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unbidden #2445376 04/13/14 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: unbidden
You are still too focused on her.
You know...I was all set to deny that, and then I realized that that would be like an alcoholic denying he has a drinking problem when someone suggests it to him... So, while I can't quite deny it, I will say that the extent to which I'm focused on her might be at least slightly less than it seems since a lot of what I'm doing here is venting/journaling. At the very least, I'm reasonably confident that W doesn't see it...I can say with pretty high certainty that what's in my head stays in my head... Still, I see and appreciate your point. What's in my head is still something I need to work on.

That having been said, I would appreciate feedback from anyone on a particular 180/GAL... W has always complained that I've neglected my friendships and "don't have any friends anymore". Which isn't 100% true, but true enough. My closest friends don't live near by anymore... but I certainly could have made some trips to visit them. To my credit I do keep in touch with them online, but I know that's not the same thing. So from my W's perspective my life is just work, the kids, and her.

So I've been getting in touch with some friends that I haven't seen in forever, and actually went out to dinner with one of them last night while W was at a concert with one of her girlfriends. Here's the thing though... the friend I went out with is female. I've known her for close to 20 years and it's totally 100% platonic, and W knows this...but I wonder if there might be some unintended consequences of this. I know GAL is for me, but 180's/GAL are also supposed to draw the WAW back in, so I don't necessarily want to do anything that is going to push W further away either.

W knows I went out with old female friend (OFF) and one OFF's girlfriends last night, and she knows I have plans to meet them again for lunch today while W is at work. When I mentioned to W that I was meeting up with them again she jokingly said "boy you sure can't get enough of OFF can you?", and then followed that by saying she was just kidding and it didn't bother her. I am wondering though... W can be 1) very jealous, and 2) is what most people would describe as quite attractive, and 3) regularly has other men hit on her. It's never bothered me though...and I've never tried to control W or anything like that. She however has always been very quick to get a little rankled when another woman pays me some kind of attention... I could almost see W thinking "well if stumps is going to go out with OFF, then I'm going to go out with one of the many people who hit on me".

I just want to tread lightly here. When I'm GALing, should I be careful in what I chose to do? Or should I simply do whatever works for me. Like I said, I know the focus is on me...but I also am trying to achieve two goals here. Becoming a better me, and becoming attractive to my W again.

Two small positives I'm noting for myself: 1) W continues to wear wedding ring when she goes out and I noticed she put it on today before leaving for work (she takes it off at night because her fingers swell). 2) I never initiate physical contact with her, but she has been continuing to hug me before she leaves for work, which I thought maybe she's been doing for appearances for the kids, but she made a point of coming and giving me a hug before leaving for work today even though the kids are at the in-laws. Not letting it get my hopes up by any means...but I guess it's better than nothing.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
stumps #2445766 04/15/14 12:56 AM
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Had a great day with W and kids today. First day of Spring Break so we took the kids to lunch and then later on went to my in-laws' house for dinner. In between, W asked me to come hang out on the patio with her for a little while, so I did. I could tell she wanted to talk to me about something, and we ended up having an R talk.

W said she noticed all of the changes I had made, and acknowledged how good things have been between us since she dropped the bomb. Apparently, this is making her think that I don't take her decision about the D seriously, or that I think she's changed her mind. She wanted to make it clear that she hasn't changed her mind about anything, and she says she keeps waiting for things to turn sour and for me to start getting angry and hating her.

For the most part I just listened to what she had to say, and I validated everything. I told her that I was under no impression that she had changed her mind about anything, and that as far as I was concerned she meant what she had told me about wanting to divorce and my assumption was that was still where we were headed. She then asked me why I was being such a "good person" if I really believed that we were splitting up. I'm not sure if this was the right response or not, but I told her that basically I felt like a person in my position has choices to make... become a better person for the sake of becoming a better person, do nothing and therefore lose an opportunity to grow and change for the better, or worst of all, become bitter and angry and thereby increase the suffering of everyone involved. I told her I was consciously choosing to do what I can to become a better person for my own sake and for the sake of my children, and that that has nothing to do with not believing that she's serious about divorcing.

