Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 6 of 11 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 10 11
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
U
Upwards Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
U
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
Hi Sandi, thank you so much for your input - I want the truth so thanks for that. I've tried to answer as much as I can below.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
I am going to tell you what I have seen work the best, okay? You completely drop him. I know, you told him you've set him free, etc. But you really have not dropped him. B/c when you drop a man, you have NOTHING to do with him. plus, you don't bother to tell him anything. You just do it, and let him figure it out.

Have no contact with him! I saw where you would say you had not had contact with him for a few days......except through emails. But that is contacting! Texting, messaging, voice messages, ect., are still communication.


The emails are work only, he does add personal to me but I never reply and keep it to business - I ignore his texts & calls and eventually he will email or voicemail if urgent. I don't contact him, he always contacts me and I either ignore or call back later. We cant have no contact long term because of the business, its impossible long term which is why we've been using email every few days to liase and even that cant go on much longer as I need to be at work to carry out some tasks.

Quote:
By dropping him, you will discover how dependent on him you were. Learn to take care of you and the kids independent of him. He still should financially support his kids, but I mean in the day to day care of them, when he isn't scheduled to be with them. For example, when your son was feeling poorly. Why did your H have to be there at the house? Could you not take the child to the doctor by yourself?

I rely on my H for nothing anymore, I do not have any help from him except for the days when its arranged that he has the kids in his care. Other than that I do everything myself & have for the best part of 8 months whilst he was in rehab etc. I used to rely on him heavily but after kicking him out I didnt have a choice but to do it all myself (he was in the gutter!) and from that i've grown in so many ways, as a mother and as a person - I am confident in my abilites to bring up my kids on my own and certainly dont NEED him, although I do WANT him around.

My H had to come down a few nights ago because our daughter was in bed asleep, it was 11pm and it would have meant me getting her out of bed and taking both kids to the doctors with me - it just wasn't practical & its only on rare occasions like that where I will ask for his help otherwise I do it on my own and am used to doing that.

I dont feel as though I do rely on him anymore, he's not been around to depend on but maybe i'm wrong.

Quote:
I am not trying to be snarky here, b/c I honestly don't think a LBS sees themselves making excuses to contact the WAS.


I admit I did used to do this up until a few months ago, i'd find an excuse to call him or see him but I dont do that now and make a point of not doing that (even when its really difficult and i'm struggling).

Quote:
This is complete BS! Yes, it is pointless! He told you once before how he told OW he was ending contact out of respect for you. He doesn't respect you. I hope you see it. And furthermore, he won't go a month without some type of contact with OW......b/c he is addicted to the thrill of the A. You can read about how it woks if you google it.

Last time he told me he was cutting contact I was pressuring him, I cornered him & gave him no choice (I regret this now) and he said that he didnt want to just go behind my back and wanted to do it when HE was ready and not because I was telling him to so he's been "processing" it over the past few weeks and spoken to his counsellor etc.

I haven't mentioned it since, he came to me this morning and told me he hes ready to cut contact and will show me the proof I need - when I asked if this was permanent he said "its to see how things go & to allow me to see what I want, I know its the only way forwards for me to see how I really feel".

He's said I can have full access to his phone records, email, facebook and he will block her number so that she cant call him - its exactly what I asked him to do?

When he reduced contact with her right down his actions towards me completely changed and he started to show me respect, saw me as a person with hopes & dreams, showed compassion and actually seemed to care about me and my feelings again - he admitted that his feelings for me were beginning to grow and he admitted that the future for us seemed much more positive. I then cut contact with him because I refused to be in his life whilst the OW was. I was hoping the next few weeks along with his IC and my own work & DB that it might be positive for us - am I wrong?

Quote:
Look like a million bucks, act as if you are on top of the world, and.......act as if you have a little secret that is making you very pleased. You are totally disinterested in him or what he decides to do. You have decided to be happy with your life.

Exactly what i've been doing when we've had contact, I've been "acting as if" i'm happy, enjoying life, not bothered about him or our M, moving forwards without him etc etc.
I'm not sure but my behaviour over the past month has sparked his interest enough to make him assess his own situation and how he needs to move forwards, could be a coincidence and may not, I dont know.

Quote:
If he thinks he can't play you any longer, he will get serious about wanting you back. If he believes he has lost the best thing that ever happened in his life, he will get serious.

