Its been a long time since I have posted, but sometimes I do go back to read some posts, and in one of them, starsky replied with the same advice about the total transparency and boundaries advice that he gives to everyone.
I have nothing against transparency and boundaries. Truly, that is needed to keep the marriage healthy throughout the years.
However, in this situations, it is not a one size fits all. We all have very different personalities, causes of why we came here in the first place, and stages of where we are in.
Some people are in a very sensitive stage of the reconciliation. They may just be feeling each other out, to find out if this could go. the full commitment may not be there yet.
Not everyone can make an instant decision to reverse their lives and feelings, and suddenly be committed and make pacts with their spouse. they may be wondering....is my spouse able to forgive me? accept me back and trust me?
We all know that especially MLC'ers, they have a very skewed view of the world. Can they comprehend boundaries yet? Are they trying to come back and yet at the same time fighting it? Confused and yet not able to resist the lure of a changed spouse, the light from the lighthouse that we are teaching here?
In some of those cases, you know what will happen if you suddenly lay down the rules and demand total transparency? they may run away for good. and so what happens to the goal of saving another marriage?
So where does transparency and commitment come in?
It will, when both parties are at that point where they are ready to commit. And again, it usually does not happen at the same time. It remains for the one who has remained steadfast in the marriage, the one who wants to save it, to hold the hand of the "monster" as he struggles and moves slowly towards the comforts of home. Serena, one of those who used to post here, said it so eloquently: think of your spouse as the beast in fairy tales who turns into a prince in the end. It is the patience of the lady who stays by the beasts side and holds his hand as he struggles to transform into a prince that leads to a happy ending.
I know, I've been there. And finally, my H is now almost that prince. Its been a couple of years since he started coming out of the fog and made it known that he wanted to work on the M. We went to retrouvaille, which was the catalyst, but backsliding was a common occurrence initially. I still snooped initially, he still had contact with the OW initially, but I promised to let him take care of it, and stopped snooping, and he did stop it eventually and then I saw him turning back to me and without words or contracts we went back to the openness we had before our problem. Even better.
Now we are getting to that point were we can talk about the past without going back into that darkness. Our marriage is stronger than ever and we have weathered a lot of new hurts and fights and issues in a different way....together and not by keeping it to ourselves but by openly talking and discussing it. I do hope that we can keep it up - its a great feeling not to be hampered by boundaries from someone else but act by our own boundaries from knowing what is right and wrong! And also to be transparent without demanding it from each other but because we respect our marriage enough not to hide things from each other!
Again, I am not saying that your way is wrong, its just that its not for me. There are other people out there who may agree with me, and others who think more like you.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
It all depends on what the betrayed spouse can abide, Angel, and what their non-negotiable core beliefs are. To some, an affair isn't a deal breaker for instance, and for others it is. Then, each person is different as to how long they can hang on (or "stand," to use the MLC term). In my experience of studying literally thousands of affairs, it is a very rare individual who can hold on for 6 months or more, without sustaining serious emotional, financial and even physical health problems. For men, particularly, I have found that very few can hang in longer than 3-6 months, and then there's a whole additional dynamic of most women find such passivity in the face of their unrepentant affairs UNATTRACTIVE.
You, my dear Angel, were a very rare and strong bird. There are some -- not many -- who can do that. Often, I find these people to have a very strong faith in God that helps sustain them for two years or more. But most, sadly, lose their emotional health and often their finances over such a long haul.
Again, it all comes down to what YOU can abide. If having an open marriage is a deal breaker, then yes, I almost always advise a betrayed spouse to lay that boundary at the outset, to be clear.
Angel, thanks for coming back to post your update and your thoughts. I’m sure this is very invaluable for all posters who are currently straggling through a reconciliation process. I’m not there yet, I hope I will be one day. And this is something I needed to hear, that all situations are different. I feel that I would be following the pattern you just described. And it is also good to hear that there was some backsliding in the process and you still made it to where you are right now. This is my biggest fear that I would backslide.
Starsky, I didn’t quite understand what you were trying to say in your post. I see a lot of women on this board who are standing for more than a year, a lot of them for two years. Yes, there is emotional and in most case the financial damage. It happens even if the stander gives up after 6 months or so.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Not sure what your question is, as there's at least two or three main thoughts in my post. But I would say that in my experience, it's very very rare to both successfully reconcile a marriage, AND get there with your and your children's emotional health intact without asserting strong boundaries very early in the process. ESPECIALLY if there is infidelity involved.
