Thanks GM and 77. I am hoping that I find a place of peace soon and can rediscover happiness on some level. Right now, it looks like a place that is about a million miles away from anywhere I have been lately.
When I speak to people, my C, or even you guys here I never paint myself as a hero or the ideal spouse...I talk openly about my faults, not as I saw them - but as SHE saw them...that is hard. To date, she has not reciprocated in the least and has stepped up and owned nothing really. The extent of what she has owned (and I have said this before) is her saying "I ALLOWED you to treat me that way". That's all I have ever gotten back. Her essentially saying she was a victim and not really a contributor.
GM, the fertility thing breaks my heart so much. It just doesn't seem fair that someone can go through all of that just to leave you once you have a baby and then hope to hand that life off to another man on a silver platter. Again - that was the life I was promised. That is my son. OUR son. GM, my memory is dotted with scenes of her in hospital gowns being sedated as we transferred embryos....me bedside and holding her hand to comfort her. Pictures of me giving her shot, after shot, after shot....day in, day out...all in pursuit of our family. That was love. That was love to me...that was intimacy in the most non-traditional of ways. Where did all of those memories go for her? We were strong for each other when we needed it.....and I did my best to support her in any way possible. After all of that, I remember her shouting on BD that "there is no love in this house!". That phrase plays in my head a lot....it burned. I loved her so much. I loved our son so much. I loved our family so much. I just lacked the ways to show it in a meaningful way. I never, ever stopped loving her. And as much as I am humiliated to say it - I don't know if I ever have. If I never loved her, if there was no love in our home -- how could I have fought this hard to save it? Why can't SHE see it that way? Why am I SO BAD in her eyes? Why? Why does she say "we're just incompatible!" over and over again. Why did it take 8 years, marriage and a baby for her to discover that? I'm not blind -- why didn't I see these incompatibilities??
I get angry because looking back on it, she got to make all of the decisions for all of us that will have a long-lasting impact. But now, when it comes to S, she says "we are a team".....I do not feel that way. When I would send her pics and updates of S when I had him, I would always take the time to ask "how was/is your weekend" -- or "did you do anything fun?". In C last week she told me that was "prying into her personal life". Really?? We are a "team" but I can't ask how your weekend was? She also said she was afraid now I know about OM that I would stop sending pictures and updates to her....and she likes them. THAT was her concern....not me, not my feelings in the moment, not S....she was concerned about what SHE was going to get or not get. I felt like I was standing in a pile of rubble and all she could ask about was her pictures of S??
She told me she is moving to a townhouse near her current place on 5/1. I am just waiting for the text or e-mail that says she is moving in with OM (who I think she has known for less than 4 months)....then, of course, she will be pregnant and/or married. All the while, our embryo remains frozen and will never have a chance at life. Why??
Back to your S, because you're right, he's the one who has very little say in how his life goes. (I'm not negating your stress but you'll work through it and you have an IC)
S isn't too young to have someone help him sort out his feelings. Your city has lots of resources, research play therapy. If he's that distraught every time he has to go to XW, he needs help navigating that and you need help helping him.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Valid point, Bug -- and I have been thinking about looking someone up for S to go see.
I spent some time at lunch this afternoon kind of working through why I am struggling with letting all of this go and I think I made a breakthrough or two.
1.) I think I am struggling to let go of the promise/vision of us raising our S together.
We never really got to do this - he was so little when she left. And I always dreamed of vacations, teaching him together, watching him grow together. To this day when he does something amazing she is the first person that I want to tell. I get jealous when I see other families walking around with children his age. On the one hand, it is a beautiful thing to observe - on the other, it's a reminder of what I thought I was going to have and still want with his mother. THAT, I am finding, it tough to surrender.
When S was about 9 months old XW wanted to start working on baby #2. I wasn't ready yet. I was still getting used to being a parent and was still reeling from the IVF and IUI process. I needed time to heal, adjust and get ready to do it again. In her mind (and she has said this) I said "nope" to a second baby. And, therefore, I was giving up on "her dream", as she put it - and she wasn't ready to. Such a misunderstanding that resulted in so much resentment from her. If she only knew how much I wanted #2 and a family. I wish she would have been more patient with me and understanding of where I was at the time. It didn't seem to matter too much to her at the moment. She was so passionate about it, I don't think she was willing to let anything get in her way - including me.
2.) I think I feel as if letting go is saying I wasn't good enough.
I am not patting myself on the back - but over the years, I did a lot (I think) to help improve her life. When I met her, she was a struggling part-time graduate student and a social worker. She was getting tossed around (like most of us) in a crummy dating pool. I fell for her, and wanted to make her life better if I could. When she was broke, I would help her financially without thinking twice. Eventually, she moved in and I think things changed for the better for her. Now, I will be the first to say that the "material" things are not what really mattered to her and I neglected the emotional - huge mistake. I love her as deeply as I could and would have moved the Earth for her if I had to. I knew I wasn't going to leave her - ever - because I felt that she made ME better, too. I fight with the notion that the best that I could do for her - or any woman - was not even enough to keep her in the marriage. I feel inadequate, and in light of the OM popping up, I feel like he SURELY must be perfect and everything that I was not.
