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Dear sandi, MLC, SD, et al,

Thank you for your posts.

I've put together a hopefully coherent distillation: "dear d16, I've been thinking more about the shopping trip present. The idea was to have fun and spend time with you, and I thought that shopping together could be something enjoyable. I do have the right to spoil you a bit, every now and then, you know smile.
I know going to XX is not your favorite thing, so how about we go to YY instead, or do something else that you like. If you don't want to do something together, I'd like to know why, as our R is very important to me, as is your happiness, and I will do whatever I can to improve it.
Anyway, let's spend some time together, somewhere, soon, just you and me. Let me know what you'd like.
Love, Dad - "

Apropos specific compliments: I complimented her on her "buttery" instrument tone (she was practicing last night), which her music eduction is really helping with. She still hasn't got a new instrument (she could use a better instrument), even though that was a gift nearly a year ago.

She did mention being able to use a new lighter laptop for school, who will install the software she needs. She says there is no hurry... Unbeknownst to her I already have exactly what she wants, hidden here, intended as a gift in the fall or Christmas, but now slated for Easter.

Would there be any point in emailing her the above? Perhaps an evening walk, if I can motivate her, would be a better opportunity to talk?

The secretly planted tulips are coming up -

Luke


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GM - thanks - I thought so - good point (I am smiling at my thick skull) about not needing to email one's kid! And yes, I'll only bring up the second part if needed. Luke


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Action: just talked to d16 re shopping, who said "of course we can do something together, go to XX, maybe a museum or something and even do some shopping". I said that I knew she liked to be at home too, and relax, and to please let me know when was good for her.

So all is good for the moment on d16 front.

Action: am booking time with IC regarding finding my passion, as a continuation of your posts, Mr. Bond and Brahmin (your recommendation of the Frankl book was great).

Thx - Luke


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One recommendation I would have is for YOU to set the date and time. I notice you don't follow through or don't go far enough in your interactions. Set the time and place and go for it. Don't analyze so much. You have to start learning to run on just your impulse rather than always having a "reason" or a plan.

Do something JUST BECAUSE.


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Originally Posted By: MrBond
One recommendation I would have is for YOU to set the date and time. I notice you don't follow through or don't go far enough in your interactions.

I noticed this^^ as well. I assume you fear rejection, which stops you from nailing down the time. But notice where you stop yourself and try to push thru that. Otherwise you're doing a ton of mind reading/analysis and assuming negatives, & Not enjoying your life. And not having a good R with your d.

You're in charge of changing that and I"m SO glad she reacted as we all hoped. She loves you Luke. Do you get that? It's a good thing and it's good to savor it. I was a career woman who was shocked/amazed/traumatized/delighted, by motherhood.



Set the time and place and go for it. Don't analyze so much. You have to start learning to run on just your impulse rather than always having a "reason" or a plan.

Do something JUST BECAUSE.



Luke, I'm glad you grasp how odd an email would be to your own d...(imo, ever. B/c when she lives elsewhere, you pick up a phone. The only time I'd email my own children is if I were sending them an article/link or some written info.

But never would I "talk meaningfully " to them by email, let alone while living under the same roof. Just saying, you need to really digest that, okay?

Where are you sleeping these days? Care to discuss?


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Hola MLC - yes, parenthood and kids have been one of the best things in my life. I was dreading the conversation, anticipating difficulties and rejection and screwing up somehow (hence the insane email idea) but then just took the plunge tonight, and am glad I did.

I sleep up in my son's room.

Bond is right about setting or at least proposing times and dates. I got in touch with the other alumni from my school here in Sweden who also interview kids interested in going there, and got a quick positive response. But then nothing further happened and I realize I just have to throw out a time/date and see what the others say.

Bond - I am working on the passion thing - thanks for pushing me on that. It'd be good to have a reason to be alive, something beyond the kids.

Luke


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Originally Posted By: LuckyLuke
Hola MLC
I sleep up in my son's room.

Upstairs?


Bond is right about setting or at least proposing times and dates. I got in touch with the other alumni from my school here in Sweden who also interview kids interested in going there, and got a quick positive response. But then nothing further happened and I realize I just have to throw out a time/date and see what the others say.

Bond - I am working on the passion thing - thanks for pushing me on that. It'd be good to have a reason to be alive, something beyond the kids.

Luke


Luke, you sent a message to the alumni and they responded positively. Um, it's your turn to act now, not theirs. Do you see why?

It's b/c they "accepted the invitation" but then you expected them to set the time and date? That's not how it works.

YOU do that. I suggest you propose two dates, invite input about which is better for the majority, but do NOT expect perfect attendance b/c it'd be very difficult to arrange that.

Get some or most of them to go, and be satisfied with that. After it goes well, other events will take place.

You're probably going to have to be in charge of arrangements for the first few meetings/events. That'll be good for you.

Luke, are you of the belief that your children are the "only" reason you have, "to be alive"? Why is that?

What message did you get from your childhood or marriage that suggested your worth was based only on meeting other's needs?

If there were a lifeboat with limited seating, a la "EE", what would you say in order to justify a seat for you?

Tell us why you belong in the lifeboat Luke. Why should YOU be allowed to live?

(HINT: the answer does not involve your children...) Dig deep...

(((( ))))



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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MLC - I sleep upstairs, in my son's room, next to the central master bedroom.

I don't understand your question: "What message did you get from your childhood or marriage that suggested your worth was based only on meeting other's needs? "

Why be alive? A couple of reasons, these being a mix of (lousy reason) selfishly wanting to enjoy the world, then more nobly - but not enough is happening - of doing something good for the world (and this may not include people directly, as in being a teacher or a doctor or caring for people's spirit, but could be something in nature or art or science instead). At the bottom though, I am not worth more than any other person - .

I never did find a good answer for why I should be allowed to live, which is frustrating.

Frankl talks about boredom, here:

"Unlike an animal, man is no longer told by drives and instincts what he must do. And in contrast to man in former times, he is no longer told by traditions and values what he should do. Now, knowing neither what he must do nor what he should do, he sometimes does not even know what he basically wishes to do. Instead, he wishes to do what other people do... or he does what other people wish him to do...

In this situation when people "loose ground" the old liberal social philosophies also fail. The bitter truth, says Frankl (UCM, p. 21), is that (italics by Frankl)

For too long we have been dreaming a dream from which we are now waking up: the dream that if we just improve the socioeconomic situation of people, everything will be okay, people will become happy. The truth is that as the struggle for survival has subsided, the question has emerged: survival for what? Ever more people today have the means to live, but no meaning to live for.


In another book (PAE, p.122) Frankl notes:

What threatens contemporary man is the alleged meaningfulness of his life, or, as I call it, the existential vacuum within him. And when does this vacuum open up, when does this so often latent vacuum become manifest? In the state of boredom.

Boredom is the main symptom of this illness. To see if society is sick one has just to observe how deeply boredom – in its many forms and manifestations – overflows peoplesí lives. Sometimes it becomes unbearable, and then its companions: addiction, depression and aggression, become the threat not only to the individual but also to society as a whole."

Anyway, that is a long way of saying that bored hedonism is not a good way to live, that I sometimes recognize it in myself, and that I'd like to change it, especially for the kids' sakes.

Luke


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I really like how you've made a point to write out a specific action. I hope you will continue forward with these action steps. (It's rather difficult to make a step without moving, isn't it?) smile


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"I was dreading the conversation, anticipating difficulties and rejection and screwing up somehow (hence the insane email idea) but then just took the plunge tonight, and am glad I did. "


apply this lesson to everything, including interaction with your w. the dread, the anticipated difficulties are in your head. of course it will not always be pleasant, but it wont be as bad as you think it will be.


"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
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