Have I travelled too far... Part 2

[pkp1852]

It looks like we may have hit a post limit on the original thread, so I thought I'd start a new one. The original thread can be found here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2440525&page=1

At this point I honestly don't know what it would take me for me recommit to this marriage. NC and transparency are a good start, but after the past few days I just don't know. Telling me that the reason she's strayed so many times over the last 12 years is because she just didn't find me attractive enough to hold her interest? WTF is that? That she married me because I met all of her other needs and she thought that she could settle for whatever attraction she felt. Now that she's gotten older she realized that it's more of a priority for her. In hindsight she might have made a mistake marrying me? She doesn't want to be with a 30 year-old who is just now "finding himself"? Okay, maybe she was thinking out loud and just processing everything. Doesn't make it any less of a shitty thing to say.

She acknowledged that she has "issues" that she needs to work through (yeah, no [censored]). I will only change so much and it's for my own benefit and to increase the quality of my own life, not to satisfy whatever she thinks she wants. In the end she either needs to accept me for who I am (as I did with her all those years ago) or she needs to quit wasting my time.

[pkp1852]

Either my WW and I had a serious miscommunication or else she was still waffling (I suspect the latter). After going out with some old friends (more on that in a second), it seems like her tune has changed again. Whereas before she wanted to make things work, was willing to give it a shot, and wanted to work with a MC, now she's still unsure and wants to do IC with the MFT to get help deciding whether to go or stay. This was an overnight reversal...I have to tell you I was really knocked off-balance when she told me. It's at the point where I want to just shake her until she can make up her mind!

So these friends I met up with over the weekend were from the same job that my WW, the OM, and I all know one another from. We eventually started talking about all of these (it took a few drinks) and they really got into it. It turns out that the OM's xW also came from this circle...and was still talking to one of them. The dirt she had gotten from the xW was that it wasn't financial arguments that ended the marriage, but the gay porn she found on his computer and that for the last months of their marriage whenever they'd have sex he always insisted on <<ahem>> from behind. Apparently when he moved back to the area he refused to speak with one of the coworkers who got him involved in his current caterer (who also happened to be gay), despite this other fella living not too far away. This information does nothing to change my circumstances or planned direction in any way, but all I could think as this new info settled into the story in my head was,"I couldn't make this sh*t up!"

[Upwards]

"Believe none of what you hear & only half of what you see"

A lot of what she says will be "backing up" her decision to end your R and she will continue to say these things to convince herself shes doing the right things and to ease her guilt. Just because she says these things doesnt mean thats really how she feels, she clearly doesnt know how she feels and her feelings will be changing even hourly so dont read too much into what she says right now.

You need to try to detach and not take what she says on board, I know it so difficult but by taking a step back and putting some distance between you & her it will allow you to detach and spend more time focusing on YOU. She is all over the place and she's pulling you up & down with her, you need to protect yourself now and focus on whats best for YOU.

Have you read DB/DR books? Are you doing any 180s? Sorry i'm not up to date on your previous thread.

[pkp1852]

"Believe none of what you hear & only half of what you see"

A lot of what she says will be "backing up" her decision to end your R and she will continue to say these things to convince herself shes doing the right things and to ease her guilt. Just because she says these things doesnt mean thats really how she feels, she clearly doesnt know how she feels and her feelings will be changing even hourly so dont read too much into what she says right now.

You need to try to detach and not take what she says on board, I know it so difficult but by taking a step back and putting some distance between you & her it will allow you to detach and spend more time focusing on YOU. She is all over the place and she's pulling you up & down with her, you need to protect yourself now and focus on whats best for YOU.

Have you read DB/DR books? Are you doing any 180s? Sorry i'm not up to date on your previous thread.

I actually found most of her complaints to be pretty fair and reasonable…my only issue was that she sat there and simmered (and eventually went somewhere else to meet those needs) rather than saying anything about it. One thing that I’ve noticed, along with anyone else I’ve spoken with about this, is that she still has yet to openly acknowledge any role she may have played in getting us to where we are.

Pretty much everything she mentioned were things that I had recently recognized on my own and resolved to address. When she unloaded with “I’m just not attracted to you anymore” and recognized it as a problem she had a deal with rather than something I needed to address, I knew that I was getting close to where I want to be. Part of what has me so frustrated with her waffling is that there are two VERY different mindsets when going towards R and an MFT versus separating. When we were strictly talking separation, I’d been figuring out what I would need right away, what we had in the house that I could take with, which stores I should head out to minimize the trips, working out where it all fit into my budget. I was doing all this out in the open. When she started talking about trying to work things out with the MFT, going NC (I didn’t want to burst her bubble that NC without transparency was a hollow promise), etc. I changed gears. I started focusing on how I wanted to present the work I’ve done so far to the MC. I started trying to figure out the best way to concisely say what I felt our issues were, what role I played in them, and what it would take for me to commit 100% to R. My sister wanted to host Easter this year, but I convinced her to allow my WW to host yet again because it’s her favorite holiday. Now that we’re back on the fence I sure feel like an ass!

