You both seem to be well respected members of the forum based on my reading of the various threads over the last few weeks. But I seem to be getting slightly conflicting advice and was hoping I could get some clarity. Sandi, you are telling me to stick strictly to LRT which makes senses to a large degree although I'm pretty bad at it so far and keep making schoolboy errors. Mr Bond, you are saying similar things but on the Easter outing are advising me to go. I want to give my marriage every chance of working, I really do, I am just unsure of how I should proceed. Any help would be greatly appreciated
That's still CONTROL on your part. You can't control what she does which, in effect, will affect your kids. Essentially you're saying that you're going to hold the kids hostage if you feel that she's doing something that YOU don't feel is right.
That was one of the things that drove her away in the first place. I'm not saying to not establish rules, but you can compromise with her on that.
"Mr Bond, you are saying similar things but on the Easter outing are advising me to go."
You had already invited her so there's no sense to go back on that. Since you're going out, you might as well make it the best experience you can and slowly introduce her to the new and improved you.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
You will get confusing, conflicting advise telling you that these are for you, not to "manipulate" or whatever.
It says right in the DR book to do 180's, GAL and "be mysterious." Then check WAS reactions, if any, to your changes. Then, keep doing what works, stop what doesn't work.
So, yeah…these things kinda are for WAS benefit as well as your own.
I think a good 180 would be to cancel the Easter thing.
"You had already invited her so there's no sense to go back on that. Since you're going out, you might as well make it the best experience you can and slowly introduce her to the new and improved you."
I say Bingo to that statement by Mr. Bond. I wouldn't back out at this point. Just have a decent holiday without ANY expectations, arguments, pressure, relationship discussions, anything like that. Keep it strictly parental. Be civil with each other and make the day about the kids.
Right now I'll bet this seems like it will be the longest week of your life waiting for Easter and waiting to see how well you cope during the holiday. But take a step back and realize, that, this time next week, Easter will be over and you will be able to continue learning how to DB without the pressure of getting through the holiday. Metaphorically, this Easter is a 5 second clip of a 3.5 hour movie. Don't put any stock into it if you have a respectable day with her, just hold your head up high because you're attempting to show your kids a nice Easter.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
I didn't invite her she was the one who suggested we do something over the easter break together. I hadn't made a decision until after last Sunday and our day out. based on that I then thought it would be ok as it had been a very good day and I was more relaxed about doing it again. it is about the boys as I know they need both of us at the moment. I will be taking them away abroad for two weeks in June for what was to be our dream holiday and unless things take a major change she won't be going. I know this bothers her and maybe she is trying to show that we can spend time together. I still think theres more to it though
Things are getting weirder and weirder. From someone who wanted to spend no time in my company a few weeks ago this is on the agenda over the coming week.
Wed night: She has asked to come to MC with me, I haven't asked her why as we haven't had any R discussion at all for a few weeks.
Easter Sunday: She will have the boys Sat night thru to Sunday.I asked her what her plans were for the rest of Sunday, she said she had none. I said I was planning a Easter dinner for me and the boys and she was welcome to join us ( she has refused invites like this dozens of times) she accepted straight away.
Easter Monday: We will have a full day together with the boys.
Easter Tuesday: We will do something again with the boys.
Now this is a total shift from her. I have been quite disciplined in the last week or so by asking her nothing and being calm and pleasant around her. I have also only responded to her calls or texts, I have intiated nothing. Now I don't know or even think she is changing her position in any way but it's definitely a change in attitude in some way. I'm waiting for the volatility to return any moment though..
So how did it change so quickly from just one day together to several? I thought the whole point was to make yourself not so dependent on her? Or at least that's how it sounded yesterday.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
That was the plan, I asked what she wanted to do on our planned day together. She started going thru each day and made suggestions. I am baffled by her behaviour as she is normally avoiding contact but now seems to be actively encouraging it. She seems keen to spend a lot of time with us when before it was the opposite. Just not sure how to approach it but focusing on the boys seems the best approach. She asked me if I had decided about Sat nite but I said I was going out. She just said ok and that was that.
Andy, I'm not up to date on your sitch, but I can tell you that my WAW went through the same thing. We had barely any contact Oct- Dec, then come Jan she started to make plans to do things as a family almost every weekend. I took that as a positive sign, only to discover she was cake eating while her R with OM heated up. I don't say this to discourage you, just would encourage you to go slow with it regardless of her intentions.
Take a hard look at your real motivations. Is Easter really about the boys or is there more to it? If Easter is truly about the boys, then make it about the boys and stop wondering what it will do to your wife or your marriage. If there is more to it, accept that no matter what happens, its not likely to cause any drastic changes in your situation either way.
WAS's need to lose something before they reconsider - especially when an affair is involved. You are not letting her feel the loss that her decisions will ultimately result in.
Me:38 W:39 No Children BD: 5/13 EA/PA Confirmed: 7/13 W Moved out 12/13
You will get confusing, conflicting advise telling you that these are for you, not to "manipulate" or whatever.
It says right in the DR book to do 180's, GAL and "be mysterious." Then check WAS reactions, if any, to your changes. Then, keep doing what works, stop what doesn't work.
So, yeah…these things kinda are for WAS benefit as well as your own.
I think a good 180 would be to cancel the Easter thing.
I think you have to be a little careful with this train of thought. Yes, you are hoping that the changes cause the WAS to reconsider. However, since you have no control over that, if you approach these changes with that goal in mind, there is a change you will fail. If you make the changes you want for yourself, you cannot fail.
With respect to changing to what works and stop doing what doesn't - you have to stay true to yourself with these changes. If you can't live your changes because they aren't really you but were just done to lure the WAS back, there is a pretty good chance you will ultimately revert and be right back in the same position.
Me:38 W:39 No Children BD: 5/13 EA/PA Confirmed: 7/13 W Moved out 12/13
Ok here is my thinking on things as it stands. If I'm honest I am very wary of her motivations but I still crave her company. I do believe that much of this is about her not wanting to be alone over Easter. And my acceptance of it is based on me struggling to properly detach especially now and because Easter has always been a special time for us as a family. I am going to try my best to demonstrate to her what she may be losing by ending this marriage. I intend to subtly show her how much I have changed as a person but fully accept that it may make no difference. I can only go on my gut instinct on things and right now it says I should see how this goes. I have really began to trust my gut lately even though I haven't always acted in accordance with it. She really does seem diferent at the moment and I want to see where this goes although I fully accept that it will probably go back to normal after the Easter break. I am going to MC with her tomorrow night but intend to say very little as I just want to listen. I think it's time I start trying to understand exactly why she left and for me to do that I really need to start listening and trying accept my faults in all of this.
