Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 10 1 2 3 4 9 10
Barrybran #2446403 04/17/14 03:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
I was feeling good about my day and now I'm in very deep thought. My wife wanted to talk to me when I got home about:

- an inappropriate comment I made in front of our family friend. The family friend told me she was going out of town next week and I asked if she was taking our kids. She said she wasn't as she couldn't fit the kids in the car. I joked that my kids had been bumped for family friend's grandson. I didn't mean anything by it but she was offended by it and told my wife. I'm going to find her and apologise tomorrow;

- the home gym I bought. My wife cited that I'd kept spending pretty tight when we were together and now that we're separated I bought a home gym. She brought up the car service again as well as the clothes that she bought for the kids on the weekend. She said it was a "slap in the face" that I would spend money on myself when I was so frugal when we were together. She felt I controlled our relationship with money and that my priorities weren't the same as hers and weren't family-oriented; and

- me not cleaning the house today. I was home for much of the morning and my wife felt I should have cleaned up before I went to work.

My wife also mocked the haircut I got by saying "I hope you find a new nympho girlfriend" (a reference to the girl I was seeing when we were separated prior to marriage) and that I didn't "look like a father". I'm disregarding these as I feel good about myself. I got the new hairstyle because I'm going to go bald and I wanted to see how it looks. I like it.

She also said that if I had enough money to buy a home gym I have enough money to move out. I didn't acknowledge this comment, I won't be moving out and my wife never brought it up again.

I sat and listened to my wife and she got very heated. At one point I thought she was going to cry. I was calm and maintained eye contact and took everything in. Afterwards, I excused myself, told her I needed to collect my thoughts and left the house with a pen and some paper. I did that and sat for about an hour thinking and writing. I went home when I felt I was done and my wife was waiting up for me.

I validated her concerns and she fell quiet. I started to leave the room and she asked "is that all?" I sat back down and we had a long discussion. We spoke about the issues she raised, my parenting style with my son, how she felt I controlled our relationship with my infidelity, how she never would have dated me if she didn't have "rose-coloured glasses" on at the beginning and how her gut feeling is more right than wrong.

A couple of things came up where I felt the need to explain or stand up for myself. They were:

- my son's asthma. The family friend told my wife that I was more concerned about D2 potentially having asthma than S6, which I did say. D2 exhibited wheezing a few nights ago and it was checked out and cleared. S6 has had some issues on and off but nothing that I am concerned about. I'm a lifelong asthmatic so I know what to look for. I was hospitalised several times as a child. My son was hospitalised two weeks after he was born with lung problems but he's never exhibited severe asthma in the whole time I've known my wife. Recently, he's had problems when he's active at school and I've discussed what to do with my son in those situations as well as having him take his medication before bed. I sensed that my wife thought I was sweeping it under the rug and treating one child (D2) more seriosuly/favourably than he other (S6);

- the car service. Since the car service discussion I brought up communication. My wife's communication has improved though I feel it's been out of spite. She said she felt I was being controlling by having everything written down. I felt this was unfair and explained to her my understanding of the same situation. I told her that she's divided finances, has been fiercely independent and that while I made funds available and she acknowledged this, she didn't explicitly commit to me that she would be using those funds (LFW interpreted the same as my wife). I told her that she had received wages, a new credit card and, what she told me, $1000 worth of shopping prior to the car service so my perception, between dividing finances, her independence and this apparent acquisition of money, that she was covering it herself. I told her that I am trying to communicate better and since my memory is terrible, I am having her write things down so I remember and if I don't, she can highlight it to me for future reference. I told her what I mentioned here the other night that whether we're married for 40-50 years or co-parenting for 15 years we will have a relationship and need to be able to communicate with one another;

