I know snooping is against Sandi's rules, but at least for my situation, it led to me standing up for myself. I was content with GALing and being positive around W while I assumed she was not in contact with OM and was trying to figure things out. How it will contribute to the end of my situation, I don't know, but finding evidence finally gave me the courage to put my foot down, be a man and establish a boundary similar to you.
This was my experience as well. If continued contact with her OM was a dealbreaker for me (and it was), and on the other hand if I was to be loving and giving and FORgiving and even a little PURSUING in trying to reconcile . . . I personally saw no OTHER way than to independently get some intel on whether or not the affair was still going on.
To be, it was critical info necessary in my potentially life- and family-altering decision-making.
I had told W that I was willing to go to MC only after she was rid of OM and there were just 2 of us in the M.
Now she would like to book an MC session. She thinks I won't go because I will never admit to being wrong on anything. Then she can say I refused. She wants to go to someone recommended by her therapist. Her therapist has a very lopsided view of me, is pro-D, and has told W to never admit A, since I will hold it over her forever.
Of course, I would like some say in the selection of MC, someone solution-based, pro-M. And it is pointless to go until A is over and W gets through withdrawal period.
I can simply decline because the ended A condition that I stipulated hasn't been met. She'll lie and just say that I refused going, but all she does is lie anyway, so I guess this is all status quo.
Lets go point by point and for that its important to bring up your issues with this ok?
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I had told W that I was willing to go to MC only after she was rid of OM and there were just 2 of us in the M.
The help provided to repair situations in my opinion should arrive once we have the problems and if both parts agree to receive help. Whats your fear of her going to MC even if she stills in an affair? You are going to a safe place to talk about the relationship, that for me sounds like the best environment to take care of this issues.
Now she would like to book an MC session. She thinks I won't go because I will never admit to being wrong on anything.
Ok, do we care about what she thinks? Nop , she will expose her thoughs and ideas in therapy and that doesnt mean everything she think its true, validation when she talks doesnt mean you agree with all she says. Also stop mindreading, at this point you have read and work on yourself enough in this forum to know that minreading its leaded by fear.
Then she can say I refused. She wants to go to someone recommended by her therapist. Her therapist has a very lopsided view of me, is pro-D, and has told W to never admit A, since I will hold it over her forever.
You are putting the bandit before the fall, wait and see how it goes, if you dont like the Therapist she chooses you can let her know after the session, you are judging her capacity to choose and also the profesionalism of a T that you havent visited yet, at this point PMA...she is willing to go to MC, thats all should be on your thoughs.
Of course, I would like some say in the selection of MC, someone solution-based, pro-M. She told you lets go to therapy, your need to control wants to drop this idea already thinking that there is a better way, do you think that behaviour lead her to escape of the M? Always thinking you were right choosing and she was wrong?
Imagine that you go to this MC with PMA, after a few sessions you can see how it goes and say something (if you dont like it ) like this: I am proud of you choosing this T, how do you feel its working for you? And see what she says.
And it is pointless to go until A is over and W gets through withdrawal period. Why that conclusion? When you buy a car you think its pointless because its going to break? You seem to be looking for perfection, trust me I was in the same page and it ended with my W not going to MC at all, just let go and let God, trust that this is happening the way its supposed to and you don't know the future so stop interfering and just go to T with a PMA and thinking that at least W its willing to go, later on you can see if its the appropriate for you or not.
I can simply decline because the ended A condition that I stipulated hasn't been met. She'll lie and just say that I refused going, but all she does is lie anyway, so I guess this is all status quo.
Yes, thats your choice to not go, also its your choice to fill and get D, here when you ask for help we show you other options to choose, whatever you choose at the end its on you, we don't choose for you, but one thing, in this case you are trying to control and you are making that decision based on fear. Think about it, she wants to D, she is in an affair and the R its death, but stills...she is willing to go to MC, maybe its time for you to give her some credit...who knows, maybe MC helps you to go over the A and helps her to drop the A....
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
The move is almost certainly tactical on her part so she can rid herself of the guilt of not trying MC. She truly thinks I'll decline. She hasn't given up OM. She won't admit it in MC - she's had too much coaching.
So we're looking at the alternative of sticking with the conditions of entry (no OM), or going (with or w/o a proper MC selection), and maybe she sees that I am willing to admit fault and work on things, and that somehow changes her perspective.
Veterans on this board suggest that doesn't happen. MC for a WAW in an A will only serve to confirm to them why they are leaving, because you admit fault, and they hear nothing after that.
Zew, I don't think you have anything to gain by going to MC right now, especially to someone your W has chosen. From what I've read in other threads, the only time MC will work is when both of you are committed to the same agenda. It doesn't sound like she is and no matter what fault you accept, will only use this session to help justify her actions.