"I think it's time I start trying to understand exactly why she left and for me to do that I really need to start listening and trying accept my faults in all of this."
This is what you should have been doing since Day 1.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
'This is what you should have been doing since Day 1.'
So do you mean the Day 1 when we stood in our kitchen and she blew my world apart by admitting she was sleeping with a 24 year old guy. The Day 1 when she said she couldn't give it up and that I was never meant to find out. The Day 1 when she made it clear the only way forward was for me to accept the affair until he was gone in two weeks and then we could start looking at our marriage and working on things? The Day 1 when he eventually left after two weeks when I knew she was sleeping with him but had to accept it or lose everything but thought, ok maybe now we can start again. The Day 1 when I asked her for the 3rd time since she promised to end contact why she had called him again. The Day 1 when she said she needed to 'find herself'and was moving out despite promising to work at things together once he was gone. The Day 1 when she suggested I take over full time care of the boys and she started dating other guys ( after only having left 3 weeks previous)
I hope you see my point. I only joined the forum at the end of March and there has been so many very painful things that had happened before I did. I have been in hell and it's only now that I am able to start thinking clearly by reading and learning and trying to truly understand what caused this. During that time I have begun to realise that I had a huge part to play in it. I am willing to shoulder whatever blame is thrust on me for how we got here as I sure there is lots. But please don't tell me that I should have known this from Day 1. You have no idea how much she has done in between that I haven't even mentioned on here as it happened before I joined. I get your 'tough love' approach but I think yoiu need to see the whole picture before passing judgement.
Yes I do and it's a childish point. For someone who claims to be intellectually superior to his spouse, you haven't been acting that way.
I said that you "should have been doing that since Day 1" which refers to the idea that you should have tried understanding 'why' and 'what caused your situation' since that time. Plus you should know that what I said was merely a figure of speech and not literal Day 1.
"During that time I have begun to realise that I had a huge part to play in it. I am willing to shoulder whatever blame is thrust on me for how we got here as I sure there is lots."
That is what I was referring to.
"But please don't tell me that I should have known this from Day 1."
Again, that's not what I said. Go back and read it again in case you missed it.
"You have no idea how much she has done in between that I haven't even mentioned on here as it happened before I joined."
You don't need to. I and others have been there and done that. We get it.
"I get your 'tough love' approach but I think you need to see the whole picture before passing judgement."
This is a laughable statement. In fact, what happened in my situation makes yours seem minor in comparison. I don't preach "tough love". I was merely pointing out that in the beginning you refused to take any responsibility for your current situation. All I did was repeat and bring out issues that your W probably mentioned to you before. No tough love there. It was just pointing out what you didn't or didn't want to see.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Admittedly I probably did misinterpret what you meant by Day 1 but it has been very tough for me. I don't know your stitch so I can't compare and I guess if you were able to save your marriage I should listen. There is a lot of confusion in my head right now and I move from despair to anger in a very short space of time and find it hard to rationalise things sometimes. Hopefully I can follow the advice on here and get my life to become normal again. I really miss normality.
So can I ask Is it advisable to go on these outings with my wife, considering it would be difficult to back out now How should I play it? Also in MC tonight is my plan to just listen the best course?
She seems to think I am going to drag up all of her indescretions and all that she has done to hurt me over the past few months. But I fully intend to say something along these lines, when asked.
'I accept everything that has happened did so because you were unhappy in our marriage. I didn't realise things then that I really should have and obviously you had been unhappy for a long time. All I can do is apologise for not doing enough to look after your needs in the way I should have. I realise now that there were so many things I paid no attention to when I should have. I can't change what has happened in the past and that saddens me. All I can do is continue to be the best Dad I can be for our boys and I hope you find happiness in your life'
Does that sound too weak or forgiving? Any advice on what I might or should say would be appreciated.
'I accept everything that has happened did so because you were unhappy in our marriage.
Do you trully accept that? Are you being honest here or you just want her to see your changes?
I didn't realise things then that I really should have and obviously you had been unhappy for a long time.
Life its a learning experience, are you working on those issues?
All I can do is apologise for not doing enough to look after your needs in the way I should have. I realise now that there were so many things I paid no attention to when I should have. I can't change what has happened in the past and that saddens me.
Why would that sadden you? How could you be a better you if you didnt experience all this?
All I can do is continue to be the best Dad I can be for our boys and I hope you find happiness in your life'
I dont think you should say so many words, more actions will be better.
Does that sound too weak or forgiving? How do you think it sounds? If you bring up those 2 words, maybe its because you identify them in that text...
Any advice on what I might or should say would be appreciated.
What has been done its past, if you are gentle with yourself you will be able to accept that, everybody does "mistakes" including her...
What about: I understand how you felt in the M, and I am sorry you felt that way. I apologize for the issues that arise and how I contributed to. Let me know how can I help you with all this situation and if there is something that I could do for you.
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
I do accept what I did to create the situation in our marriage. She hasn't really spoken to me about exactly what her issues were except for the gambling a few years back and my age. I can do nothing about my age except try and look after myself which I am doing now in a big way. Some friends have suggested that if age is an issue for her it would have been anyway no matter what, I've no idea? I am really trying to focus on what I need to change because I need to not because I want her back ( even though I hope that is a knock on effect) Part of me is unsure right now what sort of relationship we could have now as so much has happened. I still really do love her but things would need to change on both sides for us to ever get back together.