- my son's speech. Family friend is a teacher and told my wife he may have a lisp. My son does not have a lisp. Prior to returning to school this year, my son was speaking normally. Since returning to school, my son speaks with a lisp half the time. I believe that one or more of my son's friends may be lazy with their speech and my son has picked up on this. I feel this way because half the time my son speaks perfectly and recently, since I've been pulling him up on it every time he does it, he has been correcting himself and speaks properly. My wife doesn't pay as much attention to my son's speech as I do so I asked her to listen more closely to it;

- disciplining my son. I've already started working on this. My wife brought it up anyway. The issue reared again because my son spoke with a lisp at family friend's place, paused, corrected himself and then broke down. Family friend asked why and my son told her that he's been put into time out when he speaks with a lisp. One problem... I've never put my son into time out for lazy speech. I have pulled him up on it every time he does it but I've not put him into time out for it. My son has learned that he can break down and people will listen to him... except for me. For some reason, I'm the only person who doesn't respond to his breaking down. I know I have my flaws however I know when my kids are lying and when they're telling the truth and my son lies a lot. We've started working on this and it's improving. He's getting away with it out of my care though. My son and I will be having a little chat about this tomorrow. I told my wife that we've never really discussed parenting and that if she felt I could do something better to let me know.

I felt tonight was a good conversation. I listened when my wife spoke, she listened when I spoke, she stood up for herself, I STFU and stood up for myself when I felt it was important to do so, I reiterated that our communication needs work and stated why and my wife got a lot off her chest. I did tell my wife that I don't want to upset her yet I still seem to be doing so. I told her that I am trying to improve certain things and they seem to be misinterpreted so I'm still having difficulty expressing myself. I felt that tonight was another "grow up and get your chit together" with parts of "I'm done".

Towards the end, LFW's words screamed loudly at me: be the changes you want to see. It was definitely a light bulb moment. ie. stop talking about it and start doing it. Communication between my wife and I definitely has to improve and I feel we're both aware of it and can start making some inroads. I saw some of what Mach had to say in that she has to let the anger our before she can heal. My wife tells me that she's starting to feel more like herself again. I can only go off her word.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2446664 04/18/14 11:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,033
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,033
B,

A serious question for you....Have you ever been tested for Autism, specifically Asperger's disorder? I am curious...My son has it and in my readings on him....You seem to show a lot of the characteristics. It isn't a bad thing, just a thing to be aware of.

- A sarcastic comment taken out of context....There isn't much to do on that one.

- Home gym....I like that you got it and your thinking behind why was well thought out. We have also talked about finances before and your wife's perception on that in accords with yours. Your talk reiterated our conversations....You might want to review your thinking on finances again....There is a difference between frugal and responsible.

- Cleaning....She expressed her feelings...Not a lot there. Basically you can't win type statement.

- Haircut...You like it and that is what matters. She is just pulling you down from your high...Basic stuff for the other spouse in our world.

-Moving out....Well played...You are learning from us LOL

Sounds like you did a fine job in the conversation. Listen, validate, express your thoughts...Well done. I like how you took ownership of your communication issues, explained (the writing) how you are trying to be better at it. Good stuff.

- Asthama...First I know you love S6 as much as the other kids, but beware that at times people might not see that. That isn't a you thing....That is other people things and a great time to validate with understanding. Know that you love him and that is what counts.

- Speech...First I am concerned for your son. My son has a lisp at times. Yes I do tell him to speak up and through it, but one thing I have caught on to. When he is having social problems at school the lisp becomes significantly worse. I suggest instead of punishing him for the lying, go another route. Talk with him about how the two of you can work together on his lisp. When he trusts you, the lying will stop.....but first he has to trust that you will listen without judgement.


"Be the changes you want to see in the world"
Lostforwords #2446945 04/19/14 07:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
Thanks LFW. I haven't thought of Asperger's or anything else for that matter. I figured I could just change who I am.