Looking at this from my relatively rookie DB perspective, I'm no expert, but it sounds like you set a boundary and an expectation that in order for MC to occur, there could be no OM involved. If the OM is still involved I see no point in going to MC. I have been told this by several people on my thread, and I understand it. Going to MC now if the OM is still involved just shows her you are waffling.
Perhaps saying something like "As you know, provided there are only 2 of us in this relationship, I would welcome the opportunity to meet with a MC". Unfortunately, if you change what you tolerate, you will give an unclear message, and that is the last thing a WAW needs to see. She will see that you are waffling on your boundaries. Just my 2 cents
Of course, her not admitting the A makes it a lot tougher and more confusing for sure. I can see where you are stuck.
If you know the OM is still involved, I would not go. That's my short answer.
Hope I didn't muddle your waters too much. Good luck!
Tarheel, Devaste, I tend to agree. If she asks, I would reiterate separation from OM as a precondition to MC. Anything less means she's hedging and isn't serious. If we go to MC, we need to both go in willing to face our issues with full honesty and commitment to R.
She isn't ready to accept that answer, but I believe it is the only answer. Nor is she ready to go to MC. And I don't know if she'll ever get to the point of being able to say there was an OM, and not fear that I'll never forgive her.
On the other hand, while I understand Ye's "just go with it and see what happens" perspective, I think it would be just accepting whatever she is willing to offer. My gut says that this is just gamesmanship, it will just give her a moderated soapbox.
W's friends are advising her to get to L. They are afraid that I am going to have her served.
I am in no rush to do that, yet: 1. It wouldn't be DB 2. It would make me the bad guy 3. It's to my financial advantage to have her earn as much as possible at new job before figuring out alimony/support.
So, it would appear that she has credible threat of D by me. Yet, OM still in picture as of yesterday.
D12 asked W yesterday, "Mommy, if Daddy has no money to put on your CC, how come he can go out to dinner?" (My GAL dinner on Tuesday)
I feel all DB has had no effect on this, other than helping me come to grips. Just seems that every day, she is more resolved on her path. I believe that problems are typically easier to resolve the earlier are tackled. I am really reduced to just letting this ride?
I feel all DB has had no effect on this, other than helping me come to grips. Just seems that every day, she is more resolved on her path. I believe that problems are typically easier to resolve the earlier are tackled. I am really reduced to just letting this ride?
Zew many of us feel like this, however there is a important thing, if after all this happens you are able to survive, become a better Dad and a better person and you ended being happier with yourself, do you still thinking its not worth it?
Basically we always want to know the outcome because its easier to "control" what we know, what we dont know we dont care about it....
You are doing great, and at the end no matter what if she chooses to D thats her problem, what it really matters for me is that you walk this path and you find the exit without loosing yourself, there are many people who get divorce, and many who remarried, and many of them still carry the same issues in each relationship they get into it. You with DBing and posting here are reducing the probabilities of that happening, whoever this ends, you will be proud of yourself.
You are a human being entitled to do what in the eyes of others are mistakes, just look at the scientifics or doctors, they have to live a life where thye keep failing to ended finding a solution....and look at how many people benefit from that.... In this forum the " mistakes" help you to act in a different way next time and learn, and your W its not entitled to judge you for that. Because of the way we are raised, in our system there is always this belief of "do good things and get a reward, do bad things and be punished" and thats why we are so hard in ourselves everytime we do something not according the way others expect.
My W blamed me of not trusting her....she didnt trust me either, but she didnt consider that a mistake because she consider that the abusse inflicted by her father justified that.... That made me suffer unumerous abusse thinking that taking it I was helping her...at the end I was judged and "punished" in my mind, the reality is that the only person who punish himself was me, I tought it was part of life to be punished, today I dont see things that way, I have compassion for myself and I realize that those "mistakes" are experiences that help me grow, the fact that we fail has to be taken as an experience to grow!!!
Or because you failed in certain areas you are gonna give up love? Do you realize how we punish ourselves? I failed in supporting her!! I deserve all this... I will never be loved again because I failed in my marriage...
Now look at the oter way, you did things in a different way, you are learning from them and they might not repeat anymore, that means you are growing up, if its not enough for her, that should not discourage you from being loved again.
When people get D I believe their next marriage sometimes doesnt work because they dont allow themselves to learn and improve themselves, the benefit of DB is that encourage you to spend all this time working on that, on improving yourself, and sometimes as a consecuence of this you get back with your spouse... However thats not the goal...dB its a like an intense training course to learn how to be a better you...
You are doing fine, and we are here at your side
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