MC is over I said something along the lines of what I had planned. Her response was that she was relieved that I felt like that. She said her aim in the MC was too see us come through all of this sane and happy. I probably said more after that than I had intended, the counsellor was asking questions etc and I was answering honestly but it seemed that the blame for all of this was being placed squarely at my door. I continued to accept responsibility, because of the gambling,not focusing on her needs, neglecting areas that I should have focused on etc. She was happy to let me do this and it seemed that all of this was totally my fault. Eventually the counsellor asked how I felt about what had been discussed so far. I reaffirmed again my responsiblity in contributing things but said I felt frustrated that it seemed that all of this was totally my responsiblity and there seemed to be no acceptance from her about her role in this. She said that she accepted that she had done wrong but that she wouldn't have had she been happy. 'I wasn't unhappy' she said ' its just that I wasn't really really happy, our lives were routine and boring' I asked why she had never discussed any of this with me and she shrugged and had no real explanation. He then asked each of us how we saw things going forward I said that I accepted that she no longer wanted to be in the marriage and I was moving on with my life. I said I hoped she could eventually find what she was looking for with or without me. She immediately picked up on this saying, 'why are you saying with or without? Its definitely without so please don't hold out any hope' I can't say right for saying wrong obviously.
I have now decided to use the Easter break as a last time together weekend. It's obvious she is only suggesting things together because otherwise she would be on her own. I will make it the best weekend I can for the boys and make every effort to be relaxed around her. After that I am going into full LRT mode, I am tired of her games and cake eating and I really need to move on now. I am wondering should I tell her at the end of our days together that it is the last time for it or should I just get on with doing it?
IMO - even if you back up the saying with the doing, it still comes across as planned and therefore a tactic. If you just 'do' it comes across as more natural, more mysterious and more genuine.
Me:38 W:39 No Children BD: 5/13 EA/PA Confirmed: 7/13 W Moved out 12/13
One of the areas of difficulty for me in LRT is detachment. I am slowly beginning to do that but it is very difficult as I have been completely in love with her for 13 years and never imagined that we would ever split. My brain is slowly but surely beginning to accept that it has happened and that I have to detach to get through this properly. She is still in my thoughts almost every minute of every day so its hard. Any guidance on detachment would be gratefully accepted
Andyk the best way to detach its time, and GAl. Now she is in your mind every minute, evenctually she will not.
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
AndyK, my attitude is that to show my love and respect for my W, I will leave her alone and give her the time and space she needs. I cannot help her with her journey. And because I love her I will only contact her once a day to ask how the kids are. No contact or talk about us unless she initiates it.
Does my example make sense? I know it is hard and takes more practice than anything else you have probably tried. There is no quick fix, you have to work at it constantly or it will never come.
Also read the Livestrong article on lovingly detaching. Google it and read it. I printed it out and found it helpful to carry with me in times when I need to remind myself of my ultimate goal and what it takes to get there.
This is possible, but only through hard work.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
The hardest part of all of this now is that she really seems serious that our marriage is over. If I even show anyting that suggeste the contrary she jumps on it and makes it clear. I suppose I really have to GAL and let her go, so unneccesary as we had a good life and as she said last night, she wasn't really unhappy. So pointless...
Her mood hasn't changed at all Sandi she seems to feel exactly the same but my counsellor has agreed to see her on her own for a few weeks at her request. she did say something at the end of our session which was interesting. When we were both asked about how we felt I said my bit and then she said the following. 'I am neither happier or less happy since we split. Sometimes I sit in my apartment alone and think, this is s..t, other times I am calm and serene. But my head is all over the place and I dont know what I'm thinking sometimes' so at least its clear she is not herself, she was normally a very determined, organised and self disciplined girl who knew exactly what she was doing. I don't know whether that girl wil ever return. We are still doing something over easter but I am using it as a last trip for us as a family. After that I am going full LRT, its the only thing left for me.
I was pretty much the fall guy. I was only when I voiced my frustration about nothing coming back from her that it even came up. She said she regretted the way things happened and that she would have done things differently. She stated that it fizzled out with him weeks ago and that he was no longer a factor. Still no remorse or proper aplogy, just using my faults to try and justify why she strayed.
Again one of her friends approached me today. She expressed her concern for my W and said she it seemed that my W was distancing herself from a lot of her friends and was really worried about her state of mind, especially with her indifference with the boys. She met my wife the other night and said felt that she didn't even recognise her and that she seemed to be behaving quite erratically. She asked me how I was coping and I said that I was moving on with my life as my W had made it clear it was over, this really shocked her as she said she saw none of this coming ever.
Remorsefulness isn't an automatic when the A ends. I remember telling my H something similar to what your W said, which didn't mean a thing to him b/c he could tell I was not sorry about my involvement with OM. It took me a really long time before I could tell him I was sorry.....and I was actually praying that I would feel remorseful b/c I knew it was necessary in order to get back to being "me" again. I couldn't get my heart right with the Lord or get my feelings back for my H until I was sorry for what I had done. That may sound strange to some people, but that is my personal belief.
I only tell you this b/c I have wondered how long a person could go feeling no remorse.... when they didn't have the guidance/support (DB Board) that was given to me. If they continue to live their wayward lifestyle and don't wish to R the M, they will be looking for the next A.
Piecing is hard, and I don't know how it is even possible if the WAS is not remorseful and the LBS is not forgiving. That is not to say that some WAW's who have been in an A won't agree to go back to the LBH. And many men are so focused on just getting the W back, they overlook the fact she does not feel sorry for cheating on him.
I hope this C can help your W.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
"Still no remorse or proper aplogy, just using my faults to try and justify why she strayed."
Don't hold your breath for this. Remember, she said the M is done so she doesn't have anything to apologize for. Don't hold onto that. Instead concentrate on creating a positive atmosphere.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
To be honest Sandi I have forgiven her for her A. I am struggling more with how strange and distant she has become since all of this started. I really miss the girl I was in love with, I don't even really like who she is now as she is not my wife. I don't need or expect an apology for me to accept her back but I can only get back with the real her and not this alien she has become. I realise that may never happen, hopefully C will help her but it may help her decide completely that there is no way back. She has admitted she is confused etc so I know she needs this but I can no longer help her or worry for her as I have myself and my boys to worry about. I will give our family the best Easter weekend ever, then it is over for me and she can get on with 'finding herself'. I will get on with my life the best I can and hopefully time will heal my pain.
"I don't need or expect an apology for me to accept her back but I can only get back with the real her and not this alien she has become."
You still don't get it. Part of the reason she did what she did and who she is as a person now is due to how you treated her before. All the wishing that she see a C, or whatever isn't going to do any good if you're the same.