Today has got off to an unsavoury start. I woke at 4am to go to the toilet and noticed that my wife wasn't home again. This is the first time she hasn't returned home when the kids have been home though. I start work at 7am and I can't take the kids with me so I messaged my wife to let her know that I noticed she wasn't home and that I would be starting work soon. I am fighting like he!! not to mindread and she's texted back "I'll be back" 40 minutes later. We live in a place where there is nothing. It's not the kind of place you pull all nighters. Also, she was picked up so I have both cars and it's way too cold to be walking home and I can't go and pick her up so she'll have to get someone to drop her home. Now I have to go into trust mode, go about my morning as usual and go to work.

I feel that it's important to let her know my concerns about potentially having to take the kids to work because I don't know what her plans are, as well as her safety. I also feel that I should not confront her so as to not make her feel as though I'm prying. Honestly though, I can't be waking up at 5:30am expecting to go to work and not knowing if someone will be available to look after my kids.

I'll have all day to think about this but off the top of my head I'm thinking I'll express that I felt concerned about having to wake the kids up to take them to work and that I need to know she'll be there to look after the kids when I go to work. I'd like to express my concern for her safety. I don't think this will go over well and I should probably avoid it. Any thoughts?


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2447021 04/20/14 10:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
I feel a little mixed at the moment. My wife wound up coming home at 6:30am and I found out tonight that her friend had had some issues that my wife had helped her with by staying with her through the night. My wife was doing an honourable thing. I still felt strongly about not knowing whether my wife would be home or not and I spoke with her after the kids went to bed. I told her that she did an honourable thing by helping her friend and that I didn't know if she was going to be home to look after the kids or whether I had to take them to work. I told her I didn't need to know what she was doing, who she was with or where she was, only that I needed to know if she was going to be there to look after the kids when I went to work.

My wife is a great mother. She's never let my kids down. Those thoughts were strong in my mind this morning despite having to fight with my mind on other things. Deep down I thought she would be home. I don't like dealing with uncertainty though. Dealing with not knowing what she's doing is tough enough and I've accepted how it is and what I need to do to combat those thoughts. I felt that not knowing whether my wife would be home for the kids was a bit much. She felt I was intruding on her space and I get that. I didn't want to go there as I knew that it was encroaching on her space. I felt that needing to know that the kids would be taken care of outweighed her need for space and privacy.

I related the incident back to our issues with communication and she didn't like that. I told her that she asked me to tell her what I thought and felt and that while I have trouble articulating at times, I felt strongly about this issue and I brought it to her. She related my feelings back to her feelings about not knowing what I was doing on my computer when I cheated. She asked how it felt and I admitted that I had some personal stuff to deal with in that area and that I would. I reiterated to her that I need to know what is happening with the kids and that I felt very strongly about that. The conversation paused and I left the room.

I feel like an arsehole for invading her space. I feel I've done the right thing by myself by asking that I know she'll be there. She did say that I assumed she wouldn't be there and honestly, I didn't know so I had to think she would be there and plan for her not being there. It's not a thought process I want to deal with and I told her that. She's not happy with me right now. I'm getting used to that theme though. I really hope that we can get on the same page. We're so far apart at the moment and I know I'm only making things worse yet I feel that I need to build a solid foundation for myself and if we can set the ground rules now, things will get easier.

See how we go I guess.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2447151 04/21/14 11:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
Today was a decent day. Last night, my wife told me she was going out of town today and asked if I could come along to share the driving. It's probably a situation where I should have said no. I haven't been out of town for a while, my wife hasn't asked me to do anything with her and it was a chance to spend a full day with the kids outside the house so I went along.

The drive and day was pretty pleasant. There was a lot of quiet time, a lot of business and I wandered off a couple of times to do look at my own things when I wasn't interested in waiting for my wife. I told a couple of jokes through the day and she responded to one with an awkward, trying-not-to-laugh smirk and another she joined in on. We shared some conversation about the kids and upcoming events and I listened and responded accordingly. The only really awkward part was on the drive away from home when she mentioned about buying car seats for our daughters "so we didn't have to swap cars" rather than because they've outgrown the ones they're in, which is why she started shopping for car seats initially. I didn't respond to the divisiveness of the comment though I did tell my wife that we would need five car seats if we were to do this, three new ones for my car and two for hers to replace the ones my daughters have outgrown. I didn't tell her that I agreed with buying seats for my car. I figure I'd deal with that if and when the situation called for it.

