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#2445483 04/14/14 08:49 AM
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mdu Offline OP
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One of the toughest parts of this is figuring out how to behave around H. I have read a lot here and believe I understand the concept of GAL but wonder if it's the right thing to do now. H has agreed to 'work on the marriage' BUT I am extremely suspicious and afraid he is still in touch with OW. I get that it is highly addicting and have a hard time imagining he could just go cold turkey. On the brighter side, I thought I would list some of the positive things I've observed from him:
• He is going to MC with me
• He is making some efforts to emotionally connect with me (this was a problem pre-affair), talking to me about work, watching TV together, general chitchat.
• We both were separately on our laptops the other night (another problem pre-affair), I decided to close mine, as soon as I did he did too and started chatting.
• When confronted about an unusual # on his cell phone record he did not become defensive , gave me an explanation and offered for me to see the txts
• He is expressing some accountability for his part and stating things he knows he needs to work on himself
• After expressing a lot of doubts about working on things and our marriage, I suggested he read a chapter in an infidelity book I thought was good which specifically gives some perspective on these types of feelings and he agreed to check it out (he is NOT a reader so this is really unusual for him).
• When I woke up sad and depressed recently he asked ‘what can I do to help?’
• I asked him to please come home by 6:30 so we can have dinner as a family and if he can’t make it home by then to please let me know by 6 so I can make dinner later if need be. He has abided by this request since I asked.

At this point I am really not sure if I should be pulling away from him (a.k.a. GAL) or in our particular situation if I should be turning toward him. Based on things he’s said bothered him, I believe a big issue for him in general pre-affair was he felt highly rejected by me. I rejected him a lot sexually (I basically controlled our sex life). I was highly distracted with the kids and work. I would go to bed early and leave him sitting alone on the couch watching TV. You get the idea. He was bottom on the list, unfortunately. I wonder if I should be showing him that he is top of the list now rather than pulling away and GAL?? I'm not sure if I should snoop or just let it go so that I communicate to him that I can trust him again and he can get out of jail. I know that is another fear he has, that I will hold this over him forever.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Did he send his OW a no-contact letter? Agree to a transparency plan with you? Is your MC trained in dealing with infidelity?

Those would be the top 3 things I would recommend to you in order to feel safe again emotionally in the marriage. Once you've confirmed no-contact, then no, you shouldn't be pulling away from him any longer, but you need to confirm the no-contact.

Did he change his cellphone # and email addresses -- things that OW used to communicate with him?

Without those things in place, it's impossible to tell the difference between a true return to the marriage, and him just pushing things underground and being on his best surface behavior. I'm a big "trust -- but verify" guy.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: mdu
Hi, I am new here. Here is my story.

On March 6th I busted my H having an affair. We have been married 8 and ˝ years and have 2 small children at home (4 and 6). My husband also has two older children (19 and 25) who are not at home anymore.

I had suspicions and looked at cell phone records. I found tons of txts/calls to an unfamiliar #, called it and sure enough it was a woman. I hung up and confronted him. He confessed. I was devastated and wanted to work things out. He was uncertain what he wanted to do. I begged and pleaded that we try to work things out and said I knew I had done things wrong and was willing to take an honest look and work on things. Within about a day he came around and agreed that he would recommit to me.

He called her to break things off but insisted on doing it alone, which I knew was bad but I just wanted it over. They met through work but she is in another office in another state, she lives 2 hours away. They do not work in the same department. Unless he visits that office and runs into her he really does not have to see her again. It was a 4 month affair, both sexual and emotional. He fell deeply in love with her.

The next week or so was heinous as I began trying to piece together what happened and grilling him for details of the affair. But he seemed to be doing all the right things, seemed to be forthcoming and truly remorseful. We began seeing a marriage counselor. I was horribly hurt and angry but hopeful. Then things started to turn. He had to travel for work and as soon as he was gone I started to panic and could feel him pulling away. Sure enough by the time he got home he had completely turned on me. He was very distant and began clearly PINING for her right in front of me! He was even playing love songs clearly for her RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME! Of course I wondered (and still do) if he had some contact with her while he was away but I’ve never been able to verify. He maintains he has had no contact since he initially broke it off.

I quickly began losing my patience. Within less than a week of this I decided I could not take it anymore and wrote him a letter stating that I needed his commitment 100% if we were going to work on this and I clearly did not have it so he must leave. He left.

A few days later we had another marriage counselor appointment. I was not sure if H would show up but he did. Marriage counselor suggested we put more structure and rules around the separation. He said we should not speak except for logistics regarding the kids. We should each take this time to independently decide what we each want then come back together in about a week and ˝ at our next counseling appointment and each state our decision. There was also to be NO contact with the affair partner during this time. We both agreed to this plan and followed the rules.