If you truly say you've changed, this has to include you understanding your role in getting her to what she's doing and not expecting her to change because you want her to.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
It is natural to question your ability to follow through on divorce busting strategies on your own. In order to gain clarity and control of this situation, I strongly urge you to seek the help of a Divorce Busting Coach. Using the Last Resort Technique with the help of a coach can make a huge difference in the process. I am happy to discuss our coaching program. Call me at 303-444-7004
Roberta, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 Roberta@divorcebusting.com
I really do get it I spent most of MC explaining and acknowledging my role in this and accepting that I had caused her to be unhappy. But there are so many things that she has done since we split that were totally unneccesary and completely out of character. Such as her completely distancing herself from our boys and messing around with married guys and many things I haven't even mentioned. I know I can have no say over what she does and I intend to detach from now on but my contribution to the breakdown is now on record and I have accepted it totally. I am just saying that none of it explains her erratic behaviour, especially regarding our sons,they are blameless so while she might be fully expected to exclude and break from me she should still want to be a mum to them. I can only say that it isn't just me who sees the strange behaviour in her, it is lots of other people including her friends who are increasingly concerned for her. I know it appears that I have been some sort of control freak in all of this but that really isn't the case, I have been completely emasculated in all of this as she has totally called the shots in our marriage for years. She decided where we went on holiday, what we spent money on and so many other aspects of our lives. I agreed and went along because I loved her and believed thats what loving husbands did. I had my faults, lots of them, but the bottom line is that she decided ( she has made this clear) that all of a sudden she began to dislike the fact that I was 50 and so much older than her. This guy was younger, more attractive and when she started working fulltime, always there and she fell for him. Only after that and when the damage was done did she begin to question everything and decide it must be that she was unhappy. She has already said she wasn't really unhappy but not really really happy. But marriages need work and she has made no effort to address any of our issues. I am prepared to do whatever it takes to fix things, including examining myself and changing everything I need to so that I can be a better husband. I am going to do it anyway, with or without her.
"...that were totally unneccesary and completely out of character."
You're still not getting it. It was necessary TO HER. She felt that she had to do what she did for whatever reason. It's not up to you to decide what she should or needs to do.
"Such as her completely distancing herself from our boys and messing around with married guys and many things I haven't even mentioned."
Did you read what I wrote earlier? It explains why she may have had the need to do that. You're choosing not to listen to that.
"I am just saying that none of it explains her erratic behaviour,"
Yes it does.
"especially regarding our sons,they are blameless so while she might be fully expected to exclude and break from me she should still want to be a mum to them."
Why? That's not for you to decide. Something happened to her that made her want to remove herself from them and you. Only she knows the reason why or maybe she doesn't.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I fully accept that maybe she doesn't I completely understand that she may have no clue why she is behaving as she is. I accept it. I really don't know what else to do,she has ripped my heart out and trampled all over it, I don't believe that I deserved any of that but I've accepted it. Is there a point at which I can be cut some slack here? I have given up everything and am trying my best, what else can I do???
Practically the only thing you're doing right now is looking for affirmation for the ways you are feeling.
And you could probably find quite a few people who could provide affirmation, by either being sad with you, or mad with you, or having your back and telling you that "no, you didn't deserve any of that", or telling you that they can't believe she would leave her boys, etc. Any of that. Maybe you already have some people providing such affirmation.
But affirmation won't bust a divorce. The slack you're seeking won't bust a divorce.
Right now, you are still stuck in the phase where you are being shocked by all of this. You are still shocked this happened to begin with. Then when you think about her messing around with married men, you get even more shocked. Then when you think of the other things you haven't mentioned I think you get even MORE shocked. Then when you think of how she is distancing herself from her boys, I think you are shocked to an even greater level than that.
Think of other times that YOU have been very shocked (over unrelated things). What are a person's natural reactions to being shocked? Anger, sadness, panic, confusion, disbelief, to name a few. So what do people often do as they're experiencing these reactions? They look for others to cope with in order to get them through the shock. I think that's what you're looking for here on this site more than you might realize, even though I would say first and foremost you are seeking an answer to solve the problems you're facing.
But simply coping with the shock and hoping others will cut you slack is fruitless in terms of actually solving the problem. Cutting you slack WON'T solve the problem.
The DB principles give you tools to solve the problem, but you have to get over the shock first and all the panic and despair that go with it. Right now you are not calm enough or thinking clearly enough to apply the principles.
You need to accept the new reality of your life, that being, your wife is not the woman she once was. And yes, she can and did do all the things that shocked you. She will likely do more things that could shock you, but only if you let them.
Accept all this as fact instead of treating it like a bad dream.
I wish you well.
You are shocked at the very notion that she would sleep with married men.
In your last post, you said "I don't really know what else to do" and "what else can I do??
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
You can disregard the last 2 sentences at the bottom of the previous post, those were draft thoughts I had prior to finalizing the post. Hopefully the paragraphs above conveys those thoughts better.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
Thankyou for that post Grocerykartman I think you are right that I have been looking for affirmation, I suppose I have been wallowing in self pity for a while and its a natural way to deal with it I suppose. I also agree that resentment has built up but I am concious of that and am trying to distance myself from that feeling as I know it is counter-productive. I guess my overwhelming feeing for a while now has been one of sadness and grief over the loss of the girl I was in love with and I am trying to find ways to demonise her as she is now to help me cope with the fact that she has changed, possibly forever. I know that needs to stop and that I must fully accept who she is now and let her get on with her life without judging. I have said to her that I don't care what she does with her life providing it doesn't adversley affect the boys, I would have though that was just boundary setting but maybe I have got that wrong. I never ask her now what she has been doing or where she has been going, in fact so much so that she has started to volunteer the information anyway, but I just smile now and say ' oh thats nice' We will be spending a lot of time together over the Easter break and I am using it to show her that I have changed in many ways.But I don't expect anything to change with our sitch and am going into full LRT after the break. If there is anyhthing else I can do I would appreciate feedback.
