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Hi Matt, I just wanted to add my 2 cents to the excellent advice you have been receiving. I hope you find it helpful.

It doesn't matter how great of a H you were, or are. W's perspective right now is that you are not. That's reality for her, and you'll be spinning your wheels until you accept it. You can't convince her otherwise, so please don't try.

I can tell by your posts that you want so badly to fix this. This is understandable (I did too) but you can't. It's just not possible. The best you can hope for right now is to not make things worse! I know, not what you want to hear, right?

There is hope, and things can get better, but...

She has to figure her way through this on her own, you can't help. The more you try, the more she will pull away and consider you the problem. Or worse, the enemy. Give her space and time.

Like everyone has advised you, just work on yourself. Build a happy life for yourself in this new reality. It's actually kinda fun once you get going.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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"It doesn't matter how great of a H you were, or are. W's perspective right now is that you are not. That's reality for her, and you'll be spinning your wheels until you accept it. You can't convince her otherwise, so please don't try."

I'd like to clarify this statement. No conversation you have with W will change her present perception. Pleading your case will cause her to dig in.

But over time, your consistent actions can have an effect. This is why you work on yourself. She will notice in time.

Also, I see like my W, your's claims she doesn't have those "in love" feelings for you. This will take even longer to return. No quick fixes for this. Bust On!


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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At the start of all this, I tried so hard to "fix" things. I stopped doing the things that my wife told me bothered her about me. At one time she said she was afraid that if we stayed together her life would be "boring". I took her and the kids to do fun things, all that did was make her change why she had to leave. Back in Dec of last year we had a fight about her going to her company X-mass parties without me. That was when she said she loves me but there are many "kinds" of love. That she needed to "find her joy" and couldn't do that with me around. That was when I STOPPED trying to fix anything and just give her time, space and support (like taking care of the kids so she could go away, helping her do things that she was having trouble with, etc.) but not chasing her, not asking her to not do something or do anything.

Since then things have actually gotten WORSE. She left the bedroom, she took off her ring, she opened a secret bank account. So, although that is what everyone keeps telling me I need to do, all it seems to be doing so far is make things worse. I'll admit that trying to fix things wasn't working well but it seems the more "space" I give her, the more she wants to run! I know I need to GAL for me. That is what I'm trying to do. But it not only doesn't seem to be helping my marriage, it seems to be making things worse!

Is this normal? Does the fact that the lbs is now getting their own life make it easier for the WAS to go? Maybe less guilt thinking that the LBS is going to be ok or maybe even better off without them? I know my W's low self esteem has much to do with her MLC. I know she feels better since losing so much weight but her LSE still rears up often when talking about herself. Someone told me that people with low self esteem sometimes feel that since someone loved them when they don't even like themselves that person must not be worthy or good enough for them when they start to feel better about themselves. Anyone have thoughts on that?

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Thank you Forever! I appreciate your help more than you know!

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Originally Posted By: Matt165
Is this normal? Does the fact that the lbs is now getting their own life make it easier for the WAS to go? Maybe less guilt thinking that the LBS is going to be ok or maybe even better off without them? I know my W's low self esteem has much to do with her MLC. I know she feels better since losing so much weight but her LSE still rears up often when talking about herself.


Wow Matt, I struggled with all the same questions.

Yes, if she’s going to run away from the M she would prefer to see you “happy”. This does relieve her of some guilt for bailing on you. But here’s the catch… You don’t want her to stay because she feels guilty for hurting you, that’ll never work long term. People only “fall in love” (or in our case, fall back in love) with happy, confident people. You have to be one of those people to have a shot with her again. Besides, what’s the alternative? Not getting a life and being miserable?

My W too has been plagued with LSE. Often talked bad about herself, sometimes still does. Unfortunately, this is something they need to figure out on their own. It’s the only way it will ‘take’. One of the ways they work through this is by doing new things out of their comfort zone. Instead of attempting to put the kibosh on this, champion her for it! Be excited for her. Let her open up and tell you about her new activities.

