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And a key logger on the home computer is not a bad idea, IMO.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 768
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mdu Offline OP
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Ok, thanks, so I confronted him about a better transparency plan and he was resistant. Really is not 100% on board the idea of agreeing to do 'whatever I need'. Also, he continues to have STRONG feelings for her, which is obviously a road block to our reconciling. He thinks there's a very slim chance things will work out between he and I. So what now? Am I supposed to kick him out again? I hate doing this to my kids. Our first 10 day separation was hard on them. I can't get into back and forth and I'm not ready to file for divorce, I don't think. I am so confused!


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Tell him "Then all I can conclude is that you're still in contact with her, or want to leave a door open so you CAN be. That doesn't work for me. Looks like we both have some important decisions to make."

And then leave him be. Do NOT get into it with him, or tell him what you plan on doing. POST HERE FIRST.

He still sounds foggy to me. My guess is that he's still been in contact. COULD just be a "stubborn male" thing, but HE is going to have to decide if his pride is more important than making things right with you.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I'll wait on some vets to pitch in here, but I've gotta tell you, mdu, the fact that he is resisting 100% transparency is a huge red flag.

As for his strong feelings for OW, expect that. Also expect "withdrawal symptoms." If he's HAPPY during the withdrawal period, it's my opinion that you have something about which to worry. Let's see if I can explain: Remember a time when you "fell in love"? Those butterfly feelings? The feeling that you've just met THE ONE?!? That's what your H has done. To FEEL that - and understand it, in your current sitch - is going to HURT you. But those are the feelings he has allowed himself to develop for another woman, outside of your M. Now imagine having to give that up for your spouse, with whom you have fallen OUT of love for the time being.

It's like taking a drink out of the hand of an alcoholic. The withdrawal period is NOT going to be pretty. So if he's happy during this time, you MUST question whether he's "picking up the drink again." If he's miserable, he's very likely "detoxing." Does that make sense?

I don't mean to sound like a cynic, but the fact that things have seemed on an upward swing with you two immediately after he supposedly sent OW a NC message ... but he's not 100% invested in the transparency plan you pitched ... sends up red flags to me.

I wouldn't make ANY hasty decisions about kicking him out or filing. You've got time. Just try to talk it out here and bide your time for a while ...


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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And see? While I'm responding, the vet pitches in. BOOM! You've got support here, mdu. smile


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 768
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mdu Offline OP
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Big deeps breaths...

Ok, thanks again to both of you for replying. Definitely agreeing and also feeling the red flag with the resistence. As for him being 'high', he actually has not been this last week. He's been pretty grumpy and distant. We separated for 10 days because he was clearly unsure about reconciling but then he recommitted and we were BOTH really high immediately after the recommitment, that lasted a couple of days but then he came down and has been getting more and more distant and down as the days go by. He is a very stubborn and very defensive guy, I do think it's possible that is driving his resistence but I think probably a slim chance.

I do get the whole 'in love' withdrawal thing. He and I very much had that 'in love' endorphin thing going when we first got together :-( So awful to think he let it go THAT far and really is there any chance for recovery when they go THAT deep?? I keep wondering if this is even worth MY while.

During the confrontation about the tranparency plan I said a lot of crap I shouldn't of. I started to cry and told him I loved him, how could he do this, blah, blah, blah. I did not handle it well, although I am sure it was also apparent to him that my wheels were turning and I was really wondering if I should continue to stay and 'try'. By the time he got home from work a couple of hours later I turned it around a bit and ended up telling him as soon as he got home that I needed some space and was heading out. I said dinner is in the oven for the kids and I would tell them that I was going to run errands and then I just left. I am not sure what (if anything more) I should say when I get home.

I am tempted to call the OW and just ask her WTF is up, that would be an exceptionally bad idea, right?! So glad I am posting here, I really appreciate the support!


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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This is just me, but I'm going to say that calling the home wrecker is an exceptionally bad idea. Don't let her "in" anymore than she's already "in" your M. She did you NO favors by becoming your H's lover. Don't expect her to help you or your M now ...

And I think it's potentially good news that he's grumpy and distant.

Yes, worse situations than yours have turned around. Some Ms can be even BETTER than pre-A. That's not BS. One of my dearest friends has a M that weathered an A, and she and her H have been blissfully married since - for about 30 years!

Play your cards right. But I'll defer to others to give you much of the advice on exactly HOW to do that since I'm still in the throes of a mess myself. wink It's easier, though, to find "answers" in another person's situation than in our own.

Good on you for getting out of the house this evening, though!

Keep it together. And try to focus on your own sanity right now. No R talks because that will send YOU into a downward cycle. (((Hugs)))


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 768
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mdu Offline OP
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Update...
So last night I came home and went straight up to bed. Did not say a word to him. After about an hour he timidly came up and said he just wanted to see what's going on. I just sort of shrugged. Then he asked if I wanted him to sleep elsewhere. I said, yeah, I think we both need space, so he went to our basement bedroom. This morning I am up early and aiming to get out of here quickly (hopefully before he gets up). I am planning to leave him a letter, this is the best way for me to communicate without getting overly emotional or sucked into foolish R talk. Here's what the letter says, probably not precisely what you all would recommend but it's what I feel most comfortable with right now:

H,
I love you and am still willing to work on things. However, as you well know, you have completely broken my trust in you. In order for me to begin to feel safe in our marriage I need your complete & full commitment to being fully accountable and transparent with all your actions and communications. That includes providing me with any/all passwords I may request. If you are unable or unwilling to commit to whatever transparency plan I require to help me feel safe again then I can only conclude that you are a). still in contact with her or b). leaving doors open so you CAN be at some point. This is not acceptable to me. As long as you are in contact with her or leaving doors open so you possibly can reconnect you are not really giving our marriage a chance and I will be unable to move forward with working on things.
Love,
mdu


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 768
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mdu Offline OP
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Posts: 768
Ugh, I felt so confident early this morning. Now I am totally questioning whether I should have set such a firm boundary. Intellectually I know it's probably the right thing but emotionally I am struggling and wondering if I should be softer, give him more time to come around on his own, etc. This is so horrible to deal with! I am trying so hard to stay focused (I am at work) but it's so, so hard!!


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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Posts: 1,433
Hey, mdu!

Remember that DBing is very counter-intuitive. A lot of times, you'll feel like you are doing the *opposite* of what "should" work. But think about it this way: what you've been thinking "should" work is what landed you here.

So, yes, you're going to be living well outside your comfort zone for a while. No doubt about it. You'll be doing things that you think will push your H away. The idea is that the stronger YOU become, the more attractive you become. The entire idea, essentially, is to improve YOURSELF. Fake it 'til you make it, even. And if your H follows, good for him. If he refuses to sever ties with OW, then you'll be strong and confident enough to weather this storm on your own. Nobody wants to think about doing this alone, but your H's choices are his choices, and you have no control over them. You CAN, however, potentially *influence* his choices by focusing and working on YOU.

I still can't say I have a finger firmly on the pulse of your sitch, at least not enough to be confident in passing along any specific words of advice. BUT, keep posting here. Others will be weighing in. And I'm checking in on you and will pitch in what I can, when I can! smile

Forgive me if you've already listed it, but has your H provided a list of "complaints" about you in your M? And what are you doing to get out of the house and settle your mind a little?


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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