Day one of our long weekend together now over. She spent quite a few hours with me, I made a family dinner and we all ate together. Then she sat with me and we chatted for hours, small talk and catch up and no R talk at all. I was relaxed and chilled and so was she,it all felt so normal as if we were still a couple. Then we discussed plans for tomorrow and again we were in agreement over what to do. Its all a bit surreal right now,but I really do still feel that I need to detach completely after the break as planned. I just find that being in her company is hard work in terms of doing 180s and staying positive and cheerful when its not how I am really feeling. I hated it when she got up to leave so I know doing this on a regular basis is not good for me. I mean its not as if it was much about the boys today as when she was sitting chatting to me they were outside playing. It showed me though that LRT has to happen as I just can't do the whole happy families thing when its not real, I don't want her as a 'best friend' I want her as my wife and partner. I can't have that so I really have to detatch as much as possible.
So thats the weekend over. Unfortunately R talk was had right at the end.I don't know why but I allowed to her to get to me right as I was about to leave.I think it was because of her indifference throughout yesterday. So we spent 20 minutes rehashing some things, I'm really annoyed by that as I had done so well. She reaffirmed her position that she was determined that she wasn't in love with me and that the marriage is over. I left, it really has set me back and made it so clear that we need to stop all non essential contact from now on. I sent her a text explaining how I feel about things, mistake after mistake I know. She replied agreeing that we need time and space. Spending time with her is not good for me. It affects me badly and sets me back from weeks of personal progress. So LRT is now in full swing, I doubt it will change anything about our sitch but I am hoping it will eventually help me.
Yes you're right Sandi part of me hoped she would want to spend more time with me. but she was so distant yesterday, even with the boys, that its obvious she is a million miles from our marriage and family. The main thing for me is that it really does set me back, I was really making personal progress but feel really low today. So its obvious I need to fully engage with LRT and stay away from her as much as possible.
I'm sorry, Andy. Maybe the break will help you get stronger and get so much focus off her. Sometimes it takes a couple of years for things to work out.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I know that I'll be ok in a day or so. I just struggle when I'm with her as it reminds me of what we had. I intend to refocus on me now that the break is over. I was worried about spending a lot of time with her and I have now learnt my lesson so I won't be repeating that I guess i had to do it to be sure and now i am.
Day one of my new resolve and she's broken the rule already. She texted me asking if she could call and see the boys. I said they were out but that she could if she wanted. She then said she would just call my son on his mobile. Then she calls me??? Why I have no idea, small talk and asking me if I wanted her to swap this weekend( my weekend with boys) and she would have them as she has no plans. Hardly essential for her to call. I should have just ignored it....
Did you tell her not to contact you unless it was something extremely important about the kids? If you did, then I would let it go to voice mail.....at least until you get detached.
It sounds as if she may have tested you a bit just to see how you would respond. There are a lot of women who go to great lengths to test the LBH to see if she still has an affect on him.
Don't be shocked when she completely ignores what you've said. Like you said, she already has on the first day. I think she will even want to hit you up for another "family activity" when she gets bored or lonely. It is hard to explain why some women do this, but it's part of the cake they want.
You will figure out a way.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well we agreed that contact going forward would only be ref the boys so I thought it was clear. She was so nice on the phone which is strange considering how we left things on Monday. I will have to be on my guard as she really seems to be cake eating and up to now I have been letting her off with it. I am feeling much stronger today but things like that make me wonder whats going on. I mean she was adamant also that space was needed and yet she rings me already. The voicemail thing seems like a good idead.
If she leaves a message, then it's not like you totally ignore it.......in case of an emergency situation. Listening to the message gives you a chance to evaluate if it requires a response. Just b/c she calls doesn't mean you must call back. And if it is something that does require a response, try to text it instead of talking over the phone. Keeps it a bit less personal by not hearing her voice......maybe? And keep the TM limited to as few words as possible.
I have read a lot of threads over the time I have been here, and I have seen that it seems to be such a struggle for the LBH to detach as long as there is back & forth contact with his WAW, it just seems to mess with his head! "why did she call........does it mean something more......etcl.". Face it, you guys will never figure us out, and if we happen to be a WAW, you sure 'nuff stay confused.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
that makes a lot of sense to me. I do sometimes try to read into what she does in some vague hope that she is changing her mind about things but I know thats futile now and only serves to stop my progress in detaching. Its just weird that we can't communicate anymore, we were such a close couple able to talk about anything and now the slightest issue becomes impossible. I really have to stand firm on the distance now as I know it is better for me.
Ok Day two and she breaks the rules again She came round to drop the boys off after picking them up earlier. Then comes into the kitchen as I am preparing my dinner and starts a conversation. Small talk again, then asks can she see the boys on Sat for a while. I was staying calm and a little bit aloof.I spoke in short sentences and said yeah sure, but I am taking them shopping but might be back late. Then she gets annoyed as she feels I am snubbing her What the ...??? She starts to storm off. I called her back and asked what exactly she expected, we had agreed space and distance and she expects me to be full of joy etc when she is around, how was I supposed to be around her? I'm trying hard with all of this but she keeps imposing herself. Is it time for me to put my foot down, maybe I should have been firmer but I believed we had agreed and now she is really staring to wind me up.
"but I believed we had agreed and now she is really staring to wind me up."
Saying that you're going to give her "space" isn't a concrete set of rules. If you want to have something enforceable, then come up with a concrete schedule and stick to it.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
No. You what you "expect" is too vague. You have to write it down in stone. Come up with a calendar and write down when you can see the kids and when she can. All other requests will be reviewed. Come up with a structure.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Well the boys live with me, she only sees them three times per week for a few hours and alternative Saturdays. She texts me when she wants to see them outside of that. Its the fact that she is starting conversations when we had agreed minimal contact. It was supposed to be mutual and I don't initiate contact, but she does.
"Its the fact that she is starting conversations when we had agreed minimal contact. "
Agreeing to giving her "space" and "time" isn't an exact minimal contact agreement. She is their mom after all, so she should have scheduled access to them. Just not whenever she feels like it.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Its the fact that she is starting conversations when we had agreed minimal contact. It was supposed to be mutual and I don't initiate contact, but she does.
This can only make you mad if YOU let it.