But again, it all boils down to what one's non-negotiable, CORE BELIEFS are, what I like to call one's "Boundaries of Personal Integrity." If you assert those, and you lose your spouse over it, then you have only lost what you couldn't have abided anyway.
You learn your husband has a drug addiction, and is using hard drugs in the house -- even in front of the children. Nearly all emotionally healthy people would insist that he either get help and get off the drugs, or at least a boundary of "no drugs allowed in the house, until you decide to get some help."
Well, what if he's not "ready?" What if asserting such a firm boundary only drives him away from your home, and your children?
Again, most of us would say "We'll, that's not what I wanted, but it's more important to protect my children -- and myself -- from his destructive behavior. " It's a non-negotiable boundary of personal integrity.
For some, continued, unrepentant infidelity is just a line. For others, it may not be, or it may, but they decide "I'll give it six months, do everything I can to become a better spouse, and then he will have to decide."
It all comes down to what YOUR boundaries are, but if one if them is "I will not share my husband with another woman," then I would advise them to lay that boundary immediately.
Starsky, thanks for responding. I’m sorry of I misreading something here. Maybe I’m just not understanding the point. I didn’t have to deal with infidelity yet. There was an attempt of my H to connect with the young girl, but it didn’t go anywhere and he was not “in love” with her at all, just thought that he could get these feelings later. He figured she would be a perfect partner for him to suite his lifestyle. I also don’t have small children who would be affected by the sitch. I’m sure my son hurt some, but he is a grown up adult and has his own life.
So, let me understand this, you are saying that it is impossible to reconcile if you don’t set the boundaries early on? Or, is it that without the boundaries you would have more emotional damage? I guess, I’m just not in a situation like that. So far I didn’t have to set any boundaries, and this is what I get confused about. I brought the doormat subject a couple of times before in my sitch. I was questioning if I became a doormat by allowing H to take advantage of certain things. Then I realized that my sitch was different. In a sense it almost seems harder for me, because I have nothing to set a hard line against right now.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
So, let me understand this, you are saying that it is impossible to reconcile if you don’t set the boundaries early on? Or, is it that without the boundaries you would have more emotional damage?
Definitely not saying the first.
I'm saying that whatever core (the big stuff, not things like "I need a third party to handle the drop-off and pick-ups with the kids" or something . . . more like "I refuse to live in an open marriage," or "I will not have you texting or phoning your OM/OW in front of the children") boundaries one is going to set, they should set them early.
a) it adds clarity to your position, so that your wayward/walkaway spouse is clear on it, and
b) it can help limit (not eliminate) the emotional, financial, legal and even physical health damage.
My advice (and my experience) is definitely coming from a place where's active infidelity, but there are other posters who have had good success with early, strong boundaries even when there wasn't an affair (Coach and Greek come immediately to mind).
Again, Angel is a very strong and special case, in my experience. She seemed to have a very high tolerance for her husband's MLC, and a ton of patience to wait for him to come back around. Most can't do that, and since none of us have any way of knowing ahead of time how long our wayward spouses are going to remain wayward, my default position on my advice is to try to head into the storm with boundaries (legal, financial, emotional, spiritual) firmly drawn at the outset, to the extent possible.
It worked for me, but as Angel pointed out, the other way worked for her, so it's up to each poster to decide which course is best for them, and what their non-negotiable core beliefs are.
Starsky, thanks for clarification. I get it now. I guess I find myself on the path similar to Angel’s. The only thing I’m trying to keep is the emotional and spiritual boundaries. But it is not hard at all, since my H is far away and only has some contact for business, plus he kind of set the boundaries himself. I will try to look for Coach and Greek posts, if I can find them.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
If you click on his username, you can view ALL of his old posts, or you can also toggle it to only see those threads that he initiated.
Sadly, Coach passed away last year very suddenly and unexpectedly, at a way-too-young age. I'm not sure if his wife Greek still lurks over here at all, but what made Coach's passing even more sad was that the two of them had successfully saved their marriage, and then both came back here to "pay it forward" and help shepherd SO many new folks with their teaching.
He was a giant, on no less than two different marriage forums, and I miss him so much.
