KGirl con't #3

[Georgiabelle]

K Girl,

I'm not sure if this will help as I too like to think I know *exactly* what the future looks like. I've found the more I do that, the more disappointed I am. Gosh, I can't believe x? Or so now I guess I won't y?

In the last couple of months I realized by doing that I was setting myself up for disappointment. This weekend I caught myself going to "I'm sure I will be living x." I caught myself and said "I would like to x" and I didn't think about it or dwell on it further. I think the key is setting goals and making plans for yourself. However, realize that you can't control others and sort of let things be. I think once we realize we don't have to see exactly the way everything will be (and we can't), we can relax and enjoy things more.

I just read that and not sure if it made sense. Just be. Really. Focus on you and what makes you happy.

[labug]

labug, I like what you posted today. I kinda want to read it daily to remind myself of all those ideas

What I meant was, I have zero effect on my H. There is nothing I can do or say right now to make him reconsider his stance. I have to accept that, let him go, and focus on myself, instead of wanting to influence people and outcomes beyond my "reach" (I picture myself spinning in a circle with my arms outstretched and it's just me in that circle.. in that circle is all I can really worry about and improve upon). Yes, I do want answers, but I know no one can give me them. I want someone or a book or an article to tell me "Yes, moving will help, then he'll see what he's missing!" or "No, don't move, he can't see your changes!" or something of the sort, but there is no right or best answer.

Reading your post, I was first thinking "is labug saying I should con't to live with H so I can face the anxiety??" But I don't think that's what you're saying. When I reflect back on your past posts, your advice has always been to do what I need to do for me, and that regardless of what I'm going to do, it's not going to push him any further away. I found an apartment today that meets almost all my criteria (well, my last apartment would be ideal, but there are no openings there currently!). Free underground parking, a storage unit, lots of closets, a kitchen pantry, in-unit washer/dryer, right by a bus stop, a nice patio that doesn't face the freeway. I just keeping thing, though, that it's not the same as living in my house that I saved and dreamed for, and never will be. It's tough. Right now it's the hardest decision I've ever had to make. I feel like I'm giving up on our M even though I know in my heart and brain it isn't true. Who knows what may or may not happen in the future. All I know is the current situation and how I'm feeling, and that is that I don't want to be this person's roommate anymore.

This is a very good post, it's more about you than anything I've seen you write.

Letting go is difficult but it's doable. It's the fear that keeps us clinging to what we think will make us happy. Sometimes we stay in bad situations just because we're afraid.

Whatever you choose to do there will always be some fear and some anxiety, things are rarely ow we think they "should" be, learn to live with that. Be OK in the moment.

You don't know what tomorrow holds, or next week or next year.

[labug]

I think this is where your fear comes in the most, you don't know how to live life without certainty, the certainty we thought we had with M, our Hs, the future we had planned. Without things being black or white, we feel lost, out of control, afraid.

Life is uncertain and learning to live it while accepting the uncertainty makes it so much better.

That point where you accept uncertain

When I realized that everything was uncertain and I could either continue to live life filled with fear or accept life on life's terms, learn to live in the present moment and enjoy myself.

I'm a work in progress, it's a daily practice. IC has helped me, meditation has helped my, reading has helped me but I had to do the work.

[KGirl]

Couple of things today:

First, about me. I filled out the apt. application and am thinking I'll turn it in this week. It's entirely possible I may feel different tomorrow or the next day, but I'm trying to keep my mind open to the thoughts that come and explore what is making me anxious or stressed, and then let it go. It is scary to sign a year long lease, but there are sublease provisions so nothing has to be permanent, it can end up being whatever I want it to be. Part of the application asks me for my last three addresses... of course, I cannot remember my exact address back in 2008! So I called my mom to see if she had it in her address book somewhere, which then led to me letting her know I was planning to apply for an apartment. That conversation did NOT help my attitude and reminded me that I need to be careful about my support network - family is not necessarily a default 1st choice. She made comments like "so nothing's changed, huh? guess that's it, then" and was very sad, which made me very sad, etc. Need to keep reminding myself this does NOT mean I have given up on this relationship, or that there's no going back, despite what other people may think.