I picked up DB early on (along with a whole host of other books). The two that I read most recently that have been the most beneficial have been “Passionate Marriage” (discussing fused relationships, differentiation, and self-soothing) and “No More Mr. Nice Guy!”…I can’t help the titles…(discussing the what being a “Nice Guy” entails – it’s not a good thing – and confronting both the causes from the past and the behaviors in the present).

Yes, I’d say that that I’m finally effectively doing 180’s. Her big question is whether the changes will actually last. Personally I wonder (although this DOESN’T mean concerned!) if the changes will be enough. She has this idea of her dream person and sees compromising on her “wants” as settling. Like I told hear earlier this week, I’m going to make my changes regardless of how things work out between us. If she doesn’t feel that it’s enough for her or that she doesn’t want to stay in a relationship with me, that’s fine. I’ll find someone who will. Between you, me and the interwebs I’m a little anxious about getting back into the dating scene after a decade, but I also know that I have to get right with myself before I can invite anyone else in.

[Accuray]

I hope you're doing well, it's easy to get sucked into riding the roller coaster.

my only issue was that she sat there and simmered (and eventually went somewhere else to meet those needs) rather than saying anything about it.

This is completely normal behavior unfortunately. When you have a serious marital complaint, the worst case scenario is that your spouse says "I'm unhappy too, let's divorce". People usually don't want to take the risk of having the tables turned like that, so won't voice their complaints until they are beyond done or have worked out a "soft landing" via an affair.

she still has yet to openly acknowledge any role she may have played in getting us to where we are.

Also very normal. Often it's easier to see yourself as a victim rather than an active participant. That said, if she does feel some guilt or responsibility, you are the *last* one she would divulge that too, because she fears you would latch onto it as a beacon of hope that things will get better. Better for her to keep you thinking that it's all your fault.

People have two outcomes from failed relationships, either they learn about themselves and grow from the experience, or they don't. I think you're going to be in the first group.

Like I told hear earlier this week, I’m going to make my changes regardless of how things work out between us. If she doesn’t feel that it’s enough for her or that she doesn’t want to stay in a relationship with me, that’s fine. I’ll find someone who will.

No more R talks! You've got to stop discussing this stuff with her. Make your plans and execute them for you. Don't telegraph your intentions. Being mysterious will play in your favor no matter what happens.

Glad you liked "Passionate Marriage"

Acc

[pkp1852]

WW came home last night from the session seeming a little bit happier and calmer. All that I asked was whether she liked the counselor or not (seeing as how the one this past January was pretty lousy). She didn’t volunteer anything that they had discussed, but said that she really liked this woman a lot better…she offered a lot more insight into what they discussed. Before she could really make any decisions about whether or not she would want to stay and work on things, she wanted at least one more session. I’m not even going to both trying to read her mind here. At this point I’m just waiting the week until I find out a little bit more.

[unbidden]

Way to go Good that you didn't pressure her even when there was a bit of an opening. Good job. Thumbs up.

[KenF]

one thought about the WAS listing their reasons for leaving/OM/etc:

many times they'll start with a generic list, one that contains some real issues you can address and fix.

If they see you actually taking action to fix those issues, they create a new list.

in my opinion, the reason for this is they never expected you to do the work and make the changes, in their mind you're to blame for everything and you CANNOT possibly change, and you don't CARE enough to put in the effort. (and this very well could be a true analysis depending on your past behavior) but they need a list, they need to know its you and not them, they need a list of reasons when they tell their friends and families why they want a divorce, they need to feel justified, sometimes they need the sympathy. they need to convince themselves. in some cases they need to make you into The Monster to justify their affairs, it eases their guilt.

so this new list contains items that are a bit more outlandish, and will include items that you cant possibly fix, such as her not being attracted to you.

but if you actually can change those complaints, chances are she'll again revise her list. and each revision gets more and more fantastic.

so, take her list for what its worth, consider everything on it, but don't take everything as gospel truth.

but dont discuss your fixing your issues. she either wont believe it or she'll get angry you didnt do this earlier, but she wont appreciate it.

[unbidden]

Pop, you sound strong and rational about all this. Good for you

[KenF]

my list was very similar. even down to the pregnancy thing. in my case i'm a bad father because i left the hospital after our D was born and went home to sleep, and when i got back in the morning she had already nursed. so i missed the first nursing. which makes me a horrible person.

of course, she refused to be reminded that she herself had insisted i go home and sleep. which her mother had also reminded her of.



but i think you're doing it right. fix your issues.

its always good to reset at different points in life. we get caught up in being too busy and distracted. and sometimes need to do some repairs on ourselves.

while its ok to use her and the BD as a motivator, make these changes for you, because you understand/believe you need them.

it becomes obvious to her if you continue making these changes just for her sake. and she'll consider them fake, and believe they wont last. and this will set you back.