So we come back together 1 and ˝ weeks later and H immediately states he again wants to recommit to working on things with me. I still want the same and am thrilled. He moves back in. The next few days are mostly blissful, he is again remorseful, we talk and make love, do fun things with the kids and while it will clearly be tough things seem optimistic. But within a few days he starts turning on me again. He begins listing all the things that have bothered him about me apparently for years and years and that I must now change or else he will leave. To be fair, he also states that he has things to change as well but the lions share of issues clearly seem to be mine.

Now I will admit the things that he states I must change are not entirely unreasonable, however, he is SO negative. I have stated from the getgo that I know I have a part in making our marriage vulnerable to this and am motivated to make changes and have been trying very hard since this came out but that is not enough. He is extremely pessimistic that I can make the necessary changes and very pessimistic that we can work this out. He is not pessimistic by nature. At times he states he is just here for the kids. He has an extremely negative view of our entire history now, which is very worrisome because I wonder how can we overcome his horrible attitude? It makes it seem so overwhelming and like we have no chance to save this. I do not see our history the same, while I agree we have had a fair bit of conflict over the years and were at times disconnected (of course moreso while he was involved), I see a counterbalance of many happy times.

I am also angry that he was apparently SO unhappy for SO many years and while I knew on some level that things were not great I had no idea that he was so far gone that he would go to the extreme of an affair and seriously contemplate leaving. I feel that I have not been given a chance and while he is giving me a bit of a chance now it’s seems very minimal.

Another issue, he continues to have very strong feelings for her. I am not sure what to make of this either. How and when will he overcome this? I fear that they are like Romeo and Juliet now, torn apart and will forever love/miss each other. How do I live with this? When will it end?

We had a long discussion this evening where all his pessimism came out again. He will state that he will continue to work on things but then in the next breath say maybe we should just end it because it would be better for the kids. I want to commit to trying for at least a year but he is reticent to commit to investing for that long. I have been trying so hard but fear that I cannot be what he wants and he will not give me a fair chance. We ended up having an argument tonight that he said ‘triggered him’ and all his bad feelings/memories of our supposedly horrible marriage. I am trying so hard but it’s still not good enough and I worry that I am losing my own self-respect. I am trying to stand up and state what I want and need from the marriage as well but even with that, the lions share of issues/work still seems to be on me which seems horribly unfair when HE is the one who had the A!!!

Needless to say, I am confused and struggling with how to handle this all. Some moments I think to myself, this is so not worth it, he is just too far gone and there is no chance of salvaging things, I need to just end this and move on. The next I think that we are exactly where you’d expect given where we are in the process.

I could desperately use some perspective! Any/all thoughts are very welcome! Thanks so much in advance for reading and reacting to my story.


Stick to one thread until 100 posts.

Lets use this one.


Me-70, D37,S36
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mdu Offline OP
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Thanks to both of you for replying! I will definitely stick to this thread to keep things together going forward. Regarding no contact, here is what we have done:

He has not sent a no contact letter but I am confident he spoke to her and broke it off, I saw the call on the phone records and the evening he spoke to her she texted him and he told me immediately. I called her (dumb idea, I know) and it was clear that he had indeed ended it with her. That was over a month ago, unless I had hard evidence that he is in touch with her again I would be anxious to send a no contact letter at this point as I fear it might stir the pot again. He did not change his cell # but he did block her phone number on his cell. I also periodically check phone records so his cell # is actually quite easy for me to monitor so I am not terribly concerned about that. He did not change email address but I have access to it. I have password for his phone and his email is directly linked to it so I can check it randomly. If he is still in touch with her it would have to be a separate phone that I am not aware of or possibly work phone, although that would be tough because he does not have a private office at work. Or he would have to have created a new email account that I am not aware of or be getting emails and immediately deleting them before I have a chance to catch them. I suppose that is a possibility and maybe makes insisting that he change it something worth pursuing but having said that, I wonder if that will really make me feel better as he could easily create a new email account I am not aware of. I am not sure I want to go so far as installing some sort of tracking key on his laptop. He has two, one personal, one work. I would not be able to do that on the work one anyway. I feel like there's always some sort of possibility of him getting around things so where do I draw the line? I have been clear with him that no contact is imperative.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 768
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mdu Offline OP
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Oh and yes, the MC is trained in infidelity, he has 35 years experience. I feel really good about him.


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Originally Posted By: mdu
Thanks to both of you for replying! I will definitely stick to this thread to keep things together going forward. Regarding no contact, here is what we have done:

He has not sent a no contact letter but I am confident he spoke to her and broke it off, I saw the call on the phone records and the evening he spoke to her she texted him and he told me immediately. I called her (dumb idea, I know) and it was clear that he had indeed ended it with her. That was over a month ago, unless I had hard evidence that he is in touch with her again I would be anxious to send a no contact letter at this point as I fear it might stir the pot again. He did not change his cell # but he did block her phone number on his cell. I also periodically check phone records so his cell # is actually quite easy for me to monitor so I am not terribly concerned about that. He did not change email address but I have access to it. I have password for his phone and his email is directly linked to it so I can check it randomly. If he is still in touch with her it would have to be a separate phone that I am not aware of or possibly work phone, although that would be tough because he does not have a private office at work. Or he would have to have created a new email account that I am not aware of or be getting emails and immediately deleting them before I have a chance to catch them. I suppose that is a possibility and maybe makes insisting that he change it something worth pursuing but having said that, I wonder if that will really make me feel better as he could easily create a new email account I am not aware of. I am not sure I want to go so far as installing some sort of tracking key on his laptop. He has two, one personal, one work. I would not be able to do that on the work one anyway. I feel like there's always some sort of possibility of him getting around things so where do I draw the line? I have been clear with him that no contact is imperative.



That's NO no-contact letter, and a pretty leaky transparency plan if you ask me.

I would estimate that secret "affair phones" exist in about 50-75% of leaky transparency plans, in my experience. Where would I draw the line? I would draw it as:

- no-contact letter sent, the copy of which was approved by ME and it was DELIVERED by me;

- a thorough transparency plan that included changing all email and cellphone, with detailed billing on the new cellphone coming to me;

- at least one form of intel that is unknown to my wayward spouse, so that I can verify no-contact is continuing;

- MCing with a good MC or FT trained specifically to deal with infidelity

But that's just me. Remember, you need to guard not only against your husband's WILLINGNESS to do this, but also his ABILITY to pull it off. Us men can be very weak creatures, sadly.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Us men can be very weak creatures, sadly.

If I didn't know you better, Starsky, you would have fooled me right there. wink

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I completely agree with Starsky on the plan.

When I discovered my H's A, I immediately demanded - if he wanted to work on our M - that he end all contact with OW. I suspended his phone on our family plan (which was easy for me because the bill was in my name). H bought another phone. But a couple days later, he asked me to go with him to the phone store so he could turn his new phone off, and he asked if I would put him back on the family plan. He assured me I would be able to monitor his calls/emails since the bill was still in my name.

He told me, in a text, that he told OW that he needed to stay in our M to try to repair "anything that might be able to be repaired." He told me that he "might end up with OW, and he might not," but if he did, they would "hook up down the road."

I did not have the tools or know-how to demand a NC letter. And it didn't end up mattering anyway because I kicked him out about a week later when he disrespected me in front of our S7. BUT, one thing I later discovered is that he installed "TextPlus" on his phone, which would allow him to secretly contact OW. (I'm still not sure if it was on his "burn phone" or on the phone on our family plan.) The point is: technology provides easy ways to pull off an affair in secret.

AND, if your H is serious about reconciling, he'll be willing to do it on YOUR terms. To that end, I'd push for EVERYTHING Starsky mentions above. I wouldn't care how much time has passed. This is to protect YOU.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 768
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mdu Offline OP
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What does a no contact letter look like? When I say time has passed and I don't want to stir things up I mean that I fear sending a no contact letter to her at this point might in fact incite her to start trying to contact, which would get him all stirred up about her again, no? I mean we are not talking about some legal thing, right, in the end I can send a letter but she can still do whatever she wants? Maybe (obviously) I am not understanding the concept of the no contact letter and why it is so effective?

What are examples of intel that he would not be aware of?

If a secret affair phone exists in 50-75% of affairs anyway (that's depressing), how does any of this really guard against that? I guess that just leads me back to "if there's a will he'll find the way"


M: 42
H: 43
M: 8 years
S7 and D4
H has D19 and S25 from previous M
Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA
1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail
2nd separation: 5/1/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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mdu,

I'll defer to Starsky on some of that. But I think a hardcore, strict transparency plan, moving forward, is the only way to go. A new cell number for your H with the bill coming to you, IMO, is a must, especially if the relationship was carried out mostly by texts and calls. Obviously, the same would apply to an email address if email was used to carry out the affair.

I don't think there's a sure-fire method to make sure the A is ended or over. But a transparency plan is a great first step.

Remember, people involved in affairs are liars. And they're pretty good at it, too, which is probably more of a reflection of our desire to want to believe them.

The good news is: every day that your H honors the no-transparency plan and stays away from OW is a day closer to the day he may emerge from his "fog." And it's a day you can use to work on yourself and your M. Ignoring the big pink elephant in the room, hoping it will just go away, is not in the best interest of your M. Trust me: I learned that lesson, too. Let my H back in too soon and easy after an A in 2005. And here I am again. Do yourself a favor on the front-end of this beast: don't make this too easy on him.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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