About H: Something he did yesterday makes me laugh looking back on it. I'm glad I can laugh about things now, that seems to be a good thing. I made some shredded BBQ chicken in the crockpot for myself and figured I'd just freeze all the extra for some other time. H kept talking about how good it smelled, it looked delicious, etc. etc. Eventually he asked... "Would you consider trading me some BBQ chicken sandwiches for Snickers ice cream bars? I have two boxes of them." ?! It's just funny to me. He picked out ice cream bars at the store but didn't think about actual dinner food. I thought about it and negotiated two sandwiches for two Snickers bars, which I will thoroughly enjoy because H paid whatever the ridiculous full price was (whereas I buy EVERYTHING on sale or with a coupon). So weird. But amusing He also told me he's playing soccer 4 times this week. Before all this, soccer was a contentious topic, and we had worked out an agreement that he couldn't play more than 2 times per week - each game takes about 2.5 hours of his time between warming up, changing, travel time, and the game itself. More than 2x a week meant that he wasn't doing much, if any, chores, much less have time for us to do anything together during the week (not to mention it's $15 per game). I'm not sure if that was me being controlling or setting reasonable boundaries - when he added more soccer, he took the time he'd spend with me or on household stuff to do that, rather than compromising time on his other individual "for fun" activities. I guess he's really let go of any obligations or commitments to me, but whatever. I made no comments or remarks about the 4 games this week, just ignored it, though internally it still annoyed me. I understand that it's not my business at this time but it still stings a little. I hope that in the future, regardless of who I'm with, we'll be able to have conversations about individual time vs. family time, acknowledge each other's needs, and be able to find a balance that works for both people.

[hope456]

KGirl - You are sounding stronger, which is great. I understand what you mean about family not being the best support network. Honestly, my mom doesn't even know. I've told my dad, one sister, and two close friends. When H and I were separated several years ago, I did tell my mom and she was terribly negative and I've decided I don't need that influence this time.

Need to keep reminding myself this does NOT mean I have given up on this relationship, or that there's no going back, despite what other people may think.

This ^^^^^ is so true. Only you get to decide when you are done. It sounds to me like you've really thought carefully about moving out and are doing it to take care of yourself, which is the right motivation.

[labug]

I hope that in the future, regardless of who I'm with, we'll be able to have conversations about individual time vs. family time, acknowledge each other's needs, and be able to find a balance that works for both people.

Yes!

[KGirl]

Blah. Well, I turned in my apartment application. Then I let H know I'd work on drafting up the agreement re: financials and whatnot that he could sign. Which led to all kinds of R talk...I tried to listen and validate but H also asked me a lot of questions about things so...

-H questioned why I was being so particular about the financial documentation. He said he wasn't going to scr*w me over, he'd be completely fair, etc. etc. According to him, once again, I don't trust him, just like always, but he did acknowledge that maybe him not saying anything to me about what was going on may have led to me not being very trusting. I noted that it was hard for me to trust him given what he's done, between walking away and the work OW. He, again, said that I never trusted him to begin with and this was always an issue. He then said something about how he doesn't want to talk to me about things/how he's feeling, because "based on some previous things" he feels I might use it against him in the divorce. ?? WI is a no-fault state so nothing makes a difference. He said I could still find a way to spin it. It's interesting that he insists he can be completely trusted in this process, but that I might spin things that have no bearing.