Me toughening up and sticking with the NC (I know it wasnt a long period but in our situation its long if that makes sense!) and me showing him that i'm absolutely serious about staying NC for the foreseeable future seems to have given him a kick up the ass, he's actually taken steps to see his counsellor again and deal with his "fears" etc. I know its only small steps but they're certainly steps and before this past few weeks he was just burying his head in the sand.


Quote:
Oh, and for goodness sake.......don't be his friend. That is the same as serving them cake to eat.

So no positive interactions or anything like that? I don't mean like BFF's I just mean "friendly" when dropping/collecting the kids etc.

Quote:
When I say this takes time, I am not talking just a few months. But if you stand a shot at busting a D, this is the way you need to go.

I'm really not sure I can do this for months, its been going on 8 months. I suppose i'll know when i've had enough.


Divorce Final: Oct 2014

Your struggles today, develop strength for tomorrow...
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
So no positive interactions or anything like that? I don't mean like BFF's I just mean "friendly" when dropping/collecting the kids etc.


Just be polite, the same way you would treat a stranger. I know this seems a little overboard, but it all adds up to him realizing the R he lost with you and he doesn't get it back by picking up the kids. I would say to do like this when at work, etc. You don't have to show a angry face or anything. You can smile and speak in a friendly tone. But I wouldn't start joking around or throw compliments, etc. I am not sure how you mean positive interaction. In time, you may be able to be a little more friendly, but as long as he is involved with OW while he's M to you, why would you knock yourself out? Am I making sense? If not, I will try to clarify.

As long as you respond through emails about work only, I suppose that beats talking in person or over the phone.

It sounds like you have improved from where you were. I did spot read your thread, trying to catch up so I could respond to you. So, it is good to hear what you say today.

You said your H was in the gutter when he went to rehab for his drug addiction. In a sense, he has to reach that place with his affair/OW addiction. Sometimes it doesn't have to get to that place, but when it continues as long as your H's has, it may. That is why he has to realize what he's lost and decide if OW is worth it.

Quote:
He's said I can have full access to his phone records, email, facebook and he will block her number so that she cant call him - its exactly what I asked him to do?


Well, I will say this.........where there's will there's a way. KWIM? Pay as you go cell phones, start a new email account, etc. But the red flag I see is him putting a deadline of a month on this supposedly no contact with OW. That just speaks to me that he is not serious enough.

When you say he admitted certain things about his feelings growing, etc. I think of the word "admitted" as an answer given when one is prompted or questioned. To me, it's not quite the same as when it is volunteered information. Were you asking him these things?

I can't stress enough how important it is that he has OW out of his system before your M will be successful. His feelings for you are affected by his addiction to OW. He will have to actually go through a withdrawal period. When the strong craving to contact OW hits him.....that's when his resolve will fizzle........"if" he is going by his feelings. He is giving it a try for a month to see how he "feels". He will either be very confused or mistake his craving for love. He needs to make his decision based on what is the right thing to do, and not just on his feelings. But I don't think you are in a position where you can tell him. I am just trying to explain to you. Plus, if he thinks he is doing exactly what you have asked of him........then he will believe he's done his part. But ending contact is simply the first step.

If it takes time for him to process things in his life, you can certainly hope that some time away from OW is better than no time at all. It just doesn't solve his problem until he decides to permanently end it. And back to the subject of how friendly you should be........since he believes he is doing what you have asked, you can use this time to be more pleasant and friendly towards him. But if he doesn't end things with OW after the month is up, then I would certainly limit my friendliness.

Have you considered selling out your share of the business? If you end up getting D, it could be very uncomfortable.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
U
Upwards Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
U
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Just be polite, the same way you would treat a stranger. I know this seems a little overboard, but it all adds up to him realizing the R he lost with you and he doesn't get it back by picking up the kids. I would say to do like this when at work, etc. You don't have to show a angry face or anything. You can smile and speak in a friendly tone. But I wouldn't start joking around or throw compliments, etc. I am not sure how you mean positive interaction. In time, you may be able to be a little more friendly, but as long as he is involved with OW while he's M to you, why would you knock yourself out? Am I making sense? If not, I will try to clarify.

I plan to stay NC (just email for work) until he cuts contact with OW anyway so wont see him or speak to him really anyway. I was asking about being "friendly" if/when he cuts contact with her.