We had some time to ourselves at one point and I apologised to her for assuming that she wouldn't be home yesterday morning. I told her she's never let the kids down and I shouldn't assume she'll start doing it. I reiterated that I need to know if she's going to be around rather than guessing she would be. She didn't respond as one of our kids came running over with a cut toe.

We shared some more pleasant conversation on the way home and that ran into a shared pizza while watching some TV. I left the room when I finished pizza to watch cartoons with the kids and on the way out I asked her to tally up my half of today's and last week's shopping so I can reimburse her. Initially she put the receipts on the bench and a while later, came back and added the figures up herself and presented them to me.

As my kids were going to bed, my son asked a question about a line trimmer my wife bought last week that she said was "a present for us". My son asked who's it was and my wife said it was hers. My son responded by asking "so you have one and Daddy has one?" and my wife said "no". I misinterpreted this as her telling my son that it was hers and not ours and I brought this up to her after the kids went to bed. I've observed my wife calling the master bedroom hers and the spare bedroom mine in front of the kids and I asked her to be more careful about language in front of the kids. She cited that the kids have been calling the main bedroom hers for much of the past 18 months as I've spent considerable time away from home and the kids haven't associated the master bedroom as being mine.

I mentally told myself to STFU and listen and I did just that. I asked a couple of questions to clarify her feelings and when I felt that I understood her, I apologised for challenging her on a misinterpretation. She got pretty steamy with me though there was no yelling. She went to bed straight after our discussion.

I don't know how I feel about this one. I did think there was something there so I brought it up. I feel that I understand her better now than I did prior to the conversation. She seems pretty pissed off at me about it though. I see it as a backward step yet I see it as building a better foundation for moving forward, both in understanding my wife and expressing my thoughts and feelings.

In other news, potential OM popped up again today. My wife made mention of him yesterday while talking to her sister. My wife told SIL that he was at the pub with her and and her friend on Saturday night. I was within earshot and my wife didn't become secretive when talking about him. My son mentioned today he was also at a BBQ yesterday with my wife, my kids and my wife's friend (same one at the pub Saturday) as well as her friends and parents. My wife told me in January that he was just a friend. To the best of my knowledge, my wife has only spent time with this guy in the presence of others (other friends and/or my kids) other than a couple of visits when he was moving house in December/January (when things were really bad between us and she "considered" dating/sleeping with other people and chose not to). She values her integrity highly and I believe her. She'd have to be the world's biggest hypocrite after what I've done to her if she were misleading me and I honestly believe she's being straight up with me. Integrity has been a strong theme in discussions between my wife and I.

I do feel uncomfortable with his presence though as I've never met him, he has met my children and he's spending time with my wife with (her) close friends and family without me. The BBQ is a biggie for me as I wasn't even told about it directly, it was just mentioned around me, while this guy has been invited and attended and his presence was brought up by my son and not my wife. I was at work so there's benefit of the doubt though I don't think he would have been there if I was. I don't know who he is, what his agenda is or what my wife's relationship with him is. I do worry about a potential EA (likely unrealised) although I still believe she is in an IA instead with everything she has told me about me. I know I can't bring anything up about him and even if there was something there, I can't do anything about it other than to look after myself. Right now, I am focused on trying to do things for me without further pissing off my wife.

My individual goal is to work on my PMA, understand what my wife and you guys are saying to me and put it into action and to be happy within my own skin. I do have a wife-related goal being to make it to July and my wife being comfortable enough to continue living here with me.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Mach1 #2447162 04/21/14 01:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
This is a REALLY long post so I apologise in advance.

Originally Posted By: Mach1
I wanted to go back and touch on this again...

Cause I feel as if this can be a good road-map for you..

Originally Posted By: Barrybran
I had a go at defining each quality. I did this relatively quickly but I did it when I was calm and relaxed and on my own rather than trying to force answers.


Think about it this way...

You already have all of your answers, you have just been asking the wrong questions....

What I see here, although they are a GOOD start, are more of a skillset than an ingrained quality...

Try chiseling down these things, and pinpoint where they fit into who you are at your core....


I finally had a go at each of these questions. Here goes.

Originally Posted By: Mach1

Originally Posted By: Barrybran

Reliable
- To me, someone who is reliable would be someone I can call upon to help me with things. They may not always be available but I know that when they aren’t, they have a genuine reason and they will endeavour to be available in the future.


This also ties into being loyal, faithful, and trustworthy. And since I noticed this three times on your list, what is it, that makes you focus so much on this quality ?

Is that something from the past ? Abandonment issues perhaps?

I cheated on my wife. When I was doing it, I was shocked that I was not only capable of doing it but willing to go through with it. I knew what I was doing, I knew it was against who I was at my core and yet I did it anyway. I also feel that I’m someone who is a “gunna” as in “I’m gunna do this” or “I’m gunna do that” and never follow through with it.

When it comes to work however, I follow through with it most of the time. I say most as I am very dedicated to my work and I understand that I’m there to do a job. I also understand that I work hard and sometimes I need to have a bit of downtime, even at work.

As for the abandonment issues, I don’t know. I’ve never felt that I’ve had every desired trait in one person though I understand now that different people will fill different needs for me and that’s OK. There have been times I’ve felt I’ve not been able to rely upon anyone and I’ve felt alone in the world and I don’t want others to feel that way.

Originally Posted By: Mach1

Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Good listener
- I feel a good listener is someone who makes eye contact, doesn’t look around the room and isn’t doing anything distracting such as fiddling with their fingers or playing with their phone. I feel that when someone is listening to you, you have a connection with them.


How have you GIVEN this in the past ??

How important is it for you to give, in order to receive this ??

Honestly, I’m not sure that I have given this in the past. I think I’ve always tried to fix peoples problems by adding my own two cents rather than being the wall that someone needs to talk to. As LFW has uncovered, I’ve always felt superior to others and I’ve treated most problems as solveable rather than taking a step back, listening and offering advice only if asked.

I don’t know that it is important to give it to receive it. I’m sure I’m going to find out though. LFW suggested changing the way I deal with my son and already it’s reaping benefits because I’m listening to him instead of forcing my way on him. In less than two weeks he’s opening up to me, telling me things I might be “mad” about (I’m not mad about them though I now understand why he would feel that way), and tonight, he even asked to do something with me instead of my wife which hasn’t happened in a very long time. I guess I feel that it’s important. I can’t honestly say that I know it’s important yet.


Originally Posted By: Mach1

Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Good communicator
- A good communicator to me is someone who is clear and concise, polite, uses the appropriate volume and tone of voice for the situation and most importantly, knows what they want to say.


Like I said above....are you able to give this ?

Are you clear and concise ? OR do you flounder around aimlessly without really making a decision ??

Are you able to remember details of every conversation ??

Are you a note taker ??

Try following this rule...

Listen without defending, and speak without offending

This also ties into being a good listener...

What quality would you say that ties these together ??

I don’t know that I’m able to give this yet. I would like to be able to be a good communicator though. It is important to me that I am understood when I speak and I am learning that 1) people aren’t willing to listen to me because I’m not willing to listen to them and 2) I have serious flaws in the way I express my thoughts and feelings.

I am not clear and concise as much I have felt I have been. I flounder with my words and I am even worse with my thoughts. I am the classic fence sitter and my wife even told me as recently as last week that I defer to her way too much on decisions.

I am not able to remember details of conversations as easily as I like. I am not a note taker and I forget things easily.

I would say the quality that ties the quote together is understanding.

Originally Posted By: Mach1

Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Faithful
- Someone who is faithful, to me, is someone who doesn’t cheat on someone important to them: a spouse, a friend, a family member.


I covered this above, and I want you to see that this may have been thrown in with a touch of anger, and superiority because of your current situation....


I do know that this is important, yet HOW important was this to you before the bomb ?

I’m not sure what you mean by being thrown in with a touch of anger and superiority. I feel that I have let my wife down in this way and I don’t want to let anyone down like this again. Faithfulness was incredibly important to me until just before I cheated on my wife. Things went bad, I felt unloved and I had just got married and it was a deeply philosophical time for me. My head was filled with questions such as “Why does my wife not love me?”, “Why do I put up with this?”, “Why should I put up with this?”, “Why should I remain faithful to my wife when she has no interest in being my wife?” It was an extremely testing period for me and I failed the test. I also understand two things now: 1) I didn’t have the tools that I have now and 2) I withdrew from my wife, not the other way round. I stopped showing her love and she responded by ceasing to show me love. I previously felt it was somewhat of an obligation in marriage that you entered it so it should be given and received. Now, I now understand that if you love, you love unconditionally and you appreciate it when it comes your way without expecting it to come again.

Originally Posted By: Mach1

Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Patient
- I feel someone who is patient is someone who can ride through a lot of nonsense and respond to a situation calmly, articulately, sensitively and fairly.


Again....what are you SHOWING in order to receive ???

I thought I was patient and I’ve discovered I’m not. Like the example earlier with my son, LFW challenged the way I dealt with him and it is showing dividends because I am taking a step back, listening to him, and letting him realise his own mistakes rather than jumping down his throat. My girls though are more of a challenge. I’m definitely working on being more patient and I’ve only out and out yelled at them once. I’m sure my blood pressure has increased though smile

Originally Posted By: Mach1

Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Trustworthy
- Someone who deserves the trust of another person. They can give their word to someone, is believed and their actions support their words.


Are YOU trustworthy ???

No I’m not. I cheated on my wife and as recently as two weeks ago my wife overheard me joking with my boss about something she felt very strongly about. I am trying to become more trustworthy and I am still learning how to do so. I’ve not been back to the main website that I abused since May last year and I cut contact with any women my wife felt uncomfortable with in October/November last year (too late by this stage). I am still learning what makes my wife tick and what makes her ticked off and adjusting my behaviour accordingly. I felt that being told off for doing too much housework was funny. She felt like I was taking something away from her and she was incredibly angry because I’d discussed the situation with a third party which is what lead to me cheating initially (not that I’d cheat with my boss, rather that I’d discussed our personal problems with someone other than my wife). It’s a work in progress.


Originally Posted By: Mach1
I know that this sounds crazy, yet when I say that I want to show the world certain things about myself, every day...

I don't have to elaborate about the finer points of things in order to acheive them...

I can say that I want to be Honorable, Loveable, Honest, Compassionate....

And every detail, is in those qualities...

No matter the situation....

Make more sense ????

It makes sense. I feel like I am a the beginning and I need to learn what each of these things mean to me, my wife, my son, etc. I honestly thought I was being asked to break these down the way I have and didn’t realise you meant it in general terms. I take things very literally. I don’t mind in this sense as it feels like goalsetting to me: determining what I want, prioritising it, determining how I am going to get there and defining what will signify progress to me. I can only hope to get to the same point as you. Right now, I feel I have to re-learn everything and put it into terms I understand.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2447191 04/21/14 03:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
Originally Posted By: Barrybran

When it comes to work however, I follow through with it most of the time. I say most as I am very dedicated to my work and I understand that I’m there to do a job. I also understand that I work hard and sometimes I need to have a bit of downtime, even at work.


So one might say that your actions are more of an obligation, and that is what drives you ???

Was your Marriage more of an obligation ?



Originally Posted By: Barrybran
I don’t know that it is important to give it to receive it. I’m sure I’m going to find out though. LFW suggested changing the way I deal with my son and already it’s reaping benefits because I’m listening to him instead of forcing my way on him. In less than two weeks he’s opening up to me, telling me things I might be “mad” about (I’m not mad about them though I now understand why he would feel that way), and tonight, he even asked to do something with me instead of my wife which hasn’t happened in a very long time. I guess I feel that it’s important. I can’t honestly say that I know it’s important yet.


The key here...is that YOU changed how you interact with him, because YOU wanted more out of the relationship...

So yes....you gave it, in order to receive it...





Originally Posted By: Barrybran

I don’t know that I’m able to give this yet. I would like to be able to be a good communicator though. It is important to me that I am understood when I speak and I am learning that 1) people aren’t willing to listen to me because I’m not willing to listen to them and 2) I have serious flaws in the way I express my thoughts and feelings.

I am not clear and concise as much I have felt I have been. I flounder with my words and I am even worse with my thoughts. I am the classic fence sitter and my wife even told me as recently as last week that I defer to her way too much on decisions.

I am not able to remember details of conversations as easily as I like. I am not a note taker and I forget things easily.

I would say the quality that ties the quote together is understanding.



So, if you were to take away the context of your recent conversations, and focus on the content, would you say that there is better communication now ? Or say, a month ago ???

You ARE changing Barry...little bit by little bit, and you aren't even realizing it.....


Originally Posted By: Barrybran

Originally Posted By: Mach1

Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Faithful
- Someone who is faithful, to me, is someone who doesn’t cheat on someone important to them: a spouse, a friend, a family member.


I covered this above, and I want you to see that this may have been thrown in with a touch of anger, and superiority because of your current situation....


I do know that this is important, yet HOW important was this to you before the bomb ?


I’m not sure what you mean by being thrown in with a touch of anger and superiority. I feel that I have let my wife down in this way and I don’t want to let anyone down like this again. Faithfulness was incredibly important to me until just before I cheated on my wife. Things went bad, I felt unloved and I had just got married and it was a deeply philosophical time for me. My head was filled with questions such as “Why does my wife not love me?”, “Why do I put up with this?”, “Why should I put up with this?”, “Why should I remain faithful to my wife when she has no interest in being my wife?” It was an extremely testing period for me and I failed the test. I also understand two things now: 1) I didn’t have the tools that I have now and 2) I withdrew from my wife, not the other way round. I stopped showing her love and she responded by ceasing to show me love. I previously felt it was somewhat of an obligation in marriage that you entered it so it should be given and received. Now, I now understand that if you love, you love unconditionally and you appreciate it when it comes your way without expecting it to come again.


You cheated, I get that.

You also found an excuse to cheat. And you also found a way to justify cheating to yourself. Yet you list that as one of your qualities.

Should you pay for that forever ???

Absolutely not....

Yet you really need to dig and find out why you cheated. Not just a superficial scratch on the surface. The real root cause of why you cheated.


Originally Posted By: Barrybran

I thought I was patient and I’ve discovered I’m not. Like the example earlier with my son, LFW challenged the way I dealt with him and it is showing dividends because I am taking a step back, listening to him, and letting him realise his own mistakes rather than jumping down his throat. My girls though are more of a challenge. I’m definitely working on being more patient and I’ve only out and out yelled at them once. I’m sure my blood pressure has increased though smile



I think that you are patient, with what YOU want to be patient with.

Little girls are just younger women in training....

Until you learn about Women, you will have trouble with Girls...

Have you read Mars/Venus ???



Originally Posted By: Barrybran

No I’m not. I cheated on my wife and as recently as two weeks ago my wife overheard me joking with my boss about something she felt very strongly about. I am trying to become more trustworthy and I am still learning how to do so. I’ve not been back to the main website that I abused since May last year and I cut contact with any women my wife felt uncomfortable with in October/November last year (too late by this stage). I am still learning what makes my wife tick and what makes her ticked off and adjusting my behaviour accordingly. I felt that being told off for doing too much housework was funny. She felt like I was taking something away from her and she was incredibly angry because I’d discussed the situation with a third party which is what lead to me cheating initially (not that I’d cheat with my boss, rather that I’d discussed our personal problems with someone other than my wife). It’s a work in progress.


I think that it is okay to do some minor tweaking here, yet you are giving her way too much power over what you want or do if you act simply in accordance to what SHE wants....

This is about you, and how YOU want to be. That is the main reason that she feels the way she does now.

Women don't want someone that they can push over.

Women want a strong man, that is capable of doing things on their own. They want to feel safe, and protected.

And that entirely different from being controlled...

Women want a partner to walk BESIDE them, not in front, or behind.....




Originally Posted By: Barry

It makes sense. I feel like I am a the beginning and I need to learn what each of these things mean to me, my wife, my son, etc. I honestly thought I was being asked to break these down the way I have and didn’t realise you meant it in general terms. I take things very literally. I don’t mind in this sense as it feels like goalsetting to me: determining what I want, prioritising it, determining how I am going to get there and defining what will signify progress to me. I can only hope to get to the same point as you. Right now, I feel I have to re-learn everything and put it into terms I understand.



Just like what I read from AKHope earlier (on Scorp's thread)

The trials of life will come at you from a distance away. It's not something that you want to focus on every single detail of things....

You look at the end goal of consistently being that person, and you ask yourself along the way, "How does this fit into what I am trying to accomplish? "

Mach1 #2447270 04/21/14 09:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
My wife told me this morning that she'd been thinking about the home gym last night. She said that she was angry about it because she had wanted a home gym for a long time and I said no and that now we're separated I go and buy one for myself. I told my wife that I don't recall this conversation and she responded by saying there were several conversations about it. I don't remember any of them. I told her that I understood why she was angry about it. I don't know what I can do about this other than putting a bit more thought into what I buy before I buy it. Honestly though, I bought the gym for myself and now that we're separated, I can only buy things for myself and the kids. If I truly live for myself, what my wife thinks won't come into what I buy. It's very confusing and I feel I have to continue to do what is right for me even if it alienates my wife. I wish there was a magic way to not alienate my wife with what I do.

She disappeared and came back and I told her that while I know I've pissed her off a lot lately, I aprpeciated that she told me her feelings. She responded a few minutes later by saying that she only tells me now because she feels resentment if she doesn't and she knows what she's like when she doesn't tell me. She went on to say that an in-house separation isn't working for her and she will be calling the real estate today to see how two houses will work. I told her I understand why she feels that was and that she can only do what she feels is right. I asked her, to cover all bases, to think about what I can do to make living in this house more comfortable if she chose to continue living here.

She still hasn't mentioned divorce and she mentioned about couples working it out by having space through separate houses. She said that there were couples who have figured it out after being separated while under one roof. She did say that they parted amicably though so I don't know whether she meant that the separation was amicable and that made it easier to live together while they worked things out or they just went their separate ways completely. My wife says that she needs more space and that I'm always here at home and that she doesn't feel we can work it out under one roof. The tone of the conversation didn't feel like a "working it out" one. It felt more like an "I need to get away from you" conversation.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2447361 04/22/14 11:54 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,375
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,375
Barry,

Your wife is beginning to feel the realities of her decisions and she isnt liking it. She is going to feel anger and resentment from watching you live for yourself but she will accuse you of not accepting things if you dont. It is simply part of the process.

Dont let it make you stray from your path.



"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
cat04 #2447363 04/22/14 12:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
She seemed pretty convincing that it was more about being hypocritical about money (controlling her then spending freely myself) than about me getting a life. Don't get me wrong, I'm still glad I bought it and I'll use it a lot. She just seems pretty pissed off that I would go and spend that kind of money on myself when I kept a pretty tight lid on spending while we were together.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Page 2 of 10 1 2 3 4 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard