new here. is DB even worth it?

[Upwards]

That's not really what you posted. You posted a QUESTION that he asked you. You just chose to see it as him being unsympathetic on purpose. You just said it's hard to find parking. You are the one who chooses to be angry and have built up alot of resentment.

Could this just be because the two of you didn't know how to CORRECTLY communicate with each other? It happens alot in marriages and let's face it, there was probably alot of mindreading on both your parts. You EXPECTED him to act a certain way or do certain things and then when he didn't, you would get upset and then he would get upset back, etc.

Learning how to communicate correctly is one of the keys to successful relationships.

Thanks, Mr Bond. Yes, this is definitely true. We definitely had communication problems. I was sensitive and insecure, he would get defensive, it was a mess. I have taken responsibility for my role in our problems. I did that immediately upon BD, and have specifically articulated and apologized for my role. I even think we needed to separate for a bit to "reset" ourselves if there was to be any hope for our marriage. I know that I wouldn't have made the progress I've made if we hadn't separated. The difference is that I believe with all my heart that our relationship is very, very fixable. He just doesn't see it that way.

I have been working really hard on taking things he says at face value and not reading it through a lens that would make me angry or upset.

I post here to get perspective. I don't want to get defensive. So, I appreciate the reality check. And in response to labug above, what is best for my D is if I come out and get her. I suppose, too, that if I end up having trouble tomorrow I could call him to ask for help and see what his response would be. He doesn't live too far away, though he may not be home. But who knows, maybe he would be happy to help me in return. Or, I will just park in an illegal spot and if we get a ticket, so be it. Or maybe the neighbors can help. This was a good reminder that it's only stressful if I *choose* to feel stressed about it. (Working on the anxiety issues...)

Thanks.

[Upwards]

Ignore my last post my phone went crazy!!!

Learning how to communicate correctly is one of the keys to successful relationships.

So true! Even by improving my own communication skills alone it's helped my situation a lot! Amazing how just listening or changing a few words can have such a drastic impact!

The difference is that I believe with all my heart that our relationship is very, very fixable. He just doesn't see it that way.

He can't see it that way at the moment, the only way he will see it that way if he's going to is in his own space & time. Nothing you say will help or make him see it the way you see it (believe me I tried earlier on!!). That's why it's SO important you focus on you & your D and try to leave your H to it as much as you can, detach!

This was a good reminder that it's only stressful if I *choose* to feel stressed about it. (Working on the anxiety issues...)

EXACTLY!! Great you can come on here & find perspective

[paul19510]

^^^ great stuff. In looking back at my post to you earlier, I'm not sure my situation and yours with regards to this are the same. Nice to see you reason through what you need.

[25yearsmlc]

"If she is asleep in car when we get back, should i just call you to come out and get her?" (Context: We live in a city, so we have to find parking on the street which can be tricky sometimes.)"

Hi, just read this and I see this as more about your D than your H. What's best for her?

THIS^^^^.....what is best for HER?

[25yearsmlc]

Also please don't get wrapped up in whether he sees you "accepting" this as meaning it's fine.

He KNOWS you do not want this. He knows it! And believe me, you being miserable or needy in front of him, or towards him, won't make him miss you more.


He is unhappy himself (depressed even) AND does not trust your changes will last and therefore, if he were to come back, nye fears you'd revert and things would be bad again.

consistent changes + sufficient time = change he can believe in.

Keep at it.

[claire7]

25yearsmlc, thank you for the great reminders. Just to update-- he found parking right out front and brought her to the door. A quick, easy exchange. So all my worry and resentment was for nothing, and I'm so glad I was able to get support from this forum to remind me to just let it go.

Then, yesterday, on my day, we had a busy morning (playdate with a friend that included painting, dyeing Easter eggs, and lunch), then I got both of us dressed and ready and drove over an hour in the rain to see my family. Was raining even harder on the way home. My brother came with me, which eased my anxiety (I actually wasn't anxious on the way home, even though the road conditions were pretty bad). I pulled into a tight spot right out front, and carried my 32 lb sack of sleeping potatoes, and our stuff, into the apartment, in the pouring rain, without an umbrella all by myself.

And he sent me an email yesterday telling me that he's noticed how strong and brave I've been, and how that is in stark contrast to how he has been (he admitted he was too scared to come in to say hello to my family the other day), and he hopes I feel proud of how I've been dealing with everything. And also that he has a fever and stayed home from work and will have to miss his scheduled time with our D.

I am a bada$$. I am confident, capable and strong. And I'm reaching the point where I feel like only a fool would leave me.
Thanks for all the great advice. This forum has been really helpful to me.

[claire7]

Oh, also... how do I respond to the email giving me compliments for handling our situation so well and saying that in many ways I've handled it better than he has??? Do I respond? I am letting myself sit on it for a couple of days. Thinking of saying, "Yes, I do feel quite confident and proud. Thank you for the kind words."

After pursuing, shaming, trying to convince him of how wrong he was for the first two-three months, I pretty much completely backed off. I want to show him that I am moving in a positive direction with or without him. That it's not a trick to get him back. The truth is, the changes *needed* to happen, and in a way I am thankful that he jolted me into it. I don't think I would have reached this level of stability and self-confidence otherwise.

I want him to see that I am releasing a lot of my anger (I actually feel more pity for him-- in some ways he is having a much harder time than I am, because he seems to be carrying some guilt around, which I am not). But it also feels too soon to be anything more than casually friendly with him, even though he is opening up a tiny bit. I tried so hard at first to get him to change his mind and it was so misdirected. I don't want to push him away again.

[ye21]

Oh, also... how do I respond to the email giving me compliments for handling our situation so well and saying that in many ways I've handled it better than he has??? Do I respond? I am letting myself sit on it for a couple of days. Thinking of saying, "Yes, I do feel quite confident and proud. Thank you for the kind words."

Changes are for you, and its great he can see that. You dont need to respond, create mistery around it, let him continue to see the changes despite how he reacts towards them.

You are a new you in a path to a better life, if he wants to be around he is going to have to show more than a few compliments

Say thank you to God not to him, God thank you for helping me in this changes and thank you for taking care of H and showing him how to be more healthy!!

[25yearsmlc]

Oh, also... how do I respond to the email giving me compliments for handling our situation so well and saying that in many ways I've handled it better than he has??? Do I respond? I am letting myself sit on it for a couple of days. Thinking of saying, "Yes, I do feel quite confident and proud. Thank you for the kind words."

You want to listen without defending and speak without offending. AND you want to show change on your part, so you handle this with those goals. B/C he won't return to the marriage unless he believes the marriage can be better/different than before.

And that will only happen (in his mind) when YOU CHANGE...

(and yes, later on comes his time, but that's not your job and now is not the time for mentioning it)


After pursuing, shaming, trying to convince him of how wrong he was for the first two-three months, I pretty much completely backed off. I want to show him that I am moving in a positive direction with or without him. That it's not a trick to get him back. The truth is, the changes *needed* to happen, and in a way I am thankful that he jolted me into it. I don't think I would have reached this level of stability and self-confidence otherwise.

This^^^ is absolutely true and shows great insights!

I want him to see that I am releasing a lot of my anger (I actually feel more pity for him-- in some ways he is having a much harder time than I am, because he seems to be carrying some guilt around, which I am not).

The issue about anger is not "whether" you "Should" feel it...it's likely very justified. The issue is, what do you DO with the anger? Does it further your goal or obstruct it?

It's rare that showing anger to a WAS helps anyone. Usually it validates their decision to leave....You're smart & healthy to rid yourself of that anger...

As for the guilt, it's the big BIG reason I'd never want to be a WAS...I would not trade places with them for anything. I see the consequences now, years later, of my h's choices and the damage to his r's with the kids. He still feels alienated all these years later. It takes a toll. We are all seeing a family therapist now. So yes, it does get to them eventually. I won't ever envy them.


But it also feels too soon to be anything more than casually friendly with him, even though he is opening up a tiny bit. I tried so hard at first to get him to change his mind and it was so misdirected. I don't want to push him away again.

Agreed.

There's very little downside to taking it S L O W L Y....but a huge downside to rushing things or taking them too fast....

A little mystery would be a good thing, as well as recalling the DB guidelines assembled & posted by Sandi...With a few additions here & there.

Good luck!


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say is nothing.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

38. Know that in time, you really will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.

39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.

40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is this day and “from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past and what you cannot control. It’s a lot to let go of, but it is freeing.

[claire7]

25 and others--
I have so appreciated all the great advice. I think I am doing a decent job of detaching (took me a few months, but I got there), and starting to move on with my life.

But now...I really need some help with learning how to validate. Here's the story: The schedule has been that H comes over M, W, Th mornings before work 7 am (I have to leave by 7:15, and our babysitter's schedule has always been 7:30). He also comes Sat morning at 7 and spends the day with D on Saturdays from 7-3:30 pm. He also comes M and F after work (5-8:30), and Sunday evening 3:30-8:30.

He emailed me to say that this schedule is leaving him feeling exhausted. He wants to "be fair" to me, and spend time with D, but feels like he wants to cut it down to 3 mornings a week instead of 4, and come this Saturday at 8 instead of 7.

He says he doesn't want my sympathy, but just wants to explain that he is struggling with the schedule.

This is the cliff's notes version, so feel free to ask clarifying questions. But.. please help me figure out how to validate/empathize and respond appropriately, when what I really want to say is: "You POS, you BD and left me just as I was starting to work on major anxiety and depression issues, after not supporting me enough emotionally when I had PPD, and you seem to be completely incapable of understanding how your choice to abandon our marriage has completely uprooted my life, left me scared for my financial future, and made my life much more complicated and difficult. This was your choice! This is what you wanted! You don't want me to be your partner! Darn straight this is hard to do alone! Deal with it!"

I know I can't say that. But I have no idea what I am supposed to say. How do I validate/empathize without being a doormat?? (He's tired so he gets to just release himself from childcare responsibility?? Um, I'm pretty tired, too.) Oh, and to add to my frustration, while he says he is so exhausted, he's also asked me to take his Sunday evening time so that he can go out to a special event with a guy from work.

I am trying so hard to be someone only a fool would walk away from... and most days I feel pretty great about my progress. But this is hard for me too. I'm tired, and I didn't sign up to do this parenting thing alone. I am so angry and sad that he has put us all in this situation.

Please help!
Thanks.