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KGirl #2447587 04/23/14 01:04 AM
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^^^ wow. My H has a few close (single, of course) female friends, one of whom had an affair with a married man. Yep, I was insecure and jealous and suspicious. And he was offended and defensive and didn't get it AT. ALL. I thought I was lame-o and crazy for feeling the way I did.

If I were you, I probably wouldn't send it now. It probably wouldn't help now. But bookmark it in case he ends up working on the marriage, or for your next R!


Me 38 H 40
D 3
T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

claire7 #2447592 04/23/14 01:15 AM
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claire, I struggle with the line between insecure/jealous/suspicious overreacting and reasonable concerns. Before BD I always felt like everything I thought was justified. At BD I thought I must have been crazy/overreacting on everything and therefore drove H away with my crazy jealousness. Now, I think I've gotten myself to somewhere in-between. It's something I need to continue to work on because there were times in the past when I was over the top (and certain things get me anxious when they aren't worth being anxious over), but there are clear warnings in the present that I shouldn't ignore. I can't fix the past, but I'm not going to make up for the past by ignoring the current red flags and pretend everything is hunky-dory!


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
KGirl #2447698 04/23/14 02:47 PM
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Don't send him anything. If you were in a committed R with him, maybe. But you aren't.

Let it go.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
labug #2447843 04/23/14 11:39 PM
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This is going to be roouuugghh.

H asked me a few questions today:

1) "Does your extended family know about us? Because mine doesn't, and I want to make sure I let them know before you do something like make a statement on Facebook or something."
Maybe he should learn about mind-reading, huh? I said no, I haven't told extended family. Re: Facebook, I said that once I move I plan to just remove my relationship status entirely, and take off some of the albums/pictures we are tagged in together. So, some people might infer things from that, but no blatant "announcement." He seemed OK with that.

2) He asked me about moving - what day, should he help me, etc. I let him know what day I planned, said I'd get a bunch of friends to help, and asked that he not be here that day. He agreed.

Which then lead to start talking about our stuff...
He feels strongly that anything that "matches" should stay together, to the point where he'd rather just keep it and buy me new stuff for my apartment. I think if things can appropriately be divided, that it makes more sense to do that, especially if we can each live fine with the divided stuff and don't need replacements. For example, our bedroom set has two dressers, two nightstands, and a bed. I suggested that I would take my dresser and nighstand, and he'd have his dresser and nighstand plus the bed (I think the bed will be too big to fit in my apartment, so fine with me). He said he would not agree to that. If I took those two pieces, he'd need to replace them with identical ones so he'd have a set, and if they didn't make that set anymore, then he'd either completely replace it or keep it all and offer to buy me my own set. He said "I don't see why you wouldn't accept it if I just offered to buy new stuff for you?" Umm.. because I like the things we currently have and they don't make them anymore? Why does he need two nighstands and two dressers? I'm trying to validate and see his point of view but it just doesn't seem practical in any sense. And I don't want to be pushed into just getting all new stuff that won't be ready when I move in, so I'll have to live without stuff until it's ordered or comes in. There's a week between when I get my keys and when I plan to actually live in the new place, so unless he thinks he can get everything delivered within that week... how does that help me? Especially if I can't take off work to be there?

Please, someone help me get through this...I don't know how I'll be able to do this without arguing or losing it. He then said something about "you know, you're the one who decided to move.." UGH!


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
KGirl #2447880 04/24/14 03:02 AM
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Bah. Good thing the above all happened before book club so I could go away for awhile.

There were a few hopeful things he said in that conversation, so it wasn't all cr*ppy. Trying to keep it at hope instead of expectations.
-When we were talking about the whole replacing furniture thing to have complete sets, he said "If we got back together then I guess we'd have a bunch of furniture we'd have to figure out what to do with."
-I hadn't brought up anything about the cat today (we've already agreed he'll keep the cat, sad as it makes me, because she likes him much more than me), but he randomly said "If you get a cat and then we get back together... that will be a problem!" - our cat does NOT get along with other cats.

So, a few references to "if we get back together," which seems more hopeful than his previous statements of being "pretty sure, but not 100% yet that I want a D". *shrug*. Again, gotta leave it at hope and not expectations. I'm really annoyed still that when I was upset about how he wants to divide things, his response was "you're the one who decided to move." What does he think I should do? Just stay in the house indefinitely with someone who is pretty sure he doesn't want to be M to me? I know I shouldn't fire back with "well I wouldn't be moving if you hadn't come to the conclusion you've come to!" I'm having a hard time seeing his POV on this right now.

