Upwards - Moving Fowards, Tiny Positive Steps

[Upwards]

Previous thread: Upwards - DB myself to happiness! #2

Thought it was a good time to start a new thread DB has been amazing & really given me my confidence & strength back, the people here are amazing and i'm thankful for all the advice here (both positive & negative!).

I'm currently NC with my H to give myself some head space and get back on track - My plan is to focus on myself for the next couple of weeks, spend a lot of time GAL and also resting & relaxing. I'm intending to keep reading & researching and seeking out support when needed. This is only a temporary thing due to logistics of kids/work.

I have been clear to H that we cant be "friends" until he's completely ended the contact with OW permanently and is willing to show me proof of that, hence why i've gone NC - he's requested we come back together after 2 weeks to talk but i'm trying hard to have no expectations. If he's still not presented me with the proof I plan not to remain very LC & no emotional support until he does.

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What i've learnt from DB so far:

1/ From the moment I made the decision to "let go" of my marriage and old R, I was able to fully focus on myself and saw lots of positives in both myself, my H and our interactions together.

2/ GAL is one of the most crucial parts of DB and really helps with confidence, self-esteem & building yourself into the person that you want to be - I keep reminding myself to "be a woman only a fool would leave" and "be the best ME".

3/ I have been trying to see this separation as a gift of time, its allowing me to look deep within myself and deal with some issues/fears/feelings that have been buried for a long time - its giving me the opportunity to analyse my behaviors and feelings so that I can be the best me! I feel stronger than ever & although i'm very sad about my current situation i'm also thankful for the changes within myself. I realise that these changes are a big part of me being able to be happy regardless of what happens in my M.

4/ I've worked well at DB when i've kept my expectations under control, when expectations creep in then I end up hurt or disappointed. I have also learnt that hope is a positive thing when its not coupled with expectation.

5/ My DB efforts brought very positive changes for me. I've been feeling so much more confident & happier, I've detached a lot so that my H's actions don't affect me as much and I'm able to make much more logical decisions instead of decisions based on emotion.

6/ My DB efforts really brought my H closer to me & his attitude has begun to change, I noticed lots of very positive changes in his actions and how he has been around me as well as his openness & him being more positive about our situation - I need to continue my DB techniques and work hard to remain on track as I believe my H's feelings will continue to change if I handle the situation correctly.

7/ When I allow my emotions instead of blocking them out and trying to "get on with it" I find that the negatives pass more easily and i'm able to continue moving forwards, when I fight the bad days I tend to just keep having bad days until I accept it.

8/ Support from people on here & other places has been the main thing thats kept me going through the tough times along with support from family & friends - I couldnt have done it without the continued support of the people on this forum though!

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Main DB Techniques I've used sucessfully:

1/ No perusing & lots of space - I've let H contact me and not always been available or answered/replied when he does, i've not asked what he's doing or where he's going unless he volunteers that info - this has resulted in my H calling me lots.
2/ No pressure - I like the squirrel analogy here, i've noticed when there's no pressure he comes towards me & as soon as there's pressure he backs right off & his attitude changes. He's perused me much more when there is no pressure.
3/ Act As If - This has been a biggie, i've acted as though i'm happy/confident and ok with the situation. I've also acted as though i'm getting on with my life regardless of my H and that I have little interest in him. I've always been polite, just not overly friendly - he's commented on how he likes the "new me" a lot.
4/ Mystery - I've tried to create some mystery, new wardrobe & image, nights out that he doesn't know details of, being "busy" but not specifying what or who with etc. The "Act as If" also helps with this.
5/ No R talks about the future unless he's brought it up, even then i've tried to cut them short or change to subject so that it doesnt get too "deep" and uncomfortable - this has meant H has been starting these talks more often.
6/ Communication - I've really focused on communication and after trying lots of changes the following have been the most effective: listening, validating, no fixing, no interrupting, no telling my H how he feels, using "I" statements, sharing similar feelings.

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[scooby]

Wow upwards

You sound like you gave it really figured out! I struggled for almost five months and then found this site. It has helped tremendously to talk to those that have been thru it. My h is in mlc - which means I have years before he starts to recover.

I live what you are doing on your thread. Thanks for enlightening me and giving me more strength and hope.

[JennD]

"be a woman only a fool would leave" - great quote...

[claire7]

^^^^^ that is one of my new mantras. No matter what happens, that will keep me moving forward.

[hope456]

Upwards - You sound strong and positive. I'm really impressed with how far you've come so quickly in your sitch. This was a really great post!

[Breakdown]

Nailed it!

You are certainly talking the talk Just go easy on yourself when you fall....we all do. And then have the strength to get up and keep going.

[ye21]

Very good upwards!! Very proud of you , big clap clap for you!!

[Upwards]

Thank you tld, JennD, Claire7 & Hope456!

Glad to give some strength & hope At first I found it so hard as my emotions were so strong but the more i've detached the easier its become, I also try to see the bigger picture when things arent going so well & that helps me to see the positives too. I've also realised that the changes in my H are often very subtle but I know him very well so they're easy to spot once you know what to look for.

The main thing i'd say is if something feels like its going against what you'd normally do or feel like doing then DO IT - Its important to do what works!

I've been separated & living on my own with the kids now for nearly 8 months so I already KNOW that i'll be ok on my own, I think that's half the battle in the early days. Although it knocked me for 6 when my H decided to stop working at our M 3mths ago I was able to get back on my feet quicker as i'd already done some ground work before if that makes sense?

[Upwards]

Nailed it!

You are certainly talking the talk Just go easy on yourself when you fall....we all do. And then have the strength to get up and keep going.

Yeh its hard at times, I certainly didn't handle to OW situation as well as I could have however I've learnt from it so have to take that as a positive. Its not the end of the world & I do think that these next couple of weeks NC will be good for us both as the last period of NC brought some very positive changes for both myself & H.

I'm back up & keeping going... a little strange with NC again but sure i'll get used to it quick enough, the kids are off school to keep my occupied!

[Upwards]

Very good upwards!! Very proud of you , big clap clap for you!!

Thank you ye! Putting it all down like that made me realise just how far i've come in the past couple of months and thanks to DB!

[Upwards]

Day 2 of NC complete - cant believe how much easier this is now i'm much more detached! I miss him, but i'm not a complete wreck like I was a couple of weeks ago go me!!

Got lots planned this week for GAL, mainly with the kids as they're on holiday but also some stuff with friends too.

Our house goes on the market this week too - big step but certainly needed for both me & H, regardless of what happens with our M/R we both need a fresh start as this house holds so many negative memoriesn - its time for a new chapter in our lives, sad but excited, I suppose its normal to feel torn!

[3boymom]

Selling the house is a big step! I keep going back and forth as to whether I want to keep our house (assuming that is an option). Some days I feel like I want a fresh start and others I feel like we can make the house our own.

[Upwards]

I could stay here, H is happy for us to stay here & he'll continue contributing to the mortgage but I really do want a fresh start & think it would benefit me massively, we had already decided to put it up for sale last year but never followed through with it.

It holds so many amazing memories but also so many bad memories, it just feels the right time to move on & have a fresh start, new chapter for us all. H seems to think it will do our situation good too & that he'll feel better about things (thats not why i'm doing it though!!).

[Breakdown]

Day 2 of NC complete - cant believe how much easier this is now i'm much more detached!

Congrats!

I miss him, but i'm not a complete wreck like I was a couple of weeks ago go me!!

I'm not sure that will go away for a long time. I've been D'd for nearly a year and I still miss my XW. I still want to reach out to her occasionally. Of course, I don't miss the drama, or the stress, or the lies....so I still come out ahead

Our house goes on the market this week too - big step but certainly needed for both me & H, regardless of what happens with our M/R we both need a fresh start

That is a big step. I think that's part of moving forward....planning for YOUR life. You can't live like "if H does this, I'll do this." You have to start moving forward for you. If he snaps out of it, then you adjust. Until then, focus on what you want.

[Upwards]

Yeh I want to move to a house thats mine, although it will be rented at least it will be mine and will feel like a fresh start and a new chapter in MY life (and the kids).

If H decides he wants to work on things then he can fit in with ME & my life and not the other way around its been about him for long enough already!

[Upwards]

Question - I had a brief encounter with my H today as we had to sign some paperwork at the bank, as I was leaving he asked could we cut the NC to a week and pulled a sad face, I just laughed then changed the subject and left.

I told him last week that I wont be a part of his life and will stay NC/LC until he's ready to cut contact with OW permanently and shows me proof (I need this boundary to protect myself) - Should I have reminded him of this or just left it like I did & wait until he presents me with the proof?

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Completely mixed day today... all over the place, been getting the house ready so its led to a lot of different emotions.

Positives of Today
* The house it ready to go on the market.
* I'm excited about beginning a new adventure (sad too but mostly excited!).
* The kids have been well behaved & we've had fun!
* I've ticked lots of my "To Do" list.
* I've ordered myself some new glasses

[unbidden]

You did fine. No need to remind your H about your boundaries. Clearly, he knows about it since he keeps trying to get you to change it. Stay strong. You can do it

[Upwards]

You did fine. No need to remind your H about your boundaries. Clearly, he knows about it since he keeps trying to get you to change it. Stay strong. You can do it

Yes I've made sure he's very clear on it & that its non negotiable. If he asks again what do I say, I'll try to ignore or change subject but if I need to say something what could I say? I thought maybe "you know my boundary" or something like that?

[unbidden]

I wouldn't say anything at all, just move on to the next subject.

[Breakdown]

Clearly, he knows about it since he keeps trying to get you to change it. Stay strong. You can do it

Totally agree.

[Upwards]

Just received this email out of the blue from H. Steve was his addictions counsellor when he was in rehab, he's also counselled me as part of the family care. Tam is another counsellor at the centre.

Hi W,

I've had a 2 hour session with Steve and I let go of control I cried a lot, a few things have come up for me so I'm gunna have some counselling with Tam (Steve said he wouldn't do it because he cares for me, I thought it was nice of him to say).

He asked how you are doing. You have every right to be angry with me, I am sincerely sorry for it all.

[artsy]

Well, at the very least it's a start. Has he apologized before, or is this totally new?

[Upwards]

He's not said it like that no, he's said it in general when's he's not had much choice but not about the affair & not that sincerely really.

The main thing that's new is the tears & emotions, he's been struggling with guilt for a long time & withdrew from his friends/family into a safe bubble where he could pretend all was fine (to strangers!) so for him to speak to Steve is big - he's been avoiding him as he knows talking to Steve means facing the real truth & the consequences of his actions, the fact that he's doing that is HUGE progress for my H.

I'm unsure what he means by "things have come up for me" but sure he'll let me know when he's ready to talk. He's started the ball rolling with facing his fears & emotions, that's a big positive and something he's talked about doing for months.

I want to reply but not sure if I should, we are currently VLC/NC but I'm finding it hard not to want to tell him I'm proud of his steps?!

[tough spot]

If he is in the process of an awakening of some sort, I would be hesitant to interfere with that process.......

[Upwards]

Our son is poorly so I had to call H to come down so we can take him docs, he's on the sofa with him now.

I didn't mention the email and so he said "I was crying when you rang" so I asked why & he said "I've been crying lots in the past few days, I've given in & accepted who I am, I've been trying to pretend I'm someone that I'm not & been a horrible person. I'm tired of pretending, I just want to be me again" and teared up - I listened & just replied "I'm really glad". He said he'd seen Steve, that it's really helped him & he feels like a huge burden has been lifted because he's finally been able to ask for help & admit that he's in over his head, he said he's ready for face it now.

I didn't ask any questions or really reply, I just listened. I want him to process it in his own time & sure he'll talk if he wants to.

[Upwards]

He also asked did I want to go away with him?!! So that we can talk without the distractions of life & figure out what's going on... I just laughed and said "maybe!" then went to bed. What's that all about?!!

I think/hope I handled it ok last night? I remained detached but friendly, it came quite naturally - I kinda feel bad for not giving more support tho!! It's taken all of my self control (& more!!) not to contact him today!!!

[ye21]

I didn't ask any questions or really reply, I just listened. I want him to process it in his own time & sure he'll talk if he wants to.

Thats the key, you are doing great, step back and watch from a confi place, this is his road and its extremely important he walks this road himself.

You have been doing great, and it seems that its working, keep doing what it works.

Remember he has to figure it this out by himself and deal with fears that he has inside himself, he wants to go away with you? I think you need to be patient and don't be involved in going away with him, not yet.

He is probably going thrue a lot of emotions, some of those make him feel high so thats why he wants to go away with you, in my opinion he is not ready to have a chat about life with you yet....it requires more time, as an addicted he might be going thrue a emotional withdrawal from you so thats why his ups and downs, let him get a balance first, you will be able to see once he is more balanced

[Upwards]

Thats the key, you are doing great, step back and watch from a confi place, this is his road and its extremely important he walks this road himself.

You have been doing great, and it seems that its working, keep doing what it works.

Thanks, Right now we are NC (except for last night as son was poorly) so he'll have lots of space & I can't really do anything different at the moment. It's for the best right now though as he really needs the space at the mo.

he wants to go away with you? I think you need to be patient and don't be involved in going away with him, not yet.

He didn't mean at the moment, I won't be going anywhere yet - thanks for the concern though, it's something we could do further down the line if/when we both want to, I think he was "testing the water" to see if I'd want to.

[whytry]

Up, I can say my W did the same to me and it did allow me to reflect a little more. I was just beginning to see things for what they really were and ye21 is right we have to work past our own demons per se. Now would I have loved for her to get away...sure. BUT I wasn't ready then and still was fighting inside and holding a lot in. My clarity took minimum 6 months (when my W started DB) until I broke and I know she was trying before then. If he is similar to my sitch, he will have a heavy hearted talk with himself (you'll know when it happens) and the last detail he thinks of will flip the light switch so to speak. I woke up after that day and my whole view of the world was different. Didn't fix my WAS but I began to see myself happy again.

[Upwards]

My clarity took minimum 6 months (when my W started DB) until I broke and I know she was trying before then.

whytry were you the WAS? I'm confused!!
Thanks for sharing your story with me.

[Upwards]

Yesterday was my H reached 6mths "clean & serene" so I sent him a simple card to congratulate him, he text me this morning with the following:

Thanks for the card W, it means a lot. Do you want to go for something to eat to celebrate with the kids, i'll pay? x

So I replied:

Its ok you deserve it, i'm proud of what you've achieved. I would love to come for something to eat H & i'm sure the kids would too but I can't until your ready to respect my boundary x

Hope my reply was ok?

[ye21]

Hope my reply was ok?

Upwards Its important to set boundaries, also its important to show support, you did both, IMHO I would go with him to eat with the kids, that doesn't make anything "dangerous" and its a chance to have the kids in a family moment.

If you can go to eat something and avoid to talk about the R its fine, its different than go in a date with him, you will show him support, your kids will enjoy the company and you will encourage yourself showing you as stronger.

Its important for you to realize tho separate your R from family activities and also recognize his efforts, not to close yourself completelly, you understand?

[ye21]

Quote:
Its ok you deserve it, i'm proud of what you've achieved. I would love to come for something to eat H & i'm sure the kids would too but I can't until your ready to respect my boundary x

When you text something like that, the way you are showing yourself IMHO its with fear and also with expectations and for me the way to R should be, you do something "good" I get close to you, if you do something "bad" I push back, always pushing back might made him think continuously that he has to be "perfect" to have any chance with you, and that its very discouraging.

[Upwards]

When you text something like that, the way you are showing yourself IMHO its with fear and also with expectations and for me the way to R should be, you do something "good" I get close to you, if you do something "bad" I push back, always pushing back might made him think continuously that he has to be "perfect" to have any chance with you, and that its very discouraging.

I appreciate your reply Ye but i don't agree with you.

I don't see how that shows fear? I think setting a healthy boundary is about self respect, I don't expect him to be perfect, I just expect him to respect the fact that he shouldn't be in an emotional relationship (that has been physical) whilst married to me.

I'm not rewarding "good" behaviour, I think him cutting contact with the OW shows respect for me & is nothing to do with good/bad behaviour - I refuse to be on friends terms when he's still on contact with her, I refuse to put myself through that emotional pain continuously. If he wants to view it as discouraging then that his problem!

[ye21]

I'm not rewarding "good" behaviour, I think him cutting contact with the OW shows respect for me & is nothing to do with good/bad behaviour - I refuse to be on friends terms when he's still on contact with her, I refuse to put myself through that emotional pain continuously. If he wants to view it as discouraging then that his problem!

Oh oh oh ok , my bad here hehehe I tought that he had drop contact with OW thats why I was saying that, in that case I agree with you about that boundary

[Upwards]

Really struggling today, had a really emotional day & missing H a lot. It all seems so hopeless, I just keep wondering if I'm imagining all the positive stuff & whether I just need to accept its over & file for divorce.... I also cant understand why he values OW friendship more than mine that cuts deep!

[Tarheel]

Stay strong Upwards. As much as you'd like H to cut all contact with OW, he needs to do it on his terms. I've established the same boundary (thanks to you!) and I know that W/OM friendship will not just end overnight as much as I'd like it to. I think expressing our boundary wakes them up and forces them to make a decision on what's really important to them, but they need to feel that it's the right decision before making it. I'm right there with you!

[Upwards]

Thanks Tarheel, how you finding things?

I know that, I know he needs to do it himself & I know he's going through a process to do that, he's said his insecurities are stopping him as he's scared of being alone & having nobody to talk to. I wouldn't want to force him, it just hurts that by doing nothing he's actually choosing to cut contact with me.

I'm ill, tired & fed up I suppose

[Breakdown]

Really struggling today, had a really emotional day & missing H a lot. It all seems so hopeless, I just keep wondering if I'm imagining all the positive stuff & whether I just need to accept its over & file for divorce....

Remember, this is a marathon. When to quit or move on is an individual choice, but it does get easier. There are folks here that have literally been DBing for years.

You are going to have good days and bad, and that's ok. Just be good to yourself.

I also cant understand why he values OW friendship more than mine that cuts deep!

A little mind-reading there....you don't know that he values OW more than you.

Couple of things to consider here. First, usually when someone says they are done, they have been thinking about it a LONG time. Once they get to that point, they don't do a 180 easily, or quickly. Second, usually an OP is multiple things....easy, exciting, fun. Very difficult to give that up. And yes, long term, it probably wouldn't be any of those things, but when they are in it, they don't realize that.

So try to have some compassion and understanding for your H. Keep your boundary, but again, go easy on yourself.....this isn't about you as much as it's about him. Let him find his way.

[Upwards]

Remember, this is a marathon. When to quit or move on is an individual choice, but it does get easier. There are folks here that have literally been DBing for years.

Yeh I suppose its just a bad day, I just feel overwhelmed with it all today.

A little mind-reading there....you don't know that he values OW more than you.

He's made clear that he doesn't value her more than me & that its his insecurities that are stopping him cutting contact with her & his fear or being alone - I suppose it just feels that he values her around more than me.

Couple of things to consider here. First, usually when someone says they are done, they have been thinking about it a LONG time. Once they get to that point, they don't do a 180 easily, or quickly.

Yeh I didnt think of it like that, he's not been happy for a long time so know it wasnt an overnight decision.

Second, usually an OP is multiple things....easy, exciting, fun. Very difficult to give that up. And yes, long term, it probably wouldn't be any of those things, but when they are in it, they don't realize that.

He's said there is nothing romantic between them, she's just someone to talk to & a friend - he sees no future with her or anything like that. He's also said that he knows he needs to cut contact so HE cant figure out what he wants in our marraige, he's just scared. He said that he's "going through the process" and is "getting there" whatever they mean!

He's recently told me that she's told him to come back to me & work on things with me because he expressed his doubts...

So try to have some compassion and understanding for your H. Keep your boundary, but again, go easy on yourself.....this isn't about you as much as it's about him. Let him find his way.

I suppose i'm finding the NC difficult at times, it seems crazy to cut him out when I want him in my life... i'm having a war with myself over it at the moment but obviously cant go back on my boundary either?!

[Upwards]

See I'm worried that complete NC is just going to make us grow further apart & then we have no opportunities for positive interactions... It's really difficult to be completely NC because of the kids & business too.

If I move to LC/dark I don't want H to view it as though I'm going back on the boundary of me "not being in his life" or be "friends" whilst OW is either?

Thoughts on this?! Should I remain NC for the rest of the 2 weeks (as we planned) to see if he cuts contact then just go LC or do I need to tell my H that's what I'm doing?

[ye21]

See I'm worried that complete NC is just going to make us grow further apart & then we have no opportunities for positive interactions... It's really difficult to be completely NC because of the kids & business too.

The important thing here is to remember that you are living today, eating today, sleeping today, taking a shower today, tomorrow you might get the flu and all those things change, so what can you do about tomorrow?
You go NC because its necessary for you, without thinking in the outcome, you cant control people growing apart, its called letting go...if you let go, the universe takes care of that, you understand?
Live for today, you have many worth things to live for and if he grows apart, you will have to accept it, you will grow apart too.

Dont worry its normal that you have this kind of days, its called healing

[Upwards]

I understand that ye but we can't stay completely NC long term so at some point I need to take a step to change that because at the moment H's mum is being the person in between & I can only stay away from our business for a short time before that suffers.

I will need to go to LC/dark from complete NC in the next few weeks but I'm unsure how to do that as it will have to involve a discussion with H to change things... Plus I need to ensure that he isn't able to cake-eat as he absolutely will if he's able to.

[ye21]

Ok and if you decide to go NC for even 2 days, could you see how its not helping you at all to worry about how to get back to contact? You are worrying about the future and thats what I want you to see, start the NC and when you are close to the day that you have to contact him again, then that day we can give you advice about how and what to do, stick to your actions of today and let go of the future because you cant control it.

[Upwards]

Ok my H has told me he's cutting contact (for the kids) with OW for a month & will give me access to his phone account etc as proof. He said he'll see how he feels at the end of that whether we move towards a divorce or not - but he also said he likes the way things are for him & he doesn't want his feelings towards me to change because he likes his freedom.... So it all seems a bit pointless?!

[MamaB]

That sounds like a positive step Upwards! It seems he is trying to work things out for himself and needs some time. You really have been so patient, it is admirable. Hang in there.

[Upwards]

It also feels like we could be one step closer to divorce though or am I blowing this out of proportion?!

[unbidden]

It could be either one. Both would be mindreading at this point. Try to spend the next month figuring out what YOU want in a R and see if H really fits that. Hang in there

[Upwards]

Thanks unbidden

[sandi2]

Saw your request for me to take a look at your thread. I am flattered you've asked for my help, but I want you to understand I speak plain, so please don't get all sensitive over what I say, okay?

Like most women, and like most LBS's, you allow emotions to dictate most of your decisions. You will have to realize, expect, and accept that you are going to have hard struggles. But you cannot give over to your feelings when you are missing your H. You just have to feel whatever you feel right then......but don't act on it.

From what I have seen in your thread, this entire time has been like a dance between you and H. He pulls away and you follow him. You step back and it draws him toward you. Then he spins you around and it starts all over again. It doesn't work with a WAS who is in an A.

I am going to tell you what I have seen work the best, okay? You completely drop him. I know, you told him you've set him free, etc. But you really have not dropped him. B/c when you drop a man, you have NOTHING to do with him. plus, you don't bother to tell him anything. You just do it, and let him figure it out.

Have no contact with him! I saw where you would say you had not had contact with him for a few days......except through emails. But that is contacting! Texting, messaging, voice messages, ect., are still communication.

I don't know how you get around it when running a business together, but you need to figure it out b/c you will not be able to go forward until you do. By dropping him, you will discover how dependent on him you were. Learn to take care of you and the kids independent of him. He still should financially support his kids, but I mean in the day to day care of them, when he isn't scheduled to be with them. For example, when your son was feeling poorly. Why did your H have to be there at the house? Could you not take the child to the doctor by yourself? Now, if it was life threatening, or even required going to the ER, you could contact H to meet you there. If it is an emergency with the kids, he does need to know, but how many times is it an emergency?

I am not trying to be snarky here, b/c I honestly don't think a LBS sees themselves making excuses to contact the WAS. Like I said, if it is not something urgent or critical with the kids, ask yourself what you would do if H was no longer on earth. How would you handle it. This will not only make you a stronger woman, but your self esteem will grow with your independence. Which, that is a good thing!

I have read where LBW'S ask, "But what if he thinks I don't need him, or don't want him any longer? What if he thinks I don't want to save our M?". That's exactly what the WAS should believe! It does more than anything you could ever say to him.

The more you try to get him to make up his mind of what he wants, or decide between you and OW, the longer he will continue the dance. He has to believe he has lost you! You have have a few days at a time, then you cave to his contacts b/c you believe he is "trying" and you are a goner! It simply doesn't work that way.

Since the two of you are S, it will be easier to live your life as though he no longer was around. No more excuses made for him or yourself. Have a child visitation schedule.....and any other child related activities.....and stick to it. Do not use the kids as an excuse to contact him.

Don't answer your phone. Don't respond to email, unless it is an urgent matter. And if it were urgent, he wouldn't email. Let it go to voice mail, unless you have caller ID, then just don't answer his calls. "But wouldn't that be rude?". He cheated on you, so don t worry about showing good manners to the man. You really have to get tough.

You see, he broke your heart. Yet you are so eager to get him back. He knows it. It is very unattractive to a WAS who is in an A. And it doesn't matter if he is actually sleeping with her or not. She is in his head! And as long as she is in his head, your M won't be successful. He will bounce back and forth.

Ok my H has told me he's cutting contact (for the kids) with OW for a month & will give me access to his phone account etc as proof. He said he'll see how he feels at the end of that whether we move towards a divorce or not - but he also said he likes the way things are for him & he doesn't want his feelings towards me to change because he likes his freedom.... So it all seems a bit pointless?!