3.) This is the most humiliating of all -- I feel awful about someone else getting the love that I wanted and getting her time and attention.
The thought of her sharing a bed with another man makes me sick to my stomach. Add to the fact that my son would be one room over makes it that much worse. Again, it's like observing someone else living the life I wanted so badly. I feel like this new R is a stunning eye-opener of just how terrible of a R we had and how terrible of a father I was in her eyes. Not a lot of elaborating needed on that one.
I know I have probably extrapolated waaaay too far in the future with XW and OM -- and it's not healthy. I think I get caught in the "wouldn't just me by luck if...." world and then assume the most painful conclusions. I think it is exacerbated by the fact that I know she is very baby-focused. She was last spring when we got together for awhile and I doubt she has let that go much....though I could be wrong. She will be 41 in July and I know she sometimes feels like "time's a'wastin'". Ergo, could I potentially see her getting wrapped up in a relationship that is about 3-4 months old? Yeah, I think so. Could I see her trying to get pregnant before the year is up? Yep. And my guess would be if she has found someone that is down with that plan she will be thrilled because I was always so (probably "too") pragmatic about family planning and I think she resented me for it. So if this guy is ready to roll and make a baby, she probably feels it's the "right" thing for her. Remember, her whole rap to me last spring about there needing to be a "flow" in a relationship where no one has to change, or force anything.....things just, "flow". Maybe that is what she thinks she has.
Bug - Thank you for telling me I am taking on a victim mentality. It's painful to hear because I know it is ugly -- but I also know you are right. And I don't like it. I am making headway in pulling out of it. Last night, S fell asleep cuddled up next to me and I thought to myself "F--k her for not being able to see how awesome we are!" -- we being me and S, of course. Because you know what? As a pair we ARE awesome -- he is a beautiful, kind, smart, sweet little boy who is innocent and curious about everything in the world. And I am finally not just a "father", but a "dad" who loves his son, changed his attitudes and outlooks to be the best dad possible and can handle anything with him on my own - the distance I've covered is amazing to me. I teach him love and kindness, respect for others -- and yes, even to respect and listen to his mother as hard as it is at times. So yeah, we ARE awesome. And if after all of this time she can't notice who I am, or who S truly is -- or who we are as a father/son pair, then SHE has a problem. Because finding someone who loves you as deeply and as unconditionally as I did is no easy task. And I have learned from my IC and divorced female friends that finding a man that will admit fault, change, and fight hard for his marriage and family is equally difficult and rare - and is nothing to throw away. So to her claim on BD that "There is no love in this house!" I say, FEH! That house had more love than she was capable of absorbing - and it still does - she just lacked the patience to let it grow. Pity that she overlooked it for her short-term feelings any thoughts. To walk away from me and S now is to walk away from an abundance of love. So for now, as far as I am concerned, she is permanently stuck in second place - because S and I as a pair were her gold medal.
GM - SOOOOOO many folks here and elsewhere have told me she has not worked on any of her problems. And believe me when I say I do not paint myself as "perfect" to them in my past actions. But it remains evident that she still has not looked inward at all. I was thinking last night that there was a period of time not too long after BD where we went to see a C 4-5 times. As long as the focus was on me and my shortcomings (there was a lot of meat there) she was cool with it. But when the C shifted to spotlight to her she said it was "exhausting" and she didn't want to go anymore and she quit. In our marriage whenever she was conflicted with others at work or elsewhere she was always concerned about propagating this notion that "I am a good person!"....and I think that anything that would give her cause to believe that MAYBE she isn't a "good person" gets locked away in tight little dark box and swept under the bed. It's never confronted. It's never owned. It's never acknowledged. And let's be honest -- in this whole ordeal there has been a lot of "not-such-a-good-person" things that went down on her end. It wasn't until 25yearsmlc basically held a gun to my head and said you need to look at YOU and what YOU are that I "got it". There is liberation in owning your faults and the hurt you caused others. I never knew that in my marriage, but I know it now.....she does not.
