I am very tempted to have this conversation with W. More of a statement, really.
1. I understand you are angry about our M. I am very sorry you feel that way. 2. I continue to further my understanding of my part in getting here.
3. I am willing to work with you to fully understand our problems and to find solutions. 4. This work cannot begin as long as there is a third party in the M. 5. You were right that OM is a symptom of our problems, not the cause. 6. Now, it absolutely blocks any constructive solution to those problems. 7. I am encouraged that we can find solutions because now you have found your voice and I have found my ears. 8. While I still believe that we can overcome our problems if we both commit to a solid effort, every day that we put off the hard work, the problems only grow, and our ability to deal with them diminishes.
Why? Reasons by number:
1. Validate, again. 2. Accept responsibility. W's story is that I blame her for everything because she didn't communicate to me in a language I understood. I just want to be clear that I do accept blame for the things I own. I know my saying anything may not change her story, but I want to make sure she hears me say it. 3. open offer. I know she doesn't want to right now, but the offer is there. 4. I'm not ok with the A. I can't work with you as long as there is OM. Again, she thinks she's getting away with it, but that isn't the point. Because she thinks I don't know, she interprets my actions incorrectly. The other day, when I didn't wish her good morning and say goodbye to her as I left, she assumed that I was pouting because she had finally stood up for herself and I didn't like that. I would rather have her think that I am disengaging because it's another day with no work, and therefore I assume she has chosen A. I also want to shift the burden of proof. Instead of me having to prove the A, I kind of want to say that my assumption is that it is ongoing until she tells me it isn't. 5. Validate what she has told me several times. (she said that in a way so as not to admit an A. OM is not our problem, our M had problems before OM) 6. Fact 7. Reason to believe things can be different. She knows she's changed. She can now be assertive; before she felt she was always passive and that I had taken advantage of that. I celebrate her assertiveness; how could that not make things easier? She will doubt me; I want to plant the seed. 8. Acknowledge that it will be hard work. Time is not her friend.
5 and 6 can be deleted. She'll fly off the handle right after 4.
If she wants to deny A again. I'll just stop her and say that while she is free to tell me whatever she wants, I have to believe what I see. I really don't want to confront her on A on the basis of proof. I could ask her 10 questions on her specific whereabouts over the last week that she would have to lie about, but again without proof I'm willing to present she'd be in denial.
Is this just R talk and therefore a bad idea? Some of it is just stating boundaries and facts that may not be clear. I don't think I've been judgemental in anything above. I don't think I'm being controlling. Nowhere do I tell her to do anything. I hope it leaves her with the sense that the ball is in her court, and that doing nothing is still making a decision. There is no ultimatum in here, and no deadline. Do I expect it to make her change anything? No. Hope to clarify that either actively or passively, choices are being made.
Again, nobody has ever said D. We are in this limbo. W was with OM again yesterday. Afterward she told a friend that she thinks OM wants to get caught. (to end A? to end his M to be with my W? who knows) Then she said she feels guilty, she wondered if her life with me was really that bad. I want to encourage that kind of thinking and I don't want to screw up.
Hoping Starsky will weigh in - is this just me overthinking again, looking for magic words? Some of this just hasn't been said and doesn't seem to be clear to her.
Or am I better off to just STFU and have her incorrectly assume whatever she wants.
Hoping Starsky will weigh in - is this just me overthinking again, looking for magic words?
Yes. You can't explain your way out of something SHE acted her way into.
It's good for you to capture these thoughts, and to BE READY with them. But you're going to have to play all those cards on a day and time when SHE is truly repentant and contrite, and asks you "What will it take?"
Until then, she would only see this as some combination of patronizing/holier-than-thou, and too-little-too-late from you. In her current, PEA-fueled wayward mindset, YOU are the problem, and the reason for everything from a cr*ppy marriage to global warming and the situation in the Ukraine.
I don't think I've been judgemental in anything above. I don't think I'm being controlling. Nowhere do I tell her to do anything.
No??? Why, because you've phrased it ohhhh-so-carefully and cleverly?
You are JUST like me, Zew, lol. I can GUAR-AN-DAMN-TEE you, that SHE will hear all of that as PRECISELY controlling and judgmental. It matters not what you say; the only thing that matters is how it comes across to HER.
Here, remember this: "You can't teach a wayward." That little gem of truth was given to me by the guy (NOPkins) that mentored me thru my own wife's affair and my own issues, and it's sooooo true. You can only land little "truth darts" every now and again, and even those have to be infrequent and in context -- NOT some pre-planned speech from you.
Wow great advices from Starsky, he is really telling you whats going on listen to him and this will be more productive for you.
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
Haven't we been through this once before, or was that someone else? Okay, so....don't do it. To me, you are not only trying to control, but you are trying to force her to admit the A and to stop the A. That's what it boils down to, anyway. Nobody can blame you for feeling like you do, however, it just won't work on her.
It is really driving you crazy that she continues to deny the A. You keep thinking of ways to try to squeeze it out of her, but it all sounds the same to me.
If I were the WAW and you presented that speech to me, I would let you know very quickly that I had not asked you to work with me, forgive me, understand me, or believe me. I am not interested in how sorry you may feel now.....or how willing you are to find solutions to make this M better. I am not hard of hearing or senile, and I don't have to have your consent or blessings on what I choose to do. You are not my father nor my Pastor, so stop preaching.
This won't do anything but start another argument, Zew. I have read many similar posts from other LBH's who try to make the W end the A and work on the M. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work this way.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I can GUAR-AN-DAMN-TEE you, that SHE will hear all of that as PRECISELY controlling and judgmental. It matters not what you say; the only thing that matters is how it comes across to HER.