Oh, and then when I got home from book club, he said he was going to be gone for a few days here and there in June for "work and traveling" (and yet for a good 6 months before BD I tried to get him to travel with me and he wasn't interested) and asked if I might like to come be with the cat while he's gone. On the one hand, it would be nice to hang out with the cat. On the other, I don't know that I want to come back to the house and be reminded of everything or stress out about what has changed or knowing that he's gone and wondering who he's "traveling" with. It may be better just to cut all ties upon moving and let him figure out how to be a single cat parent smile

Today has just been rough overall. Starting to think about moving logistics is stressful. Also, my mom told me today that the newspaper back home called and asked for my phone # because they are doing a feature on the high school valedictorians from 10 years ago (I was one of them), a "where are they now" type of thing. That makes me stressed too because I don't know if anything about H or being married to my HS sweetheart is going to come up. It's a small town so it's fairly common knowledge, plus our families and last names are well known so it's not hard to connect the dots. Six months ago I would have loved to brag about being M to him. Now I just hope I don't have to say anything or can ask to leave anything personal out of it. I'm also a little anxious about it for my own personal reasons. I was voted "most likely to succeed", and the other valedictorians are all doing much more prestigious/highly paid things (physician assistants, pharmacists, in med school, stuff like that). And I'm basically a guidance counselor for college students. But, I know I am happy with the work I do, I'm good at it, my students like me, and I'm making a difference. Maybe I can throw in a few of my good "value of liberal arts education, you never know what opportunities may come your way so value the happenstance events" talking points in there wink

AND, our ten year HS reunion is this summer and the RSVP's are due soon. It's something I looked forward to going to w/ H for a long time, since we were in the same class and will both know everyone. Now I don't even know if I will be able to go if he's there and we are still S.


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
KGirl #2448103 04/25/14 12:29 AM
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More things happening. No real questions, I guess, just trying to jot everything down while it's fresh in my mind so I can reflect back on it later.

H came home from work and immediately started talking to me about his IC experience thus far. To try to summarize (my H is a long-winded person so just listening is not really that hard!), H has seen his IC 3 times now, and he's not sure if the person is a good fit, or if he just doesn't have the right expectations about what IC would be like. He spent the first time just venting/talking about whatever came to mind and stated his goals ("To figure out if I really should get a divorce, and how to be happy in my life"), and the last two times his IC asked him about his "family of origin". H said he didn't feel like his IC took any notes or remembered anything because he had to repeat a lot of things. He also feels like he is just talking to talk, rather than trying to come up with actions or solutions. He said he wants to have a plan to try to figure things out, and he doesn't feel like talking about his parents and life history is helpful. He said he'd try this person another time or two, bring up what he wants help with and that he wants to focus more on actions and stuff he can do to figure things out, and if he doesn't feel satisfied he'd switch to someone else. When he was about to leave IC today he asked the IC "so is there anything I should do before I see you again?" and the IC said "oh, I didn't give you a packet before?" and gave him a packet with some John Gottman excerpts. H feels like the person isn't competent because he was ten minutes late seeing him, doesn't give him assignments, forgets things, etc. :S I hope this doesn't turn him off completely from IC.

Here's the tricky part, for me: validating while also trying to answer his questions about whether or not this is what counseling is like (I have a master's degree in social work, so I do know what a counselor's role is and how they operate!). I affirmed that it sounds like he's frustrated so far and that he wants to try to do something, rather than just talk. I shared that it probably wasn't until the fourth or fifth time I went to IC that we started talking more about things to do or "homework" to work on. I affirmed that yes, it's not a bad thing to tell your IC what you are hoping to gain, and that you can lead the conversation towards what you'd like to talk about.

All in all, it seemed to be a good interaction of listening, validating, including some objective points about counseling (like "you're right, they aren't going to tell you what to do, but a good counselor will ask you questions and reflect back so that you can figure out what's right to do for you").

H noted that at the beginning of all this, he was really angry and frustrated. Now, he's indifferent and doesn't have strong feelings. I used a line I've seen on here a lot and said "I'm really sorry that I contributed to you being so angry and frustrated. I wish I could go back and change things and do things differently... but I can't. All I can do is go forward." To which he said "no, you don't need to be sorry, this isn't about you, it's about me." Which is confusing because he also had complaints about me but... I don't know. Maybe he's more realizing it is about him. Which then FURTHER confused me when he said "I mean, I'm pretty sure I know what the answer is going to be at the end of all this... but I just want to triple check to be sure." So it's not about me, there's nothing I can do, it's about him, but he still wants a D anyways. Not sure what to make of that. He also said things, though, like "I told the IC I really needed help figuring out my life because I really wasn't sure what to do." So many conflicting ideas "pretty sure I know the answer" vs. "really wasn't sure what to do." Grr.

I did learn a valuable lesson - 180's that are pursuing or instigating are NOT going to work. H said "I don't necessarily want to tell you things I was unhappy with, because then you try and do something different to show me you can, but I don't like it. Like when I said I wished you were more appreciative. You started thanking me for everything and I hated it, because it seemed forced, and like I was doing the things for YOUR benefit when I wasn't. I just want you to give me space and not do any of that stuff." It's the "too little, too late" refrain I see over and over on here - they don't want that stuff now! So any 180's need to be really focused on me, or reactive things, not going out of my way to show H something is different.


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
KGirl #2448186 04/25/14 01:51 PM
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Feeling kind of hopeless today, looking for some encouragement, feedback, and/or thoughts in general. H telling me he's pretty sure that he knows what the answer will ultimately be makes me really sad. He's so stubborn about things and when he takes a stance won't change it even when it is clearly not going to work out (not quitting a job when he receives a letter that he's about to be fired, for instance, because he still thinks he can turn things around). But, I see stories on here where the S said these same things and was stubborn, but still came around eventually and changed their mind. So, it's not necessarily for sure the end...right??

How do I reconcile "believe nothing they say" with accepting/validating where he's at right now so that he feels listened to? I think if I keep the attitude of not believing him, that will come out in my body language or things I might say, and it will make things worse. Is it more of an attitude of "I accept this is his stance at the current point in time... but am hopeful that that could change in the future?" He does keep referencing "If we get back together..." which I don't know that you'd keep bringing up if you were pretty sure you were done, so as to not give the other person hope. I can't help but feel like he's just saying that, though, to try and let me down easy.

I talked with the hometown newspaper today for the story they are doing on the valedictorians from 10 years ago. She did ask about family life - am I married, kids, etc. I just said "you know, that's kind of up in the air right now.. is it ok if we just skip over or leave out anything related to that?" and she said OK and left it at that. I am anxious that people will see I have a different last name and wonder why I didn't mention being M in the blurb... but I need to remember that while this consumes my life, other people don't care or wouldn't even notice the missing info. I feel like I sounded kind of boring - she asked me about my work, I talked about that and my educational background.. she asked if I any other personal things to share like traveling, hobbies, etc. I really couldn't come up with anything. She asked about pets so I said I had a cat... I guess this is my cue to try and develop more things that I can do. I feel like I have a busy life but it's nothing newspaper worthy, compared to the other people she's interviewing - they've spent extensive time traveling, moving to other countries, have blogs, etc. Honestly I don't think I NEED to do all those things to be happy, I'm pretty content with going to work, hanging out with friends, going to the gym, taking care of things around the house, but I just feel kinda down being compared to these people who are doing "exciting" things.


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
KGirl #2448194 04/25/14 02:14 PM
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KGirl, sorry you are down. It will get better!

In regards to validating- maybe just remember you aren't agreeing with him. You are simply acknowledging what he's saying, letting him know you heard it. He is clearly confused, which is better than if he was charging full speed ahead without looking back. I think it's just important to remember you can't control the outcome, but you may be able to influence it. There's a difference, and it could go either way. HE needs to come up with his own decisions on his own. Believe me, I am struggling right now, too. I understand how hard this is!

Re: to everyone else doing "exciting" things. Stop comparing yourself to other people! How boring it would be if we were all the same. I'm more laid back, too. My H decided back when all of this happened that he needed to do more exciting things (sorry that I have a special needs child and a full time job-at the time. I can't go out every night of the week.) he has admitted, btw that he really just is trying to keep himself busy to avoid thinking about things and living in reality... Not that everyone who does "exciting" things is trying to escape from life, but just remember not everything is as it appears on the surface.

Do what you like. Although, maybe try some new things to see if you might like to do those more "exciting" hobbies. You never know!!! smile

Hang in there!!! (((((KGirl))))


Me: 39
H: 45
Second marriage for both
H left 12/2013
M:4 T:5.5
artsy #2448950 04/29/14 02:21 AM
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It is raining like crazy here... and our downspouts are clogged...which means water is flowing down the sides of the house, leaking through the windows and flooding the basement. I'm working hard to not offer any suggestions or "fix" anything unless asked, and also not to stress about it (and make H even more stressed than he already is). Not much we can do until we can call a handyman tomorrow to clear the downspouts. Last fall we had gotten a quote on gutter guards. I offered that if we got them, we could pay for it from our joint account, despite the fact that I'm moving in a month. It seemed like the least I could do. I'm starting to feel guilty, like I'm saddling H with the house. I have to keep reminding myself that he wants it, and believes he can afford it, and doesn't want to sell it. H looked really good after coming in from the rain and taking his shirt off... smirk *sigh*

I'm working my way through "The Happiness Trap." I'm excited to get working on the part where I think about my values and making sure my actions are in line from them. I don't really find myself having negative stories or scripts about myself which seems to be more of a focus in the book. They are more externally focused - "Why is this happening to me? I've worked so hard in life,I don't deserve this." "Why is H being so stupid? How could I ever have believed him? I'm so angry at him."

H showed me his homework his IC gave him (which he hasn't done yet... but, I will not be reminding him or asking him about it!) It seems strange that his IC gave him some Gottman stuff to read, as well as an article about the five core values that couples can differ on and how neither extreme on the spectrum of each value is right or wrong. H told me his goal was to "triple check" that D was the right thing to do, so I'm surprised his IC gave him homework about making relationships work. Either stuff happened that I don't know about...or his IC is really not very attentive or good? :S Oh well. Guess it can't hurt.


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
KGirl #2448984 04/29/14 06:43 AM
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K Girl,

My h's IC (at the time ) used to tell him he had an unrealistic view of marriage. I thought she might "get through to him."

It will be interesting to see if your h will do the work and look at himself during his counseling. Just let him figure out his thoughts and focus on you. It's nice to hear you are excited about your move. You can make your new place just the way you want.



3 kids
BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. )
Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style
D final 9-9-14
"Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
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