(I'm clearly ranting again, but at least it is positive)
With regard to blame and non-acceptance of fault, I remember one jaw-dropping example in this journey that pretty much sums it all up. The D had been wrapped up and we were texting one night about something. Her finical issues came up (she chose a very expensive L on a high school guidance counselor's salary). Trying to be honest and empathetic, I said "Gee, XW, I feel bad for you -- I wish I was able to help". Her response? "I feel like you SHOULD help me. It's your fault that I'm in this mess". Logic being, that I fought her on so many things legally that I ran up her legal bills and had I NOT done that she would not have been in such a tight spot. I think I ended the text convo after that. From that GOLDEN example of a total lack of accountability to her claims that S is having a hard time transitioning household because of me, and that I am telling him that mom didn't want to come to this party with us, etc. - it is clear that she has done NO WORK AT ALL in terms of owning not only her issues, but her role in all of this. It is way easier to pin things on me....still. Though, during visit last week she was able to tell me that she forgives ME for my actions and also has forgiven HERSELF - which she said was hard for her. Really?? WTF does that mean? And how is that even possible if you haven't owned anything to forgive yourself for?
I am pretty sure that my days of falling on the sword to keep the peace and to keep her happy are over. She never acknowledged or appreciated it anyway. All it did was create a sense of entitlement. Otherwise, why would she bring up "wanting to negotiate time" better with the C so she can have extra days when she is off in the summer? She is still angry about me not letting her having all of the days she wanted at Christmas time. The Crimson that did that is dead. As dead as the Crimson that was out of touch with his wife and marriage before the bomb. I no longer have to go out of my way and give to show her that things can be better, different in our R. I no longer have to show her that I have grown. Because I KNOW that I have. And she still views me through a lens that sees me as no different. Partially, I believe, because she doesn't want to trust me - but also because in doing so it would invalidate her choices. No matter. It truly, truly is her loss....both me and her time with our S.
I tried like hell to keep the road home paved and smooth, but it does little good when the other person doesn't even bother to take out the map.
Don't look to your W for your worth, that has to come from inside you. You may never get it from her but what does it matter? She doesn't think much of herself, either. She seems a pretty empty shell.
Stop dissecting her, you will never be OK with it. She is who she is until she decides to change. It seems that you still want some control here, you want her to change to be someone she isn't. Let that go.
Enjoy the great R with your S, help him navigate these muddy waters, continue being the best dad you can be, communicate with her as little as possible.
You can do this.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Thanks GM and 77. I am hoping that I find a place of peace soon and can rediscover happiness on some level. Right now, it looks like a place that is about a million miles away from anywhere I have been lately. When I speak to people, my C, or even you guys here I never paint myself as a hero or the ideal spouse...I talk openly about my faults, not as I saw them - but as SHE saw them...that is hard. To date, she has not reciprocated in the least and has stepped up and owned nothing really. The extent of what she has owned (and I have said this before) is her saying "I ALLOWED you to treat me that way". That's all I have ever gotten back. Her essentially saying she was a victim and not really a contributor.
Dear Sweet Crimson, this^^^ is all about the "Contest" between you and your w. A FAKE Contest....that has to end now.
She and her happiness (or misery) are NOT an index to yours...they are Unrelated.
So is whether she ever "owns" the demise of the m. What your son will know is your close R and loving R with HIM...and maybe a future loving R you'll have with OW... or even a recon with your x wife.
Point is, who cares if SHE does not grow and work on herself? How does that affect YOU? It does not.
Her failure to grow is HER problem, NOT yours. What a relief for YOU! Her failure to grow keeps her in the victim mode which btw is why your presumption that "She gets to be happy" is unlikely to be accurate or lasting and is premature at best.
I think she NEEDS to meet OMs to see you more objectively and perhaps, to see herself more realistically.
Besides, All I care about is how much better a man you are now, than before.
Hey, I recall you when you were first here. You were a man who had never read a book to his son, never changed a diaper, never put him to bed and never picked him up from or dropped him off at day care ...
and now, You are his favorite person in the whole world. So, You "win".
Enough said there.
GM, the fertility thing breaks my heart so much. It just doesn't seem fair that someone can go through all of that just to leave you once you have a baby and then hope to hand that life off to another man on a silver platter. Again - that was the life I was promised. That is my son. OUR son.
You're right. It is not fair. Okay? We agree. We get it. It's not fair. Not to be snarky but to give you a gentle reminder of perspective....unfair? Hey, Neither is Africa...
GM, my memory is dotted with scenes of her in hospital gowns being sedated as we transferred embryos....me bedside and holding her hand to comfort her. Pictures of me giving her shot, after shot, after shot....day in, day out...all in pursuit of our family. That was love. That was love to me...that was intimacy in the most non-traditional of ways.
She has NOT forgotten this^^^...it may be buried under her inability to forgive, which is enmeshed with her own self esteem problems...but it will resurface in time. And if not, well...so what? So what if she never recalls things the way you do?
YOU remember it well and that needs to be enough. She may not ever see the past the way you do. I doubt she will.
How much time do you want to spend contemplating that?
Where did all of those memories go for her? We were strong for each other when we needed it.....and I did my best to support her in any way possible. After all of that, I remember her shouting on BD that "there is no love in this house!". That phrase plays in my head a lot....it burned. I loved her so much. I loved our son so much. I loved our family so much. I just lacked the ways to show it in a meaningful way. IF that^^ was true, it's no longer so, Thus it is not relevant b/c that data is OUT dated...you are more loving now. Period. Problem solved.