You need to stick to a firm schedule. not because it hurts you or bothers you that she contacts you, but because it's bad for your boys to not know who they're going to be with. They need to get used to a schedule and not be surprised. You need to be busy with your boys as much as possible too, with things planned whenever you can. That way you won't be tempted to just give up time with them because you don't see that you have anything better to do.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
We are meeting later to discuss a concrete plan for the boys going forward. We do already have a schedule but it needs some adjusting as it is very heavily weighted towards them being almost always with me ( her choice) and I feel that it needs to be adjusted to ensure they spend more time with her. I am just concerned about the conversation itself, She had suggested that I come up with the plan and we could discuss it and I have created a schedule which I believe is fair but I also believe we should agree on our own personal interaction during handover times. I am considering asking her to just drop them off and not to come into the house as I really want to avoid conversation as I find it difficult. This will probably annoy her as she seems to make a point of coming in and then starting conversations. She rang me again last night out of the blue and was having general chat etc.I just don't know what to do for the best. On the one hand she insists that time and space are necessary and then behaves as if everything is normal and wants to have a chat???
she phones me when there is really no need, she chats about what has happened that day in work etc and other small talk. She got annoyed when she was with me on Thursday because I didn't appear to be full of joy to see her and because I was keeping my talk limited and only answering her etc. I really don't know what she expects and I told her when she stormed off. She can't expect me to be engaging happily with her when I feel so sad at the end of our marriage. As much as I know I should be acting as if everything is ok she makes it very difficult as she seems to be seeking attention but giving absolutely nothing in return. I just can't seem to get a balance no matter what I do.
"We do already have a schedule but it needs some adjusting as it is very heavily weighted towards them being almost always with me ( her choice) and I feel that it needs to be adjusted to ensure they spend more time with her."
Why do you keep trying to control this? If she doesn't want to be with them, then you can't force it.
You're still trying to control things.
"She can't expect me to be engaging happily with her when I feel so sad at the end of our marriage."
She has a right to "expect". You just don't have to fill those expectations. Stop trying to control how she feels.
"As much as I know I should be acting as if everything is ok she makes it very difficult as she seems to be seeking attention but giving absolutely nothing in return."
Mindreading on your part. To me it seems like she's trying to stay friends with you for the sake of the kids. If you can't handle it, then move on, but don't try to control her actions.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
i do get what you are saying Mr Bond I can see how it looks as if I am trying to control things, but the schedule was already in place and I just felt that it was unfair on me and the boys that she saw so little of them. I asked her if she was happy to look at it and she agreed. When we went out together on Easter Monday the following happened which frustrated me( I know I allowed myself to be frustrated). I took the boys into the maze for a treasure hunt which they absolutely loved and we spent nearly an hour doing it, meanwhile she lay in the sun and declined the chance to join us. Then I took them to crazy golf for over an hour, she did the same thing,lay in the sun. I just found it strange that she would choose to miss out on those activities considering it was supposed to be about spending time as much as possible doing fun things with our boys. I have raised this with her and for the first time she seemed to really accept what I was saying and has said it was wrong for her to do it. I don't want to control her, I have no clue what she does when she isn't in my company, but I think it's sad that she is missing out on some lovely times with the boys and I worry that she doesn't realise it and it might be too late when she does.The boys are already seeming to come to terms with her rarely being there and thats sad considering how devoted she once was. The bottom line is though that I know it is her choice and her loss, . She also revealed to me tonight that she desperately wants to go on our holiday to my sisters abroad. I thought she had accepted it couldn't happen but it appears not, she is trying to find a way that makes it possible but doesn't want the pressure cooker that might happen if we spend to much time together. I don't think it would be possible, I would find it very difficult.
I took the boys into the maze for a treasure hunt which they absolutely loved and we spent nearly an hour doing it, meanwhile she lay in the sun and declined the chance to join us. Then I took them to crazy golf for over an hour, she did the same thing,lay in the sun. I just found it strange that she would choose to miss out on those activities considering it was supposed to be about spending time as much as possible doing fun things with our boys. I have raised this with her and for the first time she seemed to really accept what I was saying and has said it was wrong for her to do it..
I went through a very similar circumstance the summer before my WAW moved out. Just reading this brought back some uncomfortable but important memories. I remember going to the beach one weekend and spending probably a couple hours with my 2.5 year old daughter at the time in the water and playing in the sand, and my ex wanted to do nothing but sit in the sun and be indifferent to everything. (I suppose that's what one does anyway at the beach, but I digress)
Not long after that, we spent time taking my daughter blueberry picking for the first time and it was another distant experience.
So yes, the intuitive thing to think seems to be "wow, I get that she's not wanting to be around ME now, but I just can't believe that she doesn't want to do things with her child." That's what I thought then too. But that's the reality of it.
I don't know if the WAW still agrees to do activities like this just because she feels guilty not being there in body even if not in mind, or maybe she actually is hoping that SOMETHING, ANYTHING will happen to make her want to change her mind about wanting to leave the marriage, or maybe they just feel they have no choice but to attend, or what. I won't pretend to know.
But, I think you can be darn sure that things like mini golf and kids mazes are not going to be enjoyable for someone who wants out of a marriage. It's another form of pressure and guilt. My guess is that these things probably seem either really boring and trivial compared to the anguish she has going on her head, or she may be afraid that getting close to the boys will keep her tied to you tighter when she wants to run. Again, I don't really know (being just a clueless dude and all) but that's my guess.
My WAW did ultimately snap out of the aloofness, and hopefully yours will too. But expect this to continue for a while. Make the best of it.
Originally Posted By: AndyK
I don't want to control her, I have no clue what she does when she isn't in my company, but I think it's sad that she is missing out on some lovely times with the boys and I worry that she doesn't realise it and it might be too late when she does. .
That's for her to figure out on her own.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
"I can see how it looks as if I am trying to control things, but the schedule was already in place and I just felt that it was unfair on me and the boys that she saw so little of them."
So? Again, she has to WANT to see them. You can't say that she doesn't see them enough or whatever. It's not up to you to judge.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
i totally agree, I suggested a change to her to see if she was interested, she agreed, had she not it would have remained the same. I was trying to get a bit more time off as I am exhausted but had she refused I wouldn't have pushed it. As it was she was happy to agree so at least it gives me a little more free time as I am beginning to struggle on my own but didn't want to say that to her as I don't want her to agree just because she feels compelled to. The issue of our holiday is a difficult one, I don't see how it would be possible for her to go but I know the boys would love to have her there and she really wants to find a way of making it possible.