As long as you respond through emails about work only, I suppose that beats talking in person or over the phone.

Quote:
It sounds like you have improved from where you were. I did spot read your thread, trying to catch up so I could respond to you. So, it is good to hear what you say today.

Massively! It may not come across in my posts as I use this place to vent my anger, upset, insecurities etc but on the whole i'm doing REALLY well. I'm happier than i've been in a long time & although my M is over I'm glad in a big way as it's given me to opportunity to do some work on myself and i've grown so much already from this experience. I'm no longer insecure, scared & feeling worthless - I know my worth now, I know that I deserve to be loved & treated right and my confidence is through the roof after loosing 3 stone smile I'm a new person now, I feel happy with the person that I am and feel like "me" for the first time in a long long time, it feels good!

Quote:
You said your H was in the gutter when he went to rehab for his drug addiction. In a sense, he has to reach that place with his affair/OW addiction. Sometimes it doesn't have to get to that place, but when it continues as long as your H's has, it may. That is why he has to realize what he's lost and decide if OW is worth it.

I dont know for sure but I think this realisation may have begun to set in as he's told me many times that he knows he has no future with OW and that she's just a friend but he knows there may be a future for us somewhere down the line. Since I exposed it things really cooled down & I suppose the excitement began to fade as it wasnt a secret anymore.

He's also begun to show remorse for what he's done recently & apologised etc where as before that he was acting as though he'd done nothing wrong.

The fact that he's restarted his couselling is a BIG step too as they are "no holds barred" and will tear him apart, they arent like your usual nicey nicey cousellors. They are addiction counsellors, they speak the absolute truth and so he'll have to face up to his behaviors, actions and the consequences. He's been saying he's going to go for months but has finally done it so its a step in the right direction.

Quote:
Well, I will say this.........where there's will there's a way. KWIM? Pay as you go cell phones, start a new email account, etc. But the red flag I see is him putting a deadline of a month on this supposedly no contact with OW. That just speaks to me that he is not serious enough.

I probably didnt explain it very well in my original post - he said he's cutting contact "until we know what is going on in our marriage" and when I asked how long he expected this to be he said about a month, I said that I didnt think a month was very long and he said "i'm not putting a time limit on it, i'm just going to take it step by step and see what happens, thats all I can do".

Quote:
When you say he admitted certain things about his feelings growing, etc. I think of the word "admitted" as an answer given when one is prompted or questioned. To me, it's not quite the same as when it is volunteered information. Were you asking him these things?

No I say admitted because I could tell his feelings were changing because of his actions & attitude towards me but I didnt say anything & he just made small hints like "I've really enjoyed your company this weekend" and "my feelings are beginning to change" and I just left him to it & didnt question.

A couple of days later he called me to tell me that he was beginning to get his feelings back for me & that the future seemed much more positive for us etc then he majorly panicked and backed off (by his own admission) - after this convo I went NC because of OW as I didnt want to get pulled in whilst he was in contact with her.

Quote:
He needs to make his decision based on what is the right thing to do, and not just on his feelings. But I don't think you are in a position where you can tell him. I am just trying to explain to you. Plus, if he thinks he is doing exactly what you have asked of him........then he will believe he's done his part. But ending contact is simply the first step.

He said he's doing this because its what is right & he knows its the right thing to do for HIM, I've stressed to him that I DONT want him to do it because i've asked him it needs to be because HE has decided to do it.

Quote:
If it takes time for him to process things in his life, you can certainly hope that some time away from OW is better than no time at all. It just doesn't solve his problem until he decides to permanently end it.

He's the type of person who has to experience it to see if its the right thing. I am tempted to ask him if he plans on ending the contact permanently if things between us go well or just to leave it?


Quote:
And back to the subject of how friendly you should be........since he believes he is doing what you have asked, you can use this time to be more pleasant and friendly towards him. But if he doesn't end things with OW after the month is up, then I would certainly limit my friendliness.

Yes thats my plan, i'll go dark as I really dont want to be around him whilst her or any other OW is in his life.

Quote:
Have you considered selling out your share of the business? If you end up getting D, it could be very uncomfortable.

Yes i've considered it however its a fairly new business & will be worth a lot more in a few years so i'm reluctant to walk away yet - we have discussed it & I could just become a silent partner until i was ready to sell.