She told me she thought that my response was pretty rare, and pretty amazing, because she doesn't think that most people would respond that way. She reiterated, however, that she still wants to divorce. However, now she's saying it's because she thinks she has some personal growth that she needs to accomplish and her life needs to go in a different direction, and she believes that can't happen if she stays married.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
stumps #2445849 04/15/14 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: stumps
However, now she's saying it's because she thinks she has some personal growth that she needs to accomplish and her life needs to go in a different direction, and she believes that can't happen if she stays married.


I know I'm not supposed to be focusing on my W, but this has stuck with me ever since she said it...more so than anything else she's said. Mainly because it's the only thing she's said that hasn't made some kind ofsense to me... What does it even mean? Is this just something that some WAWs say? Is it part of a typical script?

Do I ask for clarification of what exact "personal growth" and "different direction" she's talking about (yeah, pretty sure I know what DBing says about asking those questions). I didn't say anything when she said it to me last night, I just validated her feelings... But it has been turning over in my mind. Her list of complaints, my flaws and the various ways I've fallen short in the marriage, those all make sense to me. But the personal growth/different direction stuff is just a real WTF for me. Especially because I addressed some similar type issues in my IC earlier in our marriage, and my therapist always had the perspective that 99.9% of the time there is no growth that can happen outside of the marriage that can't also happen within it.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
stumps #2445852 04/15/14 02:27 PM
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W did identify one of the main sources of her unhappiness. She said she never felt like I was proud to be seen with her. Which is crazy in a way because I think my wife is beautiful (and for better or worse so do a lot of other people), and I have always loved that a good looking magnetic charismatic person like her was my "better half" and that people knew it when were out together. I guess the problem was that I didn't arrange those outings with her enough myself. Very infrequently. I have been very neglectful in that regard. No denying that. I think in my mind I was trying not to smother her or make her feel like I thought I owned her...

So, I know that if we were to start piecing I would need to take her out once a week and make all the arrangements myself. That's what she needs to feel special.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
stumps #2446110 04/16/14 04:18 PM
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Some positive movement (I think) on my W's part.

Part of doing 180's for me has been to immediately acknowledge W's feelings when she points out something I've done that she doesn't like or hurts her, instead of saying "yeah but..." or pointing my finger back at her in defense. So when she told me how often she felt like I didn't like going out with/being seen with her...how much she felt like I wasn't proud to be with her, I validated her feelings right away, telling her that I completely understood why she would feel that way--that anyone in her position would feel the same way in response to my behavior. I took a calculated risk and said a little more, explaining how I truly feel about her and noting that the tragedy here was that my behavior had often made her feel the exact opposite.

I was already in bed when W got home from work, and for the first time in the past couple of weeks she got in next to me and curled up in my arms and told me that off and on all day she had been thinking about what I said and how good it made her feel. We ended up staying up for another hour or so, just talking about stuff (non-R stuff), and at one point she grabbed one of her journals and start reading me some of her creative writing. She said she just felt like sharing part of herself with me, part of herself that she had never shared and didn't feel comfortable sharing with anyone else. It felt like a really nice, special moment.

At one point W mentioned meeting up with her yoga mentor for some appetizers tomorrow evening, and without really thinking about it I suggested that once they were done catching up I could meet up with them afterward and she said that she would really like that (making that suggestion is actually a 180 for me, even though it's one that looks like pursuit). We ended up falling asleep with her head on my shoulders and her arms wrapped around mine, which used to be a nightly occurrence but hasn't been happening for the past couple of weeks.

So...seems like these are positive signs...I hope, but not going to get my hopes up. No "I love you" as she went out the door for work today, but got an earnest hug which was nice. I'm just going to live as if her mind is still made up about moving out/D, and continue to focus on my 180's and GAL. Have two GAL activities lining up: Looked into taking drum lessons yesterday, and have a concert coming up in a week or so. I bought two tickets figuring I would get someone to go with me and even if I can't find someone I'll just go by myself.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
stumps #2446363 04/17/14 02:52 PM
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Continuing to see some positive signs; must continue to remind myself not to take them for more than they're worth...

W came home from work and snuggled up with me on the couch, gave me a kiss on the lips when she got up to fix something to eat, and then asked if I wanted to hang out with her by the firepit when it got dark out. Had a really good time doing that with her, and she remarked several times what a wonderful evening she was having. In-laws stopped by for a bit so we had a nice visit with them, and a little later one of W's friends who lives across the street came over and hung out. This made W extremely happy and gave me a 180 opportunity because I'v ways been a bit stand-offish with the neighbors but this time I was very welcoming and we ended up having a great time.