I can't see how it is possibly a good idea for your W to go on the vacation with you. I just read your thoughts after the weekend with her, and that was just a weekend. As far as doing things as a family sometimes, I think it is OK on occasion and nice for the kids, but it seems to me that a whole week would not only be difficult for you, but would trigger reconciliation fantasies for your boys which would only create further disappointment from them.
It sounds to me like she wants the good parts of the R with you but not the parts that require any work. My H did the same thing - he was happy to have family time and have sex with me the first three months of our S - and I played into it because I thought maybe he was coming around. Ummm, no. If she is not saying that she is interested in R or willing to work on the M, she is not coming around - she is eating cake. The longer you serve it to her, the longer you are going to stay attached to her and feeling awful.
As far as interactions with kid exchanges - I decided one day I was going to have the kids ready at the door when H arrived - so as soon as he pulled up, they were halfway down the walk. It would have been weird for him to try to come in then. When he drops them off, I watch for him and I go outside as soon as I see him pull up, and greet the kids outside. It worked. If your W throws another fit about you snubbing her, just let her go next time. Let her live with the consequence of her actions.
This is going to sound harsh, because I know you are desperately searching for a sign that your W may be coming around - but you need to accept the truth right now. Right now, she does not want to be your W. She does not want the kind of R you want with her. When you read into the things she does, you are creating expectations that will almost surely be disappointed. Trust in the fact that if your W wants to come back to you, she knows how to say so. Since she hasn't said so, you need to focus on you and live your life as though she is never coming back.
I remember when someone said something similar to me and I was crushed. But I have found that it is true. I did not start to believe in myself until I started to live as though H was not coming back, and started to accept that he is never coming back.
Hope the parenting time convo goes well - I agree with the others that if your W is not spending much time with the kids, that's her issue to deal with, not yours. You worry about yourself and the kids. Not her.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
thank you Melissa I agree that most of how I view what she says and does is my way of trying to believe, foolishly, that she might be changing her mind about leaving. I should explain that throughout our life as a couple my W has always had problems saying sorry to me, she is very very stubborn and single minded. Even for the most trivial of things she never apologised. I actually used to make light of the fact with her and used to just make a joke about it but it really did hurt me that she felt unable to apologise. So part of me thinks that even if she did start to have second thoughts that this side of her personality would make it difficult for her to come and say to me. I can tell she isn't happy right now as she looks very tired and drawn and I rarely see her smile. But I have now fully accepted that she is gone and almost certainly never coming back. It is the most difficult thing I have ever had to deal with in my life as I never imagined life without her but I know its a fact now so i am just going to have to get on with my life. Strangely this realisation has begun to make things a little bit easier as its true that hanging on to false hope is very difficult and painful. So letting go completely has had a interesting effect on me. As for her relationship with the boys, well I know it is no longer my concern whether or not she maintains a relationship with them. I hope she does for their sake, but I know that all I can control is how I am with them and I just want to spend as much time as possible and try and be the best dad that I can be. I also realise that it would be impossible for her to come on hoilday with us as it would be two weeks of strain and worry. Also my sister knows everything that has happened and although she is very calm and level headed she loves me and would find it difficult to accept my W coming after everything that has happened.
" I was trying to get a bit more time off as I am exhausted"
Now you understand how she felt when she was doing most of the work.
"But I have now fully accepted that she is gone and almost certainly never coming back."
Mindreading.
"As for her relationship with the boys, well I know it is no longer my concern whether or not she maintains a relationship with them. "
That part should be a concern of yours because it will dictate how they're future relationships will be. You just can't control it, but should understand it.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
'Now you understand how she felt when she was doing most of the work.'
I just need to clarify. I did a lot anyway before the split. I didn't help out much in the morning when getting the boys ready for school and just didn't realise how hard it is until I am now doing it alone, I deeply regret not realising it before. But I bathed my children, made them dinner 3 nights per week when she attended the gym.Took them to bed and brushed their teeth etc at least 3-4 nights per week. Every Saturday she worked so I had them all day and did all th things I am now doing. I was already a very hands on Dad . The main difference is that I now have every single morning to organise them for school before starting my days work. And I have them almost every evening, feeding them, doing homeworks, sorting them for bed as well as everything else, all on my own. I maybe haven't stressed enough that they actually are with me more than 85% of the time so its the shift in balance that is exhausting me. But I was already a very hands on Dad in so many ways.
'Mindreading.'
I am basing this purely on what she is continuously telling me. I didn't or couldn't accept it for a long time as I didn't want to give it up. But she has stated it clearly on more than one occasion recently so I have no choice but to accept that it is fact.I wish it wasn't the case but she insists that it is so I don't see how this can be construed as mindreading.
"As for her relationship with the boys, well I know it is no longer my concern whether or not she maintains a relationship with them. "
'That part should be a concern of yours because it will dictate how they're future relationships will be. You just can't control it, but should understand it.'
If you read my next line 'I hope she does for their sake,' you will see that it was a figure of speech. Anytime I have expressed my thoughts on her actions or decisions you have accused me of trying to control, now that I suggest giving up that though you are saying I should be concerned. I am of course, but what can I do? I want my boys to have a healthy strong relationship with their mum and if there was any way I could help that I would. But she has to want to do that and I have no say on how she decides to approach it.
I am trying my best to do things right. I have made and will continue to make mistakes in this. But I am honestly doing everything I can. Like I have said, there are so many other things my W has said and done over the months that I haven't mentioned as they happened before I joined the forum. Very hurtful and destructive things that most of our friends have almost disowned her for. But I took things on the chin and carried on trying because I love her and wanted to save our marriage. I also realise now that these things happen in the context of an affair and marriage breakdown and that I have also said and done questionable things due to the volatile nature of the situation. I deeply regret anything I have done or said and have said it clearly during our therapy. I realise that dwelling on these things serves no purpose so I am letting everything go and trying to get on with things. I truly am trying now to GAL and let her get on with hers. Meanwhile I am trying to create a healthy environment for our two boys and I don't and won't always get it right but I will keep trying.