-Then, he got in on the work OW. He insisted he never cheated on me, and he would never date anyone or cheat while we were still married, and he was allowed to have friends, and he can't help that he might think of someone more than a friend but that wasn't cheating because you can't help how you feel. I said that it was a huge red flag that he kept this friendship a secret, and that it would be a different story if he had told me about her (or heck, even mentioned he worked with this person!) or mentioned they went out to lunch, maybe introduced us etc. I mean, I'm not crazy, right? This all seems reasonable and normal if you are meeting solo w/ someone of the opposite sex, that you'd fill your spouse in. His response? "If I told you you'd just go crazy and never want me to hang out with her. You don't want me to hang out with anyone but you." ?? It's like we're speaking different languages. I feel like I'm asking for some reasonable honesty and communication, and he feels like I'm making him a prisoner. I explained that I felt like what he was doing was still a form of cheating (maintaining this friendship when he felt more than friends about the person AND keeping it a secret) and he disagreed. He said that he wants to have friends from "all walks of life" and if he tells me about them I may not approve and then I'll tell him he can't hang out with them. I feel like my opinions are just not valued - if it doesn't fit with his beliefs, then I'm wrong, and therefore crazy and he doesn't have to respect how I feel. He talked about how he didn't make enough friends in the past, and he should have had a "backbone" to stand up to me, and he doesn't have to give me a detailed account of what he's doing and who he's with. I said there is an in-between between giving "detailed accounts" and keeping a friend entirely secret, that I imagine we could find a place where we'd both be happy. He was not convinced.

-Then, he said "what have you been doing in counseling all this time? You haven't changed at all. You still don't trust me and you can't let go of stuff, here you are bringing up the girl from work again." I said that for me to trust him, I would need for him to tell me that was done, he was truly sorry and understand how it hurt me, etc., and that I understand he may not feel that way now but that's what I would need in the future. His response: "No, I don't feel that way right now, I'm not really sorry for how I felt about her" and then proceeded to tell me that he just shouldn't have ever told me about that, and it was better if I just didn't know things.

-He asked why I said I couldn't be friends with him right now given how he's being, but still want to save our M. I explained that I see potential for change or for things to be different, and that's where I see the hope or desire to make a new M, but his actions and what he's doing right now are not what I want in my life.. but that doesn't mean it could be different.

-I got a little hopeful when he said he had no intention of using this physical separation to date, but to figure out himself and what he wants. But then, he said he had made a decision and it would be a "sign of weakness" if he were to back out. Umm... ok. I asked "so why haven't you just gone through with it, then?" He said "I need time to make sure it's the right decision." Not time to figure out what to do, or anything, but like I thought, confirm what he's already decided.

Eww, eww. But, this confirms I made the right choice turning in that application. We both need to do some serious soul-searching. There is no way he'd consider coming back unless I make some SERIOUS changes and they stick. At the same time, though, I feel like a lot of the things he doesn't like, aren't unreasonable. Maybe we just have different expectations about relationships and what is ok vs. what isn't, and it can't be resolved. I guess that will be my time to figure that out.

When I try and summarize this mentally... I feel like whenever I talk about something that has hurt me and ask for an apologize or acknowledgement of it, H just says he can't help how he feels, it was justified, etc., and pushes it away... which then makes me feel like it's unresolved and it comes up again.. which H then feels like I hang stuff over his head forever.. it's a never ending cycle. I guess I could be the bigger person and stop the cycle but why do I always have to be the one left unfulfillfed? Why can't he apologize and acknowledge it so it stops there?

[KGirl]

The other thing I need to think about and figure out: Am I an untrusting person and should be more trusting? Or is my H just an untrustworthy person? It's not clear to me right now, I'd like to believe it's the 2nd, but I don't know if it's possible to look at it more objectively. Maybe I just need someone in my life who is more open and honest and respectful, that would fit better with where I am naturally on the "trust" scale. I can work on that, but there's a point where it may just be my nature to not freely 100% trust everything people say and do. And maybe what he wants is someone who is just naturally always trusting and believing in the good in people.

[artsy]

KGirl, if there have been other things you didn't trust him with, then I'd say it was a problem. However, his R with OW (whatever he wants to call it) is inappropriate. Period.

[artsy]

^^^ I mean, if you were truly untrusting about many things when there was no real need to be.

Regardless, OW is a red flag.