I think it's worth noting that W mentioned to me that one of her friends told her that despite "everything that's going on" I seem happier recently than I have in a long time. FIL also pulled me aside at one point and said that he and MIL have been quietly watching what's going on and that they're extremely proud of how I'm handling everything and that they hope W will change course. "We're your biggest fans" is one of the things he said to me... Made me feel really good about myself.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
stumps #2446366 04/17/14 03:00 PM
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I think it's worth noting that W mentioned to me that one of her friends told her that despite "everything that's going on" I seem happier recently than I have in a long time. FIL also pulled me aside at one point and said that he and MIL have been quietly watching what's going on and that they're extremely proud of how I'm handling everything and that they hope W will change course. "We're your biggest fans" is one of the things he said to me... Made me feel really good about myself.

This made me cry, very nice to hear that!


When the student its ready, the teacher will appear...
Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me."
Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
ye21 #2446407 04/17/14 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: ye21


This made me cry, very nice to hear that!


Thanks! Yes, I couldn't have asked for feedback better than that, and that it was unsolicited really made it all the better.

I know I have to tread cautiously though... Even as W sems to soften and move closer to me, I am expecting another big pull-back from her at some point. I will just try to stay as consistent as possible and stick to my changes. I am noticing the positive effects they are bringing about in my life, not just in my R with my W. I know that if I can keep this up, and W chooses to leave any way, I will have become a better person anyway (albeit a work in progress) and I will be able to hold my head up high.

Just going to take things one day at a time.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
stumps #2446517 04/17/14 08:34 PM
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LOL! Well, that sure didn't take long... Close and warm has already given way to cold and distant. That's ok, I know the drill. Just staying cool, calm, and consistent. To paraphrase a wiser soul on this forum: W happy, Stumps happy. W angry, Stumps happy. W reclusive, Stumps happy. Etc etc etc. Just going to keep doing what I know is right, and what I need to do to become a better stronger happier healthier person.

The kids have finally started verbalizing that they've noticed something is up with their mom. S10 mentioned that it seems like I'm doing all the housework, cooking, laundry, etc lately, and that she was going out a lot more often with her friends and wasn't home that often to put him and his sister to bed. I wasn't sure what to say, so I just told him that I thought W has been feeling a little blue lately and that I didn't mind pucking up the slack around the house for a while because that's what you do when you care about someone. Hope that was the right thing to say...

At the end of the day, I know I'm a work in progress, but I am becoming a person that only a fool would leave...


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
stumps #2447049 04/20/14 02:47 PM
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Posts: 209
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Well, if there's one thing I can say for sure...I'm finally really understanding the "rollercoaster" analogy. W is all over the place emotionally, while I try to remain centered at all times. I am learning to become my own rock...and doing a pretty decent job if I may be so bold.

It's interesting to see the ebb and flow of W's behavior and the way she responds to and acts toward me. One minute she'll be pulling me toward her, wrapping her arms around me and loving me up, and then the winds will change and she will be distant and removed. I am trying to respond "appropriately" in all situations, which means (I hope) being loving toward her when she expresses it toward me, and giving her space during the times when she pulls back.

I see the back and forth in her behavior as a good thing...certainly it's better than if there were no positive displays of emotion/behavior from her at all. We had a good day together yesterday. Went clothes shopping together and ended up in a "couples" dressing room because the store was so busy, which allowed for some playful moments between us. W texted from work later that night to say she couldn't wait to get home, and later on in bed she remarked how much she had enjoyed shopping with me. I made Easter baskets for the kids last night and put together a small one for W as well, and actually got a kiss on the lips for that one...That's one of the things I miss most in this situation...not the sex per se (although I *do* miss that), but the physical affection, the smaller displays...kissing, hand-holding. Right up until the bomb drop we would hold hands in bed while falling asleep. I miss that a ton. But...c'est la vie...

So all in all, I'll certainly take a mix of good and bad over having things be all bad. As long as I focus on myself and what I need to be doing I will ultimately be ok, no matter what tough times may be ahead.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
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