered to me don't as much. I talked about wanting date nights, and alone time for us. I talked about being empathetic to her and respecting her opinion and wanting to listen to her and how she felt. She said she really feels that I don't know or like her, this being a result of my actions making her feel not respected. I was weird being put on the spot with her wanting examples about how things will be different. There were more things I would have wanted to say that I remembered later, but that is okay it is not life or death.

During the time together I was acting "as if" we were a happy couple again, except for physical touch. When we were talking she was a little cold so I turned up the heat and wrapped her in a quilt. Got her a glass of water when I got one. Gave her the tissue box when she got weepy. It is still a little weird being what I call an 80% spouse.

She grabbed a jacket out of the closet and got in her car and then turned back around. I jokingly thought to myself "here she comes for her hug, HA!" I knew she wasn't, but I laughed. She was cold and wanted a heavier jacket so I told her to sit down and let the car warm up and covered her back up with the quilt. We talked a little more about being cold because we both have lost a good amount of weight. I talked about being thinner and in better shape than ever and when she looked at me I gave her the ol' eyebrow lift (to be silly). She said I was a dork and I said "I was a dork when you fell in love with me and I figured it might heat her up a little bit." She chuckled and left.

No hugs or physical touch except me helping her up by the hand off the couch. But we did sit next to each other on the couch and it was the closest we have sat when being casual.

All in all another small step forward for us.


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
gogofo #2446797 04/18/14 08:35 PM
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Here is where I think I go from here.

Open up communication more than one text asking about the kids at night. I will start asking about her. If the cheese is there I may start to call.

I will be bringing it better and better every time we are around each other. Being conscience of every change I want to make with me.

Keep up with my GAL and my 180s. Keep up with watching my weight and exercise to I look oh so pretty. She said it made her mad that I looked good and have been taking care of myself. She said it still hurts a little when she sees me looking good and with new clothes. At that moment I wanted to jump up and start a fashion show for her with all the new clothes she has not seen wearing. wink

So is this piecing, pre-piecing, or the same situation?
To me it feels like we may be on the cusp of piecing. If she opens up to want to work on us with dates, etc, I will know we are piecing.


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
gogofo #2446799 04/18/14 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 594
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I also invited her to the little egg hunt I am going to do for the kids at the house on Sunday morning. I did this before the talk and she accepted.

She offered the kids the whole day or at least through dinner because she said that her family was not doing anything. Her brother and SIL are fighting with her parents and the W and I are in our sitch, so her parents called off their dinner and said they are going fishing instead.

I mentioned it above, but I am not sure if I should extend an invitation to join my family or not. I would enjoy her there, but that is because I still love her. I do not know how the rest of the family would take it. I know they would be happy, but there would still be an awkwardness about it.

The only people she has saw since BD are my aunt, they work at the same place, and my mom who she saw at the grocery store last weekend.

I think it would feel quite pushy or forced for her to be there but I do know she misses my family.

I also do not feel it is my responsibility to help her with seeing or visiting with my family. If we were both active and working towards us I would be open to it, but right now it feels awkward.

Does a WAW flat out say they are ready to work on the R or do I need to show her what it would be like before she says she is ready?


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
gogofo #2446804 04/18/14 09:16 PM
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Posts: 7,319
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GoFo,

It all sounds positive in many aspects. Yes, it is tough having R talks and trying to navigate through this emotional minefield. Overall, you've held your own pretty darn good!

Two of the arguments we got into were about rocking chairs for the babies rooms. I was opinionated and dumb about the whole process. The chairs were for her and her comfort, but I was an idiot about it and made her feel disrespected and unimportant. I should have let her have any chair she wanted, in retrospect I was such an idiot about it and unable to look at how she felt about the situation.

In retrospect, it is a silly argument. Couples do argue over silly and small things sometimes. What I am hearing W saying here is that she does not feel like she is an equal partner in this process. For future instances, you would want to ask her thoughts and opinion on some joint purchases or decisions that have impact on you two or the whole family. I hope you are open to apologizing for this and telling W that you would be more mindful of this type of thing. THEN BACK THIS UP WITH CONSISTENT ACTIONS.