This is complete BS! Yes, it is pointless! He told you once before how he told OW he was ending contact out of respect for you. He doesn't respect you. I hope you see it. And furthermore, he won't go a month without some type of contact with OW......b/c he is addicted to the thrill of the A. You can read about how it woks if you google it.

When a man breaks a woman's heart, it is important that she has a lot more spunk than spit. IOW, don't talk to him, don't share what you've learned, don't act helpless, don't let him see your pain, don't give him needy looks, and don't get emotional around him. Look like a million bucks, act as if you are on top of the world, and.......act as if you have a little secret that is making you very pleased. You are totally disinterested in him or what he decides to do. You have decided to be happy with your life.

Sure, it will all be an act in the beginning. That is no worse than you using DB techniques only to get him back. Just as we tell the LBS to keep working on their improvements until they become real & lasting, you keep doing these things until it feels natural. It not only makes you more attractive (even if it may not sound as if it would), it will shake him up more than anything you have done. But now this very important.........when he makes his first few positives steps in the right direction.......you do nothing. You are not impressed! B/c he needs to prove he is over OW, which only time will show. And btw, you do not tell him that he needs to stop seeing her or anything else. You have already told him these things. When he gets serious about saving the M, you won't have to tell him. Besides, when you tell what he needs,to do to save it, it is telling him you are still interested in being M to him. Understand? He needs time to be free and do his own thing (even though he has been doing it), and he needs time to get his sh1t together. If he thinks he can't play you any longer, he will get serious about wanting you back. If he believes he has lost the best thing that ever happened in his life, he will get serious. Up to this point, he hasn't truly been serious. He knew he hadn't lost you. You put pressure on him and it made him think M to you doesn't sound as good as being free.

Oh, and for goodness sake.......don't be his friend. That is the same as serving them cake to eat.

When I say this takes time, I am not talking just a few months. But if you stand a shot at busting a D, this is the way you need to go. You don't have to file, if you don't want to. But you do need,to do these other things to show you no longer care what he does.

[Upwards]

Hi Sandi, thank you so much for your input - I want the truth so thanks for that. I've tried to answer as much as I can below.

I am going to tell you what I have seen work the best, okay? You completely drop him. I know, you told him you've set him free, etc. But you really have not dropped him. B/c when you drop a man, you have NOTHING to do with him. plus, you don't bother to tell him anything. You just do it, and let him figure it out.

Have no contact with him! I saw where you would say you had not had contact with him for a few days......except through emails. But that is contacting! Texting, messaging, voice messages, ect., are still communication.

The emails are work only, he does add personal to me but I never reply and keep it to business - I ignore his texts & calls and eventually he will email or voicemail if urgent. I don't contact him, he always contacts me and I either ignore or call back later. We cant have no contact long term because of the business, its impossible long term which is why we've been using email every few days to liase and even that cant go on much longer as I need to be at work to carry out some tasks.

By dropping him, you will discover how dependent on him you were. Learn to take care of you and the kids independent of him. He still should financially support his kids, but I mean in the day to day care of them, when he isn't scheduled to be with them. For example, when your son was feeling poorly. Why did your H have to be there at the house? Could you not take the child to the doctor by yourself?

I rely on my H for nothing anymore, I do not have any help from him except for the days when its arranged that he has the kids in his care. Other than that I do everything myself & have for the best part of 8 months whilst he was in rehab etc. I used to rely on him heavily but after kicking him out I didnt have a choice but to do it all myself (he was in the gutter!) and from that i've grown in so many ways, as a mother and as a person - I am confident in my abilites to bring up my kids on my own and certainly dont NEED him, although I do WANT him around.

My H had to come down a few nights ago because our daughter was in bed asleep, it was 11pm and it would have meant me getting her out of bed and taking both kids to the doctors with me - it just wasn't practical & its only on rare occasions like that where I will ask for his help otherwise I do it on my own and am used to doing that.

I dont feel as though I do rely on him anymore, he's not been around to depend on but maybe i'm wrong.

I am not trying to be snarky here, b/c I honestly don't think a LBS sees themselves making excuses to contact the WAS.

I admit I did used to do this up until a few months ago, i'd find an excuse to call him or see him but I dont do that now and make a point of not doing that (even when its really difficult and i'm struggling).

This is complete BS! Yes, it is pointless! He told you once before how he told OW he was ending contact out of respect for you. He doesn't respect you. I hope you see it. And furthermore, he won't go a month without some type of contact with OW......b/c he is addicted to the thrill of the A. You can read about how it woks if you google it.

Last time he told me he was cutting contact I was pressuring him, I cornered him & gave him no choice (I regret this now) and he said that he didnt want to just go behind my back and wanted to do it when HE was ready and not because I was telling him to so he's been "processing" it over the past few weeks and spoken to his counsellor etc.

I haven't mentioned it since, he came to me this morning and told me he hes ready to cut contact and will show me the proof I need - when I asked if this was permanent he said "its to see how things go & to allow me to see what I want, I know its the only way forwards for me to see how I really feel".

He's said I can have full access to his phone records, email, facebook and he will block her number so that she cant call him - its exactly what I asked him to do?

When he reduced contact with her right down his actions towards me completely changed and he started to show me respect, saw me as a person with hopes & dreams, showed compassion and actually seemed to care about me and my feelings again - he admitted that his feelings for me were beginning to grow and he admitted that the future for us seemed much more positive. I then cut contact with him because I refused to be in his life whilst the OW was. I was hoping the next few weeks along with his IC and my own work & DB that it might be positive for us - am I wrong?

Look like a million bucks, act as if you are on top of the world, and.......act as if you have a little secret that is making you very pleased. You are totally disinterested in him or what he decides to do. You have decided to be happy with your life.

Exactly what i've been doing when we've had contact, I've been "acting as if" i'm happy, enjoying life, not bothered about him or our M, moving forwards without him etc etc.
I'm not sure but my behaviour over the past month has sparked his interest enough to make him assess his own situation and how he needs to move forwards, could be a coincidence and may not, I dont know.

If he thinks he can't play you any longer, he will get serious about wanting you back. If he believes he has lost the best thing that ever happened in his life, he will get serious.

Me toughening up and sticking with the NC (I know it wasnt a long period but in our situation its long if that makes sense!) and me showing him that i'm absolutely serious about staying NC for the foreseeable future seems to have given him a kick up the ass, he's actually taken steps to see his counsellor again and deal with his "fears" etc. I know its only small steps but they're certainly steps and before this past few weeks he was just burying his head in the sand.

Oh, and for goodness sake.......don't be his friend. That is the same as serving them cake to eat.

So no positive interactions or anything like that? I don't mean like BFF's I just mean "friendly" when dropping/collecting the kids etc.

When I say this takes time, I am not talking just a few months. But if you stand a shot at busting a D, this is the way you need to go.

I'm really not sure I can do this for months, its been going on 8 months. I suppose i'll know when i've had enough.

[sandi2]

So no positive interactions or anything like that? I don't mean like BFF's I just mean "friendly" when dropping/collecting the kids etc.

Just be polite, the same way you would treat a stranger. I know this seems a little overboard, but it all adds up to him realizing the R he lost with you and he doesn't get it back by picking up the kids. I would say to do like this when at work, etc. You don't have to show a angry face or anything. You can smile and speak in a friendly tone. But I wouldn't start joking around or throw compliments, etc. I am not sure how you mean positive interaction. In time, you may be able to be a little more friendly, but as long as he is involved with OW while he's M to you, why would you knock yourself out? Am I making sense? If not, I will try to clarify.

As long as you respond through emails about work only, I suppose that beats talking in person or over the phone.

It sounds like you have improved from where you were. I did spot read your thread, trying to catch up so I could respond to you. So, it is good to hear what you say today.

You said your H was in the gutter when he went to rehab for his drug addiction. In a sense, he has to reach that place with his affair/OW addiction. Sometimes it doesn't have to get to that place, but when it continues as long as your H's has, it may. That is why he has to realize what he's lost and decide if OW is worth it.

He's said I can have full access to his phone records, email, facebook and he will block her number so that she cant call him - its exactly what I asked him to do?

Well, I will say this.........where there's will there's a way. KWIM? Pay as you go cell phones, start a new email account, etc. But the red flag I see is him putting a deadline of a month on this supposedly no contact with OW. That just speaks to me that he is not serious enough.

When you say he admitted certain things about his feelings growing, etc. I think of the word "admitted" as an answer given when one is prompted or questioned. To me, it's not quite the same as when it is volunteered information. Were you asking him these things?

I can't stress enough how important it is that he has OW out of his system before your M will be successful. His feelings for you are affected by his addiction to OW. He will have to actually go through a withdrawal period. When the strong craving to contact OW hits him.....that's when his resolve will fizzle........"if" he is going by his feelings. He is giving it a try for a month to see how he "feels". He will either be very confused or mistake his craving for love. He needs to make his decision based on what is the right thing to do, and not just on his feelings. But I don't think you are in a position where you can tell him. I am just trying to explain to you. Plus, if he thinks he is doing exactly what you have asked of him........then he will believe he's done his part. But ending contact is simply the first step.

If it takes time for him to process things in his life, you can certainly hope that some time away from OW is better than no time at all. It just doesn't solve his problem until he decides to permanently end it. And back to the subject of how friendly you should be........since he believes he is doing what you have asked, you can use this time to be more pleasant and friendly towards him. But if he doesn't end things with OW after the month is up, then I would certainly limit my friendliness.

Have you considered selling out your share of the business? If you end up getting D, it could be very uncomfortable.

[Upwards]

Just be polite, the same way you would treat a stranger. I know this seems a little overboard, but it all adds up to him realizing the R he lost with you and he doesn't get it back by picking up the kids. I would say to do like this when at work, etc. You don't have to show a angry face or anything. You can smile and speak in a friendly tone. But I wouldn't start joking around or throw compliments, etc. I am not sure how you mean positive interaction. In time, you may be able to be a little more friendly, but as long as he is involved with OW while he's M to you, why would you knock yourself out? Am I making sense? If not, I will try to clarify.

I plan to stay NC (just email for work) until he cuts contact with OW anyway so wont see him or speak to him really anyway. I was asking about being "friendly" if/when he cuts contact with her.

As long as you respond through emails about work only, I suppose that beats talking in person or over the phone.

It sounds like you have improved from where you were. I did spot read your thread, trying to catch up so I could respond to you. So, it is good to hear what you say today.

Massively! It may not come across in my posts as I use this place to vent my anger, upset, insecurities etc but on the whole i'm doing REALLY well. I'm happier than i've been in a long time & although my M is over I'm glad in a big way as it's given me to opportunity to do some work on myself and i've grown so much already from this experience. I'm no longer insecure, scared & feeling worthless - I know my worth now, I know that I deserve to be loved & treated right and my confidence is through the roof after loosing 3 stone I'm a new person now, I feel happy with the person that I am and feel like "me" for the first time in a long long time, it feels good!

You said your H was in the gutter when he went to rehab for his drug addiction. In a sense, he has to reach that place with his affair/OW addiction. Sometimes it doesn't have to get to that place, but when it continues as long as your H's has, it may. That is why he has to realize what he's lost and decide if OW is worth it.

I dont know for sure but I think this realisation may have begun to set in as he's told me many times that he knows he has no future with OW and that she's just a friend but he knows there may be a future for us somewhere down the line. Since I exposed it things really cooled down & I suppose the excitement began to fade as it wasnt a secret anymore.

He's also begun to show remorse for what he's done recently & apologised etc where as before that he was acting as though he'd done nothing wrong.

The fact that he's restarted his couselling is a BIG step too as they are "no holds barred" and will tear him apart, they arent like your usual nicey nicey cousellors. They are addiction counsellors, they speak the absolute truth and so he'll have to face up to his behaviors, actions and the consequences. He's been saying he's going to go for months but has finally done it so its a step in the right direction.

Well, I will say this.........where there's will there's a way. KWIM? Pay as you go cell phones, start a new email account, etc. But the red flag I see is him putting a deadline of a month on this supposedly no contact with OW. That just speaks to me that he is not serious enough.

I probably didnt explain it very well in my original post - he said he's cutting contact "until we know what is going on in our marriage" and when I asked how long he expected this to be he said about a month, I said that I didnt think a month was very long and he said "i'm not putting a time limit on it, i'm just going to take it step by step and see what happens, thats all I can do".

When you say he admitted certain things about his feelings growing, etc. I think of the word "admitted" as an answer given when one is prompted or questioned. To me, it's not quite the same as when it is volunteered information. Were you asking him these things?

No I say admitted because I could tell his feelings were changing because of his actions & attitude towards me but I didnt say anything & he just made small hints like "I've really enjoyed your company this weekend" and "my feelings are beginning to change" and I just left him to it & didnt question.

A couple of days later he called me to tell me that he was beginning to get his feelings back for me & that the future seemed much more positive for us etc then he majorly panicked and backed off (by his own admission) - after this convo I went NC because of OW as I didnt want to get pulled in whilst he was in contact with her.

He needs to make his decision based on what is the right thing to do, and not just on his feelings. But I don't think you are in a position where you can tell him. I am just trying to explain to you. Plus, if he thinks he is doing exactly what you have asked of him........then he will believe he's done his part. But ending contact is simply the first step.

He said he's doing this because its what is right & he knows its the right thing to do for HIM, I've stressed to him that I DONT want him to do it because i've asked him it needs to be because HE has decided to do it.

If it takes time for him to process things in his life, you can certainly hope that some time away from OW is better than no time at all. It just doesn't solve his problem until he decides to permanently end it.

He's the type of person who has to experience it to see if its the right thing. I am tempted to ask him if he plans on ending the contact permanently if things between us go well or just to leave it?

And back to the subject of how friendly you should be........since he believes he is doing what you have asked, you can use this time to be more pleasant and friendly towards him. But if he doesn't end things with OW after the month is up, then I would certainly limit my friendliness.

Yes thats my plan, i'll go dark as I really dont want to be around him whilst her or any other OW is in his life.

Have you considered selling out your share of the business? If you end up getting D, it could be very uncomfortable.

Yes i've considered it however its a fairly new business & will be worth a lot more in a few years so i'm reluctant to walk away yet - we have discussed it & I could just become a silent partner until i was ready to sell.

[sandi2]

Okay, thanks for clarification.

He's the type of person who has to experience it to see if its the right thing. I am tempted to ask him if he plans on ending the contact permanently if things between us go well or just to leave it?

I would not ask until he begins to talk about seeing you more, etc. B/c it sounds very pushy. You have ever right, no doubt about it, but it wouldn't be a good move at this time. However, there will be a come a time, if you still need assurance he will not contact OW ever, and you can tell him.

[Upwards]

Tough few days but thankfully think I'm coming out the other side, my hormones really play havoc with my emotions & detachment, need to take note next time & be prepared for it!! Hoping tomorrow will be brighter as feeling a lot more level headed now, phew!

H has cut contact with OW, he's given me access to his phone account & will show me he's blocked her etc when I next see him - I have no idea how long it will last (he says there is no time limit on it, until we know what's going on with us) so I suppose just need to keep my distance but it means as can interact about the kids/business etc. I'm remaining "dim" at the moment, leaving him to do the contacting & not always answering when he does, no pressure & lots of space, no R or future talks - I've done some new small goals and refreshed my 180s, focusing on GAL and being confident/happy.

I would not ask until he begins to talk about seeing you more, etc. B/c it sounds very pushy.

OK thank you Sandi, makes sense & I know timing is important.

[Upwards]

Me & H had a heated discussion yesterday, both expressed our feelings & I think it needed doing to be honest to clear the air. We both said some quite hurtful things, some in anger & some the truth, not really DB but a lot of it needed saying. We both apologised afterwards & called a truce.

We've both agreed on the following:
* We dont want to be together right now.
* We're about 90% sure we're heading for divorce.
* There is a chance our feelings will change in the future.
* Neither of us want all this animosity & stress.
* We're going to concentrate on the kids/business and selves.
* We both need time to heal & for things to settle.

So at the moment i'm keeping contact minimal and to kids/business, H was being quite cold towards me & very distant again but hoping our discussion last night cleared the air. We both need some time & space. I'm going to take H's lead really, if he begins to contact me more then i'll use some of the DB techniques that have helped us in the past but until then i'm "acting as if", being friendly and working on myself.

I'm beginning to try to prepare myself for divorce not sure how much I can really "prepare" but i'm expecting the worst now & anything else is a bonus - still have hope though, I think I always will.

I've been struggling with detachment in the past few days, I suppose there has been a lot going on so that may be why but I want my head to control me & not my emotions - H's affair has been forefront of my mind because of him cutting contact so i've been thinking about that a lot, I cant trust him right now so i'm understandably worried that he's just going to continue contact somehow but that's not in my control. Any tips on how to change my thinking on this?

[Breakdown]

First, I'm really glad Sandi dropped in....I'm a huge fan of her advice. She's straight to the point and dead on.

Me & H had a heated discussion yesterday, both expressed our feelings & I think it needed doing to be honest to clear the air.

I'm going to challenge you on this. Why do you think having a heated discussion clears the air? Why do you think saying anything at this point improves the situation?

Yeah, I'm sure you felt better getting some things off your chest....but that's not really my question.

I'm beginning to try to prepare myself for divorce not sure how much I can really "prepare" but i'm expecting the worst now & anything else is a bonus - still have hope though, I think I always will.

I do think you can mentally prepare to an extent. Accepting it actually can remove some stress. The uncertainty of "am I or aren't I" really is an unhealthy place.

Also, you can start getting your ducks in a row....consult an attorney, start planning YOUR future, protect yourself.

...so i'm understandably worried that he's just going to continue contact somehow but that's not in my control. Any tips on how to change my thinking on this?

This one is difficult, and will take some time. First, you have to accept that you can only control you....regardless what you would like your H to do, that's for him to decide. Second, you have to accept that you will be ok regardless of your H's decisions. Again, it's going to take some time and some practice, and throwing in some GAL is incredibly helpful as well.

[ye21]

Hello Upwards

IMHO everything its being rushed towards something you knew already...D
Whats the difference now? That you have a more exact percent?
I believe in this case the fear took control of the situation and it was no patience around.

I really cant see how that conversation could help, yes its a way for you to receive Reasurance and drop your hopes, it seems that you love him so much that you can only letting him go if you make sure there is no chance...
Again in my opinion that conversation, was a way of controlling things, and as you see now you are still wondering if you should contact him or not...

We worry about those things because we want to control, its like a drug for us and if we don't withdrawal then...
The proper way for that not to affect you its letting go, reading DB again and definitly the book "the power of letting go"


Keep an eye on that 90% and a few of those points because I think they will do some effect in the next coming days or weeks.

Upwards you been doing great, you need to GAL and focus on you, this is your sitch and you have to learn to let go of control, you can't control how all this its gonna go, you are trying to do exactly that and its not going to work, its like a fog that will trow you down over and over....

Your H asked for D a long time ago, you have been doing great in many ways, I believe and maybe I am seeing this different, that you see him as an addict and you still think that you can help him in a way and rescue him out of his problems...

Could I ask you something?
Did you have this conversation with him "with an intention to wake him up"?

[Upwards]

Thanks Breakdown

Why do you think having a heated discussion clears the air? Why do you think saying anything at this point improves the situation?

It was my H that requested we talk - I was basically tired of him not having any empathy towards me & called him on it (prob shouldn't have but I spent a long time being too afraid to say how I felt & so I just did it, I wish I hasn't but it's done now. He got angry then admitted it's because the guilt overwhelms him. It wasn't a big row, just a few things said that had been building up for us both I suppose.

I do think you can mentally prepare to an extent. Accepting it actually can remove some stress. The uncertainty of "am I or aren't I" really is an unhealthy place.

Yes that makes sense, I'm getting there slowly I think.

First, you have to accept that you can only control you....regardless what you would like your H to do, that's for him to decide. Second, you have to accept that you will be ok regardless of your H's decisions. Again, it's going to take some time and some practice, and throwing in some GAL is incredibly helpful as well.

I know I can only control me & I'm trying that to the best of my ability, trying hard to remain detached but keep backsliding - been doing a lot of soul searching & I'm trying to figure out WHY I keep backsliding so I can work on it.

My GAL has been slow because of the kids being off school so that's probably impacted, I feel like I've had very little "me time" recently.

[Upwards]

Your H asked for D a long time ago

My H has never asked for divorce & said on many occasions that he doesn't see divorce as an option at the moment. We both agree thats where it looks like it might be heading, but neither of us want to take that step yet as neither of us really knows what we want - me included.

you have been doing great in many ways, I believe and maybe I am seeing this different, that you see him as an addict and you still think that you can help him in a way and rescue him out of his problems...

Believe me I KNOW that I cant rescue him from his problems! I tried for a long time to help him but I know now that there is only one person that can help him & that's himself. I understand how you may think its that way but i'm way beyond that stage, I spent months in counselling alongside his rehab & know that none of it is my fault or within my control.

Did you have this conversation with him "with an intention to wake him up"?

He asked for the conversation - I know nothing I do or say will "wake him up" and the convo was nothing like that anyway. I was angry so he asked me to tell him why, I expressed that I would not tolerate being treated like crap by him or anyone else & the way he'd spoken to me earlier in the day was not fair (it was way out of line!). It may not be strictly DB but it needed saying, I will not tolerate being treated like rubbish!

He got angry - then apologised & took full responsibiltiy and agreed that it was wrong of him to speak to me like he had, he was tired & I caught him in a bad mood.

[Upwards]

Much better day today thankfully

For the past few days i've been beating myself up wondering why I was struggling so much to detach... i've realised today that I was just having a few "growing days" and I needed to be brought down to the brink of insanity in order to get back up and feel even stronger need to remember that next time i'm struggling, it was nothing to do with not being detached enough!

I've realised today that I don't have any urge to call my H, I don't even particularly want to answer when he calls, his words go over my head & half the time I'm not even listening, his opinions on me & where I am don't affect me much, I don't think about him anywhere near like I used to, his negative talk is easier to ignore now... I'm assuming these things mean I'm going in the right direction for detaching?!

[Upwards]

It's oh so quiet, shhhhh shhhhh!! lol.

Been to the beach enjoying the sunshine with the kids, my parents & brother today - lovely day! Difficult moments as my H would always have been with us in the past so i had to try & block that out, makes me sad more than anything but I know that's pretty normal. The kids had a fab day & that's the main thing!

[paul19510]

I am glad you enjoydd ghe beach. (((Upwards)))

[Breakdown]

need to remember that next time i'm struggling, it was nothing to do with not being detached enough!

I recommend going back and reading your threads as you progress. Sometimes you feel like you are sitting still, but when you go back and read your story from another time's perspective, the ways you have changed and grown jump out at you. I still re-read my bootcamp thread occassionally and I'm shocked at the difference....not in just what I say, but how I feel.

Keep your head up

[Upwards]

Yes I should read back more when I'm feeling down, will probably help me get things into perspective too.

Feeling quite sad tonight, feel a great sense of loss of the family unit, I haven't felt that for many weeks. Maybe that's because I've been so overwhelmed with H's actions & affair, I feel like I've progressed a little with that recently (its been on my mind a lot) so maybe that's why the sadness relating the the family is back.

I'm also finding detachment strange, I don't like it in a lot of ways, suppose it's a very different & new feeling - I know it needs to be done though & is the only way forward, it's just strange too. I'm torn between relief & sadness!

[Upwards]

Ok my H's love languages are "Acts Of Service" and Words of Affirmation" - the words one is easy enough but the "Acts Of Service" is a little more difficult & I think this is his main LL as this is how he's always shown me his love - any ideas on how to do this whilst separated?

We work together (joint business) sometimes so I do bits there but the rest of the time this is difficult, especially when I'm trying to back off & let him take responsibility for things.

[Upwards]

I've had such a lovely couple of weeks with the kids & we've had so much fun! It's really affected my personal GAL stuff though so I'm looking forward to getting some "me time" this week

I've been trying to find some new/different 180s to add too but struggling, any ideas?!

[Upwards]

The keys to patience are acceptance and faith. Accept things as they are, and look realistically at the world around you. Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen - Ralph Marston.

I know we've not necessarily chosen how we got here but we can choose where we go from here!

[claire7]

Amen to that. The path upwards may not be in a straight line (it may look like a stock market graph with some dips here and there), but we are definitely moving upwards, right?!?

P.s. how do you know your husband's love language? Just based on experience or had you and he discussed that in the past?

[artsy]

^^ Claire, if you read the book (5 LL), you should be able to determine his LL. It usually is fairly obvious. It's a short book, only took me a couple hours to get through.

[Upwards]

Amen to that. The path upwards may not be in a straight line (it may look like a stock market graph with some dips here and there), but we are definitely moving upwards, right?!?[quote]
I like to think so at times it doesnt feel like it but when I look back to only a few weeks ago that is proof enough!!

[quote]P.s. how do you know your husband's love language? Just based on experience or had you and he discussed that in the past?

There is a quiz here: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/ I did it for what I thought my H would answer although I was already pretty sure his main LL is acts of service as thats the way he's always shown love. If you read the book we often show love in our OWN love language naturally instead of our spouses love language, the book is worth a read!

[Upwards]

I've had lots of very positive interactions with H recently, i'm staying back & giving him lots of space but when we are together he's been really friendly & seems to genuinely like having me around. No expectations, but not complaining either

My D6 is struggling today which has been hard - she's been very angry the past couple of weeks and really misbehaving so I asked her what was making her so angry and she burst into tears and said that she wants daddy to live with us forever etc very hard, wish I could take it all away for her! She spoke to H on the phone who reassured her lots & I had a big talk with her so hoping she'll be ok, going to talk to her teacher at school too to keep an eye on her there.

[Upwards]

I'm finding it difficult at the moment because it feels like my H is coming back (yet new & improved!) gradually and it makes me miss him all the more, i'm glad that he's doing well of course but when we're getting on well it reminds me of what i've lost. I know I should see it as a positive that we get on so well & are getting closer but obviously it brings sadness too.