Divorce Final: Oct 2014

Your struggles today, develop strength for tomorrow...
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Okay, thanks for clarification.

Quote:
He's the type of person who has to experience it to see if its the right thing. I am tempted to ask him if he plans on ending the contact permanently if things between us go well or just to leave it?


I would not ask until he begins to talk about seeing you more, etc. B/c it sounds very pushy. You have ever right, no doubt about it, but it wouldn't be a good move at this time. However, there will be a come a time, if you still need assurance he will not contact OW ever, and you can tell him.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
U
Upwards Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
U
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
Tough few days but thankfully think I'm coming out the other side, my hormones really play havoc with my emotions & detachment, need to take note next time & be prepared for it!! Hoping tomorrow will be brighter as feeling a lot more level headed now, phew!

H has cut contact with OW, he's given me access to his phone account & will show me he's blocked her etc when I next see him - I have no idea how long it will last (he says there is no time limit on it, until we know what's going on with us) so I suppose just need to keep my distance but it means as can interact about the kids/business etc. I'm remaining "dim" at the moment, leaving him to do the contacting & not always answering when he does, no pressure & lots of space, no R or future talks - I've done some new small goals and refreshed my 180s, focusing on GAL and being confident/happy.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
I would not ask until he begins to talk about seeing you more, etc. B/c it sounds very pushy.


OK thank you Sandi, makes sense & I know timing is important.


Divorce Final: Oct 2014

Your struggles today, develop strength for tomorrow...
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
U
Upwards Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
U
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
Me & H had a heated discussion yesterday, both expressed our feelings & I think it needed doing to be honest to clear the air. We both said some quite hurtful things, some in anger & some the truth, not really DB but a lot of it needed saying. We both apologised afterwards & called a truce.

We've both agreed on the following:
* We dont want to be together right now.
* We're about 90% sure we're heading for divorce.
* There is a chance our feelings will change in the future.
* Neither of us want all this animosity & stress.
* We're going to concentrate on the kids/business and selves.
* We both need time to heal & for things to settle.

So at the moment i'm keeping contact minimal and to kids/business, H was being quite cold towards me & very distant again but hoping our discussion last night cleared the air. We both need some time & space. I'm going to take H's lead really, if he begins to contact me more then i'll use some of the DB techniques that have helped us in the past but until then i'm "acting as if", being friendly and working on myself.

I'm beginning to try to prepare myself for divorce frown not sure how much I can really "prepare" but i'm expecting the worst now & anything else is a bonus - still have hope though, I think I always will.

I've been struggling with detachment in the past few days, I suppose there has been a lot going on so that may be why but I want my head to control me & not my emotions - H's affair has been forefront of my mind because of him cutting contact so i've been thinking about that a lot, I cant trust him right now so i'm understandably worried that he's just going to continue contact somehow but that's not in my control. Any tips on how to change my thinking on this?


Divorce Final: Oct 2014

Your struggles today, develop strength for tomorrow...
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,144
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,144
First, I'm really glad Sandi dropped in....I'm a huge fan of her advice. She's straight to the point and dead on.

Originally Posted By: Upwards
Me & H had a heated discussion yesterday, both expressed our feelings & I think it needed doing to be honest to clear the air.


I'm going to challenge you on this. Why do you think having a heated discussion clears the air? Why do you think saying anything at this point improves the situation?

Yeah, I'm sure you felt better getting some things off your chest....but that's not really my question.

Originally Posted By: Upwards
I'm beginning to try to prepare myself for divorce frown not sure how much I can really "prepare" but i'm expecting the worst now & anything else is a bonus - still have hope though, I think I always will.


I do think you can mentally prepare to an extent. Accepting it actually can remove some stress. The uncertainty of "am I or aren't I" really is an unhealthy place.

Also, you can start getting your ducks in a row....consult an attorney, start planning YOUR future, protect yourself.

Originally Posted By: Upwards
...so i'm understandably worried that he's just going to continue contact somehow but that's not in my control. Any tips on how to change my thinking on this?


This one is difficult, and will take some time. First, you have to accept that you can only control you....regardless what you would like your H to do, that's for him to decide. Second, you have to accept that you will be ok regardless of your H's decisions. Again, it's going to take some time and some practice, and throwing in some GAL is incredibly helpful as well.