I did not take this as venting and waited and scheduled the procedure to happen around Thanksgiving. I mentioned this to her and she was upset and said she was not ready and wanted to wait a year. I cancelled the appointment. During the next year we never really had much of a discussion about having more kids. She later told me that she talked to the councilor at her school about the issue. We both were at fault about not bringing up a serious heart to heart discussion about children. I later had the procedure, which I thought (assumed) I had her blessing on.

I want to ask YOU this: Why did you feel that you had to have a vasectomy? What was the urgency from your POV? I mean it is not due to health reasons like heart surgery or some other critical surgical procedure. Having a vasectomy is an elective surgery. Think on this one carefully.

We talked about the kids being the most important part of this. She said she did her research and everything shows that staying together is the best for the kids. Then soon after that she looked at me and said "but I will not be in this marriage just for the kids." My interpretation of this is that I cannot just let the kids bring us back, I need to do my work.

Then become the best spouse that she would be a fool to leave.
One way to address this is to try to include W more in decisions and choices that you are weighing on various matters such as child care, school, hobbies, work, purchases, etc. Saying "what do you think" would do wonders for W and your marriage.

She said she really feels that I don't know or like her, this being a result of my actions making her feel not respected.

Pay ATTENTION to this gem from W. What are you going to do going forward to address this particular concern for W?

Now that you've had this long R discussion, I am seeing that you are wanting to prolong this by extending more invitations to W. I'd say..."slow down" and pace those invitations. You would not want to inundate her with a gazillion invitations and smother her. Make her miss you a bit.

I want to say this as gently as possible with the goal of making you aware: this is not piecing or R. Your W isn't clear in either direction. Just leave her be to allow her time and space to process this talk.

Good job! smile

Wonka #2446854 04/18/14 11:46 PM
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I felt like I needed to have the vasectomy because I was scared of having another baby by accident. I let fear and feelings of inadequacy overcome me and I no longer trusted birth control. I was flat out scared.

When our first child was born my W was in active labor for 14 hours. The child had to be assisted in birth with the head forceps and pulled out. At the end of it she almost needed a blood transfusion. I was terrified by the time it was all over.

With the second child the W was in stage one labor for a week. She broke out with a rash on her face and hands which could have been a sign of fetal issues and liver issues with the mom. We did not have access to a doctor to check the rash and the OBGYN had no idea what it was.

Neither was a smooth pregnancy and the first birth would have taken my W or son or both had it not been for modern medicine.

These two things coupled with the very difficult second child had me terrified of having another. I did not even feel comfortable trusting birth control. I know all these reasons are selfish but this is how I felt at that time.


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
Wonka #2446858 04/19/14 12:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 594
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Originally Posted By: Wonka

Then become the best spouse that she would be a fool to leave.
One way to address this is to try to include W more in decisions and choices that you are weighing on various matters such as child care, school, hobbies, work, purchases, etc. Saying "what do you think" would do wonders for W and your marriage.

She said she really feels that I don't know or like her, this being a result of my actions making her feel not respected.

Pay ATTENTION to this gem from W. What are you going to do going forward to address this particular concern for W?

Now that you've had this long R discussion, I am seeing that you are wanting to prolong this by extending more invitations to W. I'd say..."slow down" and pace those invitations. You would not want to inundate her with a gazillion invitations and smother her. Make her miss you a bit.

I want to say this as gently as possible with the goal of making you aware: this is not piecing or R. Your W isn't clear in either direction. Just leave her be to allow her time and space to process this talk.

Good job! smile



I will have to work in asking her input about things without seeming like I am in pursuit.

About W feeling like I don't know her, I am going to be studying her and trying to notice details that would have failed me before. I will be listening with my heart and even jotting down notes about her. I am also going to continue to be fully supportive of her and what she is doing or wants to do.

I also need to review one of the books I read that had tips for paying attention and knowing your spouse.

I understand that we are not piecing, I realized this after thinking about where we are with each other. I can give her the space and time she needs and not overwhelm her with invitations. We are going to have dinner again this coming Thursday. I do not think I will invite her to Easter dinner, she can miss me.

I am good at giving her time and space, have been this whole time. Easter morning is the first time I have invited her to anything since starting DBing.


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
gogofo #2446898 04/19/14 08:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
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Hey Gogofo, what is the book you read on rebuilding trust?


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2446910 04/19/14 01:43 PM
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"I love you but I don't trust you" by Mira Kirshenbaum

It is more for the person who has lost trust, but I found it very insightful.


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
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