Tonight he called to see if I'm ok, he could tell I wasnt so I just said that I was having an emotional day and not to worry i'll be fine, he asked if there is anything he can do and said that he's "so sorry that he's putting me through this" then said "you are a amazing Mum & wonderful woman, never forget that" - this attitude is very new, real remorse & genuine concern, its nice that he's finally noticing me for who I am too!

Feeling very sad tonight as been doing lots of "sorting" and finding lots of memories tucked away in drawers & cupboards! :'( just trying to "feel it" and accept how I feel right now.

[JennD]

Chin up, Upwards! Focus on the positive and feel the hard memories in smaller batches.

[3boymom]

Sorry you are struggling Upwards. It really is easier to detach when they are being mean. Once you start to see bits and pieces of the old "H" it is hard to remain detached. You are strong. Keep taking it one day/hour/moment at a time. HUGS!!

[Upwards]

Chin up, Upwards! Focus on the positive and feel the hard memories in smaller batches.

Thanks hun, i'm trying. I've not done any today because i'm already feeling a bit rubbish.

Sorry you are struggling Upwards. It really is easier to detach when they are being mean. Once you start to see bits and pieces of the old "H" it is hard to remain detached. You are strong. Keep taking it one day/hour/moment at a time. HUGS!!

Yes its hard, I really like the man he's becoming & I am beginning to see the man that I fell in love with many years ago again, he hasnt been that man for a long time (only glimpses) so its a difficult reminder that he's not by my side anymore.

On the other hand its nice that he's actually showing genuine remorse & concern, I suppose I need to focus on those positives.

[hope456]

I'm sorry you're struggling, Upwards. I tell myself all the time that I need to focus on the positives. I just miss my friend and, when I see glimpses of him again, it makes it harder.

((((Upwards))))

[Upwards]

Well I completely fcked up tonight, lost the plot & had a meltdown in front of H - I'm such an idiot, so angry with myself. Arghhhhh!!!!!

[hope456]

I've been there...after a pattern of positive interactions like you've had. It's hard to stay strong and confident and put together all the time when going through something so tough. Don't beat yourself up too much.

((((Upwards))))

[Upwards]

I don't think it's to do with the positive interactions & more to do with struggling with my own fears & insecurities plus being exhausted. It was a cry for help, I regret it a lot, I haven't done that in a long time

Urgh 2hrs sleep

[Upwards]

Truly hit rock bottom today, damn it hurt a lot, just wish I had a big OFF button today. I'm exhausted, totally & utterly exhausted and it's finally caught up on me and I've admitted defeat.

H's been very supportive today although clearly found it difficult at times too seeing the pain he's caused, he's trying to put himself in my position & understand how I feel and the pain I'm experiencing. He's told me to keep working on myself as I'm doing really well & that we just both need to keep on our own journeys and if we end up back together then it's meant to be - I know he's right, I know I need just focus on the here & now instead of what might happen in the future. Right now we have to be apart, its in all our best interests.

He's recognised that he needs to take more of the weight with the kids/house for a while as I'm completely exhausted, I have fibromyalgia & ME/CFS so my pain & fatigue levels amongst other symptoms mean I have very little energy - this meltdown is me completely exhausted & needing more help so hoping the extra support will help me get back on track and stay there.

[3boymom]

Up - I think that it is great that you have recognized that you need additional help and have asked for it. Even though we try to be supermom, it is impossible to do it all alone unless we start sacrificing ourselves. I have found that when I am sleep deprived, I struggle so much more. Try and get some rest and I am sure tomorrow will be a much brighter day!!

[Upwards]

Up - I think that it is great that you have recognized that you need additional help and have asked for it. Even though we try to be supermom, it is impossible to do it all alone unless we start sacrificing ourselves. I have found that when I am sleep deprived, I struggle so much more. Try and get some rest and I am sure tomorrow will be a much brighter day!!

Thank you 3BM, I struggle asking for help but I'm going to have to learn to! I literally didn't sleep last night and only got 3hrs the night before so it's no wonder I've been in such a state - I hope tomorrow is a better day I really do!!

[Upwards]

Well the past 48hrs have not been good. I've hit rock bottom & bounced there several times, I sat with a packet of sleeping tablets thinking the only way out was to end my life pure desperation, complete exhaustion & a big cry for help - Its terrified me that I felt so desperate & I feel so guilty for thinking that way, it came out of nowhere as I had been doing well & everything just came crashing down around me.

I know now that I need to make sure I never get to that point again, I cant let myself & need to do everything I can to keep myself going because my kids deserve better than that. I still feel very low today, I know I'll feel ok in a few days so just trying to ride it out, right now it feels like this hell will be my life forever.

At the moment i'm trying to work on a lot of my own fears and its difficult but I know its worth it in the long run, i'm growing so much as a person and getting stronger but its also very painful and tiring.

Need some help to get back on track, struggling a lot.

[MamaB]

Oh Upwards, I'm so sorry that you are feeling so low right now. Please know that it will get better again. I know how hard this is, but you are sooo strong, keep the faith.

Are you going to see your IC soon?

[Barrybran]

Hugs coming your way. As MamaB said, things will improve.

[3boymom]

Hugs Up!!! You know that we are all here for you. I have been in the exact same place. I spent several nights unable to sleep and wondering if everyone would be better off without my here. It is a horrible place to be....but you will be okay and things will get better.

So lets get you an a path moving forward.

First, are you seeing a IC? If not, my first recommendation is that you pick up the phone right now and make an appointment ASAP.

Next, try and set some short terms goals just for you. You have a ton going on in your life right now (moving, kids, etc). What are some things that you can do for yourself to make life a bit easier?

Takes things one day at a time. Those little kiddos need their Mum

[Breakdown]

Upwards,

I will echo other comments about seeing an IC. When you get to the point where you are considering hurting yourself, you need to engage some professional help asap. You should also consider joining a support group...check with your church if you have one.

Yes...this hurts. And the hard part is that there is no way around it....only thru it. One of the things that helped me was to not only feel the feelings...but ask myself what the source of those feelings was, and then explore that.

I know it's difficult to believe that you will get thru it....and in all likelihood, be happier and stronger than before. But you can, and you will....if you allow it, if you put in the work.

[Upwards]

Thank you so much everyone.

I'm seeing an IC weekly at the moment which helps - I think lack of sleep was at the root, I was trying to do way too much on my own and really struggling due to poor health, kids not sleeping well and so there was nothing left for me (both physically & mentally) and I ran myself into the ground. I ignored the warning signs because of my pride - I need to ask for help & I've learnt that now.

I've been doing so so well in myself and have learnt so much about myself it's amazing, I'm getting to the bottom of why i feel the way I do and why certain circumstances or situations really upset me (my own fears etc) and trying to tackle those bit by bit. I'm much more aware of my behaviours and feelings, trying hard to allow them and analyse them (but not too much!) and figure out ways to improve things for myself in the future.

I need to stay focused on ME, I find it very difficult and it doesn't come naturally! It's getting easier though, I need to do my own work to be healthy so that IF we do have a chance at R then we are both in a good place to do it.


A few things I'm unsure about at the moment:

GAL - I need ideas for things to do at home whilst the kids are in bed that are low energy ideally?! I get so bored and it's often the time that I get myself upset or worked up.

180s - need some inspiration for some new ones!

Books - I would like to read some self help books on fear of abandonment, self esteem, other similar things. Any ideas anyone?

Interacting with H - Since my H started intensive therapy with his IC and begun dealing with his childhood into adult issues he's wanted to spend a lot more time with me & is much more friendly etc. He's opening up about his feelings a lot more and generally seems to feel comfortable, he's begun to show remorse for some of the things he's done & put me through, he said he's "very proud of the woman that I'm becoming and can see that this situation is going to be the making of me as he's never seen me so strong" also that I'm a "wonderful mother & amazing woman" so his attitude has certainly shifted somewhat - I'm trying to have no expectations and I'm well aware he will cycle and fluctuate. I very rarely contact him at all, he contacts me several times a day every day, sometimes just to chat and sometimes relating to finances/kids/business.

What I want to know is, what's the best way to handle this, do I just go with the flow, remain detached and not have any expectations or should I be being "dim" and not answering his calls etc? He's suggested a few things recently to do as a family or together, it's always positive and we always enjoy it - where do I draw the line to ensure he's not just cake eating or is a little cake eating good at times to show him what he's missing?!

Thank you

[3boymom]

I think that GAL can include doing things with your kids. I also have the kids at my home every night, so it is often hard to "go out." I will take the kids for ice cream or to the park. Something to just get out of the house.