"Anytime I have expressed my thoughts on her actions or decisions you have accused me of trying to control, now that I suggest giving up that though you are saying I should be concerned."
You twisted my words around. Go back to what you wrote. All I can do is comment on that. AND there's a difference between controlling and being concerned. You won't be able to control what your W does, HOWEVER you need to be concerned about how that affects your kids and be able to deal with the aftermath of her actions WITH them. I'm not saying to tell your W what to do. But you can ease the confusion your boys have by talking to them and showing them the RIGHT way.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I can assure you that I am doing that. I can't express enough the fact that they are my absolute number one priority right now, above everything else. Everything I do now and every decision I make is made with their well being as paramount. My W has seen them quite a bit over the Easter break but that is over now and we will revert back to the norm of her only seeing them a couple of times per week. The tweaks I made to the schedule did't really change much of that although I had left opportunities for her to have more time and hoped she would take advantage but it seems not. So apart from clariifying exactly when she shes them on specific days and agreeing how they should be handed over nothing much has changed. It concerns me for my boys sake that she doesn't seem worried about spending more time with them but all I can do is be strong and loving for them. I am also concerned about our holiday. I have spent a lot of time planning activities for them when we go and it saddened me last night when I looked at our itinerary and realised my W would not be there. She had been heavily involved in the early planning of it and its going to feel so strange doing all of the amazing things we had planned, without her. I feel that it may yet still be a bit of a hurdle for us as she does really want to go. I just don't see how it would be possible?
So she has texted me and asked if she can come and see the boys tonight after work, she doesn't finish until 8pm and she will have them over the weekend anyway so I have no idea why she has asked this as she never does and this is a regular scenario with her working late and its never something she suggests. I do have a theory though. She mentioned last week that she was going to ask her counsellor about the whole issue regarding the family holiday as she is really keen to go and it is really playing on her mind. She was with him two nights ago and then texted me the next day asking could she call tonight. I need her to sign a letter of consent allowing me to take the boys out of the country and have asked her would she sign it, she has yet to agree although I would hope she would't be difficult about it. Like I said, she would only be seeing the boys for 10 mins before bed anyway and she will have them most of the weekend so I am concerned that she has spoke to her counsellor and is going to try some angle to rty and make this holiday difficult if she can't go? Any advice would be appreciated.
In the beginning she had no problem when you said it would be uncomfortable for you, sister, etc., if she went. I am not surprised she has had seconds thought about it. But do you think she would really not allow you to take the kids if she doesn't go?
Did she contribute financially toward the trip?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
No Sandi I paid for the trip. We will lose her fare but that doesn't worry me. She signed the letter tonight but was clearly upset. she said ' well I hadn't decided whether I was going or not but obviously you have' She says she is worried about how the boys will react to her not going but they more or less know anyway. I think she is just worried about how she is going to be for two weeks when they are gone.
Sure, she is thinking of herself. She acts as if there was never a previous discussion regarding the grip.
The boys will have your undivided attention and time. They will love it. Make it a "guys trip" that will be more about making memories of them being with their dad.........instead of focusing on the fact mom isn't there.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
i need her to photocopy her passport and give me a copy to go along with the letter. I have asked her several times for it but she seems to be avoiding this.She has also asked that we don't tell the boys for another couple of weeks??? I really think that the earlier they know the easier it will be as they will get used to the idea by the time we go. I want this sorted so that I can just focus on the holiday but she seems determined to hold the process up.
I would tell them, so they will get use to the idea in plenty of time to adjust. I doubt they will take it as hard as she wants them to. Play it up as being a "men's only trip" and I think it might be appealing to them. That's just my way of thinking.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
you're so right sandi She got angry at me last night when I asked her again. It will be a boys trip and I am building it that way for them but she is really put out that I am now focused on going without her as she always believed I would agree to her coming. Still waiting for her to give me the passport copy. She seems very depressed right now, very rarely smiling and really irritable. I feel a bit sorry for her as I am starting to find my feet on my own and have started to enjoy socialising etc.Whereas she seems to do very little and has started to offer to have the boys more at weekends as she doesn't seem to have much going on. I always feared that for her as our friends have more or less abandoned her due to the things she has done, I think that is sad because we had a really good network and although they are all still there for me I do worry that she will become more and more isolated on her own as she virtually no-one apart from one long time friend.
it now seems she won't make any decision without consulting her counsellor. I asked her yet again about telling the boys now to give them time to adjust. She says she will speak to him ref this and come back to me. This is a girl who was never afraid of making decisions and now can't seem to make any. I barely recognise her now and I find it very sad that she has almost disappeared as a person from how she was. She looks thoroughly miserable, I just wish she would talk to me even though I don't expect her ever to come back, but just so that I can have a conversation with her to see how she truly is. But i guess that would do me no good anyway.
Its amazing how someone we love and care about can change so rapidly. All of us here experienced the same things your going through.
They become a shell of who they once were. Unfortunately all we can do is lovingly detach, look after your kids and focus on becoming the best person you can be!
H 37 WAW 32 S 4 (Autistic) S 2 Together 11 years Married 6 Bombshell Dec 1 2012 House sold, flying solo June 1 2013.
thank you Maritimer I have really detached from her now. I do still love her but I know I can no longer be there for her as she needs to find her own path. 6 months ago we were a close, loving couple, now she is gone. I really do hope she finds what she is looking for, I am moving on and have a clear path ahead which is life without her, it does make me very sad sometimes though.
thought I would give an update. My marriage is over, there is nothing I can do to save it My W is now a complete stranger to me and I am fairly sure she is in a new relationship. So for me the choice is to move on with my life and be the best dad I can be for my boys who still live with me full time and only see her a few times per week. I have developed a close friendship with a lovely girl who is helping me heal from all of this as she has been through a very similar situation. It is very early days but at least I now know I will be ok no matter what. Thank you to all who posted with advice over the past few months but I guess it just wasn't meant to be. Good luck to all of you on here regardless of how things turn out, we will all be happy again.
Thanks for the update. Sorry things turned out this way. I really believe you are going to be fine, although it doesn't keep you from experiencing deep sadness.
Your boys have a great dad! I am glad they are living with you in their home.
I wish the best for you, Andy. Take care of yourself.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