M:44 W:42
M:15
S:19, D:16, S:14, D:12, S:6
BD: 2/14/11
D Final: 6/25/13
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 634
Y
Member
Offline
Member
Y
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 634
Hello Upwards

IMHO everything its being rushed towards something you knew already...D
Whats the difference now? That you have a more exact percent?
I believe in this case the fear took control of the situation and it was no patience around.

I really cant see how that conversation could help, yes its a way for you to receive Reasurance and drop your hopes, it seems that you love him so much that you can only letting him go if you make sure there is no chance...
Again in my opinion that conversation, was a way of controlling things, and as you see now you are still wondering if you should contact him or not...

We worry about those things because we want to control, its like a drug for us and if we don't withdrawal then...
The proper way for that not to affect you its letting go, reading DB again and definitly the book "the power of letting go"


Keep an eye on that 90% and a few of those points because I think they will do some effect in the next coming days or weeks.

Upwards you been doing great, you need to GAL and focus on you, this is your sitch and you have to learn to let go of control, you can't control how all this its gonna go, you are trying to do exactly that and its not going to work, its like a fog that will trow you down over and over....

Your H asked for D a long time ago, you have been doing great in many ways, I believe and maybe I am seeing this different, that you see him as an addict and you still think that you can help him in a way and rescue him out of his problems...

Could I ask you something?
Did you have this conversation with him "with an intention to wake him up"?


When the student its ready, the teacher will appear...
Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me."
Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
U
Upwards Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
U
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455

Thanks Breakdown smile

Originally Posted By: Breakdown
Why do you think having a heated discussion clears the air? Why do you think saying anything at this point improves the situation?

It was my H that requested we talk - I was basically tired of him not having any empathy towards me & called him on it (prob shouldn't have but I spent a long time being too afraid to say how I felt & so I just did it, I wish I hasn't but it's done now. He got angry then admitted it's because the guilt overwhelms him. It wasn't a big row, just a few things said that had been building up for us both I suppose.

Quote:
I do think you can mentally prepare to an extent. Accepting it actually can remove some stress. The uncertainty of "am I or aren't I" really is an unhealthy place.

Yes that makes sense, I'm getting there slowly I think.

Quote:
First, you have to accept that you can only control you....regardless what you would like your H to do, that's for him to decide. Second, you have to accept that you will be ok regardless of your H's decisions. Again, it's going to take some time and some practice, and throwing in some GAL is incredibly helpful as well.

I know I can only control me & I'm trying that to the best of my ability, trying hard to remain detached but keep backsliding - been doing a lot of soul searching & I'm trying to figure out WHY I keep backsliding so I can work on it.

My GAL has been slow because of the kids being off school so that's probably impacted, I feel like I've had very little "me time" recently.


Divorce Final: Oct 2014

Your struggles today, develop strength for tomorrow...
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
U
Upwards Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
U
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 455
Originally Posted By: ye21
Your H asked for D a long time ago

My H has never asked for divorce & said on many occasions that he doesn't see divorce as an option at the moment. We both agree thats where it looks like it might be heading, but neither of us want to take that step yet as neither of us really knows what we want - me included.

Quote:
you have been doing great in many ways, I believe and maybe I am seeing this different, that you see him as an addict and you still think that you can help him in a way and rescue him out of his problems...

Believe me I KNOW that I cant rescue him from his problems! I tried for a long time to help him but I know now that there is only one person that can help him & that's himself. I understand how you may think its that way but i'm way beyond that stage, I spent months in counselling alongside his rehab & know that none of it is my fault or within my control.

Quote:
Did you have this conversation with him "with an intention to wake him up"?

He asked for the conversation - I know nothing I do or say will "wake him up" and the convo was nothing like that anyway. I was angry so he asked me to tell him why, I expressed that I would not tolerate being treated like crap by him or anyone else & the way he'd spoken to me earlier in the day was not fair (it was way out of line!). It may not be strictly DB but it needed saying, I will not tolerate being treated like rubbish!

He got angry - then apologised & took full responsibiltiy and agreed that it was wrong of him to speak to me like he had, he was tired & I caught him in a bad mood.


Divorce Final: Oct 2014

Your struggles today, develop strength for tomorrow...
Page 6 of 11 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard