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#2445832 04/15/14 01:29 PM
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My old thread is here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2440951&page=1

Originally Posted By: Lostforwords
The guys are giving it to you....and hopefully you are listening.

I'm going to be honest; I'm trying and clearly I don't know how. Short of just not saying anything and taking everything in I just don't know how at this point. I have three kids who are constantly needy or getting into mischief so not talking is not an option. I'm at a loss about what to do about this, really.

Originally Posted By: Lostforwords
As for the last few notes from your wife....Haven't you been being told the exact same stuff by us for the last three months?

It's exactly what you guys have been saying. It's like you guys and my wife have been sitting around a poker table discussing me. I reread my entire last thread and I don't understand why I'm not getting it. I think I get it, an entire thread passes, someone directs me to reread my thread and I find I'm not getting it.

Originally Posted By: Mach1
If you take the time to read back through this thread...

You will SEE the unanswered questions that YOU have been asked, to give YOU that same kind of road map....

I went back and reread it. I don't understand how I miss so much. There are a lot of unanswered questions. At this point I'm not sure if I'm supposed to go back and answer them or not but I do see a theme and it's about changes in myself. Two questions did stick out though:

Originally Posted By: ericmsant2
Originally Posted By: BarryBran
yes, I'm up for an experiment but I honestly don't feel as though I'm ready in terms of personal growth.

What exactly is personal growth for YOU BarryBran?

Quote:
Honeslty, I don't know who I want to be or where my focus should lie so I've focused on the things my wife has told me she doesn't like.

Stop for a sec and ask yourself this question……..

Would you want to be with someone who does not know who they want to be?

I don't know what personal growth is to me. When I first learned about goal setting I learned that goals should be measurable. I don't know how to measure my growth. This is what lead me to ask my wife if she felt listened to this morning. It wasn't about her, it was about me. I don't feel that I am able to judge my own performance effectively and I don't know how I am going to be able to determine my own growth or lack thereof.

The second part, I don't honestly know the answer to that question. The closest I've come to an answer would be from a situation while my wife and I weren't together in 2011. We had broken up, I'd moved on and I started seeing a girl who was much younger than I was. She was a lot of fun to be around but something wasn't quite right. She was needy, she could barely hold a job, she lived with her parents and I felt that she was too submissive. Typing this, I'm seeing I am the same person to my wife.

The truth is I've never known who I wanted to be. I've never had a desired career in mind. I've never had a desired location in mind. The only things I wanted for sure were a family of my own and to be financially free. I've stuffed up the first and I live week-to-week.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2445850 04/15/14 02:18 PM
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Posting this here too....


I wanted to go back and touch on this again...

Cause I feel as if this can be a good road-map for you..

Originally Posted By: Barrybran
I had a go at defining each quality. I did this relatively quickly but I did it when I was calm and relaxed and on my own rather than trying to force answers.


Think about it this way...

You already have all of your answers, you have just been asking the wrong questions....

What I see here, although they are a GOOD start, are more of a skillset than an ingrained quality...

Try chiseling down these things, and pinpoint where they fit into who you are at your core....



Originally Posted By: Barrybran

Reliable
- To me, someone who is reliable would be someone I can call upon to help me with things. They may not always be available but I know that when they aren’t, they have a genuine reason and they will endeavour to be available in the future.


This also ties into being loyal, faithful, and trustworthy. And since I noticed this three times on your list, what is it, that makes you focus so much on this quality ?

Is that something from the past ? Abandonment issues perhaps?

And to give you a little bit of a nudge here....

I would say that the quality in all of these, would be that you are an Honorable man, and a man of great integrity...

So for your list of qualities...

I would just say

Honorable



Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Good listener
- I feel a good listener is someone who makes eye contact, doesn’t look around the room and isn’t doing anything distracting such as fiddling with their fingers or playing with their phone. I feel that when someone is listening to you, you have a connection with them.


How have you GIVEN this in the past ??

How important is it for you to give, in order to receive this ??


Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Good communicator
- A good communicator to me is someone who is clear and concise, polite, uses the appropriate volume and tone of voice for the situation and most importantly, knows what they want to say.


Like I said above....are you able to give this ?

Are you clear and concise ? OR do you flounder around aimlessly without really making a decision ??

Are you able to remember details of every conversation ??

Are you a note taker ??

Try following this rule...

Listen without defending, and speak without offending

This also ties into being a good listener...

What quality would you say that ties these together ??



Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Faithful
- Someone who is faithful, to me, is someone who doesn’t cheat on someone important to them: a spouse, a friend, a family member.


I covered this above, and I want you to see that this may have been thrown in with a touch of anger, and superiority because of your current situation....


I do know that this is important, yet HOW important was this to you before the bomb ?


Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Patient
- I feel someone who is patient is someone who can ride through a lot of nonsense and respond to a situation calmly, articulately, sensitively and fairly.


Again....what are you SHOWING in order to receive ???


Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Trustworthy
- Someone who deserves the trust of another person. They can give their word to someone, is believed and their actions support their words.


Are YOU trustworthy ???


Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Fair
- Someone who weighs up a situation and delivers an outcome that is beneficial to all parties while achieving specific goals.



Fair can mean a lot of things...

Life ISN'T fair Barry, never was, never will be.

Fairness is something that we can only give and hope to get back.


Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Loyal
- Someone who is loyal is someone who fights for and defends their friends and family and remains faithful to them.


See above


Originally Posted By: Barrybran
Calm
- I feel that someone who is calm is someone who does not allow themselves to be easily excited or aroused in a stressful situation and can exercise patience where required.


Calmness doesn't always mean passive...

You can be calm and still lead the way...

It also doesn't mean that there is no passion either.

Showing the cracks in your armor is sometimes a good thing. It is how you handle those situations that will make a difference in your life, and interactions.

You can be the calmest guy in the world and still get frazzled by things...

It is from that point forward that matters....



I know that this sounds crazy, yet when I say that I want to show the world certain things about myself, every day...

I don't have to elaborate about the finer points of things in order to acheive them...

I can say that I want to be Honorable, Loveable, Honest, Compassionate....

And every detail, is in those qualities...

No matter the situation....

Make more sense ????

Mach1 #2445955 04/15/14 08:16 PM
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I'm going to take some time to ponder what you have all written. I feel like I'm on the edge of a breakthrough and you guys can see something I can't just yet. Something did pop out though that also popped out when I was reading The Way of the Superior Man:

Originally Posted By: Mach1
Try chiseling down these things, and pinpoint where they fit into who you are at your core....


I don't feel I know who I am at my core. TWOTSM spoke repeatedly of acting and loving from the core. If I don't know who or what my core is, either I can't act from it or if I can, I don't know that I am doing so from my core and risk doing so from both my core and other centres around the body.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2445956 04/15/14 08:24 PM
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While I'm working on this list, if my wife says something I know I need to listen. Should I try to respond appropriate to the situation or, because I seem to have no idea how to communicate right now, should I just not say a word? If she asks for a response to something do I try to respond or respectfully tell her that I don't know what the he11 I'm doing when I talk (in different words of course) and come back to it later?


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2446052 04/16/14 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: Barrybran
While I'm working on this list, if my wife says something I know I need to listen. Should I try to respond appropriate to the situation or, because I seem to have no idea how to communicate right now, should I just not say a word? If she asks for a response to something do I try to respond or respectfully tell her that I don't know what the he11 I'm doing when I talk (in different words of course) and come back to it later?


I think that this has been laid out pretty clearly by her...

Originally Posted By: Barry's spouse
We can set CLEAR concise boundaries. That way neither of us ASSUMES anything ever again.
All bills regarding household/cars etc will be split down the middle.
Anything regarding the kids will be done the same way.


You discuss anything that falls within the realm of that ^^^^

Anything else ??

You LISTEN and STFU. Validate when necessary, and don't make it more than it is....

If it is something that you are uncomfortable discussing, then excuse yourself from the conversation....

I.E. = I am not prepared to discuss this now, and I would like time to collect my thoughts before I respond...


PS....I would also scratch the word "cars" off of that list...

Independence doesn't include having someone else pay for car maintenance for you....KWIM ?

Barrybran #2446055 04/16/14 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: Barrybran
I'm going to take some time to ponder what you have all written. I feel like I'm on the edge of a breakthrough and you guys can see something I can't just yet. Something did pop out though that also popped out when I was reading The Way of the Superior Man:

Originally Posted By: Mach1
Try chiseling down these things, and pinpoint where they fit into who you are at your core....


I don't feel I know who I am at my core. TWOTSM spoke repeatedly of acting and loving from the core. If I don't know who or what my core is, either I can't act from it or if I can, I don't know that I am doing so from my core and risk doing so from both my core and other centres around the body.


I think that you may be overthinking this a bit too...

This isn't going to come to you in this great epiphany, and this bright shining light leading the way.

It is the little things that take time to work through, and if done correctly ?

It is a lifelong process of self-evaluation, and tweaking.

There will be victory, and there will be defeat.

Through victory, you will gain confidence, and empowerment...

Through defeat, you will gain insight into what you don't want, and it will humble you.

It will also motivate you to change the things about yourself that you do not like, or want....


Mistakes are only fatal if you learn nothing from them. Mistakes are the way that we learn a better way through life.

Going through life is what teaches us our lessons.

Just live your life, and define YOURSELF as you go...

Cause nobody gets to define who you are...except you...

Mach1 #2446059 04/16/14 12:23 PM
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Looks like I'll be doing a lot of pondering tomorrow. Thanks. Just quickly though, the cars are included because we have kids in car seats and only one set of seats. The seats don't all fit in my car so whoever has to move the kids uses my wife's car and the other will use my car. I have no problem paying half of her vehicle maintenance because I'm using half of the vehicle and vice versa.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2446070 04/16/14 01:32 PM
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B,

Mach is hitting you with good stuff.....One thing I want to mention though. Life change...Perception change....Really isn't about goals or deadlines. The reality is there is only one true goal to change and that is to start changing...embrace change!

It is like a boulder at the top of an endless mountain....Once the boulder starts to roll, it just keeps on rolling. Never stopping....Just continuously moving forward until you reach the bottom of the mountain (of course the mountain is life and the bottom of it...well that is the end and a whole different conversation lol). It is a day by day thing...The little things adding up to a better you.

As for the cars...While I do see your point, I agree with Mach. In the bigger picture of true independence, her car is hers to take care of. Your car is yours. I often share vehicles with a neighbor....while we do fill up the gas tanks, neither of us would ask for or pay for big repairs etc. So would you pay for a friend to have their car repairs done?

And yes....that in itself is accepting the big picture for you.


"Be the changes you want to see in the world"
Lostforwords #2446193 04/16/14 11:14 PM
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I just found a really cool quote:

"If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse."

It definitely fits me and I'll have to be more aware of where I'm finding reason and making excuses.


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Barrybran #2446292 04/17/14 04:38 AM
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I've had a pretty good day so far. It's been a bit of a "me" day. I woke before my wife went to work but didn't get out of bed until after she left. We didn't have the kids today so I could afford a lie in before getting my day started. My home gym was due to arrive today and I had a list of things I wanted to do.

That quickly fell apart as my home gym was delivered to a location in town and being 180kg (~400lb) I couldn't just go and pick it up. My wife's friend's partner works at the place it was dropped off and offered to put it on the back of his ute and bring it round for me. A short while later, one of the girls from work asked if I could do her shift tonight as she has tonsilitis so I agreed and went about organising having the kids looked after. On top of that, I was expecting a phone call from my boss to go down to the store as we had an inspection today and she wanted me to meet the inspector.

So I waited... the guy with my home gym hadn't shown up, I couldn't get hold of the family friend who had our kids and my boss didn't call. An hour and a half had passed and I felt that I needed to get things organised as I'd committed to go to work. I went into town and Murphy's Law kicked into place. The family friend called me back and agreed to look after the kids until my wife got home. The guy who was bringing my home gym to my place got his ute loaded and came around. That left my boss. As it was approaching lunch time, I figured she was busy (it's school holidays here) and went on with my day.

As part of my original plan for today, I decided to get a haircut as it was getting quite messy. I wanted a new look and with visible signs of receding hair and my new home gym I did some research and one person's image kept popping up... Jason Statham! He's not the best actor but he's in some good films and he's a good looking guy for a balding guy. I'd admired his image several years ago and it was an image I wanted to emulate in the future if I ever got off my butt and worked out. Well, now the hair is going and I've got my home gym. I went to the barber and asked for a #3. He took a step back and was impressed. He's in his 50's, bald himself and he's been the town barber for three decades I believe. He's done my hair since I've been in town and it's the first time I've asked for a buzz cut. I got it and I must say, I like it! It's actually a little too long to be honest.

I had a bit of time up my sleeve and went to the nursery to find flowers for the garden I'm working on. The lady helped me with some ideas so now I have some research to do. I came home and got ready for work. I spiced things up a bit by shaping up my facial hair for the beginnings of a stubble beard... my facial hair is patchy though so it's more like a chinstrap with moustache and flavour-savour. I'm happy with it though. I sprayed on some cologne and donned the lime green work shirt I have instead of the black everyone else and I usually go for. I'm feeling pretty good about myself today.

So I'll be heading to work in 10 minutes and earning five hours worth of money I didn't previous have. I haven't done any cleaning today so hopefully my wife doesn't freak out. I can do it tonight though. My kids won't get to see me until tomorrow afternoon and then they're off again for the weekend so I'll spend a couple of hours playing with them after work before setting up my gym and working out with it for the first time.

Oh, and half of town will see my new haircut before my wife does... mwahahahaha :p


Me: 31, W: 29
T: 4 M: 2
Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3)
Separated, still living together: Nov 2013
Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014
W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
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