The key, I think, is to acknowledge their LSE feelings, while letting them know we believe they have plenty of good traits. Keep it honest and specific. Don’t go overboard with compliments or she'll think it's fake, and just a trick to win her back.

Cadet likes to tell us that things will usually get worse before they get better. I always cursed him for that, lol, but it’s often true. Find a way to accept this while still maintaining a meaningful life of your own, and your M might make it. The way I see it this is our best shot.

Quote:
Someone told me that people with low self esteem sometimes feel that since someone loved them when they don't even like themselves that person must not be worthy or good enough for them when they start to feel better about themselves.


I’m making myself the best person I can be, so I don’t worry about W thinking I’m not good enough because I loved her when she didn’t love herself. I think they secretly like that we stuck by them, (as long as we do it right) even if they won’t admit it.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Hi Forever.
You know, when we first started all the initial R talks post B-day, my wife said one of my best qualities was how she knows, no matter what, I would always love her and care about her. The examples she gave were a bit odd, like if she gained lots of weight when she knows its never been about how she looks or how much she weighed in the 25 years we've been together. Another was if she were to get sick and be unable to care for herself, I would still love and care for her. But of course she added that wasn't enough because she didn't want to stay with me just because of that without "feeling" the "right kind" of love.

I really think that one thing that hurts is that when her parents divorced her mom held on for way too long. She never dated, and now is 70 and lives alone while her dad ended up marrying the OW and sailing around the world with her on the money he cheated her mom out of. She see's her mom, the one who tried to save the marriage, as the "loser" and her dad who would go to C and just ignore everything and read magazines, as the "winner". He has his wife, a fun life and her mom has nothing. So, in her mind the person who "tries" and hangs on is the "loser".

I don't want her to stay out of guilt, of course. But I also don't understand why she can't see the changes and see me the way she did in the past. If I had hurt her, been an awful husband and father I could understand so much better. But to hate me for wanting to have a great marriage is just so weird to my way of thinking!

Thanks for the input, Forever. We both have much to do and learn!

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Very bad day. W wants to talk, first about daughter school and how we can't afford putting her in private school since she has decided to leave me as soon as school is over. Never mind I can't afford her going or her a place to live. How we must be thinking how to do this in a way that least effects the kids.

How she leaving because she is so unhappy and must change her life. That she isn't in love with me. That she needs to be in control and hasn't been happy since we got married. "It wasn't all bad but nothing is all bad". How she doesn't have anyone else and doesn't think she ever will. She feels trapped. She doesn't have her own place. Knows I'm not doing "bad" things but is afraid I will because she can't get over what happened 20 years ago. That she had 2nd thoughts before she got married but "just wanted to be married". She needs to try being on her own and the reason she's unhappy isn't from her childhood, it's just that we don't belong together. She doesn't want me to find someone new but wants me to be happy. Thinks she will never find anyone because she is to afraid of meeting new people (bullshit)!

Apparently she read something I wrote when I was upset a few months ago and misread everything (I don't know what she was talking about but I know I never wrote anything she said I did. Her MLC mind interpreted what I wrote a certain way.

I didn't handle it perfect but not as bad as I could have. While she doesn't think she will ever come back to the marriage, she's not in a hurry to divorce. I asked her why she was unhappy. She said because she feels out of control. Trapped. It's not my fault but than tells me how it is. How her dad has "owned up" to all he did but doesn't "remember" him saying and doing all he has for the last 7 years to break us up. How he wants to see her "grow" but is also supportive of her being a wife. (Total lie). I told her I knew about the bank account but than gets mad saying I was spying on her.

She just thinks our marriage is crap. Always was. If she were ever to come back she would need to do it slow. She thinks the kids don't have any idea what she is doing and of course they do! It all ended badly when she contradicted herself as to why she's unhappy and accusing me of "twisting her words".

The kids will be fine as it wasn't her parents getting divorced that was bad. It was the way they behaved. Her dad is now the victim. In the past he just was a bastard, now it was too "hurtful" for him to be part of his life. All this because her dad is rewriting the past and she wants it to be true! Doesn't explain why he didn't bother to tell her be was married again but I'm sure he now blames that on his "pain" as well.

She started by saying how depressed she was and by the end was saying she's no longer depressed, it's just me. She said we don't do anything and when I told her I tried to do things she said she knows but she gets "tired" when she's with me but not when she does things with other people! What the hell does that mean?

I'm trying to keep my cool but it's not easy. I wanted to get all she said down right away before I forgot any part. She is just bound And determined to leave and I can't stop her. No matter how good a husband I am since she would rather be a cat lady than stay with me since I make her so unhappy.

Someone please help me figure this out. I had thought things were getting out of replay but now I don't think so!

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I am so fracing angry at my wife! She is so screwed up that she actually said she knows it will hurt the kids but "people do many things to hurt their kids". Who is this bitch? Who is this worthless, selfish, amoral, valueless person? Where is the person I married and who lived with me for so many years? How is she going to get out of the tunnel when the biggest part of her past she needs to face is how badly her dad treated her and now he is saying all the things she wants to hear but for his iwn selfish reasons? Her trust issues have been a big part of her problems all her life. Trust issues brought about because of what her dad did. Now she can't even remember the ugly things he said to her, about her how he has tried to get her to leave! It's like none of it ever happened.

How bad is it that the OM is her own father. How bad is it that the only things she can say I did are from 20 years ago! Not one thing she can point to and say "you were a bad husband because you did _____.! No, it's just that she doesn't feel romantic love towards me anymore. Doesn't like that I'm on medication for my inability to sleep (due to her). I was diagnosed with low testosterone a few months before B-Day and now she says she doesn't like me taking replacement! Why? At least I don't need anti depression meds like she does! What the hell do you say to someone other than its not our marriage or me and she AGREES saying she just needs to be in control of her life. Than 5 min later says she hasn't ever loved me the whole time we've been married!

After this she asks me to watch a Disney movie with her and our 14 year old daughter and gets choked up at the romantic parts! Acts all happy towards me. Talks friendly to me knowing at this point I would like to kill her! She seems to enjoy my pain. She knows our daughter is counting on going to private school like she has all her life and we did for her sister and now it's more important that she save for retirement! When I told her I made enough for both the girls to be in private school and I'll find a way she started up with how I'm 52 (she's 47) and I should be saving towards retirement, like her. Does she not know that 1/2 that retirement is mine? How can she be so Unbelieveably nieve about what divorce really means? Her dad got away with hiding all his assets in his divorce but to do that he gave up access to his kids.

Is it wrong of me to want to make it as hard as possible for her. Not so she stays, God knows I don't want her like she is but because I actually want her to hurt the way she is hurting me and her kids. She really thinks they will get over it as long as the two of us are nice to each other like the fact that they are going to be ripped out of the family they thought they would always have because she wants what she wants will just be a bump in the road as she will be a much better parent because she will be happy!

I want to get away from her and leave but I am afraid of what I might do if I'm out on my own right now. Damn, I hate this feeling. I was trying so hard and now I'm back to the anger stage. Ugg! I can't wait to hear what she tells her moms family when she goes. They love me, her mom told her sister's family but my W doesn't know that. They have talked to me and cried saying they don't understand why she is doing this and for her part, my wife has kept it hidden from them. She tells me she hasn't said a bad word about me to anyone (but her dad) and never would because there's nothing to say except what happened 20 years ago and when they ask if I've ever given her a reason to doubt me since she can't say yes!

None of this makes sense in my mind. How can she keep hanging this on an event that happened so long ago that while bad, I've done nothing but prove it was in the past and never would happen again. Hell, I'm repeating myself. Sorry everyone. Just hurting.

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Hang in there. It's not you. She's just literally crazy right now. If you think of it as a disease, maybe that will help you have some compassion. Not that I'm excusing her at all. Just trying to depersonalize it so it makes it a bit easier to deal with maybe. A lot of folks here are going through something similar. You are not alone and we are with you.

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The best way I have found to deal with H midlife crisis is that he is sick. The marriage vow is in sickness and health. Unfortunately we here at MLC have to deal with both sickness and health throughout our M. Come here and read and post often - believe me it does help. The people here are so knowledgeable and friendly.

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