When I get some free time, I also want to take up photography. My H is a part time photographer, so he always took pictures of the kids (although it was a pain to get him to take them) So my goal is to start taking more pictures of them to capture our time together. I also want to put together a blog to keep track of the pictures and our times spent together. I used to post a lot of pictures on FB, but I am trying to stay off of it for the most part now. I figured that I can work on the blog at night when the kids are asleep. I also want to go through out pictures over the past few years and add them to the blog so they are all in the same spot to be able to show the kids.

[Breakdown]

GAL - I need ideas for things to do at home whilst the kids are in bed that are low energy ideally?! I get so bored and it's often the time that I get myself upset or worked up.

That's a tough one, because personally, I think GAL should be social, at least somewhat. Being with other people changes how you think of yourself, whereas going solo can really drive loneliness, depression, etc.

That said, a couple of ideas....exercise is a must, and if it has to be low energy, maybe yoga. You could also garden, read, home projects, etc.

Books - I would like to read some self help books on fear of abandonment, self esteem, other similar things. Any ideas anyone?

Codependent No More is probably the only book I've read that falls into this category...but I highly recommend.

What I want to know is, what's the best way to handle this, do I just go with the flow, remain detached and not have any expectations or should I be being "dim" and not answering his calls etc? He's suggested a few things recently to do as a family or together, it's always positive and we always enjoy it - where do I draw the line to ensure he's not just cake eating or is a little cake eating good at times to show him what he's missing?!

If he still has contact with OW, I would go dim. If not, then I would think about what you can handle without expectation and start there....small steps.

[Upwards]

Thanks 3BM, I do lots with the kids but feel I don't do much for myself & think I need that now. I've spent the past 6yrs putting my own life on the back burner for the kids, way too much so that it meant I wasn't taking care of my own happiness, I want to try to find a better balance

Feel a bit better tonight - time to focus on ME & my beautiful, amazing, wonderful children - it's amazing how nearly having a complete breakdown can put life into perspective! I need to stop fighting this & go with it, it's the only way forwards - I'm just not sure how to do that right now except working on myself & putting one foot infront of the other?!

[Upwards]

That's a tough one, because personally, I think GAL should be social, at least somewhat. Being with other people changes how you think of yourself, whereas going solo can really drive loneliness, depression, etc.

I have health problems so can't really do anything high energy, by the end of the day comes I'm usually fit for nothing! I do try to see friends regular & socialise when I can but often I'm sat home alone in the evenings so wanted something to occupy me then.

Codependent No More is probably the only book I've read that falls into this category...but I highly recommend.

I've read this fantastic book, I do refer back to it a lot too.

If he still has contact with OW, I would go dim. If not, then I would think about what you can handle without expectation and start there....small steps.

As far as I'm aware the contact with OW has stopped, I do believe this is the case at the moment although of course can't be sure of this. So far I've been doing well at keeping expectations low, I've been working on trying to spot when expectations are developing and to pull back, so far so good - I think I'll just go with his lead & see what happens?

[hope456]

Glad you are doing a little better tonight. You've been so strong and really inspirational to me. I'm cheering for you

GAL - I need ideas for things to do at home whilst the kids are in bed that are low energy ideally?! I get so bored and it's often the time that I get myself upset or worked up.

All seems right in my world if I read a good book (no self-help!) while taking a bubble bath. It's even better if I drink a glass of wine.

(((Upwards)))

[3boymom]

I may have missed out before but does your H have a set time that he sees the kids. If you share you schedule it may be easier to give some ideas for GAL.

[Upwards]

He collects them from school Tuesday & Friday then drops them back off for pjs, bed etc at 6:30pm. Sunday he has them 9:00am - 2:30pm but I'm going to ask him can we extend this a couple of hours, I tend to use Sundays to rest & potter around the house in peace lol!

[3boymom]

On Tuesday/Friday, it is possible for your H to put the kids to bed himself and hang out until you get back. The first couple of months I fought doing it because I wanted to be with the kids. But I realized that I was going to burn out if I did not have time for myself. Since I felt better about myself, I was able to really invest during my time with the kids instead of feeling burnt out all the time

Can always get up a dinner with a friend those nights? I have a similar schedule with my H. He has the kids Wednesday/Friday nights. He grabs them after work and has them until I get home. He puts them to sleep at my house and then does some work on his laptop until I get back. On Wednesdays, I go to IC and then try to head to the gym/yoga or run errands. On Friday, I try and get together with friends for dinner/drink/coffee. Since my friends all have little kids, I really have to plan in advance. I just set up a girls night with my best friends in three weeks. If we wait to the last minute, we can never coordinate. It takes some effort put it is nice to have some events to look forward to.

[claire7]

^^^^ this!! Having my H put our D to bed 3x a week (as opposed to nearly zero times he used to!) has been huge for me. I don't feeling like I'm always racing to get home-- I have time for IC, manicures, errands, meeting a friend for a drink after work. Even though I am getting less sleep, I feel less exhausted by child care. (And, coincidentally, my H told me he feels exhausted, never has time for anything, and is frequently frustrated by the bedtime routine. Mmm hmmm.)

[JennD]

Hi Upwards. I've got the 2 kids - 3 and 6 years old - and that was my strugggle too - finding ways to GAL with them or when they were in bed. Pretty tough to do.

Not that I've got it down 100%, but in the evening while they are sleeping, I:
- watch alot of netflix movies,
- clear out cupboards,
- take baths (bought really nice bubble bath),
- started doing craft again (mostly prep for fun kiddie crafts I can do with the girls on the weekends)
- go to bed early (or fall asleep on the couch!)

If I were you, I would discuss with H about adding a bit more time to his care of the kids so you can get out and have enough time to do something (massage, movies, shopping, etc).

I'm just starting to make the most of my own time (which I haven't had in a looonnnggg time) and find it really helps to keep PMA.

I too really resisted not being with the kids for the first while as I felt like they were the only think that kept me going. But I realize that I would be a better person for getting out and doing something for me and set a good example for them too.

A big part of why I am where I am with my H I believe is because we lost sight of our own induvidual needs and of our needs as a couple - only focused on being parents and homeowners...

I'm rooting for you!

[Upwards]

Yes I'm going to speak to him about it tomorrow, it's about time he stepped up and gave me a proper break - I often feel bad for asking & I'm way too proud, I've been on my own as a single parent for 8mths now and it's about time I was able to have a social life!!

He's been for tea tonight, we all had a nice evening - always a little hard when he walks out and I know he's going back to his "single life" and I have no idea what he's up to but I suppose I should be appreciate the nice times and not think about the rest - find it sooo hard not to obsesses about him being with someone else

I need some new 180s and better focus!

[Upwards]

Well I've just found out my H stayed in a hotel last weekend with OW, it was all a load of bullshit that he wasn't seeing her - I'm so angry & so hurt, it's no surprise but it hurts like hell. I can't do this anymore, I can't stand by a man who is treating me like this.

I can't do this, I just can't

[Barrybran]

Sorry to hear about that Up. You know what you have to do :-(

[Upwards]

Yep cut all ties & leave him to it, what a scumbag he said he'd cut contact FOR HIS KIDS!!!!

[Barrybran]

Half of what you see and nothing they say, right? It svcks big time and even more that he's used the kids in that way.

[Upwards]

I just wish I had the strength to let go completely & walk away, I wish I could turn off these feelings & not love him anymore. I'm hurting so badly, I don't want to do this anymore but I know I have no choice

[melissag]

Up, you are overwhelming yourself with this. Just think of one day at a time. Keep marching forward. Focus on you and your kids. Go as dim as you can - remember how much better you felt last time you did?

You are not cutting him off to get him to come back - you are cutting him off (from you, not the kids) so that you can focus on you, and he can take care of himself - that is not your job or concern right now.

You most certainly DO have the strength to do this. Prove yourself wrong, one day at a time.

[ye21]

This is for you my dear Upwards:


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbkZrOU1Zag

[Upwards]

Up, you are overwhelming yourself with this. Just think of one day at a time. Keep marching forward. Focus on you and your kids. Go as dim as you can - remember how much better you felt last time you did?

You are not cutting him off to get him to come back - you are cutting him off (from you, not the kids) so that you can focus on you, and he can take care of himself - that is not your job or concern right now.

You most certainly DO have the strength to do this. Prove yourself wrong, one day at a time.

I wish I believed that right now, I'll probably feel stronger when it's sunk in. I'm still reeling at the moment, though I'm not sure why as it's no surprise at all. I'm cycling between every emotion possible but disgust & anger seem to be the ones coming out ontop at the moment!

I did feel better last time I went no contact your right, hope it helps again because I can't carry on letting him pull me into his world of chaos.

[Upwards]

This is for you my dear Upwards:


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbkZrOU1Zag

Very inspirational! Thank you ye

[Upwards]

New thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=20&Number=2448438