Plus, what may also be true is, she has a problem getting past things, communicating like an adult, instead of silently seething, with perhaps a long fuse but a big bomb at the end of it. That has not changed so, you are perhaps better off for now, letting her learn some lessons with OM and not twisting your heart for now.
I never, ever stopped loving her. And as much as I am humiliated to say it - I don't know if I ever have. If I never loved her, if there was no love in our home -- how could I have fought this hard to save it? Why can't SHE see it that way? Why am I SO BAD in her eyes? Why? Why does she say "we're just incompatible!" over and over again. Why did it take 8 years, marriage and a baby for her to discover that? I'm not blind -- why didn't I see these incompatibilities??
Because You don't see the past or the present the same way. That's just true.
How much time and energy are you going to spend on things over which you have NO control? That is my question for you.
I know the OM is a huge trigger and it's why you are cycling thru this. So I'm just reminding you to be back on track.... how much energy/time do you want to spend on things over which you have no control?
It's okay to process things in your time, but at some point you will have to ask yourself...
Since life is so short, how much of it do you want to waste?
I get angry because looking back on it, she got to make all of the decisions for all of us that will have a long-lasting impact. But now, when it comes to S, she says "we are a team".....I do not feel that way. When I would send her pics and updates of S when I had him, I would always take the time to ask "how was/is your weekend" -- or "did you do anything fun?". In C last week she told me that was "prying into her personal life". Really?? We are a "team" but I can't ask how your weekend was?
Back way off. And btw, what if anything have you specifically TOLD her, since the OM bomb was dropped? What does she know of how you feel?
She also said she was afraid now I know about OM that I would stop sending pictures and updates to her....and she likes them. THAT was her concern....not me, not my feelings in the moment, not S.... This^^ is an over reaction here, imo. All she SAID was what she said...not all that she felt or thought or worried about, but what she was willing to SAY to you. That's not much. Don't read into this so much...
if pressed, you could say
"so after you told me about OM and wanting our son around HIM, your first/biggest concern was about how YOU'D suffer from getting fewer pictures of son? Wow, that is really helpful for me to know. Thanks"... b'c if it is really literally truly the only thing that mattered to her, which I doubt,
then you should see that as valuable "intel" about your x, b/c it really is. OR would be, if true.
she was concerned about what SHE was going to get or not get. I felt like I was standing in a pile of rubble and all she could ask about was her pictures of S??
She told me she is moving to a townhouse near her current place on 5/1. I am just waiting for the text or e-mail that says she is moving in with OM (who I think she has known for less than 4 months)....then, of course, she will be pregnant and/or married. All the while, our embryo remains frozen and will never have a chance at life. Why??
I'm still ranting....sorry.
Crimson
It's okay to rant.
IT's not okay to assume you will be alone forever, never again having a child, never loving anyone again OR being loved again, and then what??
Dying??
Wait, not just dying but dying alone, hopelessly living under a bridge, while wild dogs chew at your corpse???
Crimson, this too shall pass. But I know it hurts and I'm so sorry. I still see this as a possible step towards each other
only b/c I think so highly of you. I cannot imagine ANY OM comparing well to you...but it may take your son to reveal that about him, or to your w, or whatever.
We can hope OM is kind to your son. Kind enough for your son to not dread his "mom time" and that maybe son could learn to see someone like that as a kindly uncle. The more affirmations we get from adults, the better. However, I KNOW you will never be replaced.
Crimson, please hear what I'm saying. Your son will never ever forget who you are.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25- the wild dogs hyperbole made me spit coffee out. Thank you...
Crim- I think sometimes we get stuck in these little dips and although we will eventually get the momentum to propel ourselves out, sometimes it takes a while. I just went through a "what could possibly be so awful about me" that H immediately entered another relationship and then when that ended, took up with a woman with 5 year old twins??!! He doesn't even see his OWN kids at the most once every two weeks.... So I had a pity party for a day.
But that's it. Because at the core, if you have come this far, and you have, you are strong and you are worth it. And it's not about you. Sorry. That's the last last hurdle. You can say "Oh I know" all you want, but I think it takes awhile to believe it every day, every minute every second. We are all so human, you know?
I have watched you grow and search yourself and become stronger. This is just your next step of growth and change is always painful. Requires a little searching, but you have the tools to work with now.
Be the most awesome Crimson we see here. That light is hard to ignore.
We spend a lot of time working in ourselves, but its important to not forget that we all didnt create the whole situation! The other person has also a big responsability and the fact that we clean our side of the street its not to show them how great we are only, also for them to see that their side its littered and kne day they will have to clean it too in order to find their own happiness!!
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
